Russell Wilson: 2nd in QBR since Week 5 behind only Brady

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  • I am checking out advance stats on pro football reference website. Russell Wilson ranks top 10-15 in most categories now but he is #27 When it comes to attempts. That means he is not throwing much compared to other QB's in the league but whenever he is throwing then he is making the most out of those opportunities.
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  • SeahawksFanForever wrote:I am checking out advance stats on pro football reference website. Russell Wilson ranks top 10-15 in most categories now but he is #27 When it comes to attempts. That means he is not throwing much compared to other QB's in the league but whenever he is throwing then he is making the most out of those opportunities.


    That is basically what the 49ers did with Alex Smith last year and he had a career year. Don't let him throw a lot, but when he does, put him in position to be good.
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  • The Bears have been holding opposing QB's to like a 60 passer rating, so it'll be interesting to see how Wilson performs against the Bears D. Good test.
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  • The thread title should read "Since Week 5", not week two.
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  • And yet he averages 186 yards a game.

    He's making all the right throws. The safe ones. But at some point this coaching staff needs to take the training wheels off this kid. The fact they're not doing that is odd. Either they don't think he can handle it, or we have some terrible play-calling going on right now.

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  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    He's making all the right throws. The safe ones.


    While I agree Pete and Bevell need to let Russell throw it more, it's not entirely fair to say ALL they let him do is make the safe throws. Wilson's thrown a ton of long balls, and has 17 TD's.

    IMO it's pure arrogance on Carroll's part to try and run the ball so much, when even he admits Wilson is flourishing in the passing game right now. I don't care what the hell happened the last eight games of last year running the ball, this team DOES NOT have the O-Line to run the ball at will..........either Pete will admit it, and let Russell throw it around a little.......or he won't and we'll lose 2-3 more games.
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  • HawkFan72 wrote:
    SeahawksFanForever wrote:I am checking out advance stats on pro football reference website. Russell Wilson ranks top 10-15 in most categories now but he is #27 When it comes to attempts. That means he is not throwing much compared to other QB's in the league but whenever he is throwing then he is making the most out of those opportunities.


    That is basically what the 49ers did with Alex Smith last year and he had a career year. Don't let him throw a lot, but when he does, put him in position to be good.

    And then they replaced him. Not sure that's a good formula in the long run. We'll see.
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  • Jazzhawk wrote:
    HawkFan72 wrote:
    SeahawksFanForever wrote:I am checking out advance stats on pro football reference website. Russell Wilson ranks top 10-15 in most categories now but he is #27 When it comes to attempts. That means he is not throwing much compared to other QB's in the league but whenever he is throwing then he is making the most out of those opportunities.


    That is basically what the 49ers did with Alex Smith last year and he had a career year. Don't let him throw a lot, but when he does, put him in position to be good.

    And then they replaced him. Not sure that's a good formula in the long run. We'll see.


    Psst, Kaepernick hasn't thrown for any more attempts in a game than Wilson has, really.

    He played almost 4 quarters against the Rams and attempted 17 passes.

    Full game against the Bears and threw 23. Another full game against the Saints and threw 25. And they ran the ball more times than they threw it in both of those games.

    In other words, they haven't changed the formula in any way. They just changed the player.
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  • HawkFan72 wrote:
    SeahawksFanForever wrote:I am checking out advance stats on pro football reference website. Russell Wilson ranks top 10-15 in most categories now but he is #27 When it comes to attempts. That means he is not throwing much compared to other QB's in the league but whenever he is throwing then he is making the most out of those opportunities.


    That is basically what the 49ers did with Alex Smith last year and he had a career year. Don't let him throw a lot, but when he does, put him in position to be good.


    I think that IF Pete let Russell throw the ball 40 times a game that Russell would do great. I can't wait to see a game where they let him air it out 40 times.
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  • "We shouldn't start Russell Wilson because we are wasting this defense.... Flynn would do much better. "

    Haven't heard that said in awhile.
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  • IBleedBlueAndGreen wrote:The thread title should read "Since Week 5", not week two.


    Nice catch! I fat-fingered the topic title, but the body text was correct. I fixed the title. Thanks for pointing that out.
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  • And his escapability is phenomenal - and a key for this offense. I still believe Flynn would be getting KILLED in the pocket this season. Wilson had escaped from so many bad situations, and either ran or thrown it for positive yards.
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  • Jazzhawk wrote:
    HawkFan72 wrote:
    SeahawksFanForever wrote:I am checking out advance stats on pro football reference website. Russell Wilson ranks top 10-15 in most categories now but he is #27 When it comes to attempts. That means he is not throwing much compared to other QB's in the league but whenever he is throwing then he is making the most out of those opportunities.


    That is basically what the 49ers did with Alex Smith last year and he had a career year. Don't let him throw a lot, but when he does, put him in position to be good.

    And then they replaced him. Not sure that's a good formula in the long run. We'll see.


    Wilson has thrown as many TDs in 11 games as Smith managed all of last year though
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  • SeahawksFanForever wrote:I am checking out advance stats on pro football reference website. Russell Wilson ranks top 10-15 in most categories now but he is #27 When it comes to attempts. That means he is not throwing much compared to other QB's in the league but whenever he is throwing then he is making the most out of those opportunities.


    Exactly! He is doing well of what we ask him, but we need to start asking him to do more!
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  • Hasselbeck wrote:And yet he averages 186 yards a game.

    He's making all the right throws. The safe ones. But at some point this coaching staff needs to take the training wheels off this kid. The fact they're not doing that is odd. Either they don't think he can handle it, or we have some terrible play-calling going on right now.

    ^This.

    Still wondering why we didn't air it out against the dolphins when the run wasn't working (and not picking up/wearing them down as the 3rd quarter progressed). Why stubbornly stick to our "identity" when it's not working?

    In 2007 Holmy abandoned the run almost completely and that ended up working out pretty damned well. Got us into the playoffs certainly, and Hass ended up with career stats too (especially in the passing yards category that some love so much - myself I prefer excelling in the TD/INT column).

    I'm not in any way advocating abandoning the run (Pro-Bowl 2nd or 3rdbest RB in the league anyone?), but c'mon Pete, it all ends up with what friggin works!

    This echoes sentiments brought up by Pehawk in another thread, are we at times squandering our best asset? And being way way too predictable?
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:
    He's making all the right throws. The safe ones.


    While I agree Pete and Bevell need to let Russell throw it more, it's not entirely fair to say ALL they let him do is make the safe throws. Wilson's thrown a ton of long balls, and has 17 TD's.



    if receivers can't get open deep come Sunday its going to be a long day, hanging onto the ball and throwing short killed em in FL, no 2 ways about it

    offenses need more dynamics if they expect to win in more ways than one...
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  • To bad all this wondrous stat stuff hasn't translated into more wins.

    I'm with the side that thinks the only stats that count are wins/losses. All the rest are merely things for fans to do with the wasted time between games.

    :roll:
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  • The Radish wrote:To bad all this wondrous stat stuff hasn't translated into more wins.

    I'm with the side that thinks the only stats that count are wins/losses. All the rest are merely things for fans to do with the wasted time between games.

    :roll:


    Wondered how long it would be until someone posted a version of this sentiment.

    Wins are a team result. They require everyone to step up. And one way to see who is stepping up and playing well is - gasp - to look at the statistics they generate.

    And I know this is blasphemous to some around here, but it's possible to want the team to win more WHILE AT THE SAME TIME being excited about how well our rookie QB is playing.
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  • T-Sizzle wrote:"We shouldn't start Russell Wilson because we are wasting this defense.... Flynn would do much better. "

    Haven't heard that said in awhile.


    I don't see how this line of antagonizing adds to this particular thread.
    I'd rather stick to the issue that the OP intended.

    I for one am NOT happy about Wilson being held back so's Pete & Co. can try'n establish their "Run First" mantra.
    Wilson just might throw more picks, BUT he just might win those games for you when the Run game isn't getting the job done.
    The reason some Quarterbacks get picked off more regularly, is because Defenses study the tendencies & habits like locking onto your Receivers, not spreading your passes and using the whole field, and staying with a particular Receiver too often.
    I think what bothers me the most about Pete is that he doesn't seem to want to put the games out of reach for his opponents, by running up the score, and resting on a small lead with time for them to go into a two minute drill with not a lot of time left on the clock, and go into that damned prevent Defense...This cost us the Lions & Dolphins games.
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  • Hasselbeck wrote:And yet he averages 186 yards a game.

    He's making all the right throws. The safe ones. But at some point this coaching staff needs to take the training wheels off this kid. The fact they're not doing that is odd. Either they don't think he can handle it, or we have some terrible play-calling going on right now.

    When you don't play the game to win, you open the door for games like Arizona, Miami, St. Louis and Detroit.


    So what he averages 186 yards a game? Where does it say in the rules he has to throw for 300+ yards for this team to be successful?

    He's been challenged a lot. This is an offense that is designed to run the ball, let the defense cheat up, hit them with a PA or deep shot. Wilson's throwing accurately down the field and taking shots. It's not like he's checking down every play underneath or throwing endless slants.

    People who think this is 'training wheels' stuff don't get this offense. It's based on the run, formed around the run. We've run the ball well for the most part and the quarterback and passing game work from that starting point. If you don't like this style of offense, then complain about that. I don't think you've got much reason to complain. We've lost a few close games but we're a young team. As we get older and add a couple more pieces, it stands to reason we'll win more tight games. We've also won a few games this year because we've been able to keep it tight against good teams.

    Stuff like 'playing not to win' is just cliched rhetoric. And you'll be waiting a long time if you think Wilson or any other QB for this team is going to be averaging big yardage.
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  • therealjohncarlson wrote:
    SeahawksFanForever wrote:I am checking out advance stats on pro football reference website. Russell Wilson ranks top 10-15 in most categories now but he is #27 When it comes to attempts. That means he is not throwing much compared to other QB's in the league but whenever he is throwing then he is making the most out of those opportunities.


    Exactly! He is doing well of what we ask him, but we need to start asking him to do more!


    Yep, he's shown that he can certainly handle the load, and if the Run game is faltering, it's because Pete isn't spreading it around enough.
    Like the old saying goes, "Run to set up the pass, and pass to set up the run",,,gotta keep the Defenses guessing, and with Wilsons abilities to buying time, you risk loseing games + your wasting his talents by not taking advantage of it.
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:And yet he averages 186 yards a game.

    He's making all the right throws. The safe ones. But at some point this coaching staff needs to take the training wheels off this kid. The fact they're not doing that is odd. Either they don't think he can handle it, or we have some terrible play-calling going on right now.

    When you don't play the game to win, you open the door for games like Arizona, Miami, St. Louis and Detroit.


    So what he averages 186 yards a game? Where does it say in the rules he has to throw for 300+ yards for this team to be successful?

    He's been challenged a lot. This is an offense that is designed to run the ball, let the defense cheat up, hit them with a PA or deep shot. Wilson's throwing accurately down the field and taking shots. It's not like he's checking down every play underneath or throwing endless slants.

    People who think this is 'training wheels' stuff don't get this offense. It's based on the run, formed around the run. We've run the ball well for the most part and the quarterback and passing game work from that starting point. If you don't like this style of offense, then complain about that. I don't think you've got much reason to complain. We've lost a few close games but we're a young team. As we get older and add a couple more pieces, it stands to reason we'll win more tight games. We've also won a few games this year because we've been able to keep it tight against good teams.

    Stuff like 'playing not to win' is just cliched rhetoric. And you'll be waiting a long time if you think Wilson or any other QB for this team is going to be averaging big yardage.

    Trouble with stubbornly staying with the Run first?, the Lions and the Phins game planned to stopping the run, and it worked out costing us those games.
    You have to be able to mix it up, and Wilson does give you that extra facet.
    Who woulda thought that the Dolphins or the Lions could pull off wins by gameplanning for Pete's "Run first " mantra?, we're in dire need of MIXTURE, or we're in for more losses that could and should be wins.
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  • themunn wrote:
    Jazzhawk wrote:
    HawkFan72 wrote:
    That is basically what the 49ers did with Alex Smith last year and he had a career year. Don't let him throw a lot, but when he does, put him in position to be good.

    And then they replaced him. Not sure that's a good formula in the long run. We'll see.


    Wilson has thrown as many TDs in 11 games as Smith managed all of last year though

    Sorry, I was being a little facetious. It didn't go over so well, apparently.
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  • The Radish wrote:To bad all this wondrous stat stuff hasn't translated into more wins.

    I'm with the side that thinks the only stats that count are wins/losses. All the rest are merely things for fans to do with the wasted time between games.

    :roll:

    Yeah, I suppose that all this posting crap between games IS a waste of time, so why do WE do it Radish?
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  • G.O.A.T.

    So excited for the future. Got my Wilson jersey coming in the mail.
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  • rideaducati wrote:
    HawkFan72 wrote:
    SeahawksFanForever wrote:I am checking out advance stats on pro football reference website. Russell Wilson ranks top 10-15 in most categories now but he is #27 When it comes to attempts. That means he is not throwing much compared to other QB's in the league but whenever he is throwing then he is making the most out of those opportunities.


    That is basically what the 49ers did with Alex Smith last year and he had a career year. Don't let him throw a lot, but when he does, put him in position to be good.


    I think that IF Pete let Russell throw the ball 40 times a game that Russell would do great. I can't wait to see a game where they let him air it out 40 times.


    I don't get this. I think it is pretty clear that in that last game, throwing more, maybe even 40 times was a good idea, but I am pretty sure that we don't have the personnel to consistently be that kind of offense. I think the natural evolution going forward will transition more toward passing as we develop that part of the game, but I don't expect much of that this year.

    For the Miami game, yeah, 40 passes could have been good, but it just isn't the way we are built to play consistently.
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  • scutterhawk wrote:Trouble with stubbornly staying with the Run first?, the Lions and the Phins game planned to stopping the run, and it worked out costing us those games.You have to be able to mix it up, and Wilson does give you that extra facet.
    Who woulda thought that the Dolphins or the Lions could pull off wins by gameplanning for Pete's "Run first " mantra?, we're in dire need of MIXTURE, or we're in for more losses that could and should be wins.


    So you're putting those two losses on the offense? I must've watched two different games to you. Because the Lions game, our offense did more than enough on the day and were let down by a ragged looking defense. And in the Miami game - it was far from perfect - but a much vaunted defense let the Dolphins run to the tune of over 6YPA and gave Ryan Tannehill a nice little kick start too after a rough last few weeks.

    Not saying the offense was great against Miami (although it was more than good enough against Detroit). But there's only one unit responsible for those two defeats.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:For the Miami game, yeah, 40 passes could have been good, but it just isn't the way we are built to play consistently.


    I'm not fixated on how many times a game Wilson is allowed to pass. I'm fixated on Carroll and Bevell's stubbornness to run, even when the run game is clearly not working..........and in Miami it clearly wasn't working.

    We ran on 16 of 23 first downs, to the tune of 1.8 yard average. We ran THE LAST EIGHT FIRST DOWNS OF THE GAME.

    Wilson had what, like 16 or 17 straight completions almost setting a record? Dude was rolling.........so yeah, let's not go with what's working, let's continue to run for no gainers and gas out our defense so they're whipped in the 4th qtr getting gouged. GREAT GAME PLANNING PETE!
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:For the Miami game, yeah, 40 passes could have been good, but it just isn't the way we are built to play consistently.


    I'm not fixated on how many times a game Wilson is allowed to pass. I'm fixated on Carroll and Bevell's stubbornness to run, even when the run game is clearly not working..........and in Miami it clearly wasn't working.

    We ran on 16 of 23 first downs, to the tune of 1.8 yard average. We ran THE LAST EIGHT FIRST DOWNS OF THE GAME.

    Wilson had what, like 16 or 17 straight completions almost setting a record? Dude was rolling.........so yeah, let's not go with what's working, let's continue to run for no gainers and gas out our defense so they're whipped in the 4th qtr getting gouged. GREAT GAME PLANNING PETE!


    I don't think even Pete is disagreeing with you this week.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:We ran on 16 of 23 first downs, to the tune of 1.8 yard average. We ran THE LAST EIGHT FIRST DOWNS OF THE GAME.



    This right here is the bigger picture item beyond this thread. People wonder why people come here and complain about playcalling. Numbers like this screams PREDICTABILITY

    I went here: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs

    Now if I misunderstand these numbers please tell me and I will correct the post. I copied that chart to excel

    The sum of all teams is 7,061 first downs. 647 of those are classifieds as penalties so I removed them from the equation. I then summed up the number of first down runs and first down pass by all NFL teams.

    33% of the plays are Run and 67% are Pass........if you leave the flag plays there the number goes to 30% and 61% and 9% turns into penalties.

    So the league as a whole runs onlye 33% of the time on first down!!!!!

    We go to Miami a team known for stopping the run very well and lack of good corners open to the passing game. We run the ball almost 70%!!!!!! on first down against that team?T Twice the league average against this team - amazing
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    So you're putting those two losses on the offense? I must've watched two different games to you. Because the Lions game, our offense did more than enough on the day and were let down by a ragged looking defense. And in the Miami game - it was far from perfect - but a much vaunted defense let the Dolphins run to the tune of over 6YPA and gave Ryan Tannehill a nice little kick start too after a rough last few weeks.

    Not saying the offense was great against Miami (although it was more than good enough against Detroit). But there's only one unit responsible for those two defeats.


    Unless I'm missing something, the team with the highest score wins the games, and resting on a small lead has come back to bite us in those two games, because Pete was expecting the Defense to hold onto the lead by going with the failing Prevent Defense.
    When we lost to the Lions, Pete would have done well by adopting Wilsons resolve, and not make the same mistake again.
    Is it possible that by going a little more with Wilson in that Miami game that we still lose?, certainly, but we'll never know for sure.
    Pete stuck to his guns and it worked against him because he played right into the Dolphins Coaches game plans.
    Pete didn't have near enough lead to rest on keeping with his run game.
    He didn't have enough score cushioning to stay predictable.
    I guess what gets me the most, is that Pete isn't making use of all the advantages that he has at his disposal.
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  • Scutterhawk - unfortunately I call that the Norv Turner coaching philosophy......... Pete is not as bad but when it comes to having a lead and thinking that now all you need to do is protect it their mindset sure seems very alike.

    For any Europeans - this is like watching Italy play soccer :D
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  • mikeak wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:We ran on 16 of 23 first downs, to the tune of 1.8 yard average. We ran THE LAST EIGHT FIRST DOWNS OF THE GAME.



    This right here is the bigger picture item beyond this thread. People wonder why people come here and complain about playcalling. Numbers like this screams PREDICTABILITY

    I went here: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs

    Now if I misunderstand these numbers please tell me and I will correct the post. I copied that chart to excel

    The sum of all teams is 7,061 first downs. 647 of those are classifieds as penalties so I removed them from the equation. I then summed up the number of first down runs and first down pass by all NFL teams.

    33% of the plays are Run and 67% are Pass........if you leave the flag plays there the number goes to 30% and 61% and 9% turns into penalties.

    So the league as a whole runs onlye 33% of the time on first down!!!!!

    We go to Miami a team known for stopping the run very well and lack of good corners open to the passing game. We run the ball almost 70%!!!!!! on first down against that team?T Twice the league average against this team - amazing

    Seems crazy, doesn't it?

    Like Sgt. Largent said, "Dude was rolling", if a QB is hot - PLAY THE GUY. Maybe I'm missing something here? Although Pete DID say he was mistaken on Brock and Salk. Said basically that they weren't expecting them to surge to somany points at the end. This slim margin crap is really starting to suck.
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  • when you run the ball and get stuffed on 1st and 2nd, you're putting you're rookie qb in the worst position possible 3rd and long, especially with our pass blocking.. we repeatedly do this every game.... to think he has put up the numbers he has is amazing to me, shows just how much poise this young man has... his most success comes from play action, deep, dump offs, or scrambling.. most of his failures seems to come from dropping straight back and the "O" line does their O'lay technique and he's gets creamed or flushed out of the pocket. they need to mix it up, keep the D guessing, which will lead to more managable 3rd and shorts.. he's ready, give him the reigns and let him loose....
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  • Thats pretty cool.
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  • Poeple let's get a grip here. PC even said in his presser on WED that in retrospect he should have let him throw it more. But I could see their reasoning. The majority of the year we've had great success (especially the last 2 games) of running the ball late in games. It didn't happen on Sunday.

    The fact is The offense was moving well and milking the clock in that final offensive drive. We hit McCoy for a big gainer which all we needed was 1 more first down to close out the game. Unfortunately the play calls didn't work and then the defense folded like a wet cardboard box. I did notice like some of you we seemed to revert back to the GB playcalling of run,run, pass on 3rd and long.

    But there is a method to their madness. There's a natural progression for most QB's. I could cite several examples but with reference just 3 recent QB's. All are on really good players. I'm speaking of Big Ben, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco .

    I firmly beleive that the model PC and JS want to emulate is how the Steelers, Falcons (to a lesser extend), Ravens have done things. Relying on a strong running game and a good defense to carry the day. But you see with these players their average pass attempts grow as their roles expand in the offense.

    Ryan averaged 27.12 passes a game as a rookie-- A steady progression upward with 2012=39 attempts/game
    Flacco averaged 26.75 passes a game--- with 2012= 35.63 attempts per game
    Big Ben aveaged just 21.07 passes as a rookie-- Before being hurt was averaging= 35.11 attempts per game.

    Russell Wilson is averaging 25.45 passes a game. I firmly expect them to give him more throws throughout the rest of this year and I beleive that next year he'll be attempting 30-32 passes a game. To me I'm not concerned by the lack of attempts. This is a process and he's exceeding with the what he's allowed to do. I forsee his role expanding next year as did, Big Ben, Ryan, and Flacco's did following their rookie campaigns.

    For the remainder of this year I hope they give him closer to 30 throws a game and allow him to throw more frequently on 1st down like they did the last several weeks.
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  • Good points jlwaters. The misery deriving from another one tacked onto the "L" column. I almost keep forgetting it was only by a fieldgoal, at LITERALLY the last second.

    Stat rationalization that it truly is......you can't squeek a win (the fins did) any closer than that!
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  • Sort of explains why the Rams "stole" the Slave-to-the-Businessman away from us by so GROSSLY overpaying him.

    Those last-second, seat-of-the-pants stolen wins sting!
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  • jlwaters1 wrote:Poeple let's get a grip here. PC even said in his presser on WED that in retrospect he should have let him throw it more. .


    Missed the presser but glad PC admitted what everyone already knew. I guess I just have a problem when people getting paid millions aren't as good as analyzing opponents as people getting paid zero....

    lots of people had that game nailed on this board based on film. It shouldn't have been a retrospective conclusion

    The issue with the final drive - yes one play away by Wilson and the offense but also several plays where we had to convert a 3rd down. We should have enough faith in our starting qb to put him in a position to succeed through that drive. Not be one missed play from a possible loss. WR's have been known to drop a pass or two...
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  • volsunghawk wrote:
    The Radish wrote:To bad all this wondrous stat stuff hasn't translated into more wins.

    I'm with the side that thinks the only stats that count are wins/losses. All the rest are merely things for fans to do with the wasted time between games.

    :roll:


    Wondered how long it would be until someone posted a version of this sentiment.

    Wins are a team result. They require everyone to step up. And one way to see who is stepping up and playing well is - gasp - to look at the statistics they generate.

    And I know this is blasphemous to some around here, but it's possible to want the team to win more WHILE AT THE SAME TIME being excited about how well our rookie QB is playing.



    I admitted to Vols via PM that I overstepped here. I'm not sure about the rest of the moderating crew but can speak for me getting tired of all the stat talk, especially from the group that insists we are going to win some game cause we are better statistically.

    I apologize for my comments, I've just always been a win/loss type of guy and that's my opinion.

    To those of you that like the stat side I see your point of view. Can we just agree to disagree?
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  • Radish -- don't you see a difference between team stats saying we are better than our win / loss record and individual stats?

    Our team stats matters to me just for the sake of showing where are weakness is at the end of the day it all comes down to number of wins

    individual stats matters to judge the performance of one guy. One guy doesn't win the game and we could have a qb with perfect rating and still not win a game. We could have the most accurate field goal kicker and not win a game. We could have a guy break the sack record and still not win a game.

    Yet I would come here and be - hey did you know that our kicker just made his 44th field goal in a row that hasn't ever happened before etc.....
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  • mikeak wrote:
    jlwaters1 wrote:Poeple let's get a grip here. PC even said in his presser on WED that in retrospect he should have let him throw it more. .


    Missed the presser but glad PC admitted what everyone already knew. I guess I just have a problem when people getting paid millions aren't as good as analyzing opponents as people getting paid zero....

    lots of people had that game nailed on this board based on film. It shouldn't have been a retrospective conclusion

    The issue with the final drive - yes one play away by Wilson and the offense but also several plays where we had to convert a 3rd down. We should have enough faith in our starting qb to put him in a position to succeed through that drive. Not be one missed play from a possible loss. WR's have been known to drop a pass or two...


    Actually I felt releived that PC said that as well. In hindsight it seems obvious we should have thrown it more, though at the moment we had the momentum. It just sucks those next 3 plays all lost yards. The screen play was just a great job by their DL.
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  • scutterhawk wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    So you're putting those two losses on the offense? I must've watched two different games to you. Because the Lions game, our offense did more than enough on the day and were let down by a ragged looking defense. And in the Miami game - it was far from perfect - but a much vaunted defense let the Dolphins run to the tune of over 6YPA and gave Ryan Tannehill a nice little kick start too after a rough last few weeks.

    Not saying the offense was great against Miami (although it was more than good enough against Detroit). But there's only one unit responsible for those two defeats.


    Unless I'm missing something, the team with the highest score wins the games, and resting on a small lead has come back to bite us in those two games, because Pete was expecting the Defense to hold onto the lead by going with the failing Prevent Defense.
    When we lost to the Lions, Pete would have done well by adopting Wilsons resolve, and not make the same mistake again.
    Is it possible that by going a little more with Wilson in that Miami game that we still lose?, certainly, but we'll never know for sure.
    Pete stuck to his guns and it worked against him because he played right into the Dolphins Coaches game plans.
    Pete didn't have near enough lead to rest on keeping with his run game.
    He didn't have enough score cushioning to stay predictable.
    I guess what gets me the most, is that Pete isn't making use of all the advantages that he has at his disposal.



    So by your theory, if you lose 55-54 the offense is to blame? After all 'the team with the highest score wins the game'.

    Offense put us in a position to win vs Detroit. Special teams and Wilson put us in position to win vs Miami. On both occasions, the defense had very, very bad games. There's your answer to why we lost both.
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  • Wins and Losses are stats. They're just not very predictive of future success - they tell you what you did, but they don't give much insight on how you're going to do (not with 16 games, at least) in comparison to everyone else. That's where more advanced stats come in, especially those that look at down/situation and quality of opponent.
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:So by your theory, if you lose 55-54 the offense is to blame? After all 'the team with the highest score wins the game'.

    Offense put us in a position to win vs Detroit. Special teams and Wilson put us in position to win vs Miami. On both occasions, the defense had very, very bad games. There's your answer to why we lost both.


    Offense was driving for the GW FG last week, where the defense as bad as they played would have been let off the hook.. and instead of being aggressive, Bevell basically went vanilla and we had to punt.. ultimately preceding the Tannehill drive.

    Fact or fiction?
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  • Hasselbeck wrote:Offense was driving for the GW FG last week, where the defense as bad as they played would have been let off the hook.. and instead of being aggressive, Bevell basically went vanilla and we had to punt.. ultimately preceding the Tannehill drive.

    Fact or fiction?


    Fact.

    But previous to that, I remember us having two drives using the same approach that led to 80-90 yard touchdown drives. So I get why he went that way, even if it ultimately led to no points. We punted Miami deep into their red zone and they basically had their way with our defense as they had most of the day and won the game. We couldn't stop them. And that was an offense we should've been able to stop.
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    theENGLISHseahawk
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  • They just have to learn to readjust the offense if the running game isn't cutting it.

    Let Wilson open up the offense if needed and stop closing down the offense ie. getting too conservative if ahead in the 4th.


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