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 Post subject: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:08 pm 
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The players or the coaches?

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:24 pm 
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Aside from that last boneheaded play, it was just Marshall balling out. I guess that is on the coach to not single him out more but I guess they were just confident in Sherman and Browner being able to man him up.


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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:27 pm 
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sturg78 wrote:
Aside from that last boneheaded play, it was just Marshall balling out. I guess that is on the coach to not single him out more but I guess they were just confident in Sherman and Browner being able to man him up.


Stop, just stop. It was Matt Stafford and the Lions with their backs against the wall. Then it was AP just doing his thing. Then it was Dolphins doing...<insert excuse>

The defense is regressing. Period.


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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:29 pm 
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Zone defense. I don't know if that is an and/or option for the players and coaches.

Often, it's one or the other: calling, substituting, or executing.


Last edited by entropyrulesall on Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:29 pm 
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Coaches on this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:30 pm 
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When one guy beats you, its on the coaches. When the team consistently fails on 3rd and long, its the coaches. When you have so many ballers on the D like we do and they faulter as such, its the coaches.


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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:35 pm 
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Entropy has this one. We were in zone defense all first half, and Marshall killed us. We switched to bump and run, and mostly shut him down the 2nd half.


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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:39 pm 
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We held the Bears to 17pts on their home turf, and we suck? Yes, that one play sucked big time, but if our Defense hadn't held them to 14 pts previously, we never would have had a chance.

But hey, haters gonna hate.

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:24 pm 
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Very good points LymonHawk. Might as well appreciate the win (we sure as hell have beat ourselves up over the last week). A win is a friggin WIN!

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:32 pm 
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LymonHawk wrote:
We held the Bears to 17pts on their home turf, and we suck? Yes, that one play sucked big time, but if our Defense hadn't held them to 14 pts previously, we never would have had a chance.

But hey, haters gonna hate.


There were several open receivers who dropped key passes, including a deep TD strike where the receiver blew past Brandon Browner. We couldn't get pressure on an awful Bears OL. It's concerning. I'm psyched for the win, but there's legit reasons to be concerned.


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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:33 pm 
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jkitsune wrote:
LymonHawk wrote:
We held the Bears to 17pts on their home turf, and we suck? Yes, that one play sucked big time, but if our Defense hadn't held them to 14 pts previously, we never would have had a chance.

But hey, haters gonna hate.


There were several open receivers who dropped key passes, including a deep TD strike where the receiver blew past Brandon Browner. We couldn't get pressure on an awful Bears OL. It's concerning. I'm psyched for the win, but there's legit reasons to be concerned.

Agreed.

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:34 pm 
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It's on coaching. They need to rush the passer more.

And hate to say it, but it looked like our corners could have used some adderall today...


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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:34 pm 
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It's gotta be both. Seems like players are getting away from the basics and trying to do to much, and the coaches need to straighten that out.

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:37 pm 
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jkitsune wrote:
LymonHawk wrote:
We held the Bears to 17pts on their home turf, and we suck? Yes, that one play sucked big time, but if our Defense hadn't held them to 14 pts previously, we never would have had a chance.

But hey, haters gonna hate.


There were several open receivers who dropped key passes, including a deep TD strike where the receiver blew past Brandon Browner. We couldn't get pressure on an awful Bears OL. It's concerning. I'm psyched for the win, but there's legit reasons to be concerned.


Funny that you mention that play and state that we couldn't get any pressure. For one, pressure from Clemmons forced Cutler out of the pocket and if holding was called after the RT tackled CC to the ground then that play would not have mattered at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Our pass rush has pretty much disappeared over the last few weeks. They need to pick it up big time.


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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:37 pm 
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I'm sure you're not using one play where we got a little bit of pressure to excuse the lack of it all game.


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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:38 pm 
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razgriz737 wrote:
jkitsune wrote:
LymonHawk wrote:
We held the Bears to 17pts on their home turf, and we suck? Yes, that one play sucked big time, but if our Defense hadn't held them to 14 pts previously, we never would have had a chance.

But hey, haters gonna hate.


There were several open receivers who dropped key passes, including a deep TD strike where the receiver blew past Brandon Browner. We couldn't get pressure on an awful Bears OL. It's concerning. I'm psyched for the win, but there's legit reasons to be concerned.

Agreed.


Disagree

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:39 pm 
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jkitsune wrote:
I'm sure you're not using one play where we got a little bit of pressure to excuse the lack of it all game.



No, I am using the example that you gave to dispute your faulty claims. Now, if you had used a better example, then you may have me swayed.

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:41 pm 
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I don't think I need to sway you unless you didn't watch the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:41 pm 
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I just watched the play again on Football Night in America. Watch that play and get back to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:43 pm 
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First of all, I never said that these issues occurred on the same play. They were separate sentences for a reason. Second of all, I'm talking about a game and the issues therein. Not a single play. Stop being so asinine.


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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:44 pm 
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I'll tell you what is wrong with the Defense........they need the 12th Man to function properly! Without them, they are out of synch.


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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:37 pm 
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I thought the D played VERY well today, sans one play. Cutler can Marshall can become unstoppable for stretches. Ain't a darn thing ANYBODY can do about it. No coach, no player, no scheme. We COMPLETELY shut down EVERYBODY else. If it wasn't for our defense playing great, we would have been a few scores behind by half. The pass rush wasn't good, but the Bears were getting rid of it quickly today and only held it long enough to go down the field once or twice. Take away "the play", and I'll take that defensive performance 100 times out of 100.

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:45 pm 
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jkitsune wrote:
First of all, I never said that these issues occurred on the same play. They were separate sentences for a reason. Second of all, I'm talking about a game and the issues therein. Not a single play. Stop being so asinine.



Regardless, both sentences were addressed with that one play. We do not get pressure every play, but the d-line gets pressure as evidenced by Cutler leaving the pocket, scramble, and throw the ball away a few times.

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:55 pm 
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Whose fault

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:34 pm 
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Curry, if you watched that game and came away pleased with our pass rush, I don't really know what to say. Sure, it's not as if we NEVER EVER got pressure, but the amount of pressure applied throughout the game, particularly against a makeshift OL that is one of the worst in the game, is not acceptable, and I'd argue is a huge weakness of the defense.


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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:42 pm 
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jkitsune wrote:
Curry, if you watched that game and came away pleased with our pass rush, I don't really know what to say. Sure, it's not as if we NEVER EVER got pressure, but the amount of pressure applied throughout the game, particularly against a makeshift OL that is one of the worst in the game, is not acceptable, and I'd argue is a huge weakness of the defense.



Was I overly pleased? No. Nor was I overly upset by the amount of pressure either. Being that the defensive coaching staff handcuffed the d-line with three and four man rushes against five to six man protections I feel like they did well. I mean, even on the ridiculously stupid 56 yard completion to Marshall the Seahawks flushed Cutler with a three-man rush and almost had a sack had Jones kept his feet on the turf.

I see today's pass-rush, and the away pass-rush for the season as being a schematic fail by Bradley. You have press corners and speed at LB with a couple of above average DE's and you run a three-man rush and zone coverage? That is pure ignorance. Blitz a LB every once in awhile.

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:43 pm 
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jkitsune wrote:
Curry, if you watched that game and came away pleased with our pass rush, I don't really know what to say. Sure, it's not as if we NEVER EVER got pressure, but the amount of pressure applied throughout the game, particularly against a makeshift OL that is one of the worst in the game, is not acceptable, and I'd argue is a huge weakness of the defense.

I'd agree that it's not acceptable in the sense that we know our guys are capable of better, a la the Packers game. I don't know how anyone could be happy with only forcing Cutler to scramble a few times when he's playing behind (arguably) the worst OL in the league. Now I know we're not going to get 8 sacks in the first half every game, but there has to be some middle ground between the performance against the Packers and what we saw today that we can expect semi-consistently.

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:48 pm 
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Giblien wrote:
The players or the coaches?


sutz wrote:
Yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Fire John Marshall

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:24 pm 
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"It's the coaches fault."

Translation: "I like all of these players too much to admit that they aren't as good as I thought they were."

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:26 pm 
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hawkfannj wrote:
Fire John Marshall


I also blame the T.J. Houshmandzadeh signing.

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 Post subject: Re: Whose fault is the Hawks defensive woes?
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:49 pm 
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You cannot solely blame one or the other....... but I think the majority of the blame has to go with the "ball-less D-coord" Gus Bradley!

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