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 Post subject: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:37 am 
* Capt'n Dom *
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Nice little breakdown of the read option the Hawks used against the Bears in overtime.

Good stuff right here.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Film-Study-Seahawks-Read-Option-vs-Bears.html

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:44 am 
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Smart play calling from Seattle that tested the eye discipline of Lovie Smith’s defense and ultimately set up the winning TD pass.


Wait....I thought Bevell sucked and needs to be replaced? I'm so confused now that he's actually being called 'smart' by someone that may actually know what he's talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:46 am 
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Press conferences showed that they didn't go so far towards the read option until Wilson grabbed Bevell and said, "hey, do that read option thing."

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:58 am 
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PGunning101 wrote:
Press conferences showed that they didn't go so far towards the read option until Wilson grabbed Bevell and said, "hey, do that read option thing."


Bevel wil be gone by the end of the season. 'Maker my words!'


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:18 am 
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I noticed on that and on the Tate TD that Miller has had some key blocks. I know he has a hefty contract and is not putting goddy numbers, between his couple of clutch catches (1 hander TD a few weeks back and the 4th down conversion against Chi) and his down field blocking, I hope we keep him.


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:47 am 
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On the read-option, does Wilson somehow signal the running back that he will either hand the ball to him or keep it? OR, does the RB himself see what Wilson sees and figures it out himself? OR, does the RB just not clutch the ball very tightly initially, allowing Wilson to withdraw it if he chooses? If these seem like simple questions, it's because,..well,..I'm a simpleton.


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:34 am 
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The cool part is Wilson used it so well. On Sunday he proved me so WRONG.

When he passed out of it I was like "NO" and then it would be a completion for a good gain, one of them was the winning score.

Wilson is just so aware, quick and accurate. For a while there it looked like the Oregon Ducks offense.

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:40 am 
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Jazzhawk wrote:
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Smart play calling from Seattle that tested the eye discipline of Lovie Smith’s defense and ultimately set up the winning TD pass.


Wait....I thought Bevell sucked and needs to be replaced? I'm so confused now that he's actually being called 'smart' by someone that may actually know what he's talking about.



Was watching NFL Turning Point on NBC with Dan "The Hair" Patrick...

Wilson said in interview, "I kept telling coaches it was open"

what that tells me is he had to keep pounding to Bevell it was there...and he was too inept to notice.

If not, wouldnt he have said "Darrell was great! He kept calling the read option and I made some good reads!"


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:43 am 
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i don't think anyone thinks bevell is not smart.. but his play calling was and still can be a bit predictable, and the inability he seemed to have in regards to making the necessary adjustments was and is a bit frustrating at times.. he seems to be getting better as the season unwinds, whether that's on him or it's Caroll loosening the reigns, either way it's getting better.

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:52 am 
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Also illustrates how well our offensive line is doing on the second level. These are plays that require a lot of coordination, plus split-second decision-making for Wilson and Lynch.

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:06 am 
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As much as I get pi**ed about Bevell, I think he called a pretty good game on Sunday.

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:07 am 
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Mandu wrote:
On the read-option, does Wilson somehow signal the running back that he will either hand the ball to him or keep it? OR, does the RB himself see what Wilson sees and figures it out himself? OR, does the RB just not clutch the ball very tightly initially, allowing Wilson to withdraw it if he chooses? If these seem like simple questions, it's because,..well,..I'm a simpleton.


The RB assumes he is getting it and tries to take it to from the QB, but the QB needs to either jam it in his gut or be strong with his hands and rip it out of there before the RB is past the mesh point.

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:08 am 
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SoulfishHawk wrote:
As much as I get pi**ed about Bevell, I think he called a pretty good game on Sunday.

I thought he was horrible the first 3 qtrs. Started getting more creative in the 4th and OT tho.


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:20 am 
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As much as I normally enjoy your guys' insites, the Bevell thing really bugs me.

Has it occurred to you guys that bevell is trying to be predictable? We are a big physical team with the mentality that we can line up 1 on 1 and beat you. By being predictable, you then also make the defense predictable. When the defense is predictable at the end of the game, its easier to score.

What you guys keep saying is a negative thing (your ability to predict the play) is exactly what he wants. Offensive playcalling, especially at this level is much more complex then you guys keep referring to it as.

If you don't believe me chart his play selection in the new england game.


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:35 am 
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AbsolutNET wrote:
Mandu wrote:
On the read-option, does Wilson somehow signal the running back that he will either hand the ball to him or keep it? OR, does the RB himself see what Wilson sees and figures it out himself? OR, does the RB just not clutch the ball very tightly initially, allowing Wilson to withdraw it if he chooses? If these seem like simple questions, it's because,..well,..I'm a simpleton.


The RB assumes he is getting it and tries to take it to from the QB, but the QB needs to either jam it in his gut or be strong with his hands and rip it out of there before the RB is past the mesh point.



Thanks. I don't know if anyone else noticed it, but on one play last Sunday, it appeared to me that Wilson tried to pull the ball back from Lynch, but the Beast kept it. I guess that's going to happen sometimes.


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:49 am 
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Mandu wrote:
AbsolutNET wrote:
Mandu wrote:
On the read-option, does Wilson somehow signal the running back that he will either hand the ball to him or keep it? OR, does the RB himself see what Wilson sees and figures it out himself? OR, does the RB just not clutch the ball very tightly initially, allowing Wilson to withdraw it if he chooses? If these seem like simple questions, it's because,..well,..I'm a simpleton.


The RB assumes he is getting it and tries to take it to from the QB, but the QB needs to either jam it in his gut or be strong with his hands and rip it out of there before the RB is past the mesh point.



Thanks. I don't know if anyone else noticed it, but on one play last Sunday, it appeared to me that Wilson tried to pull the ball back from Lynch, but the Beast kept it. I guess that's going to happen sometimes.


There was one play, probably the same, where Wilson didn't make his decision in time and Marshawn got hit at the line. If Wilson would have pulled it, he would have ran for a while. When you see that, its usually the QB hesitating.

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:05 am 
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AbsolutNET wrote:
There was one play, probably the same, where Wilson didn't make his decision in time and Marshawn got hit at the line. If Wilson would have pulled it, he would have ran for a while. When you see that, its usually the QB hesitating.


:th2thumbs: Yep, it was the same play. It was WIDE open to the left I believe.

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:14 am 
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I'm not a Bevell fan one bit, I just don't think the game plan was nearly as bad as some of the other games. Not even close.

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:16 am 
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hidn wrote:
As much as I normally enjoy your guys' insites, the Bevell thing really bugs me.

Has it occurred to you guys that bevell is trying to be predictable? We are a big physical team with the mentality that we can line up 1 on 1 and beat you. By being predictable, you then also make the defense predictable. When the defense is predictable at the end of the game, its easier to score.

What you guys keep saying is a negative thing (your ability to predict the play) is exactly what he wants. Offensive playcalling, especially at this level is much more complex then you guys keep referring to it as.

If you don't believe me chart his play selection in the new england game.


This has worked perfectly. Instead of being unpredicatable for 3 1/2 quarters and pull away with big wins we have made sure that by staying predictable we have a close game in the last couple of minutes and come down to a win or loose drive where we have been unpredictable........ can't believe I didn't understand this tactic before now it makes perfect sense!
:sarcasm_off:

of course Miami and Detroit ended up having the ball last.........


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:52 am 
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so so glad to see this wrinkle added to the offense

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:33 am 
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AbsolutNET wrote:
Mandu wrote:
On the read-option, does Wilson somehow signal the running back that he will either hand the ball to him or keep it? OR, does the RB himself see what Wilson sees and figures it out himself? OR, does the RB just not clutch the ball very tightly initially, allowing Wilson to withdraw it if he chooses? If these seem like simple questions, it's because,..well,..I'm a simpleton.


The RB assumes he is getting it and tries to take it to from the QB, but the QB needs to either jam it in his gut or be strong with his hands and rip it out of there before the RB is past the mesh point.


Sometiems hilarity happens:


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:33 am 
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Mandu wrote:
On the read-option, does Wilson somehow signal the running back that he will either hand the ball to him or keep it? OR, does the RB himself see what Wilson sees and figures it out himself? OR, does the RB just not clutch the ball very tightly initially, allowing Wilson to withdraw it if he chooses? If these seem like simple questions, it's because,..well,..I'm a simpleton.


The QB controls the ball the entire way. Either he gives it to Lynch or he keeps it. That's why it's kind of risky. You see in college fumbles occuring because the RB thinks the QB will keep in only to let go of the ball and it falls on the ground.

Infact on the winning OT drive there appeared to be some confusion where Lynch takes the ball and it appears that Wilson wanted to keep it. Good thing there wasn't a fumble on that play.


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:43 am 
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Bevell is just a puppet (RW doesn't need him anyway, apparently) - kind of like Peyton Manning's OC - just there because he has to be.


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:33 pm 
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If anyone's curious, Bevell talks about it in this press conference:
http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/v ... 8758f44ebb

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:07 pm 
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So now when the offense does well its not because of the offensive coordinator, its because Russell Wilson is so great that he's telling Bevell what to do? Who put in the read option in the first place? Oh, that's right, the offensive coordinator.

The lengths some of you guys go to in order to stick to your narrative, in this case, that Bevell sucks, is hilarious.

The predictability, my guess, is largely coming from Pete Carroll. If you look at the scheme, the overall scheme that Bevell runs, its pretty aggressive, layered and ahead of what a lot of teams are doing. Those playcalls against the Dolphins were logical conservative plays dictated by a conservative coach not wanting to leave the Dolphins any time if the Seahawks were to score.

The packaged plays, read options, bubble screens, personnel groupings, multiple formations, is all, in my opinion, creative and for me, enjoyable to watch. Do I agree with every play call? No. But I've been reading this board for 12 years now, and the majority of this board has crucified the playcaller each and every season. Knapp, Bates, Bevell, Holmgren, all were chastised as "predictable". So, when you critcize Bevell, remember, that you all were criticizing Holmgren, widely considered by people in the NFL as one of the greatest offensive minds and best playcallers in NFL history.

Now you may all commence in labeling me a "Bevell apologist" so we can fit this thread into the normative behavior around here.


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:15 pm 
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Very nice breakdown there.

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:55 pm 
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seahawk2k -- there is a direct quote from RW that I posted the day after the game that stated something along the lines of the following (don't have the direct quote right here)

I kept telling the coaches that the read option was wide open and they agreed with me.

I am not saying the coaches weren't involved but you read that and tell me that RW didn't lobby for the team to move in that direction during the game........


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:31 pm 
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we have normative behavior around here? huh -


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:41 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
seahawk2k -- there is a direct quote from RW that I posted the day after the game that stated something along the lines of the following (don't have the direct quote right here)

I kept telling the coaches that the read option was wide open and they agreed with me.

I am not saying the coaches weren't involved but you read that and tell me that RW didn't lobby for the team to move in that direction during the game........


You mean that players give coaches input on what they are seeing out on the field? Mind boggling.

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:56 pm 
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Jazzhawk wrote:
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Smart play calling from Seattle that tested the eye discipline of Lovie Smith’s defense and ultimately set up the winning TD pass.


Wait....I thought Bevell sucked and needs to be replaced? I'm so confused now that he's actually being called 'smart' by someone that may actually know what he's talking about.



Not sure if Bevell deserves all the credit for the read option working so well vs the Bears. Wilson mentioned in post game interviews that this was something he saw in the defense, and told the coaches about. Which really makes Wilson that much more impressive, and not so much Bevell.


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:59 pm 
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Tech Worlds wrote:
mikeak wrote:
seahawk2k -- there is a direct quote from RW that I posted the day after the game that stated something along the lines of the following (don't have the direct quote right here)

I kept telling the coaches that the read option was wide open and they agreed with me.

I am not saying the coaches weren't involved but you read that and tell me that RW didn't lobby for the team to move in that direction during the game........


You mean that players give coaches input on what they are seeing out on the field? Mind boggling.


How many players do you really think DURING the game tell the coaches what plays to call? I think besides the qb's none.... I think WR's will tell a qb if htey feel they can beat a guy inside / outside etc but I don't think they tell the coaches much DURING the game.

The way the quote was it was clear RW saw it and pushed for it to get to keep playing it then they went with the pass on the TD as a change-up


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:01 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
Tech Worlds wrote:
mikeak wrote:
seahawk2k -- there is a direct quote from RW that I posted the day after the game that stated something along the lines of the following (don't have the direct quote right here)

I kept telling the coaches that the read option was wide open and they agreed with me.

I am not saying the coaches weren't involved but you read that and tell me that RW didn't lobby for the team to move in that direction during the game........


You mean that players give coaches input on what they are seeing out on the field? Mind boggling.


How many players do you really think DURING the game tell the coaches what plays to call? I think besides the qb's none.... I think WR's will tell a qb if htey feel they can beat a guy inside / outside etc but I don't think they tell the coaches much DURING the game.

The way the quote was it was clear RW saw it and pushed for it to get to keep playing it then they went with the pass on the TD as a change-up


INCORRECT

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:37 pm 
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HawksFTW wrote:
AbsolutNET wrote:
There was one play, probably the same, where Wilson didn't make his decision in time and Marshawn got hit at the line. If Wilson would have pulled it, he would have ran for a while. When you see that, its usually the QB hesitating.


:th2thumbs: Yep, it was the same play. It was WIDE open to the left I believe.


Actually Russ didn't make a mistake on that play. Fieldgulls broke the OT down, and they noted that on this play Wilson looked very frustrated for a second, and this was because (as it apt to happen on the option) Lynch pulled the ball away from Wilson. Wilson then managed to pull together the even keeled demeanor though, and looked to the sideline for the next play.


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:10 pm 
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Pretty soon, Bevell will be unpredictable too much, which will then become predictable. Teams will get tape of our unpredictacality (I think I made a word !), and we will get buried in the playoffs. Everyone will start to expect the unexpected, leading Bevell to get predictable again, which would then be a surprise and be unpredictable !

Predictably, Bevell won't make any of the fans happy, and we be fired.


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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:26 pm 
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Hawks46 wrote:
Pretty soon, Bevell will be unpredictable too much, which will then become predictable. Teams will get tape of our unpredictacality (I think I made a word !), and we will get buried in the playoffs. Everyone will start to expect the unexpected, leading Bevell to get predictable again, which would then be a surprise and be unpredictable !

Predictably, Bevell won't make any of the fans happy, and we be fired.

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 Post subject: Re: Read option breakdown
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:05 am 
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hawksfan515 wrote:
HawksFTW wrote:
AbsolutNET wrote:
There was one play, probably the same, where Wilson didn't make his decision in time and Marshawn got hit at the line. If Wilson would have pulled it, he would have ran for a while. When you see that, its usually the QB hesitating.


:th2thumbs: Yep, it was the same play. It was WIDE open to the left I believe.


Actually Russ didn't make a mistake on that play. Fieldgulls broke the OT down, and they noted that on this play Wilson looked very frustrated for a second, and this was because (as it apt to happen on the option) Lynch pulled the ball away from Wilson. Wilson then managed to pull together the even keeled demeanor though, and looked to the sideline for the next play.


That means the QB didnt make a decision or made the wrong read. Its up to the QB to give the RB the ball and get his hands off the ball, or rip it out of his gut. The QB either gives it, or takes it - the RB doesnt make the decision. But, I guess if Wilson looked frustrated for a second, that's what counts.

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