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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls  Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:20 am |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm
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I'm against wire tapping and all those things that used to need a judge's approval.
I'm not against increased security at our airports.
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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:23 am |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm
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kidhawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: I get it, there's a document written 220 years ago that you feel is the work of God. Just because it's old, doesn't make it right. I've seen God mentioned twice in gun control discussions today and BOTH times it was you. Shut the fuck up about God. Nobody here is saying God wrote the constitution, but we are saying that we aren't going to just roll over and give up the rights we have had for generations. Rights which A lot of Americans have fought and died to defend. You can WANT to abolish guns and the 2nd amendment all you wish, but it won't happen. The only way you'll live in a society with that kind of gun control is to move to another country. I'll fucking use God when I want, because that's what you are treating the fucking second amendment like (well, except when it comes to weapons that scare you).
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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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kidhawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:24 am |
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 pm
Posts: 10265
Location: Anchorage, AK
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SonicHawk wrote: I'm against wire tapping and all those things that used to need a judge's approval.
I'm not against increased security at our airports. Used to need a reason to search people. Now you just have to fly. It's not all that different. They are taking away everyone's right to travel unfettered to appease people like yourself. With wiretaps, they are just listening in on communications to stop terrorists. No more intrusive than a physical search of your person I'd say, but yet you are ok with one, but not the other. Well guess what? Take away the 2nd amendment and watch the rest wither away before your very eyes
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kidhawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:27 am |
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 pm
Posts: 10265
Location: Anchorage, AK
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SonicHawk wrote: kidhawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: I get it, there's a document written 220 years ago that you feel is the work of God. Just because it's old, doesn't make it right. I've seen God mentioned twice in gun control discussions today and BOTH times it was you. Shut the fuck up about God. Nobody here is saying God wrote the constitution, but we are saying that we aren't going to just roll over and give up the rights we have had for generations. Rights which A lot of Americans have fought and died to defend. You can WANT to abolish guns and the 2nd amendment all you wish, but it won't happen. The only way you'll live in a society with that kind of gun control is to move to another country. I'll fucking use God when I want, because that's what you are treating the fucking second amendment like (well, except when it comes to weapons that scare you). That's Bullshit, I treat the second amendment for what it is, an integral part of our rights as American citizens. As for the "weapons that scare" you bullshit, I never said anything of the kind. I didn't say every banned weapon on the books should be banned, I just said I'm ok with it. In other words it's done I can live with it let's move on. I have also stated that safety measures I have no problem with. I will ALWAYS have a problem with anyone who wants to take away one of our most fundamental rights because a few crazy people go off.
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:27 am |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm
Posts: 2365
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kidhawk wrote:
Take away the 2nd amendment and watch the rest wither away before your very eyes
Ha, now I officially know that you're just paranoid. Stopping the next Stalin won't be because we have guns, it will be because we didn't ignore it happening. If you think airport security is the steps to the next Stalin, then I can't help you.
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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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kidhawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:31 am |
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 pm
Posts: 10265
Location: Anchorage, AK
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SonicHawk wrote: kidhawk wrote:
Take away the 2nd amendment and watch the rest wither away before your very eyes
Ha, now I officially know that you're just paranoid. Stopping the next Stalin won't be because we have guns, it will be because we didn't ignore it happening. If you think airport security is the steps to the next Stalin, then I can't help you. You say you support the added safety of Airport security, but you don't like the added safety of wiretaps, yet you say I'm being paranoid? You yourself have complained about the government intrusions, yet you think because I want to keep a right I was born with, I'm paranoid about government overstepping their bounds? You really are THAT stupid aren't you? you can't be seen as reasonable when you complain about the government overstepping their bounds in one area while saying you trust the government won't overstep their bounds any other time. They have and they will continue to do this as long as people like you let them
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:33 am |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm
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kidhawk wrote:
That's Bullshit, I treat the second amendment for what it is, an integral part of our rights as American citizens. As for the "weapons that scare" you bullshit, I never said anything of the kind. I didn't say every banned weapon on the books should be banned, I just said I'm ok with it. In other words it's done I can live with it let's move on. I have also stated that safety measures I have no problem with. I will ALWAYS have a problem with anyone who wants to take away one of our most fundamental rights because a few crazy people go off.
Your safety measures don't do shit. Do you think the problem with these school shootings it that they didn't have enough training or safety understanding? Do you think it's hard to get a gun? Especially with a 20 year old kid with no priors or anything? What you think is a fundamental right I think was a necessity in a bygone era that has no place in our modern society.
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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:34 am |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm
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kidhawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: kidhawk wrote:
Take away the 2nd amendment and watch the rest wither away before your very eyes
Ha, now I officially know that you're just paranoid. Stopping the next Stalin won't be because we have guns, it will be because we didn't ignore it happening. If you think airport security is the steps to the next Stalin, then I can't help you. You say you support the added safety of Airport security, but you don't like the added safety of wiretaps, yet you say I'm being paranoid? You yourself have complained about the government intrusions, yet you think because I want to keep a right I was born with, I'm paranoid about government overstepping their bounds? You really are THAT stupid aren't you? you can't be seen as reasonable when you complain about the government overstepping their bounds in one area while saying you trust the government won't overstep their bounds any other time. They have and they will continue to do this as long as people like you let them I agree with people not taking weapons onto a plane and enforcing that and somehow that's the same as warrant-less wiretapping?
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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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SmokinHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:36 am |
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am
Posts: 4747
Location: Not Umatilla, Oregon
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kidhawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: I get it, there's a document written 220 years ago that you feel is the work of God. Just because it's old, doesn't make it right. I've seen God mentioned twice in gun control discussions today and BOTH times it was you. Shut the fuck up about God. Nobody here is saying God wrote the constitution, but we are saying that we aren't going to just roll over and give up the rights we have had for generations. Rights which A lot of Americans have fought and died to defend. You can WANT to abolish guns and the 2nd amendment all you wish, but it won't happen. The only way you'll live in a society with that kind of gun control is to move to another country. There is really no point in arguing with this petulant child. You know how kids are, they're forthright and never wrong.
_________________
Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro
He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
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DTexHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:38 am |
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:55 am
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"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
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That's weak sauce!
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kidhawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:40 am |
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 pm
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Location: Anchorage, AK
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SonicHawk wrote: I agree with people not taking weapons onto a plane and enforcing that and somehow that's the same as warrant-less wiretapping? Please explain how you find them different. I believe that listening into a conversation without a warrant is a violation of our freedoms. I believe that being searched at an airport is a violation of our freedoms. They listen to communications so they can find out who is planning terrorist acts and stop them. They search you at airports to find out who is planning terrorist acts and stop them. You are ok with one, but not the other. I am not ok with either. Since you seem to be hell bent on being pro-TSA, please explain the differences to me as you see them.
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coach78
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:44 am |
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:56 am
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As I read the 2nd Amendment, the purpose of this right is for the formation of a well regulated militia to defend against enemies (foreign and domestic).
I think most people are in favor of some restrictions on this freedom. I know of very few people advocating for the availability of SAM rockets, grenades, and other military weapons (warships, tanks, nuclear weapons, etc) for our citizenry. The debate is where to draw the line.
We are well past the point of taking guns away. We have a significant portion of the population that own guns - and the government will not be walking into anyone's house and taking them. We can have some logical/reasonable safeguards in place. Registered ownership, magazine restrictions, safety class requirements, waiting periods, no automatic weapons, background checks, safe storage, etc.
Before I'm called an idiot, left-wing, socialist, fascist, muslim, commie, pacifist, wussie, government loving, gun hating bastard - I realize these laws would not prevent all crazies from committing their atrocities. Very few of the proposed restrictions even deal with the weapons used in this (no word to describe) event. But I think that reasonable people need to come together to find ways of reducing these events. They should not ever occur, let alone on an annual basis.
When I listened to President Obama's speech, I heard a leader calling for professionals to gather (mental illness, law enforcement, government) to come up with some proposals to prevent this violence. While I'm sure gun control will be a part of this proposal, he did not once mention it. I believe, after all of these recent tragedies, we do need leadership to at least try to come up with some solutions.
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BlueTalon
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:45 am |
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:06 am
Posts: 6798
Location: Eastern Washington
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SonicHawk wrote: Why the fuck do we need a well armed militia? Ask the Korean shop owners in Los Angeles during the Rodney King riots.
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:46 am |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm
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kidhawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: I agree with people not taking weapons onto a plane and enforcing that and somehow that's the same as warrant-less wiretapping? Please explain how you find them different. I believe that listening into a conversation without a warrant is a violation of our freedoms. I believe that being searched at an airport is a violation of our freedoms. They listen to communications so they can find out who is planning terrorist acts and stop them. They search you at airports to find out who is planning terrorist acts and stop them. You are ok with one, but not the other. I am not ok with either. Since you seem to be hell bent on being pro-TSA, please explain the differences to me as you see them. What freedoms are being violated when you are searched at the airport for what deem is just cause?
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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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SmokinHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:53 am |
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am
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Location: Not Umatilla, Oregon
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12evanf wrote: SmokinHawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: Why the fuck do we need a well armed militia? See: The Revolutionary War. You know, that peasant army that rose up and drove the Brits out of our country, paving the way for our independence? You see, our forefathers had this crazy idea that if you want people to stop fucking you over, you might need to shoot at them a few times first. Are you so naive as to think that this would never again become necessary? Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and a veritable slough of South American and African dictators have long been fans of tight restrictions on the right to bear arms. Are you naive enough to think the American citizenry could topple the American military? The 2nd Amendment is moot, our government has completely surpassed any competition of a threat from its citizenship years ago. Um, yes? Do you think the American military would be deployed in full force in urban centers like NYC? Not a chance. It would not be a war in the conventional sense with artillery and air strikes. So yes, I think if a hundred million pissed off Americans rose up and wanted to topple the government, they would be successful.
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Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro
He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:56 am |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm
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Hard to imagine 100M Americans doing anything together... especially if it includes "rising up"
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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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BlueTalon
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:57 am |
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Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:06 am
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Location: Eastern Washington
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SonicHawk wrote: So... kidhawk, what weapons do you think we shouldn't have access to?
The second amendment says nothing about nuclear weapons. Can we possess those as citizens? '50 caliber machine guns? Napalms? Automatic pistols? Grenade launchers? Nuclear weapons do not serve a legitimate militia-related use. In the context of the militia clause, the intent was for a single person to become an immediate asset in a situation requiring a collective armed response. WMDs are crew-served, and therefore above your paygrade as a volunteer -- and any that are not crew-served are as much of a hazard to the people you are ostensibly trying to protect in said situation. It may surprise you to learn that as a citizen, you may indeed own a .50 caliber machine gun, an automatic pistol, or a grenade launcher. The are classified as Class III weapons according to the BATF. If you want to own one, you need a Class III license. If you apply for one, expect a very thorough background check (and expect to pay for it -- background checks aren't cheap).
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SmokinHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:58 am |
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am
Posts: 4747
Location: Not Umatilla, Oregon
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SonicHawk wrote: Hard to imagine 100M Americans doing anything together... especially if it includes "rising up" At your age, I bet it's hard to imagine a lot of things that don't come from comic books or television crime dramas.
_________________
Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro
He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
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kidhawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:01 pm |
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 pm
Posts: 10265
Location: Anchorage, AK
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SonicHawk wrote: kidhawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: I agree with people not taking weapons onto a plane and enforcing that and somehow that's the same as warrant-less wiretapping? Please explain how you find them different. I believe that listening into a conversation without a warrant is a violation of our freedoms. I believe that being searched at an airport is a violation of our freedoms. They listen to communications so they can find out who is planning terrorist acts and stop them. They search you at airports to find out who is planning terrorist acts and stop them. You are ok with one, but not the other. I am not ok with either. Since you seem to be hell bent on being pro-TSA, please explain the differences to me as you see them. What freedoms are being violated when you are searched at the airport for what deem is just cause? I see you refuse to answer how they are different. Nice way to attempt to deflect. You are good at that aren't you.
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Gun Controls Coming Boys And Girls Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:04 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm
Posts: 2365
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SmokinHawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: Hard to imagine 100M Americans doing anything together... especially if it includes "rising up" At your age, I bet it's hard to imagine a lot of things that don't come from comic books or television crime dramas. At my age? How old do you think I am anyways?
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