Hawk Finn wrote:He's a freaking frosh, J. A&M isn't even in the discussion without this kid. That said, you'll get no argument from me on Lee's talent.
Carmon1274 wrote:He had 3 picks and 0 TD against LSU and don't know much about college football heisman stuff but why didn't geno smith get invited ?
kearly wrote:I'm glad Manziel won from that group. Mariota should have been nominated though. It makes no sense for Klein to be a finalist and not Mariota. It's one of the lame things about any awards process. If not for an overtime loss to a very tough Stanford team, Oregon is #1 and Mariota is almost certainly a finalist (and maybe the winner) in that scenario.
Also, Braxton Miller was snubbed horribly as well. Should mention that too. It's kind of insulting that some of the best Heisman candidates in the country were not even finalists, which is even worse since they only had 3 options this year instead of the usual 5-6.
SharkHawk wrote:Compare Manziel's numbers to every other Heisman winning QB out of the SEC over the years. He beats them pretty badly in a few key areas, and he did that as a FRESHMAN. This wasn't like he stepped into a juggernaut of a team either. A&M is always up and down, and he came in and got progressively better as the year went on, just as RG3 did last year. You can't overlook what he did. There probably isn't a team I dislike more than Texas A&M, but I can't deny that this kid was a one man show. He didn't have the support staff that guys like Mariota had, or the coaching, or talent surrounding him. This was supposed to be a very down year for them, and he came out and lit it up. He's a real phenom and as cool of a freshman as I've seen in quite some time, at a much more difficult position to play than WR or RB.
SEC FAN wrote:Cool, I'm glad he won it. I think I got too wrapped up in the Te'o story. I didn't watch the show but did they bring up Johnny Footballs crappy game against LSU?
SeatownJay wrote:If JSeahawks had his way the three players invited to NYC would've been Mariota, Barner, and Lyerla.
JSeahawks wrote:Manziel vs Mariota
First of all let me make it very clear that i'm not saying Mariota should have won the Heisman, i wouldnt have even put him in my top 5 if I had a vote. I'm just saying that he's a better QB.
Manziel had 88 more pass attempts then Mariota. But Mariota had 6 more TD's (30 to 24). Mariota had a 5:1 Td/Int ratio while Manziel's was 3:1. Mariota had a slightly higher completion percentage while Manziel had a slightly higher average yards per completion. Mariota's QB rating was 10 points higher.
Manziel had 96 more rushing attempts then Mariota. But Mariota averaged 7.04 on his rush attempts while Manziel averaged 6.46. Manziel did have a huge advantage in rushing Tds: 19 to 4.
I would argue that Manziel had a much better offensive line and slightly better receiving core. Mariota had the advantage of a much better running game (which is why he had so many fewer rushing tds) and better overall offensive system.
It seems clear to me that the only reason Manziel had better numbers is because he had greatly more opportunity.
Mariota was the victim of his own success. He, and his teammates were so good in the first half of games that he didnt get the chance to build up stats in the 2nd halves on many occasions.
I would also argue that Mariota makes his teammates better by sticking with the play and trusting the play and only takes off as a last option, rather then Manziel who takes off at the first sign of trouble and does the rest on his own. Mariota is Russell Wilson, Manziel is a young Michael Vick. Both great and dynamic players but which would you rather have running your team?
One final stat. Against top 25 opponents Mariota threw for 12 td's and 3 interceptions with a record of 4-1. Against top 25 opponents Manziel had 5 td's and 4 int's with a 2-2 record.
And a question for Kearly, every time you talk about Mariota you mention questionable decision making, can you point to an example? (not arguiing, just trying to have a friendly debate and trying to understand).
p.s. I promise this will be my last Mariota post until next season, cuz i'm even annoying myself with them.
SEC FAN wrote:JSeahawks wrote:Manziel vs Mariota
First of all let me make it very clear that i'm not saying Mariota should have won the Heisman, i wouldnt have even put him in my top 5 if I had a vote. I'm just saying that he's a better QB.
Manziel had 88 more pass attempts then Mariota. But Mariota had 6 more TD's (30 to 24). Mariota had a 5:1 Td/Int ratio while Manziel's was 3:1. Mariota had a slightly higher completion percentage while Manziel had a slightly higher average yards per completion. Mariota's QB rating was 10 points higher.
Manziel had 96 more rushing attempts then Mariota. But Mariota averaged 7.04 on his rush attempts while Manziel averaged 6.46. Manziel did have a huge advantage in rushing Tds: 19 to 4.
I would argue that Manziel had a much better offensive line and slightly better receiving core. Mariota had the advantage of a much better running game (which is why he had so many fewer rushing tds) and better overall offensive system.
It seems clear to me that the only reason Manziel had better numbers is because he had greatly more opportunity.
Mariota was the victim of his own success. He, and his teammates were so good in the first half of games that he didnt get the chance to build up stats in the 2nd halves on many occasions.
I would also argue that Mariota makes his teammates better by sticking with the play and trusting the play and only takes off as a last option, rather then Manziel who takes off at the first sign of trouble and does the rest on his own. Mariota is Russell Wilson, Manziel is a young Michael Vick. Both great and dynamic players but which would you rather have running your team?
One final stat. Against top 25 opponents Mariota threw for 12 td's and 3 interceptions with a record of 4-1. Against top 25 opponents Manziel had 5 td's and 4 int's with a 2-2 record.
And a question for Kearly, every time you talk about Mariota you mention questionable decision making, can you point to an example? (not arguiing, just trying to have a friendly debate and trying to understand).
p.s. I promise this will be my last Mariota post until next season, cuz i'm even annoying myself with them.
J don't make me do it. I keep thinking of that song by James Ingram...I don't have the heart to hurt you, its the last thing I want to do. I did some research before you brought this up but I'll just give you the short version without the stats and just off memory. Look at who Manziel has as a supporting cast, look at the defenses in the SEC (If my memory serves the majority in the Pac-12 give up over 100/150 plus more yards), look at how Mariota did against top defenses (Stanford), and don't make light of Manziels rushing TD's (he destroys Mariota and the rushing yards per attempt is negligible since once you cross the TD plain they stop counting rushing yards) . I'll give you 2 more that are objectionable but I believe to be true. Oregon plays late at night out here sometimes and they didn't have many sexy games due to being so much better than their opponents. The other is that I think the prevailing opinion is that Oregon is loaded with talent on offense and they run a gimmick offense (Basically Mariota isn't doing anything amazing he is just doing what Oregon QB's do). I believe they do have great talent on offense but I don't think its a gimmick offense myself; I think its a revolutionary offense like the west coast offense was in the 80's. But thats just the general opinion I see on this coast. I like Mariota and I studied him and his Hawaiian roots. I do like him and he may just win a Heisman.
I have to ask though, does it bother you that Manziel de-committed from Oregon?
sturg78 wrote:What about the two games he lost, where those not important? Mariota stepped up big in a game as well:usc
JSeahawks wrote:I promised myself i wasnt going to make any more posts about mariota. But man, i think some of you guys are just swallowing up the ESPN hype hook, line and sinker. Killing Mariota for having a bad game against Stanford (which he definatly did) but not even mentioning Manziel's far worse game against LSU. Kearly, I think youre one of the smartest guys on this board but I think yo'ure insane when it comes to evaluating Oregon QB's (i know you like Mariota, but that statement "Mariota wouldnt do anything at A&M" got me a little hot, haha). And its not like A&M is some rinky dink little team with no talent, Manziel has quite possibly the 2nd best o'line in the country behind Alabama. Some of you are making it seem like Manziel is leading St. Mary's for the Blind to wins or something. Get mariota behind that line to throw the ball 35 times a game like Manziel does and he'd be putting up insane numbers.
Whatever though, its splitting hairs either way, they're both already great college QB's as freshman. It will be fun to see what they do in the years to come.
JSeahawks wrote:Can't hold Marquise Lee's jock as a football player.
But hey, at least he's thanking The 12th man.
If A&M was still in the Big 12 rather then the SEC I dont think Manziel would have even been invited to the ceremony. And in case you cant tell... yes, i'm a little bit bitter about him winning (even though i've known since the Alabama game that he would.)
It is currently Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:13 pm
Return to [ THE NCAA FOOTBALL & PRO DRAFT FORUM ]