keeping flynn vs preparing for future secondary contracts

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  • i've seen people touch on this in several other threads and i don't want to hijack so im starting a new one.. when people are talking about trading/keeping flynn they keep hitting on a couple of things.. his value in trade and his cap hit in relation to having wilson as a 3rd round pick not making much.

    personally i'd think keeping flynn is a good option when considering the likely trade value for him is going to be a 3rd at best or later unless we start blowing everyone out and he gets a quarter or two of play in the next couple games and is able to show off some. if we were offered a 2nd.. i'd jump on that in a heart beat.

    however, i dont think keeping him beyond this season is viable.. yes we have russell wilson at a very low cap hit because he's a 3rd round rookie.. however we have to think beyond just the position of qb.. we could find a backup for wilson at a much cheaper price.. consider the avg salary for an nfl backup qb is about 1.6-2 mill per year.. however they are widely varying and thats probably a little higher than it should be due to situations like ours and the niners where there is/was a qb controversy and you end up with a backup making 5-8 million in a year.. flynn's contract calls for 5.25 million in 2013 and 6.25 million in 2014, over the course of the next two years that would be 11.5 million dollars.. wilson has shown no signs of being injury prone, our line is starting to play better around him and should improve in the offseason some more, he's taken some hits this year already and no signs of ill effect so i'd assume flynn will just rot away another season. now you have to consider the names on defense who will eventually want to be paid.. and its going to be cutting it very close to keep the guys we have.. i think we will end up losing atleast one or two names that most of us dont want to see go, browner is the guy i see being a casualty of not having enough to pay him.. he's almost 30.. hasn't had a big pay day yet in the nfl so he's going to be looking for his contract to get him set up for the rest of his life. anyways, to sum it up that 11.5 million dollars would go a lot further for our team in putting it towards a guy like sherman who we would be crazy to ever let go of.
    Last edited by redhawk253 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • redhawk253 wrote:anyways, to sum it up that 11.5 million dollars would go a lot further for our team in putting it towards a guy like sherman who we would be crazy to ever let go of.

    Agree with this a lot.
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  • so who would you like to see brought in as a backup? i saw hasselbeck's name mentioned before and i think that would probably work out well. he's played for pete and had a taste of his offense so he would be a quick fit and i think he would thrive in a backup role would be a great teacher for wilson.
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  • redhawk253 wrote:so who would you like to see brought in as a backup?


    100% yes, just not Hasselbeck.....that era is long gone and he doesn't fit what we do. I would prefer they draft someone in the 6th - 7th round (as well as sign a backup) and develop the 6th/7th round guy so he could backup at some point or be trade bait.
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  • Seems like a good plan to me. I like Flynn a lot but there are other priorities for sure. Josh Johnson could be a nice backup I think.
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  • You don't overpay the DB's and undervalue the QB, that's just ludicrous. Flynn's contract is high, but not out of range of some of the better backup qb's in the league.

    Russell Wilson will get BANK when he re-ups after his third year. At this point, we can worry about restructuring Flynn or moving on to another backup, but until then, we are not hurting our cap numbers by keeping him around.

    When you have a team salary cap, you have to have allotments for each position. There are many creative ways to stagger payments and using bonuses and other such things to make very good contracts fit into the cap.

    Again, and I can't reiterate this enough....we have MORE THAN ENOUGH cap room to re-sign the players we want to keep AND keep Flynn.

    The title of this thread is just WRONG. There is no choice between Flynn and our DB's we can easily keep both under the cap
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  • Flynn definitely isn't gonna be around for long. I think we need to get a back up who is similar to Wilson, Hass is nothing like him.

    I think we will draft a back up to groom or maybe even bring back Portis if they like him enough once we ship Flynn out.
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  • amill87 wrote:Flynn definitely isn't gonna be around for long. I think we need to get a back up who is similar to Wilson, Hass is nothing like him.

    I think we will draft a back up to groom or maybe even bring back Portis if they like him enough once we ship Flynn out.


    If we wanted to keep Portis, he'd still be here. They wouldn't risk him hitting the market if they felt he was a viable option as a 2nd string qb.
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  • This is misleading. The decision on Flynn is more of a 2013 pre-season decision, and none of our secondary players have to be locked up until after the seasson, though I would expect at least one or two of them to be extended before the end of the 2013 season.
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  • razgriz737 wrote:
    redhawk253 wrote:anyways, to sum it up that 11.5 million dollars would go a lot further for our team in putting it towards a guy like sherman who we would be crazy to ever let go of.

    Agree with this a lot.

    A couple of problems with the OP line of thinking....One, Flynn is not scheduled to earn that much next year. Quite a bit less, actually. Two, Sherman's contract cannot be modified, due to the CBA restrictions for 1-2 more years. (Can't recall if it 3 or 4 years). At any rate, if those are the reasons you are trading a perfectly good backup QB, then they are moot at best.
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  • kidhawk wrote:You don't overpay the DB's and undervalue the QB, that's just ludicrous. Flynn's contract is high, but not out of range of some of the better backup qb's in the league.


    you're response is completely misleading.. i would agree you don't overpay a DB and underpay a starting QB.. but thats exactly where you went wrong.. flynn is a backup.. not a starter.. he is making starter money. thats not undervaluing a player.. we have a qb who has shown everything a rookie could to point towards becoming elite in the near future. now where did i ever say we need to overpay sherman? thats right i didn't sherman is one of the top 3 corners in the game right now.. maybe the best.. where are you getting this info that we will be able to keep all of our secondary players? see you hit on a good point that i may not have mentioned but yeah there are many creative ways of structuring players contracts n what not.. one being front loading a players contract.. those 5.5 and 6.5 million dollar hits in the upcoming 2 years could be used to start getting players locked down. do you have any idea of the names coming up for free agency in the near future that will be expecting big pay days? lets have a look.. and im going to just delve into the whole team since theres some other important names in there like tate...

    cameron morrah - UFA 2013
    leroy hill - UFA 2013
    jason jones - UFA 2013

    kam chancelor - UFA 2014
    brandon browner - RFA 2014
    anthony mccoy - UFA 2014
    ben obamanu - UFA 2014
    michael robinson - UFA 2014
    golden tate - UFA 2014
    walter thurmond - UFA 2014
    doug baldwin - RFA 2014

    leon washington - UFA 2015
    kj wright - UFA 2015
    john moffit - UFA 2015
    richard sherman - UFA 2015
    earl thomas - UFA 2015
    chris clemmons - UFA 2015 (think he will be gone)

    theres others as well but these are the names that popped out at me.. most of these guys are starters, projected starters, or atleast see a lot of snaps.. i mean look at the names in 2014 and 2015.. you know that sherman and thomas are going to get paid then guys like tate especially if he keeps up what he's doing is gona have a high price too.. we cant hold off too much longer on getting some of those guys locked up.. we don't want sherman, thomas, or tate testing the market.. im not saying that that 11.5 million is enough to do so.. but i sure as hell would rather throw that 5-6 million in each of the next years at extending someone who plays every snap and plays a vital role on the team than a backup qb. the end.
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  • Jazzhawk wrote:
    razgriz737 wrote:
    redhawk253 wrote:anyways, to sum it up that 11.5 million dollars would go a lot further for our team in putting it towards a guy like sherman who we would be crazy to ever let go of.

    Agree with this a lot.

    A couple of problems with the OP line of thinking....One, Flynn is not scheduled to earn that much next year. Quite a bit less, actually. Two, Sherman's contract cannot be modified, due to the CBA restrictions for 1-2 more years. (Can't recall if it 3 or 4 years). At any rate, if those are the reasons you are trading a perfectly good backup QB, then they are moot at best.


    To answer your question, the CBA states that a team cannot renegotiate a rookie contract until after the END of the 3rd season. I looked this up in the actual CBA online recently just to be sure
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  • Jazzhawk wrote:
    razgriz737 wrote:
    redhawk253 wrote:anyways, to sum it up that 11.5 million dollars would go a lot further for our team in putting it towards a guy like sherman who we would be crazy to ever let go of.

    Agree with this a lot.

    A couple of problems with the OP line of thinking....One, Flynn is not scheduled to earn that much next year. Quite a bit less, actually. Two, Sherman's contract cannot be modified, due to the CBA restrictions for 1-2 more years. (Can't recall if it 3 or 4 years). At any rate, if those are the reasons you are trading a perfectly good backup QB, then they are moot at best.


    you should probably read the entirety of the post before commenting.. he is scheduled to make 5.25 mill next year and 6.25 the year after for a total of 11.5 million and sherman is just an example.. there are several other players that need to be taken care of that are more important to the team than flynn.
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  • redhawk253 wrote:you should probably read the entirety of the post before commenting.. he is scheduled to make 5.25 mill next year and 6.25 the year after for a total of 11.5 million and sherman is just an example.. there are several other players that need to be taken care of that are more important to the team than flynn.


    We are pretty well under the cap, this year, and Flynn is due to make a reasonable salary. If we can't keep the players that we have due while keeping Flynn, than they are either looking for STUPID money or we have an idiot cap specialist. I don't believe either of these things are true.

    Keeping Flynn or getting rid of Flynn will have NOTHING to do with his salary vs. the cap.
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  • Jazzhawk wrote:
    razgriz737 wrote:
    redhawk253 wrote:anyways, to sum it up that 11.5 million dollars would go a lot further for our team in putting it towards a guy like sherman who we would be crazy to ever let go of.

    Agree with this a lot.

    A couple of problems with the OP line of thinking....One, Flynn is not scheduled to earn that much next year. Quite a bit less, actually. Two, Sherman's contract cannot be modified, due to the CBA restrictions for 1-2 more years. (Can't recall if it 3 or 4 years). At any rate, if those are the reasons you are trading a perfectly good backup QB, then they are moot at best.

    Whether it's this offseason, next offseason, or whenever, the notion I agree with is that I would hate to lose one of our more important players just to keep Flynn on the bench. That's all.
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  • razgriz737 wrote:Whether it's this offseason, next offseason, or whenever, the notion I agree with is that I would hate to lose one of our more important players just to keep Flynn on the bench. That's all.


    That is not going to happen. we have over 10 million in cap space (Last I heard was 15 million, but I know it changes). I've seen teams with next to nothing still get big deals done for their players. If it came down to it, they'd get it done to keep players they feel is important. For us to worry about this is ridiculous. The team has full time cap strategists who know how to deal with these situations. It's not a problem
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  • [quote="razgriz737 Whether it's this offseason, next offseason, or whenever, the notion I agree with is that I would hate to lose one of our more important players just to keep Flynn on the bench. That's all.[/quote]

    this is exactly my point and these guys are just trying to nitpick it.. theres a lot of big names coming up in free agency that are going to demand big money.. our team is going to have to do all it can to manipulate the cap to the point where we can lock these guys in and do other work in the offseason. 5.25 and 6.25 may not be huge ammounts of money in relation to some players contracts.. but its pretty damn big for a BACKUP QB!!! a backup qb averages 1.5-2 million a year.. and thats skewed because of issues like ours and the niners where a backup is making starter money.. i think its safe to say we could get away with paying a backup qb about 1-2 million a season saving us a good 3.25-4.25 in 2013 and 4.25-5.25 in 2014... that could be tate's salary... or michael robinson and wt3... thats a lot of damn money to invest in a backup qb.
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  • I agree with the issue about salary but as much as I "love" RW he is a rookie and we don't know how things will go next year. He is also being run about more now so will he get injured?

    To me we keep Flynn for next year. We go over the existing contracts and as we have cap room we increase the signing bonuses for next year and get right up to the cap.

    2014 - we cut Flynn assuming RW pans out as expected. Maybe we picked up a 4th-6th round qb in this draft and we feel very good about him. We also resign the players we want to and we again frontload the contracts as much as possible

    2015 we pay RW $20 million.........
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  • I agree that keeping Sherman and some others is important. But the cost of Flynn for the NEXT 2 years is not unreasonable at all. Combine that with the facts, as Kidhawk provided, we are well under the cap and are managed quite well. Personally, I'm just not of the opinion that we should just get rid of a perfectly good backup QB. Hey, Turbin is a great backup to Marshawn...lets trade him. Hey, Walter Thurmond is a great backup to Sherman and Browner...lets trade him. Hey, Jeron Johnson is a great backup to Earl Thomas...lets trade him. If the team really thinks they are paying too much, renegotiate Flynn's contract. Hey, that would make him even more attractive in a trade. Bottom line, I'd rather keep Flynn as a high quality backup that I know we could win games with should Wilson go out.
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  • Who would have thought that so many would be so bored with a run at making the playoffs. This season is not over. The fight for a championship is front and center. And yet many of you are missing out with a strange preoccupation with unloading contracts and players. :34853_doh:
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  • kidhawk wrote:
    razgriz737 wrote:Whether it's this offseason, next offseason, or whenever, the notion I agree with is that I would hate to lose one of our more important players just to keep Flynn on the bench. That's all.


    That is not going to happen. we have over 10 million in cap space (Last I heard was 15 million, but I know it changes). I've seen teams with next to nothing still get big deals done for their players. If it came down to it, they'd get it done to keep players they feel is important. For us to worry about this is ridiculous. The team has full time cap strategists who know how to deal with these situations. It's not a problem


    yeah because a player has never left a team before because they couldn't afford to pay him because there money was tied up elsewhere.. i dont know if its me or what.. but you're coming across as if you think we don't have to contend with the market in relation to our players becoming free agents.. you do understand that this is the kind of things teams think about when considering to keep, release, trade players... if you dont think for one second the guys higher up aren't talking about the money that could be saved in trading flynn for a pick and using that money to lock down someone else on the team... well then i just had a nice little laugh at your expense imagining that.
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  • Jville wrote:Who would have thought that so many would be so bored with a run at making the playoffs. This season is not over. The fight for a championship is front and center. And yet many of you are missing out with a strange preoccupation with unloading contracts and players. :34853_doh:

    Trying to pass the time until Sunday and it's too early to start drinking. Bear with me, haha.
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  • redhawk253 wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    razgriz737 wrote:Whether it's this offseason, next offseason, or whenever, the notion I agree with is that I would hate to lose one of our more important players just to keep Flynn on the bench. That's all.


    That is not going to happen. we have over 10 million in cap space (Last I heard was 15 million, but I know it changes). I've seen teams with next to nothing still get big deals done for their players. If it came down to it, they'd get it done to keep players they feel is important. For us to worry about this is ridiculous. The team has full time cap strategists who know how to deal with these situations. It's not a problem


    yeah because a player has never left a team before because they couldn't afford to pay him because there money was tied up elsewhere.. i dont know if its me or what.. but you're coming across as if you think we don't have to contend with the market in relation to our players becoming free agents.. you do understand that this is the kind of things teams think about when considering to keep, release, trade players... if you dont think for one second the guys higher up aren't talking about the money that could be saved in trading flynn for a pick and using that money to lock down someone else on the team... well then i just had a nice little laugh at your expense imagining that.


    We aren't in cap trouble, so although I'm sure the team has it's people in place discussing all the options (I said this in another post already), you seem to be of the mind that Flynn's contract is going to keep that from happening. I'm here to tell you that I guarantee you that is absolutely not the case.

    Maybe you aren't familiar with how the new CBA works. Guys who sign these rookie tenders cannot even renegotiate for the first 3 years and they have 4 year contracts. This gives us a FULL year to renegotiate the terms of these deals and work out how to best make the contract fit into the team's cap structure.

    Under the salary cap structure, any smart team has it's own guidelines on how much to spend on any given position. Different teams have players at different levels in different positions, but they all have these structures in place. I can guarantee you that we do, because I've heard Schneider talk about them before. Using basic math principals, and knowing that the salary cap adjusts with the income the league makes, and knowing that we are one of the top teams with salary cap space, and have quite a few guys making rookie contracts who can't even be negotiated until AFTER next season or later, all adds up to Flynn and his contract NOT being an issue. Anyone who believes it is an issue right now is off their rocker or mathematically challenged
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  • Jazzhawk wrote:I agree that keeping Sherman and some others is important. But the cost of Flynn for the NEXT 2 years is not unreasonable at all. Combine that with the facts, as Kidhawk provided, we are well under the cap and are managed quite well. Personally, I'm just not of the opinion that we should just get rid of a perfectly good backup QB. Hey, Turbin is a great backup to Marshawn...lets trade him. Hey, Walter Thurmond is a great backup to Sherman and Browner...lets trade him. Hey, Jeron Johnson is a great backup to Earl Thomas...lets trade him. If the team really thinks they are paying too much, renegotiate Flynn's contract. Hey, that would make him even more attractive in a trade. Bottom line, I'd rather keep Flynn as a high quality backup that I know we could win games with should Wilson go out.


    every one of those players you mentioned see the field during a game.. and i'd argue that wt3 is our future starter across from sherman if he can stay healthy this time.. turbin plays and has an impact on the game.. flynn is the backup qb.. he only sees action in garbage time or if rw gets hurt.. there are other guys that can be had for less that dont provide much more of a dropoff than flynn. and if your starting qb goes out of the game your odds of winning go down considerably.. unless of course you can rely on your defense to carry you through the game.. so why not put that money towards improving the defense? have to look to the future if rw keeps doing what he's doing.. he's going to get paid really big.. he's a free agent in 2016.. im willing to bet he's going to see the largest contract for a seahawk qb ever.

    on an unrelated note.. im pretty sure flynn isn't happy backing up rw.. theres just a multitude of reasons why flynn will likely be traded this offseason.
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  • kidhawk

    well you're basing your statement on averages essentially.. this is what we want to spend on a secondary any given year yada yada yada.. theres other things that factor into what they actually have to spend. like maybe having 3 or 4 probowlers in that secondary which is way out of the norm. so what you're saying is you don't think that we're going to have to make an exception to the rule when attempting to re-sign potentially the top corner and one of the top safeties in the game in 2015? i beg to differ.. that money is going to have to come from one of the other positions.. and flynn offers one of the largest chunks you will be able to find by getting rid of one single player.
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  • redhawk253 wrote:kidhawk

    well you're basing your statement on averages essentially.. this is what we want to spend on a secondary any given year yada yada yada.. theres other things that factor into what they actually have to spend. like maybe having 3 or 4 probowlers in that secondary which is way out of the norm. so what you're saying is you don't think that we're going to have to make an exception to the rule when attempting to re-sign potentially the top corner and one of the top safeties in the game in 2015? i beg to differ.. that money is going to have to come from one of the other positions.. and flynn offers one of the largest chunks you will be able to find by getting rid of one single player.


    Go back and read what I wrote. I said that teams have different values for different positions. Obviously you value your better talent higher, but each team still has a system under which they operate. Obviously a team with 3 probowl DB's will spend more money there, similar to how a team with 2 or 3 pro bowl LB's will spend more money there and a team with a future HOF qb will spend more money there. It's all unique to each team. Our team has it's own system, and no matter what they value each position at, Flynn's contract is not exceedingly high and with the current batch of upcoming free agents won't be a problem for us financially.

    This doesn't mean that behind the scenes, they don't have a plan to replace him and get something for him, neither I, nor anyone else in this forum could possibly know that, but as far as numbers are concerned, Flynn's contract is NOT a problem for re-signing other players.
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  • Kidhawk - I agree with you in general but I think you are oversimplifyng and here is why

    For simplicity of math say you have one guy - Sherman - signed for 3 years can't negotiate. You have $500K salary for him year 1, 2 and 3
    You have one other player like Lynch big contract but you want to keep him long term he is making $10 million (simple numbers for the sake of it)

    Those are the only two players on your team :) -- salary cap is $15 million

    You can wait to year three and realize Sherman wants $10 million / year as well. Lynch still wants his $10 million - crap you are over the cap and get rid of a guy

    Or in year two you re-sign lynch give him an extra signing bonus of $4.5 million so he makes $14.5 in year two but he agress to a lower salary in year 3 at the tune of $5.5 million. Outcome for Lynch - $20 million same as otherwise, more up-front good for him he won't get cut.....

    Now negotiate with Sherman he agrees to $9.5 million instead - two years under the cap keep both players

    I agree keep Flynn one more year but in 2 years that is too much money on the bench
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  • Waste of space to pay Flynn that much next year.

    If Flynn was so damn good he wouldn't be sitting on the bench anyways. I'm ok with letting him go.
    I enjoy ruining threads by making them about personal attacks and then commenting about how personal attacks make the other person's argument invalid.

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  • mikeak wrote:Kidhawk - I agree with you in general but I think you are oversimplifyng and here is why

    For simplicity of math say you have one guy - Sherman - signed for 3 years can't negotiate. You have $500K salary for him year 1, 2 and 3
    You have one other player like Lynch big contract but you want to keep him long term he is making $10 million (simple numbers for the sake of it)

    Those are the only two players on your team :) -- salary cap is $15 million

    You can wait to year three and realize Sherman wants $10 million / year as well. Lynch still wants his $10 million - crap you are over the cap and get rid of a guy

    Or in year two you re-sign lynch give him an extra signing bonus of $4.5 million so he makes $14.5 in year two but he agress to a lower salary in year 3 at the tune of $5.5 million. Outcome for Lynch - $20 million same as otherwise, more up-front good for him he won't get cut.....

    Now negotiate with Sherman he agrees to $9.5 million instead - two years under the cap keep both players

    I agree keep Flynn one more year but in 2 years that is too much money on the bench


    I'm merely keeping it simple because we have nothing concrete to discuss here. There are tons of options for how to stay under the cap. The only difference from next year, to the year after is about a million dollars as far as Flynn's cap number. As you said, players can and may renegotiate other contracts to get bonuses that defer. It's a popular way to create space. My ENTIRE point is that this thread is meaningless, because we are not in trouble as far as the cap is concerned. We are one of the teams with the most cap space, we have quite a few players who cannot make huge salaries due to their youth. We also will draft more players over the course of the next two drafts who will come to the team making lower salaries and you will see a few vets that won't be here because those younger guys will replace them and their salaries. There are lots of variables, but Flynn's contract is not a problem for us in the upcoming off season and this entire thread about it being Flynn vs. keeping talent is WAY WAY out of whack, because it's not coming down to that.
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  • we also need to either resign jason jones next year... i'd personally like to improve at the position.. so where does that money come from? gona need to restructure some guys next year as well preparing for the big hits were gona see in 2014 and 2015.. that 5.25 million is just sitting there on the bench anyways.. and like i said in one of my other posts if russell wilson continues to play how he has he's likely to see the largest seahawks qb contract ever.. thats going to require a lot of money.. might as well start making room for it by restructuring guys in the years we have some free space to work with..

    all of this falls under the way side when considering we still need to improve on a year to year basis as well.. which takes signing new guys.. would you rather pay money to a dt that can collapse the pocket or a backup qb that rides the pine?
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  • kidhawk wrote:
    redhawk253 wrote:kidhawk

    well you're basing your statement on averages essentially.. this is what we want to spend on a secondary any given year yada yada yada.. theres other things that factor into what they actually have to spend. like maybe having 3 or 4 probowlers in that secondary which is way out of the norm. so what you're saying is you don't think that we're going to have to make an exception to the rule when attempting to re-sign potentially the top corner and one of the top safeties in the game in 2015? i beg to differ.. that money is going to have to come from one of the other positions.. and flynn offers one of the largest chunks you will be able to find by getting rid of one single player.


    Go back and read what I wrote. I said that teams have different values for different positions. Obviously you value your better talent higher, but each team still has a system under which they operate. Obviously a team with 3 probowl DB's will spend more money there, similar to how a team with 2 or 3 pro bowl LB's will spend more money there and a team with a future HOF qb will spend more money there. It's all unique to each team. Our team has it's own system, and no matter what they value each position at, Flynn's contract is not exceedingly high and with the current batch of upcoming free agents won't be a problem for us financially.

    This doesn't mean that behind the scenes, they don't have a plan to replace him and get something for him, neither I, nor anyone else in this forum could possibly know that, but as far as numbers are concerned, Flynn's contract is NOT a problem for re-signing other players.


    you're not using common sense.. it completely does.. the point remains we don't have unlimited resources when signing these guys and we have to come in under the cap.. no matter what value the team places on any given position we have some huge contracts coming up that we're going to have to pay and we are going to have to make room and i still want to sign some guys to improve other positions.. that money will need to be cleared out to make room.
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  • i agree that his cap number isn't completely ridiculous.. but we are going to have to pay some ridiculous contracts soon.. and any way you split it if you can save 4-5 million dollars on one guy who isn't making an impact.. no two ways about it he is simply a backup qb.. you have to get rid of him and get that money..
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  • basically it comes down to this..

    you think we already have the cap room to pay everyone we need to easily..

    i think we're going to have to be creative and save money where we can because we dont and you know pete still wants some more new toys as well.
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  • http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/

    This is a list of player contracts that expire after this season

    Jason Jones - $4.5 million
    Leroy Hill - $1.6 million
    Steven Hauschka - $1.26 million
    Frank Omiyale - $1.225 million
    Clint Gresham - $1.224 million
    Charly Martin - $1.02 million
    Chris Maragos - $870 thousand
    Clinton McDonald - $540 thousand
    Alan Branch - $7 million
    Marcus Trufant - $1.3 million


    Please show me where we are in such dire trouble financially here

    Just so you know, Thomas and Sherman and Kam are signed through 2014 and Thurmond and Browner are listed as 2013

    Edited to add in the DB contract timing
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  • I don't think Flynn has any interest in staying around.

    I would rather pick up a rookie in the 4-7th then keep Flynn around.
    I enjoy ruining threads by making them about personal attacks and then commenting about how personal attacks make the other person's argument invalid.

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  • it doesn't matter if those contracts expire lol.. we still have to resign or replace those players at those positions.. and those are total contracts.. not year to year cap hits so those numbers aren't the actual amount of money that will be free'd up from the cap...

    so to go with your line of thought..

    browner is making about 500k a year..
    chancelor is making about 500k a year...
    sherman is making about 500k a year....
    tate is making about 500k a year.....
    thomas is making 1.5 mill and 2.5 mill respectively in 2013 and 2014......

    heres a list of the top 20 salaries at each position for 2012... look at those numbers.. those are millions and millions above what these guys are making.. assuming we resign sherman, thomas, chancelor, and tate as they are young still improving and all are exceptional players at their positions (tate is coming out of his shell needs to prove he can continue to be consistent and i'd like to see a bit more from chancelor) but all of them will be highly valued by the rest of the league.. where do you think all this money is coming from.. because we may have space.. but we dont have THAT much space..

    CB:

    Darrelle Revis, Jets - $12,100,000 - Signed thru 2013
    Charles Woodson, Packers - $11,500,000 - Signed thru 2014
    Nnamdi Asomugha, Eagles - $11,000,000 - Signed thru 2015
    Brent Grimes, Falcons - $10,281,000 - Signed thru 2012
    Chris Gamble, Panthers - $9,950,000 - Signed thru 2014
    Johnathan Joseph, Texans - $9,750,000 - Signed thru 2015
    Brandon Flowers, Chiefs - $9,750,000 - Signed thru 2016
    Champ Bailey, Broncos - $9,500,000 - Signed thru 2014
    DeAngelo Hall, Redskins - $9,500,000 - Signed thru 2014
    Corey Webster, Giants - $8,470,000 - Signed thru 2013
    Leon Hall, Bengals - $8,400,000 - Signed thru 2015
    Eric Wright, Buccaneers - $8,250,000 - Signed thru 2016
    Antonio Cromartie, Jets - $8,050,000 - Signed thru 2014
    Tramon Williams, Packers - $7,300,000 - Signed thru 2014
    Joe Haden, Browns - $6,365,505 - Signed thru 2014
    Jabari Greer, Saints - $6,150,000 - Signed thru 2012
    Stanford Routt, Chiefs - $6,000,000 - Signed thru 2014
    Cortland Finnegan, Rams - $6,000,000 - Signed thru 2016
    Carlos Rogers, 49ers - $5,500,000 - Signed thru 2015
    Sheldon Brown, Browns - $5,366,667 - Signed thru 2012

    FS:

    Quinton Mikel, Rams - $10,000,000 - Signed thru 2014
    Antrel Rolle, Giants - $9,000,000 - Signed thru 2014
    Eric Weddle, Chargers - $7,600,000 - Signed thru 2015
    Ed Reed, Ravens - $7,200,000 - Signed thru 2012
    Antoine Bethea, Colts - $5,025,000 - Signed thru 2013
    Kerry Rhodes, Cardinals - $5,000,000 - Signed thru 2012
    Ryan Clark, Steelers - $3,750,000 - Signed thru 2013
    Daniel Manning, Texans - $3,500,000 - Signed thru 2014
    Eric Smith, Jets - $3,266,667 - Signed thru 2013
    Michael Huff, Raiders - $3,183,333 - Signed thru 2014
    Ronde Barberm Buccaneers - $3,000,000 - Signed thru 2012
    Malcolm Jenkins, Saints - $2,710,000 - Signed thru 2013
    Mike Adams, Broncos - $2,125,000 - Signed thru 2013
    Thomas DeCoud, Falcons - $2,000,000 - Signed thru 2016
    Dawan Landry, Jaguars - $1,850,000 - Signed thru 2015
    Usama Young, Browns - $1,800,000 - Signed thru 2013
    Gerald Sensabaugh, Cowboys - $1,800,000 - Signed thru 2016
    Dwight Lowery, Jaguars - $1,750,000 - Signed thru 2015
    Steve Gregory, Patriots - $1,683,333 - Signed thru 2014
    Haruki Nakamura, Panthers - $1,033,333 - Signed thru 2014

    SS:

    Adrian Wilson, Cardinals - $10,550,000 - Signed thru 2013
    Troy Polamalu, Steelers - $8,890,000 - Signed thru 2014
    Roman Harper, Saints - $6,250,000 - Signed thru 2012
    Tyvon Branch, Raiders - $6,212,000 - Signed thru 2012
    Eric Berry, Chiefs - $4,842,800 - Signed thru 2014
    Donte Whitner, 49ers - $4,383,333 - Signed thru 2013
    Brandon Meriwwather, Bears - $2.950,000 - Signed thru 2013
    Kenny Phillips, Giants - $2,586,000 - Signed thru 2012
    Bernard Pollard, Ravens - $1,950,000 - Signed thru 2015
    George Wilson, Bills - $1,791,666 - Signed thru 2013
    Will Allen, Steelers - $1,605,000 - Signed thru 2012
    Yeremiah Bell, Jets - $1,400,000 - Signed thru 2012
    Jordan Babineaux, Titans - $1,400,000 - Signed thru 2013
    Eric Frampton, Vikings - $1,233,333 - Signed thru 2013
    Brodney Pool, Cowboys - $1,200,000 - Signed thru 2012
    Craig Dahl, Rams - $1,200,000 - Signed thru 2012
    Reed Doughty, Redskins - $1,150,000 - Signed thru 2013
    Pat Chung, Patriots - $1,115,000 - Signed thru 2012
    C.J. Spillman, 49ers - $1,080,000 - Signed thru 2014
    T.J. Ward, Browns - $1,058,750 - Signed thru 2013

    WR:

    Larry Fitzgerald, Cardinals - $13,250,000 - Signed thru 2018
    Vincent Jackson, Buccaneers - $13,000,000 - Signed thru 2016
    Darrius Heyward-Bey, Raiders - $10,409,000 - Signed thru 2013
    Wes Welker, Patriots - $9,515,000 - Signed thru 2012
    Brandon Marshall, Bears - $9,300,000 - Signed thru 2014
    Calvin Johnson, Lions - $8,950,000 - Signed thru 2019
    Sidney Rice, Seahawks - $8,200,000 - Signed thru 2015
    Roddy White, Falcons - $8,075,000 - Signed thru 2014
    Santonio Holmes, Jets - $8,000,000 - Signed thru 2015
    Greg Jennings, Packers - $7,397,500 - Signed thru 2012
    Jordy Nelson, Packers - $6,825,000 - Signed thru 2014
    Mike Thomas, Jaguars - $6,000,000 - Signed thru 2015
    Michael Crabtree, 49ers - $5,359,000 - Signed thru 2014
    Laurent Robinson, Jaguars - $4,600,000 - Signed thru 2016
    Steve Breaston, Chiefs - $4,600,000 - Signed thru 2015
    Stevie Johnson, Bills - $4,575,000 - Signed thru 2016
    Joshua Morgan, Redskins - $4,550,000 - Signed thru 2013
    A.J. Green, Bengals - $4,472,413 - Signed thru 2014
    Santana Moss, Redskins - $4,316,667 - Signed thru 2013
    Donald Driver, Packers - $4,300,000 - Signed thru 2012
    Pierre Garcon, Redskins - $4,300,000 - Signed thru 2016
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  • SonicHawk wrote:I don't think Flynn has any interest in staying around.

    I would rather pick up a rookie in the 4-7th then keep Flynn around.


    Yes, this is a great idea, because this year's crop of quarterbacks is the new norm, and we should expect to get a guy in the late rounds of the draft who can come in and take us into the playoffs if something happens to Wilson.

    Hey I have an idea, why not just keep the one qb on the team, that way we save all that money we normally waste on a backup. We could let RealRob or one of our other guys with previous qb experience play if Wilson gets hurt.

    :sarcasm_off:
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  • Flynn is awesome.

    If Sherm can command 14 million a year would you pay it?
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  • redhawk253 wrote:it doesn't matter if those contracts expire lol.. we still have to resign or replace those players at those positions.. and those are total contracts.. not year to year cap hits so those numbers aren't the actual amount of money that will be free'd up from the cap...

    so to go with your line of thought..

    browner is making about 500k a year..
    chancelor is making about 500k a year...
    sherman is making about 500k a year....
    tate is making about 500k a year.....
    thomas is making 1.5 mill and 2.5 mill respectively in 2013 and 2014......



    Yes I took out that long list of meaningless numbers, because I am trying to figure out what the hell you are talking about. NOBODY on your list is going to be a free agent, therefor none of them matter as far as the upcoming year is concerned cap-wise

    I showed you the list of Free agents this off season. The only one on there that I think we would like to have back and should make a good salary is Jason Jones. I think Branch is upgradeable for the money he makes, although I'd keep him at a lower rate. None of our "stars" are free agents, so there is no money issue. Now, if you want to look ahead to the 2014 season, then there's something to discuss, but there is no cap issue coming off of this current season. We have the entire off season, and all of next year and the off season after that to worry about getting the 2013 guys re-signed. The only people we need to worry about as far as cap space is concerned in the coming year is the people on the list I put up there.

    Come back next year if you want to worry about cap numbers for 2014 and beyond. There are WAY too many variables that will arise between now and then to even consider what kind of cap hit Flynn will be 2 years down the road.

    Edit to add their current cap hits for you:

    Jason Jones - $4.5 million
    Leroy Hill - $1.6 million
    Steven Hauschka - $1.26 million
    Frank Omiyale - $1.225 million
    Clint Gresham - $490 thousand
    Charly Martin - $113.9 thousand
    Chris Maragos - $540 thousand
    Clinton McDonald - $540 thousand
    Alan Branch - $4.55 million
    Marcus Trufant - $1.3 m

    Also, if you look at the link for the cap hits, there is a list of "dead money buyouts" some of this money is going to free up next year as well (some may have been a split and may carry over but the site doesn't say). This is approximately $9 million
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  • kidhawk wrote:
    SonicHawk wrote:I don't think Flynn has any interest in staying around.

    I would rather pick up a rookie in the 4-7th then keep Flynn around.


    Yes, this is a great idea, because this year's crop of quarterbacks is the new norm, and we should expect to get a guy in the late rounds of the draft who can come in and take us into the playoffs if something happens to Wilson.

    Hey I have an idea, why not just keep the one qb on the team, that way we save all that money we normally waste on a backup. We could let RealRob or one of our other guys with previous qb experience play if Wilson gets hurt.

    :sarcasm_off:


    If something happens to Wilson we're poo out of luck anyways. Why waste the money on a guy who hopefully never plays? This team isn't making the playoffs with Matt Flynn.

    I would much rather put money into one of our many needs instead of paying our backup 10x more than our starting QB because we think that Flynn is 10x better than anything else we could get.

    I'm not sold on Flynn, I don't see any reason why you would be. He looked marginal at best on Sun, he's a career backup and he got beat out by a rookie. Time to move on.
    I enjoy ruining threads by making them about personal attacks and then commenting about how personal attacks make the other person's argument invalid.

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  • So, the OP' premise was...keeping Flynn or keeping our secondary, basically saying since Flynn is making so much money next year, we won't be able to keep our secondary together, so we should ship him off for draft picks. So, in answer to that.....none of our Secondary are FA's next season, as kidhawk has accurately pointed out. Therefore, the point is moot.
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  • you're playing stupid.. we all know they're not free agents next year... you are simply dodging the points im making.. these contracts will be jumping from about 500k a piece to 10-20 times that in a year or two time.. we have guys that are signed through longer periods of time that we can restructure to front portions of their contract with the extra money we save getting rid of flynn..

    you dont think they're going to have to plan ahead for the hits on the cap these guys are going to make? they have to be thought of a year or two prior to this.. which is what they will be doing when they trade flynn this offseason and restructure contracts for 2014 and 2015 fronting some in 2013.. theres going to be several years in a row where they're gona have to cut fat paychecks.
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  • Jazzhawk wrote:So, the OP' premise was...keeping Flynn or keeping our secondary, basically saying since Flynn is making so much money next year, we won't be able to keep our secondary together, so we should ship him off for draft picks. So, in answer to that.....none of our Secondary are FA's next season, as kidhawk has accurately pointed out. Therefore, the point is moot.


    no it was not.. dont put words in my mouth.. its obvious what my point is.. the time is coming soon where these guys will be free agents and we will have to plan ahead for the massive contracts they will be making so that we can maintain reasonable cap numbers for them over the course of their contracts. you guys must be flynn lovers or something.. you're making every excuse in the book not to use common sense.
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  • Atradees wrote:Flynn is awesome.

    If Sherm can command 14 million a year would you pay it?



    i dont know where you got 14 million a year when revis is only making 12 million.. but hypothetically speaking if sherm can command 14 million a year yeah i'll tell you exactly what i'd do.. id trade flynn and use the 6.25 million that he's scheduled to be paid to pay part of sherman's contract as he is 100 times more valuable to this team than flynn is.. take away that 6.25 million from 14 and it would be a 7.75 million dollar net cap hit. yuppp gladly.
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  • Not convinced there is a trade market for Flynn.
    I enjoy ruining threads by making them about personal attacks and then commenting about how personal attacks make the other person's argument invalid.

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  • kidhawk wrote:
    SonicHawk wrote:I don't think Flynn has any interest in staying around.

    I would rather pick up a rookie in the 4-7th then keep Flynn around.


    Yes, this is a great idea, because this year's crop of quarterbacks is the new norm, and we should expect to get a guy in the late rounds of the draft who can come in and take us into the playoffs if something happens to Wilson.

    Hey I have an idea, why not just keep the one qb on the team, that way we save all that money we normally waste on a backup. We could let RealRob or one of our other guys with previous qb experience play if Wilson gets hurt.

    :sarcasm_off:


    As much as some folks hate to hear it Flynn IS a luxury for the Seahawks who is overpaying for a backup. He got his contract when the Hawks were unsettled at the QB position but now it has been settled. There are talents out there that this FO can zero in on at a better price point but we won't know until the off-season or before trade-deadlines next season. Both sides would like to see Flynn get his chance and move on sooner rather than later because Flynn is just not going to get any older or happier being warehoused in Seattle. Flynn has voiced his desire to be a starter somewhere and PC is a guy who is willing to help his players achieve success.

    Other considerations: Team chemistry--With all the youth and relatively small salary on this squad it can't be stated enough that MONEY challenges attitudes. Will Browner, Sherman and Russell Wilson continue to suppress these feelings of inequity knowing they do the all work while a certain backup QB gets up to 8x their salary for doing nothing.
    Also PC and our FO is all about getting the most out of their players, their picks and their money. They are about progress, competition and efficiency so it makes sense they will revisit Flynn's value to this team in the next year. There is much to this besides just cap space and player valuation--player objectives, attitudes and team chemistry to name a few.
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  • yup russ.. its not efficient to pay a backup qb like a starter.. only one of em can be on the field at a time so that money could even be used to overpay a free agent player at another position in the offseason to upgrade our overall talent
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  • Here's the thing: we're fine in QB salary. Most teams with a good (read, not "elite" just good) QB are paying more for their starter than we are paying Wilson and Flynn combined. That's the reality of our situation at QB.

    The OP says something like "let's look beyond the position, and look at all the FA's" I'm paraphrasing, but it's close. So, let's go ahead and look beyond the most important position on the field. Thing is, Flynn's position is just one play away from being the most important position. You can't overstate the value of a good backup QB.

    As stated, we can't renegotiate with Sherman for a while. As for the rest of the list of FA's....well they're not expensive.

    Wright might cost us a bit, but it's not going to be that much.
    Obomanu is a fringe player. He'll be upgraded in the next couple of drafts.
    Tate will get some money, but seeing as we're under the cap, we could probably extend him after this year for fairly cheap.
    Chancellor is not playing his way into a big contract as of this year.
    Thomas won't command more money than he already got for his rookie contract, meaning his cap hit for that position will stay the same.

    We're not going to have to sign a lot of guys to big contracts. By the time Browner wants money, his age will preclude him from getting a lot on the open market. Sherman will probably be our most expensive FA, along with Wilson the year after that. Both players have a couple of years to prove they need that money.

    The next question is: who's the backup if we trade Flhynn ? Someone suggested drafting a 6th or 7th round QB and developing him for a backup role. Really??? So we're going to delve into the late rounds to get a guy that will have the keys to the franchise if Wilson gets hurt ? Brilliant.
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  • Hawks46 wrote:
    The next question is: who's the backup if we trade Flhynn ? Someone suggested drafting a 6th or 7th round QB and developing him for a backup role. Really??? So we're going to delve into the late rounds to get a guy that will have the keys to the franchise if Wilson gets hurt ? Brilliant.


    Doesn't have to be the 6th or 7th... but why not a 3rd, 4th rounder... you know, like EVERY other team does with a starting QB on the roster?

    Why didn't GB just re-sign Flynn? Have a great backup QB on the roster behind Rodgers... why would we do what GB wouldn't?
    I enjoy ruining threads by making them about personal attacks and then commenting about how personal attacks make the other person's argument invalid.

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  • SonicHawk wrote:
    Hawks46 wrote:
    The next question is: who's the backup if we trade Flhynn ? Someone suggested drafting a 6th or 7th round QB and developing him for a backup role. Really??? So we're going to delve into the late rounds to get a guy that will have the keys to the franchise if Wilson gets hurt ? Brilliant.


    Doesn't have to be the 6th or 7th... but why not a 3rd, 4th rounder... you know, like EVERY other team does with a starting QB on the roster?

    Why didn't GB just re-sign Flynn? Have a great backup QB on the roster behind Rodgers... why would we do what GB wouldn't?

    Because BG was in salary cap hell and could not afford him, he wanted to be a starter (oops), and he was a free agent. 2 of those three will not apply to us next year.

    Thing is, our front office doesn't care. If there is a good deal to be had, they will do it. If there isn't, he is our backup. Its that simple.
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