I love Wilson, but is Kaep actually better? I have been arguing with 9er fans, and they insist that Kaep is better. Would love to hear opinions on both, because while I know a ton about Wilson (still could learn more), I barely know anything about Kaep, so 49er fans are welcome.

Which one do you take for the whole ride, short term and long term? Personally, I would take Wilson, as I think he is so much more polished and ready for the NFL, safer with the ball, and learns from his mistakes insanely quickly, but some 9er fans say Kaep. I think Kaep's very overrated personally. Wilson just doesn't seem to have any weaknesses. Sure, his first few games he was total crap out there, but now it's like he's unstoppable. Kaep has that amazing running game to lean on, while Wilson's running game is on and off. Wilson has been forced to put the team on his back more, while with Kaep he definitely looks more like the "point guard" that Russell Wilson was supposed to be, in that he can't really take control of the team when that running game can't gain a yard and he has to pass all 3 downs.

Opinions?

Its a seahawk website...kinda obvious where this is going

A World Peace wrote:Its a seahawk website...kinda obvious where this is going

I'm really hoping some 9er fans chime in. I am actually kinda worried that Wilson isn't as good as Kaep. Also, I think eventually someone smarter than me (Scottemojo, Kearly, Volsung, Montana, ect.) will tell me how it is. Just a hope.

Wow... Just for shits and giggles, post this poll on one of the Niners boards....

Stupid poll. That's like asking if you'd rather have Ryan Leaf or Peyton Manning. Kaepernick will be out of the league in 5 years.

I would be more interested if you posted this on some neutral board for some actual results. I would suggest the Cardinals board, but no ones probably been on one for several weeks

Wilson, and it's not even close. The Kaepernick experiment won't last long IMO.

I've been thinking since Kaepernick got the nod that he's sort of Russell's "evil twin." Similar skillset just bigger, more tatted up, taller.

However, "good" will prevail in this one. I'm thinking Russell's work ethic makes him a legend while Kaepernick's career is filled with coulda shoulda woulda's, nagging injuries, and unfulfilled potential.

That's what I hope at least haha

hawksfan515 wrote:I love Wilson, but is Kaep actually better? I have been arguing with 9er fans, and they insist that Kaep is better. Would love to hear opinions on both, because while I know a ton about Wilson (still could learn more), I barely know anything about Kaep, so 49er fans are welcome.

Which one do you take for the whole ride, short term and long term? Personally, I would take Wilson, as I think he is so much more polished and ready for the NFL, safer with the ball, and learns from his mistakes insanely quickly, but some 9er fans say Kaep. I think Kaep's very overrated personally. Wilson just doesn't seem to have any weaknesses. Sure, his first few games he was total crap out there, but now it's like he's unstoppable. Kaep has that amazing running game to lean on, while Wilson's running game is on and off. Wilson has been forced to put the team on his back more, while with Kaep he definitely looks more like the "point guard" that Russell Wilson was supposed to be, in that he can't really take control of the team when that running game can't gain a yard and he has to pass all 3 downs.

Opinions?

The Niners fans can't even decide if they'd rather have Kaep or Smith....seriously doubt we still have the same Wilson v. Flynn drama going here.

Wilson, all day, every day. #HustleWilson

I think its an interesting question. I think if the question was strictly for one year, like this year, I might take Kaep. However, short and long-term, I'd take Wilson, which is who I chose. Personally, with his style, I think Kaeperneck will not last a long time, and Wilson will have the longer successful career.

There's no way to tell which one's better. Neither has played very many games. Wilson has had a great season. Kaep's had a great few games. Wilson was not 'total crap' the first few games, and Kaepernick hasn't been a 'point guard.' Who knows who will be better? Anyone trying to tell you they know for sure one's superior to the other is blowing smoke.

Given that, I'll take my boy Wilson.

jkitsune wrote:There's no way to tell which one's better. Neither has played very many games. Wilson has had a great season. Kaep's had a great few games. Wilson was not 'total crap' the first few games, and Kaepernick hasn't been a 'point guard.' Who knows who will be better? Anyone trying to tell you they know for sure one's superior to the other is blowing smoke.

Given that, I'll take my boy Wilson.

To me I see more of a point guard. Let the running game do the work, and distribute the ball to your playmakers on deep shots.

Waiting for a Kearly confirmation.....

megamanflx1 wrote:Wilson, all day, every day. #HustleWilson

[/discussion]

BlueThunder wrote:Wow... Just for shits and giggles, post this poll on one of the Niners boards....

Someone should go post this thread on Footballs Future. A whole lot of people are biased on short QB's, but it would be more of a neutral opinion.

hawksfan515 wrote:

jkitsune wrote:There's no way to tell which one's better. Neither has played very many games. Wilson has had a great season. Kaep's had a great few games. Wilson was not 'total crap' the first few games, and Kaepernick hasn't been a 'point guard.' Who knows who will be better? Anyone trying to tell you they know for sure one's superior to the other is blowing smoke.

Given that, I'll take my boy Wilson.

To me I see more of a point guard. Let the running game do the work, and distribute the ball to your playmakers on deep shots.

Waiting for a Kearly confirmation.....

"Getting the ball to your playmakers on deep shots" is what you hope for any talented QB to do. The "point guard QB" was supposed to not turn the ball over, stay calm under pressure, and get the ball out quick to guys on short and intermediate routes to give them room in open space to create the explosive plays. They weren't there to create the plays themselves.

Kaepernick still has a tendency to make rookie mistakes under pressure, but his accuracy, arm strength, mobility, and pocket presence all seem good. The only weakness I thought I saw in his first couple of games was a tendency to lock onto his first read and unload it - that hasn't seemed to be present the last couple of games.

That said, Mirer also had a good rookie season before collapsing. You just never know with such a small sample size.

How is this even a question? Kaepernick has been sitting and learning for a year-and-a-half. Wilson needed 6 weeks to start playing very well, and another few weeks to start playing at an very high level, which Kaepernick hasn't hit yet, and I'm not sure he will.

RolandDeschain wrote:How is this even a question? Kaepernick has been sitting and learning for a year-and-a-half. Wilson needed 6 weeks to start playing very well, and another few weeks to start playing at an very high level, which Kaepernick hasn't hit yet, and I'm not sure he will.

This post is very reassuring..... Thanks man.

And for Niners fan saying that he is so great after that 4 TD game, I still think it was incredibly fluky. Thought he was not that good after watching that game, just saying. I don't know if that's the Seattle homer in me seeing an average QB, but that's what I saw. I don't think he's better than RW.....

Alex Smith for sure.

Another thing I noticed is that Kaep needs to learn how to slide.. He's gonna end up like RG3 if he keeps exposing himself like that when he scrambles

Pstark3 wrote:Another thing I noticed is that Kaep needs to learn how to slide.. He's gonna end up like RG3 if he keeps exposing himself like that when he scrambles

I hope he learns the lesson RG3 just learned this coming Sunday. Wilson's got it down, 9 carries for 92 yards & 3 TDs, with ZERO HITS on those runs. I hope Kam puts an absolutely vicious hit on a Kaepernick run. Nothing that gives him a major injury, but a stinger keeping him out of a series or two would please me a lot.

Pstark3 wrote:Another thing I noticed is that Kaep needs to learn how to slide.. He's gonna end up like RG3 if he keeps exposing himself like that when he scrambles

I would not lose any sleep if he never learns how slide. Expose away.

RolandDeschain wrote:Wilson needed 6 weeks to start playing very well, and another few weeks to start playing at an very high level, which Kaepernick hasn't hit yet, and I'm not sure he will.

And how do you qualify this? In your opinion what makes Wilson's play "very high level" and Kaepernick's not?

The fact that over the last 7 games Wilson has the highest passer rating in the NFL?

Disp wrote:And how do you qualify this? In your opinion what makes Wilson's play very high level compared to Kaepernick?

5'10" rookie (5'10 & 5/8ths to be precise) with a sack rate nearly half that of Kaepernick, (Kaep has 2.8 sacks per game, Wilson has 1.8.) and a fumble rate FIVE TIMES LOWER than Kaepernick. (Wilson's .35 fumbles per game to Kaepernick's 1.8 fumbles per game.)

If you look at Wilson's numbers since the week Kaepernick started, it's even more lopsided overall. I'll remind again, Kaepernick studied for a year-and-a-half including watching & learning while the 49ers went to the NFCCG last year. Kaepernick should be leading Wilson by a good margin in virtually all categories if they are equal quarterbacks.

Disp, if you still don't think that Wilson's the better QB as of right now, (determining a QB's long-term success takes a bare minimum of two full years of play, IMO; if not three, so we can only go by what we've seen thus far from these two) can you explain why you think Kaepernick is better, or equal? Lay it out, be specific. I'm not trolling, it's an honest question.

So Wilson is playing at a very high level compared to Kaepernick because he gets sacked a little bit less and fumbles the snap less? Their yards per attempt, completion %, passing yards, rushing yards, and virtually every other statistic are almost identical over the 5 1/2 games Kaepernick has been in and Wilson's last 6.

But if that's the difference between high level play and not knowing if a player will ever be able to play on that same level then I'll take your word for it.

Turnover battle plays a huge role in wins/losses. Kaepernick's coughing up the rock significantly more. You don't think that matters, along with getting sacked a lot more? Seriously?

Kaepernick has 2 turnovers in 6 games (well I guess 3 technically with the backwards pass @ Rams) and there are far too many dynamics that go into a sack to even make it relevant in a discussion of young quarterbacks. Where are you even going with this?

If that's really your argument then I'm done here.

Disp wrote:Kaepernick has 2 turnovers in 6 games and there are far too many dynamics that go into a sack to even make it relevant in a discussion of young quarterbacks. Where are you even going with this?

Kaepernick has an amazing O-line so he should be sacked less. Plus that running game is best in the NFL, quite a reliable tool.

Disp wrote:Kaepernick has 2 turnovers in 6 games (well I guess 3 technically with the backwards pass @ Rams) and there are far too many dynamics that go into a sack to even make it relevant in a discussion of young quarterbacks. Where are you even going with this?

If that's really your argument then I'm done here.

I'm counting fumbles that the 49ers recovered. Which is why I said fumbles, not turnovers. If your argument is really that fumbles and sacks don't matter, then you're right, you should be done here; because that is patently ridiculous.

RolandDeschain wrote:I'm counting fumbles that the 49ers recovered. Which is why I said fumbles, not turnovers.

You can't be serious. This is what you wrote in just your last post haha.

RolandDeschain wrote:Turnover battle plays a huge role in wins/losses. Kaepernick's coughing up the rock significantly more.

Disp wrote:

RolandDeschain wrote:I'm counting fumbles that the 49ers recovered. Which is why I said fumbles, not turnovers.

You can't be serious. This is what you wrote in just your last post haha.

RolandDeschain wrote:Turnover battle plays a huge role in wins/losses. Kaepernick's coughing up the rock significantly more.

Its a legit point. When the ball is fumbled, anyone can recover it. Never really know where that mofo is gonna bounce

Example: Mark Sanchez's fumble against the Tits. It went straight to him, he dropped it, then his RB sliding by in pass pro kicked it, and bam, tits ball.

Look at my original statement, Disp. Here, I'll quote it for you:

RolandDeschain wrote:5'10" rookie (5'10 & 5/8ths to be precise) with a sack rate nearly half that of Kaepernick, (Kaep has 2.8 sacks per game, Wilson has 1.8.) and a fumble rate FIVE TIMES LOWER than Kaepernick. (Wilson's .35 fumbles per game to Kaepernick's 1.8 fumbles per game.)

If you look at Wilson's numbers since the week Kaepernick started, it's even more lopsided overall. I'll remind again, Kaepernick studied for a year-and-a-half including watching & learning while the 49ers went to the NFCCG last year. Kaepernick should be leading Wilson by a good margin in virtually all categories if they are equal quarterbacks.

Now, after you commented and I replied, I said the turnover battle plays a huge role in wins/losses. How many times you fumble doesn't play into the number of turnovers? What, you think if someone fumbles 9 times they're just as likely to turn it over once as if they fumble once in a game? Give me a break. You're the one that can't be serious. Wilson hasn't fumbled even once (fumbled, not turned over) since 11/11/12. Since Kaepernick was named the starter, he has fumbled 8 times but only turned it over once. That's a lucky percentage ratio, 8-1 fumble/turnover. Here, let's look at a few scrub QBs as a comparison; Tom Brady, (2 fumbles on the year, 0 turned over) Peyton Manning, (Also 2 fumbles on the year, but 2 turned over) and Aaron Rodgers. (4 fumbles, 3 turned over.) The average ratio for turning over fumbles for the top 3 QBs in the league is 8/5, or 62.5%. Unless your argument is that Kaepernick is a new magical QB in the league that can average 1 turnover per 8 fumbles for his career, you can't ignore number of fumbles, regardless of how lucky he has been in terms of the 49ers recovering them.

Come on, dude. Be real.

Just gonna go round and round if your argument is Kaepernick won't get better at taking handoffs in the rain and that's the crux of your argument for one playing at a very high level and the other not. I'm done though. They're both playing very well and will be good for a long time.

I didn't say he wouldn't get better. I asked you to lay out what makes Kaepernick the better or equal QB as of right now. Also, Wilson has 5 fumbles on the whole season, compared to Kaepernick's 9 in less than half as many games. Go ahead and pretend that's irrelevant, though. Even take away the FOUR night before last in Foxboro, and he's at 5 on the year, same as Wilson; except in 5.1 games as compared to Wilson's 14.

You're just being delusional, man.

Wilson. I can spell Wilson.

I LOVE LAMP

Wilson doesn't need to learn anything. He's actually studying film right now, and he just learned what you wanted him to learn.

Uhh Disp...what are you looking at when you are saying they have near identical stats over their last six games? The only thing identical is their yardage and sacks, Wilson beats Kaep in almost single other category as a QB and he has come out early in the last two games.

TDS: Wilson: 11 Kaep: 7
Avg QB rating: Wilson: 113.5 Kaep: 100
Turnovers: Wilson: 1 INT 3 fumbles Kaep: 2 INT 8 fumbles
Avg comp %: Kaep 66.4 Wilson 64.1

Kaep has been good since he's taken over but Wilson has been even better. I mentioned this in another thread, the Niners defense is still what is carrying the team. Wilson is now carrying the Seahawks.

Also the Seahawks have played the #20, #8, #17, #5, #11, and #24 ranked defenses. While the Niners have played #9 twice, #5, #32, #17, and #27 ranked defenses. Take the average ranking of the defenses faced and the Seahawks have played the 14.1 ranked defense while the Niners have played the 16.5 ranked defense.

So looking at strictly from a performance point of view, Wilson is superior to Kaep. He has better stats, he has carried the team, and he has played on average better defenses. Please do explain how Kaep is still better than Wilson.

I forgot which team has put up 50 points a game 3 games in a row?

Ooops, I think I just gave away the future

I don't really care. We've got our guy, and that's all that matters to us.

515 has a brilliant young mind- I think some of you missed his true intentions with this thread.

We now know there are at least five 49ers trolls/lurkers on .net right now. Really only 5? It seems like more.

Good work 515. Now I can feel assured that .net is not being over trolled by 49ers fans this week.

And on the off chance this poll was serious, this is like asking who's better between Josh Freeman and Aaron Rodgers. Kaepernick is my 'boy, but I'm pretty sure Harbaugh could turn Mark Sanchez into a 100 passer rating QB at this point.

Had to go with CK here. He's taller, smarter (37 vs. 28 on the wonderlic). Both are fast, both have great arms. RW has a better touch on his passes IMO. One thing I noticed with CK (and RW, for that matter) right off the bat is, unlike Alex Smith, he can throw his receivers open.

I suspect CK's 'fumbling the snap' problem was more due to weather in NE and was corrected in the second half, so I'd be skeptical of statistical analysis that points to the number of fumbles.

Right now RW runs the offense better than CK does, and that could make all the difference in the upcoming game.

CK has a slight edge in quality of receiving targets, both teams have decent WR's, but the 49ers have Vernon Davis (see how I didn't go with initials there?).

Hopefully this argument will go back and forth for years to come.

I don't think Kaepernick has the escapability that DangeRuss has.

All things being equal, Kap can't seem to elude the oustretched arms of a D-lineman like my boy Russ can.

49fansince70 wrote:Had to go with CK here. He's taller, smarter (37 vs. 28 on the wonderlic). Both are fast, both have great arms. RW has a better touch on his passes IMO. One thing I noticed with CK (and RW, for that matter) right off the bat is, unlike Alex Smith, he can throw his receivers open.

I suspect CK's 'fumbling the snap' problem was more due to weather in NE and was corrected in the second half, so I'd be skeptical of statistical analysis that points to the number of fumbles.

Right now RW runs the offense better than CK does, and that could make all the difference in the upcoming game.

CK has a slight edge in quality of receiving targets, both teams have decent WR's, but the 49ers have Vernon Davis (see how I didn't go with initials there?).

Hopefully this argument will go back and forth for years to come.

I don't put much stock in the Wonderlic unless a guy has a really terrible score. Marino scored in the teens and that didn't exactly hurt him.

Russell has shown he's more than capable of football smarts. He learned Wisconsin's offense in a matter of weeks because he's a ridiculously hard worker.

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA. Are you trying to tell me that 9er fans think Kap is better, and Hawks fans think Wilson is better?

AbsolutNET wrote:WHOA, WHOA, WHOA. Are you trying to tell me that 9er fans think Kap is better, and Hawks fans think Wilson is better?

Some Seahawks "fans" seem to think Kaepernick is better. WHIP OUT THE BAN STICK!

Let's see...Wilson

or

Kap

Wilson

or

Kap

Wilson is so much better it isn't even close.

Largent80 wrote:Wilson is so much better it isn't even close.

Please explain why it "isn't even close".

I'm a Niner fan so it's obvious which way I'm leaning, but lets try to be real here for a sec. I want to hear exactly WHY Wilson is better. I'm attempting to take the homer cap off here so lets just do a little comparison.

Stats?

Wilson:
62.9 Comp %, 7.64 per att, 2697 yards, 21 TDs, 9 INTs, 95.5 QB Rating, 402 yards, 5.2 average, 3 TDs

Kaep:
65.6 Comp %, 8.37 per att, 1289 yards, 7 TDs, 2 INTs, 101.3 Rating, 379 yards rushing, 7.2 average, 5 TDs

Wilson wins on bigger passing yards and TDs, but not in yards per att, or QB rating. Then again, that's not entirely fair seeing as Kaep has only started 5 games.



Lets just look at the first 5 games Kaep has started compared to Wilsons first 5 starts....

Wilson:
63.2 Comp %, 6.52 per att, 815 yards, 5 TDs, 6 INTs, 75.25 Rating, 92 rushing yards, 3.4 average, 0 TDs

Kaep:
66.4 Comp %, 8.26 per att, 1083 yards, 7 TDs, 2 INTs, 104.39 QB Rating, 202 rushing yards, 6.31 average, 2 TDs


Hrmm. I don't see Wilson as so good that it "isn't even close". In fact, it's pretty easy to use the exact opposite argument. I can hear some of you already saying stuff like "Kaep isn't a rookie", or "we are comparing them as the players they are NOW" or a host of other stuff....but lets be fair. Kaep may not be a rookie, but he didn't play at all last year and only in run packages early on this year. Still, lets add Wilsons LAST 5 games.

64.7 Comp %, 8.89 per att, 1053 yards, 8 TDs, 1 INT, 111.95 Rating, 247 yards, 7.48 average, 3 TDs.

Wow. Nice. Now we have a contest. ;-) I'm not sure if comparing Kaeps FIRST 5 starts to Wilsons LAST 5 starts is really afair comparison, but thats what I had to do to even make this a contest.

OK...so lets look at the competition then....

Niners:
Bears on Monday Night (Yes, they had Jason Campbell at QB, but he doesn't play defense. That game was billed as a battle of the defenses and Kaep DESTROYED the Bears early and often).
Saints in NO: Say what you want about the Saints D, but that is a HARD place to play. He was unrattled and played very well)
Rams in St. Louis (yup...his worst game. Played like a young QB. Still...the Rams are good on D as I'm sure you Seattle fans know)
Miami (Played well against a good D while under constant pressure. His 50 yard TD run sealed the game)
NE IN NE (most impressive game so far, Say what you want about the 12th man in Seattle, but Foxborough in December is the hardest place to win in the NFL)

Seahawks:
Jets (yeah...not good. Niners beat them 34-0)
Miami (tough D as I said before...but Seahawks lost)
Chicago (Good Win. Impressive...especially with Cutler back and in Chicago)
Arizona and Buffalo (um...yeah. Put up lots of points, but Niners beat those same 2 teams 69-6 back when those teams actually had something to play for. Hell the Niners became the first team in NFL history to both pass AND rush for 300 against the Bills)


Finally...athletic ability. This one is tough to judge. Wilson is 5'11", 206, very mobile, and has a good arm. Kaep is 6'4 or 6'5", 230+, and is also very mobile....and has a CANNON of an arm.


So, in conclusion....the argument can be made that either guy is "better". I, of course would take Kaep, but suggesting it "isn't even close" is simply lunacy.