Wilson vs. Kaep straight up.... who do you take?

Wilson or Kaepernick?

  • Wilson

    Votes: 180 91.8%
  • Kaepernick

    Votes: 16 8.2%

  • Total voters
    196

Greenhell

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Pstark3":21zjgel6 said:
Another thing I noticed is that Kaep needs to learn how to slide.. He's gonna end up like RG3 if he keeps exposing himself like that when he scrambles

I would not lose any sleep if he never learns how slide. Expose away.
 

Disp

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RolandDeschain":2vccnq9t said:
Wilson needed 6 weeks to start playing very well, and another few weeks to start playing at an very high level, which Kaepernick hasn't hit yet, and I'm not sure he will.

And how do you qualify this? In your opinion what makes Wilson's play "very high level" and Kaepernick's not?
 

RolandDeschain

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Disp":2fxgkk2l said:
And how do you qualify this? In your opinion what makes Wilson's play very high level compared to Kaepernick?

5'10" rookie (5'10 & 5/8ths to be precise) with a sack rate nearly half that of Kaepernick, (Kaep has 2.8 sacks per game, Wilson has 1.8.) and a fumble rate FIVE TIMES LOWER than Kaepernick. (Wilson's .35 fumbles per game to Kaepernick's 1.8 fumbles per game.)

If you look at Wilson's numbers since the week Kaepernick started, it's even more lopsided overall. I'll remind again, Kaepernick studied for a year-and-a-half including watching & learning while the 49ers went to the NFCCG last year. Kaepernick should be leading Wilson by a good margin in virtually all categories if they are equal quarterbacks.
 

RolandDeschain

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Disp, if you still don't think that Wilson's the better QB as of right now, (determining a QB's long-term success takes a bare minimum of two full years of play, IMO; if not three, so we can only go by what we've seen thus far from these two) can you explain why you think Kaepernick is better, or equal? Lay it out, be specific. I'm not trolling, it's an honest question.
 

Disp

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So Wilson is playing at a very high level compared to Kaepernick because he gets sacked a little bit less and fumbles the snap less? Their yards per attempt, completion %, passing yards, rushing yards, and virtually every other statistic are almost identical over the 5 1/2 games Kaepernick has been in and Wilson's last 6.

But if that's the difference between high level play and not knowing if a player will ever be able to play on that same level then I'll take your word for it.
 

RolandDeschain

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Turnover battle plays a huge role in wins/losses. Kaepernick's coughing up the rock significantly more. You don't think that matters, along with getting sacked a lot more? Seriously?
 

Disp

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Kaepernick has 2 turnovers in 6 games (well I guess 3 technically with the backwards pass @ Rams) and there are far too many dynamics that go into a sack to even make it relevant in a discussion of young quarterbacks. Where are you even going with this?

If that's really your argument then I'm done here.
 
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hawksfan515

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Disp":2gazxi8h said:
Kaepernick has 2 turnovers in 6 games and there are far too many dynamics that go into a sack to even make it relevant in a discussion of young quarterbacks. Where are you even going with this?

Kaepernick has an amazing O-line so he should be sacked less. Plus that running game is best in the NFL, quite a reliable tool.
 

RolandDeschain

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Disp":3dsl2z61 said:
Kaepernick has 2 turnovers in 6 games (well I guess 3 technically with the backwards pass @ Rams) and there are far too many dynamics that go into a sack to even make it relevant in a discussion of young quarterbacks. Where are you even going with this?

If that's really your argument then I'm done here.

I'm counting fumbles that the 49ers recovered. Which is why I said fumbles, not turnovers. If your argument is really that fumbles and sacks don't matter, then you're right, you should be done here; because that is patently ridiculous.
 

Disp

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RolandDeschain":2cqq7cpu said:
I'm counting fumbles that the 49ers recovered. Which is why I said fumbles, not turnovers.

You can't be serious. This is what you wrote in just your last post haha.

RolandDeschain":2cqq7cpu said:
Turnover battle plays a huge role in wins/losses. Kaepernick's coughing up the rock significantly more.
 
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hawksfan515

hawksfan515

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Disp":nwmm6csy said:
RolandDeschain":nwmm6csy said:
I'm counting fumbles that the 49ers recovered. Which is why I said fumbles, not turnovers.

You can't be serious. This is what you wrote in just your last post haha.

RolandDeschain":nwmm6csy said:
Turnover battle plays a huge role in wins/losses. Kaepernick's coughing up the rock significantly more.


Its a legit point. When the ball is fumbled, anyone can recover it. Never really know where that mofo is gonna bounce

Example: Mark Sanchez's fumble against the Tits. It went straight to him, he dropped it, then his RB sliding by in pass pro kicked it, and bam, tits ball.
 

RolandDeschain

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Look at my original statement, Disp. Here, I'll quote it for you:

RolandDeschain":3jcc9n43 said:
5'10" rookie (5'10 & 5/8ths to be precise) with a sack rate nearly half that of Kaepernick, (Kaep has 2.8 sacks per game, Wilson has 1.8.) and a fumble rate FIVE TIMES LOWER than Kaepernick. (Wilson's .35 fumbles per game to Kaepernick's 1.8 fumbles per game.)

If you look at Wilson's numbers since the week Kaepernick started, it's even more lopsided overall. I'll remind again, Kaepernick studied for a year-and-a-half including watching & learning while the 49ers went to the NFCCG last year. Kaepernick should be leading Wilson by a good margin in virtually all categories if they are equal quarterbacks.

Now, after you commented and I replied, I said the turnover battle plays a huge role in wins/losses. How many times you fumble doesn't play into the number of turnovers? What, you think if someone fumbles 9 times they're just as likely to turn it over once as if they fumble once in a game? Give me a break. You're the one that can't be serious. Wilson hasn't fumbled even once (fumbled, not turned over) since 11/11/12. Since Kaepernick was named the starter, he has fumbled 8 times but only turned it over once. That's a lucky percentage ratio, 8-1 fumble/turnover. Here, let's look at a few scrub QBs as a comparison; Tom Brady, (2 fumbles on the year, 0 turned over) Peyton Manning, (Also 2 fumbles on the year, but 2 turned over) and Aaron Rodgers. (4 fumbles, 3 turned over.) The average ratio for turning over fumbles for the top 3 QBs in the league is 8/5, or 62.5%. Unless your argument is that Kaepernick is a new magical QB in the league that can average 1 turnover per 8 fumbles for his career, you can't ignore number of fumbles, regardless of how lucky he has been in terms of the 49ers recovering them.

Come on, dude. Be real.
 

Disp

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Just gonna go round and round if your argument is Kaepernick won't get better at taking handoffs in the rain and that's the crux of your argument for one playing at a very high level and the other not. I'm done though. They're both playing very well and will be good for a long time.
 

RolandDeschain

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I didn't say he wouldn't get better. I asked you to lay out what makes Kaepernick the better or equal QB as of right now. Also, Wilson has 5 fumbles on the whole season, compared to Kaepernick's 9 in less than half as many games. Go ahead and pretend that's irrelevant, though. Even take away the FOUR night before last in Foxboro, and he's at 5 on the year, same as Wilson; except in 5.1 games as compared to Wilson's 14.

You're just being delusional, man.
 

MrCarey

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Wilson doesn't need to learn anything. He's actually studying film right now, and he just learned what you wanted him to learn.
 

amill87

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Uhh Disp...what are you looking at when you are saying they have near identical stats over their last six games? The only thing identical is their yardage and sacks, Wilson beats Kaep in almost single other category as a QB and he has come out early in the last two games.

TDS: Wilson: 11 Kaep: 7
Avg QB rating: Wilson: 113.5 Kaep: 100
Turnovers: Wilson: 1 INT 3 fumbles Kaep: 2 INT 8 fumbles
Avg comp %: Kaep 66.4 Wilson 64.1

Kaep has been good since he's taken over but Wilson has been even better. I mentioned this in another thread, the Niners defense is still what is carrying the team. Wilson is now carrying the Seahawks.

Also the Seahawks have played the #20, #8, #17, #5, #11, and #24 ranked defenses. While the Niners have played #9 twice, #5, #32, #17, and #27 ranked defenses. Take the average ranking of the defenses faced and the Seahawks have played the 14.1 ranked defense while the Niners have played the 16.5 ranked defense.

So looking at strictly from a performance point of view, Wilson is superior to Kaep. He has better stats, he has carried the team, and he has played on average better defenses. Please do explain how Kaep is still better than Wilson.
 

SonicHawk

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I forgot which team has put up 50 points a game 3 games in a row?

Ooops, I think I just gave away the future :p
 
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