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 Post subject: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:48 pm 
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I'm really hoping we got another diamond in the rough with this guy. Any news whatsoever on the situation?

EDIT: Read a FG article that said PC raved about Smith in his presser. Is this true?


Last edited by hawksfan515 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:57 pm 
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In PC's press conference he said he was nipping at Hills heels. He also said that Hill was getting better. I'd like to see Smith get another chance


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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:09 pm 
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Happypuppy wrote:
In PC's press conference he said he was nipping at Hills heels. He also said that Hill was getting better. I'd like to see Smith get another chance


Thanks man this is helpful! I'm hoping Smith takes over, is an athletic freak with tons of upside!


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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:01 pm 
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I would not be bothered to see more Malcolm.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:05 pm 
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I would not be upset if he did.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:31 am 
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Happypuppy wrote:
In PC's press conference he said he was nipping at Hills heels. He also said that Hill was getting better. I'd like to see Smith get another chance


To me, from the 3 years of listening to PC talk, that means Smith is on his way to starting unless Hill performs a miracle.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:36 am 
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Throwdown wrote:
Happypuppy wrote:
In PC's press conference he said he was nipping at Hills heels. He also said that Hill was getting better. I'd like to see Smith get another chance


To me, from the 3 years of listening to PC talk, that means Smith is on his way to starting unless Hill performs a miracle.


What I heard in PC's presser yesterday, was that Hill is still recovering from his ankle. He liked what he saw out of Malcolm and when asked if there was a competition, he said of course. Sounded to me more like Pete just stating his mantra of Always Compete.

The only thing that worries me about Smith isn't his athleticism, it's his control. Right now, we have some amazing athletes on our team. What gets us in trouble is when these amazing athletes start pushing themselves to make plays instead of having the restraint to stick to their assignment. Sometimes young guys like to go for the ball, and wily vets can use this to pull them from their assigned area, opening up big plays.

I'm not against either Hill or Smith starting. I believe in our defensive philosophy and think that between Pete and Gus, they'll always put the best available player on the field.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:42 am 
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kidhawk wrote:
Throwdown wrote:
Happypuppy wrote:
In PC's press conference he said he was nipping at Hills heels. He also said that Hill was getting better. I'd like to see Smith get another chance


To me, from the 3 years of listening to PC talk, that means Smith is on his way to starting unless Hill performs a miracle.


What I heard in PC's presser yesterday, was that Hill is still recovering from his ankle. He liked what he saw out of Malcolm and when asked if there was a competition, he said of course. Sounded to me more like Pete just stating his mantra of Always Compete.

The only thing that worries me about Smith isn't his athleticism, it's his control. Right now, we have some amazing athletes on our team. What gets us in trouble is when these amazing athletes start pushing themselves to make plays instead of having the restraint to stick to their assignment. Sometimes young guys like to go for the ball, and wily vets can use this to pull them from their assigned area, opening up big plays.

I'm not against either Hill or Smith starting. I believe in our defensive philosophy and think that between Pete and Gus, they'll always put the best available player on the field.


Then again the 'wily-vet' was making the same type of mistakes you address above. PC said after the Miami game that guys were trying too much and most of that was from Vets who should know better. To me Hill is the weakest link of our LBers. I would love to see Smith get another shot-- He made some great plays and solid tackles against the Bears.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:49 am 
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jlwaters1 wrote:
Then again the 'wily-vet' was making the same type of mistakes you address above. PC said after the Miami game that guys were trying too much and most of that was from Vets who should know better. To me Hill is the weakest link of our LBers. I would love to see Smith get another shot-- He made some great plays and solid tackles against the Bears.


If you think Hill is the weak link, you really haven't watched Wagner play. I LOVE this kid, but he has been a liability in quite a few games to both the pass and the run games. As middle linebacker, he's mostly responsible to cover on a lot of those quick over the middle passes teams are so successful on, and in the Niners game, he got burned being out of position several times on big Gore runs.

I am not calling for a replacement for him, just trying to show where the fallacy lies. Watching our linebackers, Hill is not the weakest link. Wagner has more upside for sure, but he's still learning and has made the most mistakes so far this year. Hill does need to sit until his ankle has healed sufficiently, and I'm certain Smith will be just fine during that span, and may earn the starting job before next season. I also wouldn't count Hill out. Each year, Hill is counted out by the fans, only to get another contract from the team.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:56 am 
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I hate the circumstances by which we are having to test our depth, but given that we are this late into the season, with playoff hopes resting firmly within our own hands, and a very real possibility to win out and clinch a 1st round bye, is there a better way to learn what our team is truly capable of?

I give us about 25% odds of winning out with the Niners losing against NE.

I suspect that with Browner out, our defense will not be much worse off. At OLB, the position is probably better served by youth at this point, and Malcom seems to be rising to the occasion. Outside linebackers are arguably the most fungible position on any defense, so the loss of Hill for a few weeks, or even relegating him to backup, does not scare me. In fact, we might find that production at the position improves as it did when we dumped Curry for KJ. Hill has a long injury history and is entering the twilight of his career.

The depth at CB intrigues me most, to be certain. It's no mistake that we have taken guys like Browner and Sherman, transforming them into superstars. Sure, they have the athletic ability and size we were looking for, but it was our coaching staff who helped develop that talent. Our late round picks have been based almost entirely on development potential and in that department we are nearly unmatched. I have little doubt that guys like Jeremy Lane and Byron Maxwell will rise to the occasion, possibly playing better than the lower 50 percentile in the NFL. Walter Thurmond looked quite solid last weekend, so here's to hoping he can stay healthy.

Will we notice the absence of Richard Sherman and Brandon Browner? Yes, quite likely. There are certain things we do with those two that we can't do with the smaller guys. Our defense will have to adjust, but I don't think the drop off will be that bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:42 am 
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SmokinHawk wrote:
I hate the circumstances by which we are having to test our depth, but given that we are this late into the season, with playoff hopes resting firmly within our own hands, and a very real possibility to win out and clinch a 1st round bye, is there a better way to learn what our team is truly capable of?

I give us about 25% odds of winning out with the Niners losing against NE.

I suspect that with Browner out, our defense will not be much worse off. At OLB, the position is probably better served by youth at this point, and Malcom seems to be rising to the occasion. Outside linebackers are arguably the most fungible position on any defense, so the loss of Hill for a few weeks, or even relegating him to backup, does not scare me. In fact, we might find that production at the position improves as it did when we dumped Curry for KJ. Hill has a long injury history and is entering the twilight of his career.

The depth at CB intrigues me most, to be certain. It's no mistake that we have taken guys like Browner and Sherman, transforming them into superstars. Sure, they have the athletic ability and size we were looking for, but it was our coaching staff who helped develop that talent. Our late round picks have been based almost entirely on development potential and in that department we are nearly unmatched. I have little doubt that guys like Jeremy Lane and Byron Maxwell will rise to the occasion, possibly playing better than the lower 50 percentile in the NFL. Walter Thurmond looked quite solid last weekend, so here's to hoping he can stay healthy.

Will we notice the absence of Richard Sherman and Brandon Browner? Yes, quite likely. There are certain things we do with those two that we can't do with the smaller guys. Our defense will have to adjust, but I don't think the drop off will be that bad.


Last year, when Tru went down and Thurmond stepped in, I thought "hey, I like this kid, we'll be ok". Then he went down too and I thought "oh crap". Then this kid Sherman steps up and has been LIGHTS OUT ever since. I still think Thurmond has the abilities to be a very good starting corner in this league. We may not miss Browner as much as you think. I think where we start to wonder a little more is if Sherman gets suspended while Browner is suspended, then we have to bring in someone else as well as Thurmond. This makes for a less than certain scenario.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:53 am 
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wagner has had a ton of mistakes this year no question, but i still think his overall play is much better than Hill's... if any LB is the weak link IMO it's hill...

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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:57 am 
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hawker84 wrote:
wagner has had a ton of mistakes this year no question, but i still think his overall play is much better than Hill's... if any LB is the weak link IMO it's hill...


agree to disagree I guess.

I do believe that Wagner has a much higher upside for us. I'm just going off the games played, and in those, I felt that Hill has made fewer mistakes. Obviously Wagner has made more plays, but a MLB should make more plays than an OLB, that's the nature of the game.

Overall, I am ok with any of our top 4 guys being on the field, but I still think we need more depth there this offseason, and hopefully we address this position a little stronger next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:04 pm 
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As much crap as he gets around here lately, I think a healthy Leroy is our best option right now. That being said, I definitely think Malcolm will eventually take his place. He has played well with what little opportunity he's had.

Also, not excusing his mistakes, but doesn't Wagner have the 2nd highest number of tackles in the league or something crazy? Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

EDIT: He's tied for 10th in the league.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... onType=REG

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Last edited by razgriz737 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:13 pm 
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razgriz737 wrote:
As much crap as he gets around here lately, I think a healthy Leroy is our best option right now. That being said, I definitely think Malcolm will eventually take his place. He has played well with what little opportunity he's had.

Also, not excusing his mistakes, but doesn't Wagner have the 2nd highest number of tackles in the league or something crazy? Maybe I'm thinking of something else.


I don't know about the league, but he does lead our team with just over 100 tackles I think Kam is second with around 80. These two positions are supposed to be huge in tackles though, so it's not surprising. As I said in an earlier post, as the MLB, Wagner has had a lot of plays he was responsible for, which means he's not only led in mistakes, but also in plays made. Not knocking the guy, and I have no doubt that he's a solid contributor. All I was saying is that he has also made a good number of mistakes. I expect this from a rookie MLB and personally feel he's going to continue to learn and that this rookie year experience will make him that much better in the years to come.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:18 pm 
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kidhawk wrote:
razgriz737 wrote:
As much crap as he gets around here lately, I think a healthy Leroy is our best option right now. That being said, I definitely think Malcolm will eventually take his place. He has played well with what little opportunity he's had.

Also, not excusing his mistakes, but doesn't Wagner have the 2nd highest number of tackles in the league or something crazy? Maybe I'm thinking of something else.


I don't know about the league, but he does lead our team with just over 100 tackles I think Kam is second with around 80. These two positions are supposed to be huge in tackles though, so it's not surprising. As I said in an earlier post, as the MLB, Wagner has had a lot of plays he was responsible for, which means he's not only led in mistakes, but also in plays made. Not knocking the guy, and I have no doubt that he's a solid contributor. All I was saying is that he has also made a good number of mistakes. I expect this from a rookie MLB and personally feel he's going to continue to learn and that this rookie year experience will make him that much better in the years to come.

Agreed.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:20 pm 
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kidhawk wrote:
hawker84 wrote:
wagner has had a ton of mistakes this year no question, but i still think his overall play is much better than Hill's... if any LB is the weak link IMO it's hill...


agree to disagree I guess.

I do believe that Wagner has a much higher upside for us. I'm just going off the games played, and in those, I felt that Hill has made fewer mistakes. Obviously Wagner has made more plays, but a MLB should make more plays than an OLB, that's the nature of the game.

Overall, I am ok with any of our top 4 guys being on the field, but I still think we need more depth there this offseason, and hopefully we address this position a little stronger next year.


I think Wagner has been pretty good. Former Hawks linebacker Dave Wyman called Wagner his Hawks defensive player of the year to this point on the radio the other day.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Malcolm Smith starting again in place of Leroy?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:24 pm 
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SeaTown81 wrote:
kidhawk wrote:
hawker84 wrote:
wagner has had a ton of mistakes this year no question, but i still think his overall play is much better than Hill's... if any LB is the weak link IMO it's hill...


agree to disagree I guess.

I do believe that Wagner has a much higher upside for us. I'm just going off the games played, and in those, I felt that Hill has made fewer mistakes. Obviously Wagner has made more plays, but a MLB should make more plays than an OLB, that's the nature of the game.

Overall, I am ok with any of our top 4 guys being on the field, but I still think we need more depth there this offseason, and hopefully we address this position a little stronger next year.


I think Wagner has been pretty good. Former Hawks linebacker Dave Wyman called Wagner his Hawks defensive player of the year to this point on the radio the other day.

Off topic, but I love hearing what Dave Wyman has to say.

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