Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ    Contact Us  Your donations are greatly appreciated! Donate  Chat Room

Board index » SEAHAWKS.NET - THE VOICE OF THE 12TH MAN » [ THE OFFICIAL NET NATION FAN FORUM ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:43 am 
* Master Chief *
* Master Chief *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:19 am
Posts: 7407
Location: CVN-68
Did not see that coming. I thought we woud be forcing a lot more this season. We have yet to score a single point on defense, either (people are saying the Cowboys game, but that was special teams points).

I have to think the lack of pass rush (same old story) has a lot to do with it.

To put it into persepctive, in our defensive glory years we once had 60+ turnovers in a season -- and that was before the league was a "passing league".

I'm hoping we start to get them in bunches as we head towards the playoffs.

_________________
@SeahawkGreg

Image

"I will be thrilled with 10 wins.... If we win 14 games, I will tattoo my nuts green and blue!" --13thMan


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:44 am 
* NET E-Knight *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:06 am
Posts: 4157
FlyingGreg wrote:
Did not see that coming. I thought we woud be forcing a lot more this season. We have yet to score a single point on defense, either (people are saying the Cowboys game, but that was special teams points).


False. The blocked punt in the Cowboys game WAS a defensive TD. The ball never crossed the line of scrimmage.

_________________
cboom wrote:
Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:47 am 
NET Veteran
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 2:09 pm
Posts: 3408
Even though it would be nice to force more turnovers, I think this bodes well for our future. We are depending more on good solid D (not as much lately but still good) and less on turnovers, which can be fluky and unrepeatable


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:48 am 
* Master Chief *
* Master Chief *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:19 am
Posts: 7407
Location: CVN-68
HawksFTW wrote:
FlyingGreg wrote:
Did not see that coming. I thought we woud be forcing a lot more this season. We have yet to score a single point on defense, either (people are saying the Cowboys game, but that was special teams points).


False. The blocked punt in the Cowboys game WAS a defensive TD. The ball never crossed the line of scrimmage.


Truth - we will agree to disagree - the play occurred on a punt, which is a special teams evolution. The core defense did not score the points.

The point stands. No fumble return or interception return for a score this season. None of our 11 defensive starters have scored. No way to sugar coat or explain it away. And even if I accepted the Cowboys angle, that was 11 games ago so it's obviously an issue.

_________________
@SeahawkGreg

Image

"I will be thrilled with 10 wins.... If we win 14 games, I will tattoo my nuts green and blue!" --13thMan


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:50 am 
* NET E-Knight *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:06 am
Posts: 4157
FlyingGreg wrote:
HawksFTW wrote:
FlyingGreg wrote:
Did not see that coming. I thought we woud be forcing a lot more this season. We have yet to score a single point on defense, either (people are saying the Cowboys game, but that was special teams points).


False. The blocked punt in the Cowboys game WAS a defensive TD. The ball never crossed the line of scrimmage.


Truth - we will agree to disagree - the play occurred on a punt, which is a special teams evolution. The core defense did not score the points.


It doesn't become a punt/special teams play until the ball has passed the line of scrimmage. The rest of your point stands.

_________________
cboom wrote:
Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:56 am 
* NET News Scoop *
* NET News Scoop *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:16 pm
Posts: 8923
It was a Special Teams play.

_________________
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:01 pm 
* Master Chief *
* Master Chief *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:19 am
Posts: 7407
Location: CVN-68
HawksFTW wrote:
It doesn't become a punt/special teams play until the ball has passed the line of scrimmage. The rest of your point stands.


:?: :roll:

Sigh...this thread is not about a silly debate that makes no sense. And our regular defensive unit is not our punt block unit, regardless. I'm not in the mood to go back and forth, away from the point, debating it. Like I said (AGAIN) - no regular defensive starter has scored, and Dallas was 11 games ago. And it's still a special teams play. :mrgreen:

This thread is about not forcing turnovers. I'm not looking for weak excuses and sugar coating to explain it.

Back to the point...

_________________
@SeahawkGreg

Image

"I will be thrilled with 10 wins.... If we win 14 games, I will tattoo my nuts green and blue!" --13thMan


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:02 pm 
* NET E-Knight *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:06 am
Posts: 4157
Jazzhawk wrote:
It was a Special Teams play.


Don't make me break out the rule book. It isn't a special teams play until the ball is KICKED beyond the line of scrimmage. It doesn't matter what formation they line up in, or who is on the field, it matters what happens to the ball. If they line up in punt formation but throw the ball, it is still considered an offensive play. There for any action that happens before the ball crossed the line of scrimmage upon being KICKED is still in the realm of offense/defense. This isn't up for interpretation based upon what players were on the field, it is part of the rules, as stated in the rule book.

_________________
cboom wrote:
Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:03 pm 
* NET E-Knight *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:06 am
Posts: 4157
FlyingGreg wrote:

Back to the point...


Notice I said the rest of your point stands?

_________________
cboom wrote:
Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:06 pm 
* Master Chief *
* Master Chief *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:19 am
Posts: 7407
Location: CVN-68
HawksFTW wrote:
FlyingGreg wrote:

Back to the point...


Notice I said the rest of your point stands?


Notice you keep derailing the thread by not offering opinions on why we are not forcing turnovers?

What ya got?

_________________
@SeahawkGreg

Image

"I will be thrilled with 10 wins.... If we win 14 games, I will tattoo my nuts green and blue!" --13thMan


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:06 pm 
NET Veteran
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:26 am
Posts: 1522
There were 22 special team players on the field, and 2 special teams plays called, and a bunch of special teams coaches brains rolling. It was a special teams play dude lol

_________________
----


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:06 pm 
NET Veteran
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:48 pm
Posts: 2269
HawksFTW wrote:
Jazzhawk wrote:
It was a Special Teams play.


Don't make me break out the rule book. It isn't a special teams play until the ball is KICKED beyond the line of scrimmage. It doesn't matter what formation they line up in, or who is on the field, it matters what happens to the ball. If they line up in punt formation but throw the ball, it is still considered an offensive play. There for any action that happens before the ball crossed the line of scrimmage upon being KICKED is still in the realm of offense/defense. This isn't up for interpretation based upon what players were on the field, it is part of the rules, as stated in the rule book.


Unfortunately your theory doesn't hold water. At least according to the STATS PAGE on SEAHAWKS.COM
Which lists our TD's as Rushing= 6, Passing = 20, Returns= 2, Defensive = 0.

http://www.seahawks.com/team/statistics.html

TOUCHDOWNS (RUSHING-PASSING-RETURNS-DEFENSIVE)

6-20-2-0

7-12-0-2


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:07 pm 
* Master Chief *
* Master Chief *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:19 am
Posts: 7407
Location: CVN-68
ensett wrote:
There were 22 special team players on the field, and 2 special teams plays called, and a bunch of special teams coaches brains rolling. It was a special teams play dude lol


Some people love the rules and stats and don't like to use common sense. I guess next we'll hear how high our DVOA is...

:sarcasm_off:

_________________
@SeahawkGreg

Image

"I will be thrilled with 10 wins.... If we win 14 games, I will tattoo my nuts green and blue!" --13thMan


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:20 pm 
* NET E-Knight *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:06 am
Posts: 4157
FlyingGreg wrote:
ensett wrote:
There were 22 special team players on the field, and 2 special teams plays called, and a bunch of special teams coaches brains rolling. It was a special teams play dude lol


Some people love the rules and stats and don't like to use common sense. I guess next we'll hear how high our DVOA is...

:sarcasm_off:


Funny. So if the backup QB throws a TD on a fake FG, is that considered a special teams play as well? Your "common sense" means little in this regard, because if you look at it that way, there is nothing more than offense or defense. Either you have the ball (offense) or you are trying to stop the guys with the ball (defense). The stipulations about special teams (which you won't even find that term in the rule book, outside of one mention) are simply a way to compartmentalize that aspect the game (kicking, fielding, etc).

So you can LOL and :sarcasm_off: all you like, my point stands. It is still a defensive play until the moment that ball is technically out of the other team's possession (eg once it passes the line of scrimmage).


As for the rest of your post, we have been close to a number of INTs and fumbles. ET has missed 5-6 this year alone. Wright missed one, Wagner had one taken away as well. Turnovers are one of the most random things in football, so it doesn't bother too much. I am more concerned with 3rd down stops, which is a much better indicator of success.

_________________
cboom wrote:
Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:28 pm 
* NET Sage *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 4:55 pm
Posts: 4306
What's the split on turnovers forced at home and away? I'm curious.

_________________
February 2, 2014... the day the dream was finally realized


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:33 pm 
* Master Chief *
* Master Chief *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:19 am
Posts: 7407
Location: CVN-68
Hasselbeck wrote:
What's the split on turnovers forced at home and away? I'm curious.


Thanks for bringing something meaningful to the discussion. I think it's actually pretty close. It just gets magnified when we play on the road because the games are close and we need that "dynamic event" sometimes to help.

Looking ahead to the playoffs, those are exactly the kind of plays you need to win on the road. The more the merrier.

_________________
@SeahawkGreg

Image

"I will be thrilled with 10 wins.... If we win 14 games, I will tattoo my nuts green and blue!" --13thMan


Last edited by FlyingGreg on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:34 pm 
NET Veteran
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:26 am
Posts: 1522
if a QB was the holder and threw a TD, itd be a special teams TD, yeah. Same way Leon returning a kick for a TD isnt an offensive TD

_________________
----


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:40 pm 
* NET E-Knight *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:06 am
Posts: 4157
ensett wrote:
if a QB was the holder and threw a TD, itd be a special teams TD, yeah. Same way Leon returning a kick for a TD isnt an offensive TD


Well, isn't this interesting. From page four of the NFL rulebook:

Quote:
Whenever a team is in possession of the ball, it is the offense, and at such time its opponent is the defense.


These are the only two designations specifically laid out in the NFL rulebook. So technically, a kick return is an offensive TD.

_________________
cboom wrote:
Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:48 pm 
* Report Button *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:08 pm
Posts: 9923
HawksFTW wrote:
ensett wrote:
if a QB was the holder and threw a TD, itd be a special teams TD, yeah. Same way Leon returning a kick for a TD isnt an offensive TD


Well, isn't this interesting. From page four of the NFL rulebook:

Quote:
Whenever a team is in possession of the ball, it is the offense, and at such time its opponent is the defense.


These are the only two designations specifically laid out in the NFL rulebook. So technically, a kick return is an offensive TD.


Ah, sweetie, you need attention?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:50 pm 
* NET E-Knight *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:06 am
Posts: 4157
pehawk wrote:
Ah, sweetie, you need attention?


:roll: After reading some of your posts in other forums these past few days, this is hilarious coming from you. Troll harder pe.

_________________
cboom wrote:
Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:51 pm 
*SILVER SUPPORTER*
*SILVER SUPPORTER*
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:40 am
Posts: 4368
Location: Southern CA
Um, I don't really care whether you call it ST or D -- or Defensive ST. It was a terrific play by Malcolm Smith and Jeron Johnson.

_________________
Help bring peace to the South LA / Puget Sound communities. Are you in?
http://www.abetterla.org | http://www.abetterseattle.com


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:04 pm 
NET Rookie
Offline

Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 10:45 am
Posts: 276
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
HawksFTW wrote:
ensett wrote:
if a QB was the holder and threw a TD, itd be a special teams TD, yeah. Same way Leon returning a kick for a TD isnt an offensive TD


Well, isn't this interesting. From page four of the NFL rulebook:

Quote:
Whenever a team is in possession of the ball, it is the offense, and at such time its opponent is the defense.


These are the only two designations specifically laid out in the NFL rulebook. So technically, a kick return is an offensive TD.

Who cares.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:06 pm 
* 17Power Blogger *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 8:46 am
Posts: 11208
Earl Thomas has dropped at least eight interceptions by his own count. That accounts for a lot of it.

_________________
GO HAWKS!!!

Visit my Seahawks blog at 17power.blogspot.com!

Follow me on Twitter at @17power


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:27 pm 
* NET E-Knight *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:06 am
Posts: 4157
MontanaHawk05 wrote:
Earl Thomas has dropped at least eight interceptions by his own count. That accounts for a lot of it.


Yep, a few of them would have been amazing interceptions, but some were just routine grabs. Turnovers a fluky stat, and sustaining them with any consistency is very difficult for even the best teams. The good thing is, we have had some very timely turn overs this year, which to me is more important. The quality of the turnover (field position, score of the game, timing, etc) is a bigger deal that quantity. I think a big part of it, is the lack of consistent pressure; the more pressure, the more turnovers.

_________________
cboom wrote:
Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:51 pm 
NET Veteran
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:08 pm
Posts: 904
Omg people. Special teams players were on the field, a punt return is a special teams play, it smells like a duck so it's a special teams play. Stop it.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:46 pm 
NET Veteran
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:39 pm
Posts: 4258
Interceptions
2012:
Sherman 4
Browner 3
ET 2
Wagner 1

2011:
Browner 6
Sherman 4
Chancellor 4
Hawthorne 3
ET 2
Red Bryant 2
Trufant 1

Chancellor has DISAPPEARED this season. Browner has fallen off. Wagner is not causing the turnovers Hawthorne did. Bryant is playing injured. That's 8 TO's right there.

Forced Fumbles
2012
Sherman 3
Browner 3
Robinson 2
Irvin, Clemons, Trufant, Wright and ET 1 each

2011
Chancellor 3
Clemons 3
Smith 2
Robinson 2
bunches at 1

Again, Chancellor has DISAPPEARED. Clemons has dropped off a couple. Sherman and Browner are making up for it.

Kam Chancellor went from causing 7 TO's last year to ZERO this year.

_________________
Richard Sherman doesn't just wanna get in your head, he wants to build a vacation home there.

R. Sherman: "I don't want to be an island. I want to be a tourist attraction. You come, I take your money & you go."


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:49 pm 
* NET Moderator *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:35 pm
Posts: 18457
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Back on topic, I too am really surprised and dissapointed that we havnt generated more turnovers. Especially when that seemed to be a real strength even this preseason. It seems like when they come though, they come in bunches. Who knows, maybe we can get hot in that regard the last 4 weeks and into the playoffs.

_________________
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 17 takeaways in 12 games?
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:08 pm 
NET Veteran
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:39 pm
Posts: 4258
I think a big part of it, besides the comlete disappearance of Kam Chancellor, is the QB's we've faced. Rodgers, Brady, etc. Those guys don't give up turnovers.

_________________
Richard Sherman doesn't just wanna get in your head, he wants to build a vacation home there.

R. Sherman: "I don't want to be an island. I want to be a tourist attraction. You come, I take your money & you go."


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ] 

Board index » SEAHAWKS.NET - THE VOICE OF THE 12TH MAN » [ THE OFFICIAL NET NATION FAN FORUM ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ak3000, drdiags, Google [Bot], halfrack, SeahawksRawk, smerfy01, Sprfunk, Yahoo [Bot] and 106 guests

 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Seahawks.NET is an independent fan site and not associated with the Seattle Seahawks or the NFL (National Football League).
All content within this Seahawks fan page is provided by, and for, Seattle Seahawks fans. Copyright © Seahawks.NET.