Russell Wilson: 2nd in QBR since Week 5 behind only Brady

theENGLISHseahawk

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Hasselbeck":2orb8if7 said:
And yet he averages 186 yards a game.

He's making all the right throws. The safe ones. But at some point this coaching staff needs to take the training wheels off this kid. The fact they're not doing that is odd. Either they don't think he can handle it, or we have some terrible play-calling going on right now.

When you don't play the game to win, you open the door for games like Arizona, Miami, St. Louis and Detroit.

So what he averages 186 yards a game? Where does it say in the rules he has to throw for 300+ yards for this team to be successful?

He's been challenged a lot. This is an offense that is designed to run the ball, let the defense cheat up, hit them with a PA or deep shot. Wilson's throwing accurately down the field and taking shots. It's not like he's checking down every play underneath or throwing endless slants.

People who think this is 'training wheels' stuff don't get this offense. It's based on the run, formed around the run. We've run the ball well for the most part and the quarterback and passing game work from that starting point. If you don't like this style of offense, then complain about that. I don't think you've got much reason to complain. We've lost a few close games but we're a young team. As we get older and add a couple more pieces, it stands to reason we'll win more tight games. We've also won a few games this year because we've been able to keep it tight against good teams.

Stuff like 'playing not to win' is just cliched rhetoric. And you'll be waiting a long time if you think Wilson or any other QB for this team is going to be averaging big yardage.
 

scutterhawk

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therealjohncarlson":3of28bj9 said:
SeahawksFanForever":3of28bj9 said:
I am checking out advance stats on pro football reference website. Russell Wilson ranks top 10-15 in most categories now but he is #27 When it comes to attempts. That means he is not throwing much compared to other QB's in the league but whenever he is throwing then he is making the most out of those opportunities.

Exactly! He is doing well of what we ask him, but we need to start asking him to do more!

Yep, he's shown that he can certainly handle the load, and if the Run game is faltering, it's because Pete isn't spreading it around enough.
Like the old saying goes, "Run to set up the pass, and pass to set up the run",,,gotta keep the Defenses guessing, and with Wilsons abilities to buying time, you risk loseing games + your wasting his talents by not taking advantage of it.
 

scutterhawk

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theENGLISHseahawk":1lmtjepf said:
Hasselbeck":1lmtjepf said:
And yet he averages 186 yards a game.

He's making all the right throws. The safe ones. But at some point this coaching staff needs to take the training wheels off this kid. The fact they're not doing that is odd. Either they don't think he can handle it, or we have some terrible play-calling going on right now.

When you don't play the game to win, you open the door for games like Arizona, Miami, St. Louis and Detroit.

So what he averages 186 yards a game? Where does it say in the rules he has to throw for 300+ yards for this team to be successful?

He's been challenged a lot. This is an offense that is designed to run the ball, let the defense cheat up, hit them with a PA or deep shot. Wilson's throwing accurately down the field and taking shots. It's not like he's checking down every play underneath or throwing endless slants.

People who think this is 'training wheels' stuff don't get this offense. It's based on the run, formed around the run. We've run the ball well for the most part and the quarterback and passing game work from that starting point. If you don't like this style of offense, then complain about that. I don't think you've got much reason to complain. We've lost a few close games but we're a young team. As we get older and add a couple more pieces, it stands to reason we'll win more tight games. We've also won a few games this year because we've been able to keep it tight against good teams.

Stuff like 'playing not to win' is just cliched rhetoric. And you'll be waiting a long time if you think Wilson or any other QB for this team is going to be averaging big yardage.
Trouble with stubbornly staying with the Run first?, the Lions and the Phins game planned to stopping the run, and it worked out costing us those games.
You have to be able to mix it up, and Wilson does give you that extra facet.
Who woulda thought that the Dolphins or the Lions could pull off wins by gameplanning for Pete's "Run first " mantra?, we're in dire need of MIXTURE, or we're in for more losses that could and should be wins.
 

Jazzhawk

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themunn":1xmne100 said:
Jazzhawk":1xmne100 said:
HawkFan72":1xmne100 said:
That is basically what the 49ers did with Alex Smith last year and he had a career year. Don't let him throw a lot, but when he does, put him in position to be good.
And then they replaced him. Not sure that's a good formula in the long run. We'll see.

Wilson has thrown as many TDs in 11 games as Smith managed all of last year though
Sorry, I was being a little facetious. It didn't go over so well, apparently.
 

scutterhawk

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The Radish":2la0hcuy said:
To bad all this wondrous stat stuff hasn't translated into more wins.

I'm with the side that thinks the only stats that count are wins/losses. All the rest are merely things for fans to do with the wasted time between games.

:roll:
Yeah, I suppose that all this posting crap between games IS a waste of time, so why do WE do it Radish?
 

ImTheScientist

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G.O.A.T.

So excited for the future. Got my Wilson jersey coming in the mail.
 

Scottemojo

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rideaducati":17q7g8cw said:
HawkFan72":17q7g8cw said:
SeahawksFanForever":17q7g8cw said:
I am checking out advance stats on pro football reference website. Russell Wilson ranks top 10-15 in most categories now but he is #27 When it comes to attempts. That means he is not throwing much compared to other QB's in the league but whenever he is throwing then he is making the most out of those opportunities.

That is basically what the 49ers did with Alex Smith last year and he had a career year. Don't let him throw a lot, but when he does, put him in position to be good.

I think that IF Pete let Russell throw the ball 40 times a game that Russell would do great. I can't wait to see a game where they let him air it out 40 times.

I don't get this. I think it is pretty clear that in that last game, throwing more, maybe even 40 times was a good idea, but I am pretty sure that we don't have the personnel to consistently be that kind of offense. I think the natural evolution going forward will transition more toward passing as we develop that part of the game, but I don't expect much of that this year.

For the Miami game, yeah, 40 passes could have been good, but it just isn't the way we are built to play consistently.
 

theENGLISHseahawk

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scutterhawk":18joozzh said:
Trouble with stubbornly staying with the Run first?, the Lions and the Phins game planned to stopping the run, and it worked out costing us those games.You have to be able to mix it up, and Wilson does give you that extra facet.
Who woulda thought that the Dolphins or the Lions could pull off wins by gameplanning for Pete's "Run first " mantra?, we're in dire need of MIXTURE, or we're in for more losses that could and should be wins.

So you're putting those two losses on the offense? I must've watched two different games to you. Because the Lions game, our offense did more than enough on the day and were let down by a ragged looking defense. And in the Miami game - it was far from perfect - but a much vaunted defense let the Dolphins run to the tune of over 6YPA and gave Ryan Tannehill a nice little kick start too after a rough last few weeks.

Not saying the offense was great against Miami (although it was more than good enough against Detroit). But there's only one unit responsible for those two defeats.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Scottemojo":28xt30m0 said:
For the Miami game, yeah, 40 passes could have been good, but it just isn't the way we are built to play consistently.

I'm not fixated on how many times a game Wilson is allowed to pass. I'm fixated on Carroll and Bevell's stubbornness to run, even when the run game is clearly not working..........and in Miami it clearly wasn't working.

We ran on 16 of 23 first downs, to the tune of 1.8 yard average. We ran THE LAST EIGHT FIRST DOWNS OF THE GAME.

Wilson had what, like 16 or 17 straight completions almost setting a record? Dude was rolling.........so yeah, let's not go with what's working, let's continue to run for no gainers and gas out our defense so they're whipped in the 4th qtr getting gouged. GREAT GAME PLANNING PETE!
 

Scottemojo

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Sgt. Largent":99chnvdx said:
Scottemojo":99chnvdx said:
For the Miami game, yeah, 40 passes could have been good, but it just isn't the way we are built to play consistently.

I'm not fixated on how many times a game Wilson is allowed to pass. I'm fixated on Carroll and Bevell's stubbornness to run, even when the run game is clearly not working..........and in Miami it clearly wasn't working.

We ran on 16 of 23 first downs, to the tune of 1.8 yard average. We ran THE LAST EIGHT FIRST DOWNS OF THE GAME.

Wilson had what, like 16 or 17 straight completions almost setting a record? Dude was rolling.........so yeah, let's not go with what's working, let's continue to run for no gainers and gas out our defense so they're whipped in the 4th qtr getting gouged. GREAT GAME PLANNING PETE!

I don't think even Pete is disagreeing with you this week.
 

mikeak

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Sgt. Largent":3m83vt72 said:
We ran on 16 of 23 first downs, to the tune of 1.8 yard average. We ran THE LAST EIGHT FIRST DOWNS OF THE GAME.

This right here is the bigger picture item beyond this thread. People wonder why people come here and complain about playcalling. Numbers like this screams PREDICTABILITY

I went here: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs

Now if I misunderstand these numbers please tell me and I will correct the post. I copied that chart to excel

The sum of all teams is 7,061 first downs. 647 of those are classifieds as penalties so I removed them from the equation. I then summed up the number of first down runs and first down pass by all NFL teams.

33% of the plays are Run and 67% are Pass........if you leave the flag plays there the number goes to 30% and 61% and 9% turns into penalties.

So the league as a whole runs onlye 33% of the time on first down!!!!!

We go to Miami a team known for stopping the run very well and lack of good corners open to the passing game. We run the ball almost 70%!!!!!! on first down against that team?T Twice the league average against this team - amazing
 

scutterhawk

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theENGLISHseahawk":2fficgzy said:
So you're putting those two losses on the offense? I must've watched two different games to you. Because the Lions game, our offense did more than enough on the day and were let down by a ragged looking defense. And in the Miami game - it was far from perfect - but a much vaunted defense let the Dolphins run to the tune of over 6YPA and gave Ryan Tannehill a nice little kick start too after a rough last few weeks.

Not saying the offense was great against Miami (although it was more than good enough against Detroit). But there's only one unit responsible for those two defeats.

Unless I'm missing something, the team with the highest score wins the games, and resting on a small lead has come back to bite us in those two games, because Pete was expecting the Defense to hold onto the lead by going with the failing Prevent Defense.
When we lost to the Lions, Pete would have done well by adopting Wilsons resolve, and not make the same mistake again.
Is it possible that by going a little more with Wilson in that Miami game that we still lose?, certainly, but we'll never know for sure.
Pete stuck to his guns and it worked against him because he played right into the Dolphins Coaches game plans.
Pete didn't have near enough lead to rest on keeping with his run game.
He didn't have enough score cushioning to stay predictable.
I guess what gets me the most, is that Pete isn't making use of all the advantages that he has at his disposal.
 

mikeak

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Scutterhawk - unfortunately I call that the Norv Turner coaching philosophy......... Pete is not as bad but when it comes to having a lead and thinking that now all you need to do is protect it their mindset sure seems very alike.

For any Europeans - this is like watching Italy play soccer :D
 

gargantual

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mikeak":16aiy00q said:
Sgt. Largent":16aiy00q said:
We ran on 16 of 23 first downs, to the tune of 1.8 yard average. We ran THE LAST EIGHT FIRST DOWNS OF THE GAME.

This right here is the bigger picture item beyond this thread. People wonder why people come here and complain about playcalling. Numbers like this screams PREDICTABILITY

I went here: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs

Now if I misunderstand these numbers please tell me and I will correct the post. I copied that chart to excel

The sum of all teams is 7,061 first downs. 647 of those are classifieds as penalties so I removed them from the equation. I then summed up the number of first down runs and first down pass by all NFL teams.

33% of the plays are Run and 67% are Pass........if you leave the flag plays there the number goes to 30% and 61% and 9% turns into penalties.

So the league as a whole runs onlye 33% of the time on first down!!!!!

We go to Miami a team known for stopping the run very well and lack of good corners open to the passing game. We run the ball almost 70%!!!!!! on first down against that team?T Twice the league average against this team - amazing
Seems crazy, doesn't it?

Like Sgt. Largent said, "Dude was rolling", if a QB is hot - PLAY THE GUY. Maybe I'm missing something here? Although Pete DID say he was mistaken on Brock and Salk. Said basically that they weren't expecting them to surge to somany points at the end. This slim margin crap is really starting to suck.
 

hawker84

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when you run the ball and get stuffed on 1st and 2nd, you're putting you're rookie qb in the worst position possible 3rd and long, especially with our pass blocking.. we repeatedly do this every game.... to think he has put up the numbers he has is amazing to me, shows just how much poise this young man has... his most success comes from play action, deep, dump offs, or scrambling.. most of his failures seems to come from dropping straight back and the "O" line does their O'lay technique and he's gets creamed or flushed out of the pocket. they need to mix it up, keep the D guessing, which will lead to more managable 3rd and shorts.. he's ready, give him the reigns and let him loose....
 

jlwaters1

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Poeple let's get a grip here. PC even said in his presser on WED that in retrospect he should have let him throw it more. But I could see their reasoning. The majority of the year we've had great success (especially the last 2 games) of running the ball late in games. It didn't happen on Sunday.

The fact is The offense was moving well and milking the clock in that final offensive drive. We hit McCoy for a big gainer which all we needed was 1 more first down to close out the game. Unfortunately the play calls didn't work and then the defense folded like a wet cardboard box. I did notice like some of you we seemed to revert back to the GB playcalling of run,run, pass on 3rd and long.

But there is a method to their madness. There's a natural progression for most QB's. I could cite several examples but with reference just 3 recent QB's. All are on really good players. I'm speaking of Big Ben, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco .

I firmly beleive that the model PC and JS want to emulate is how the Steelers, Falcons (to a lesser extend), Ravens have done things. Relying on a strong running game and a good defense to carry the day. But you see with these players their average pass attempts grow as their roles expand in the offense.

Ryan averaged 27.12 passes a game as a rookie-- A steady progression upward with 2012=39 attempts/game
Flacco averaged 26.75 passes a game--- with 2012= 35.63 attempts per game
Big Ben aveaged just 21.07 passes as a rookie-- Before being hurt was averaging= 35.11 attempts per game.

Russell Wilson is averaging 25.45 passes a game. I firmly expect them to give him more throws throughout the rest of this year and I beleive that next year he'll be attempting 30-32 passes a game. To me I'm not concerned by the lack of attempts. This is a process and he's exceeding with the what he's allowed to do. I forsee his role expanding next year as did, Big Ben, Ryan, and Flacco's did following their rookie campaigns.

For the remainder of this year I hope they give him closer to 30 throws a game and allow him to throw more frequently on 1st down like they did the last several weeks.
 

gargantual

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Good points jlwaters. The misery deriving from another one tacked onto the "L" column. I almost keep forgetting it was only by a fieldgoal, at LITERALLY the last second.

Stat rationalization that it truly is......you can't squeek a win (the fins did) any closer than that!
 
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