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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls  Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:05 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm
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kidhawk wrote:
I see you refuse to answer how they are different. Nice way to attempt to deflect. You are good at that aren't you.
How are they different? How is unwarranted wire-tapping different from going through security at an airport? Do I really have to answer such an absurd question?
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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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SmokinHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:07 pm |
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am
Posts: 4748
Location: Not Umatilla, Oregon
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BlueTalon wrote: SonicHawk wrote: So... kidhawk, what weapons do you think we shouldn't have access to?
The second amendment says nothing about nuclear weapons. Can we possess those as citizens? '50 caliber machine guns? Napalms? Automatic pistols? Grenade launchers? Nuclear weapons do not serve a legitimate militia-related use. In the context of the militia clause, the intent was for a single person to become an immediate asset in a situation requiring a collective armed response. WMDs are crew-served, and therefore above your paygrade as a volunteer -- and any that are not crew-served are as much of a hazard to the people you are ostensibly trying to protect in said situation. It may surprise you to learn that as a citizen, you may indeed own a .50 caliber machine gun, an automatic pistol, or a grenade launcher. The are classified as Class III weapons according to the BATF. If you want to own one, you need a Class III license. If you apply for one, expect a very thorough background check (and expect to pay for it -- background checks aren't cheap). You are sort of correct here. The Class III armorer's license is for businesses that make their money selling machine guns to military and law enforcement. In about 40 states, civilians CAN own machine guns manufactured before the amendment to the national firearms act took effect in 1986. In order to obtain an NFA firearm, one must first find one for sale (they are collectible and extremely expensive), then either form a trust or get the signature of a local law enforcement official on a BATFE document called "Form 4". After that, fingerprints are taken, an exhaustive background check performed, and upon passing, the firearm can be legally transferred from the dealer to the individual. There is no license, but instead, it is a tax of $200 every time the firearm changes hands, including dealer-to-dealer transactions.
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Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro
He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
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SmokinHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:08 pm |
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am
Posts: 4748
Location: Not Umatilla, Oregon
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SonicHawk wrote: SmokinHawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: Hard to imagine 100M Americans doing anything together... especially if it includes "rising up" At your age, I bet it's hard to imagine a lot of things that don't come from comic books or television crime dramas. At my age? How old do you think I am anyways? Young. That much is obvious.
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Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro
He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
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kidhawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:14 pm |
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 pm
Posts: 10271
Location: Anchorage, AK
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SonicHawk wrote: kidhawk wrote:
I see you refuse to answer how they are different. Nice way to attempt to deflect. You are good at that aren't you.
How are they different? How is unwarranted wire-tapping different from going through security at an airport? Do I really have to answer such an absurd question? In the context given the question is not absurd. The way you are attempting to make it sound though it may be thought of as such. Both of them are invasions of privacy. Both of them are held to either needing warrants or reasonable cause when it comes to criminal cases. Both are perfectly legal under the patriot act. I fail to understand why you believe that one form of search is atrocious while the other is perfectly ok. Both are there to seek out and stop terrorists and make our lives safer (the reason you have for being FOR the TSA). With all that context, explain how the wiretaps are so atrocious as to gain your ire while the TSA searches are not.
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:20 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm
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SmokinHawk wrote: Young. That much is obvious. Old enough to know you've said exactly nothing worthwhile in this thread.
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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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Jiggy
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:23 pm |
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Should the sale of jet fuel, fertilizer and the rental of moving trucks be controlled too?
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Member formally known as AC59
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:26 pm |
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kidhawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: kidhawk wrote:
I see you refuse to answer how they are different. Nice way to attempt to deflect. You are good at that aren't you.
How are they different? How is unwarranted wire-tapping different from going through security at an airport? Do I really have to answer such an absurd question? In the context given the question is not absurd. The way you are attempting to make it sound though it may be thought of as such. Both of them are invasions of privacy. Both of them are held to either needing warrants or reasonable cause when it comes to criminal cases. Both are perfectly legal under the patriot act. I fail to understand why you believe that one form of search is atrocious while the other is perfectly ok. Both are there to seek out and stop terrorists and make our lives safer (the reason you have for being FOR the TSA). With all that context, explain how the wiretaps are so atrocious as to gain your ire while the TSA searches are not. Fair enough. The point of wire tapping is to be secretive. To hide and hope you slip up. To actively do this without a warrant (and therefore, just cause) I believe is wrong. Airport security isn't secretive. You are well aware that it exists, will be there and will be looking for specific things. Without the airport security you have an easy target for a lot of damage by not just terrorists, but any idiot who has lost their mind.
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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:32 pm |
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Jiggy wrote: Should the sale of jet fuel, fertilizer and the rental of moving trucks be controlled too? As soon as the primary functions of jet fuel, fertilizer and renting moving trucks individually is to kill something.
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Jiggy
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:44 pm |
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SonicHawk wrote: Jiggy wrote: Should the sale of jet fuel, fertilizer and the rental of moving trucks be controlled too? As soon as the primary functions of jet fuel, fertilizer and renting moving trucks individually is to kill something. So as long as those with no access to guns anymore use the Timothy McVeigh method of mass murder, your fine with it? Sounds like you're anti-gun. Not pro-safety.
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12evanf
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:00 pm |
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Jiggy wrote: SonicHawk wrote: Jiggy wrote: Should the sale of jet fuel, fertilizer and the rental of moving trucks be controlled too? As soon as the primary functions of jet fuel, fertilizer and renting moving trucks individually is to kill something. So as long as those with no access to guns anymore use the Timothy McVeigh method of mass murder, your fine with it? Sounds like you're anti-gun. Not pro-safety. Straw man argument. Any tool for murder can certainly have its own discussion. Currently we are discussing guns, any other instruments - bombs, knives, box cutters, baseball bats - can each have their own discussions when they are consistently being used in senseless mass murders, but again, right now we are talking about guns.
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:08 pm |
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Jiggy wrote: SonicHawk wrote: Jiggy wrote: Should the sale of jet fuel, fertilizer and the rental of moving trucks be controlled too? As soon as the primary functions of jet fuel, fertilizer and renting moving trucks individually is to kill something. So as long as those with no access to guns anymore use the Timothy McVeigh method of mass murder, your fine with it? Sounds like you're anti-gun. Not pro-safety. Lol. Yeah, I'm totally cool with what McVeigh did. So that must mean you are totally for the school shooting then?
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SmokinHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:32 pm |
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am
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Location: Not Umatilla, Oregon
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SonicHawk wrote: SmokinHawk wrote: Young. That much is obvious. Old enough to know you've said exactly nothing worthwhile in this thread. Yeah? So what have you said that is supposed to be particularly illuminating? All I read was a bunch of half-cocked conjecture without facts or history to support it. Such gems include statements like "guns are unfucking necessary", despite hundreds of years of history proving otherwise. Maybe when your balls drop you will be ready to engage in this discussion from a standpoint of experience rather than conjecture fueled by teen angst. In other words, you don't know what you're talking about, sonny, so you should let the grownups handle it.
_________________
Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro
He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:11 pm |
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SmokinHawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: SmokinHawk wrote: Young. That much is obvious. Old enough to know you've said exactly nothing worthwhile in this thread. Yeah? So what have you said that is supposed to be particularly illuminating? All I read was a bunch of half-cocked conjecture without facts or history to support it. Such gems include statements like "guns are unfucking necessary", despite hundreds of years of history proving otherwise. Maybe when your balls drop you will be ready to engage in this discussion from a standpoint of experience rather than conjecture fueled by teen angst. In other words, you don't know what you're talking about, sonny, so you should let the grownups handle it. Ha, you're a fucking idiot. Congratulations on existing longer, that makes you smarter. I'm 30 fucking years old, I don't need someone to try to act like they have experience when they are nobody on a Seahawks forum.
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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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SmokinHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:17 pm |
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am
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Location: Not Umatilla, Oregon
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SonicHawk wrote: Ha, you're a fucking idiot. Congratulations on existing longer, that makes you smarter.
I'm 30 fucking years old, I don't need someone to try to act like they have experience when they are nobody on a Seahawks forum. You're also a terrible liar. Every one of your posts smacks of unbridled teen angst.
_________________
Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro
He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
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BlueTalon
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:22 pm |
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:06 am
Posts: 6804
Location: Eastern Washington
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SmokinHawk wrote: BlueTalon wrote: SonicHawk wrote: So... kidhawk, what weapons do you think we shouldn't have access to?
The second amendment says nothing about nuclear weapons. Can we possess those as citizens? '50 caliber machine guns? Napalms? Automatic pistols? Grenade launchers? Nuclear weapons do not serve a legitimate militia-related use. In the context of the militia clause, the intent was for a single person to become an immediate asset in a situation requiring a collective armed response. WMDs are crew-served, and therefore above your paygrade as a volunteer -- and any that are not crew-served are as much of a hazard to the people you are ostensibly trying to protect in said situation. It may surprise you to learn that as a citizen, you may indeed own a .50 caliber machine gun, an automatic pistol, or a grenade launcher. The are classified as Class III weapons according to the BATF. If you want to own one, you need a Class III license. If you apply for one, expect a very thorough background check (and expect to pay for it -- background checks aren't cheap). You are sort of correct here. The Class III armorer's license is for businesses that make their money selling machine guns to military and law enforcement. In about 40 states, civilians CAN own machine guns manufactured before the amendment to the national firearms act took effect in 1986. In order to obtain an NFA firearm, one must first find one for sale (they are collectible and extremely expensive), then either form a trust or get the signature of a local law enforcement official on a BATFE document called "Form 4". After that, fingerprints are taken, an exhaustive background check performed, and upon passing, the firearm can be legally transferred from the dealer to the individual. There is no license, but instead, it is a tax of $200 every time the firearm changes hands, including dealer-to-dealer transactions. Learn a new thing every day! I don't own any Class III weapons, so I have never gone through the process. (Don't Class III weapons have an annual tax as well? Or am I remembering that wrong?) The answer to SonicHawk's question remains affirmative, we as citizens can own Class III weapons, assuming we live in a state where they haven't been banned. I'd strongly recommend that he avoid trying to acquire nukes or napalm, though.
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Sports Hernia
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:44 pm |
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SmokinHawk wrote: Sports Hernia wrote: According to you guys Obama should have already taken away your guns by now, what happened?
There is this little thing called the 2nd amendment of the United States constitution, your guns are safe, though you may just have to put down the NRA/GOA propaganda to realize it. If you think people's guns are "safe" after this incident, you are must be smoking some really good crack. Obama doesn't have a reelection to worry about now. He, along with loud mouthed Democrats like Diane Feinstein are going to take every step they can to put a permanent version of the Brady Bill into effect. Keep drinking the NRA koolaid and keep sending them and the GOA your donations, they thrive on the paranoid and gullible types like you!
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Hugh Millen = CBJ minus the cool beard
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Sports Hernia
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:51 pm |
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SmokinHawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: Why the fuck do we need a well armed militia? See: The Revolutionary War. You know, that peasant army that rose up and drove the Brits out of our country, paving the way for our independence? You see, our forefathers had this crazy idea that if you want people to stop fucking you over, you might need to shoot at them a few times first. Are you so naive as to think that this would never again become necessary? Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and a veritable slough of South American and African dictators have long been fans of tight restrictions on the right to bear arms. You left out George W Bush.... ask the citizens of New Orleans during Katrina who had their guns seized by Dubya's private army, Blackwater. But that was OK because he was your guy right?
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Hugh Millen = CBJ minus the cool beard
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SmokinHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:00 am |
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Location: Not Umatilla, Oregon
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Sports Hernia wrote: SmokinHawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: Why the fuck do we need a well armed militia? See: The Revolutionary War. You know, that peasant army that rose up and drove the Brits out of our country, paving the way for our independence? You see, our forefathers had this crazy idea that if you want people to stop fucking you over, you might need to shoot at them a few times first. Are you so naive as to think that this would never again become necessary? Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and a veritable slough of South American and African dictators have long been fans of tight restrictions on the right to bear arms. You left out George W Bush.... ask the citizens of New Orleans during Katrina who had their guns seized by Dubya's private army, Blackwater. But that was OK because he was your guy right? My guy? Really? Are you really that dense? I'm the same person who started the poll "Is George Bush a war criminal" a few years back, and voted "yes". I am about the last person on earth who would support him. That said, perhaps you should check your facts before misdirecting your vitriol as the confiscation occurred at the orders of the mayor and police superintendent of New Orleans, not George Bush, but don't let inconvenient things like facts get in the way of a perfectly good (though baseless) anti-conservative rant. Ironically, George Bush did more to promote the 2nd Amendment in his two terms than any President ever has. Much as I hate the man, that's just a cold, hard, fact.
_________________
Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro
He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
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Jiggy
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:07 am |
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SmokinHawk wrote: Sports Hernia wrote: You left out George W Bush.... ask the citizens of New Orleans during Katrina who had their guns seized by Dubya's private army, Blackwater. But that was OK because he was your guy right? My guy? Really? Are you really that dense? I'm the same person who started the poll "Is George Bush a war criminal" a few years back, and voted "yes". I am about the last person on earth who would support him. That said, perhaps you should check your facts before misdirecting your vitriol as the confiscation occurred at the orders of the mayor and police superintendent of New Orleans, not George Bush, but don't let inconvenient things like facts get in the way of a perfectly good (though baseless) anti-conservative rant. Ironically, George Bush did more to promote the 2nd Amendment in his two terms than any President ever has. Much as I hate the man, that's just a cold, hard, fact. It's the canned left wing response. 
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Member formally known as AC59
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seahawksfeverfan
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:44 am |
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lol thanks great reads.. You guys are bad ass, heck I thought I was bad you guys know how to lay the smack down even though some of you are so full of shit your eyes are brown.. Keep it up I will check in later to read some more of your comments. God bless America.
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