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 Post subject: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:39 pm 
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"A Different Take On Sherman & Browner" http://www.hawkblogger.com/
Simply superb article by Hawkblogger (and the follow up comment as well about the hypocrisy of fans moralizing about PEDs while expecting athletes to overuse painkillers).

Always a great place for level-headed kool-aid free analysis, but in particular the last paragraph of this article made some very reassuring points, like: "Fans should just keep in mind that Carroll has never needed top-flight talent at corner to field a great defense." Hopefully this is pointing out something some haven't seen yet. Good stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:47 pm 
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Sherman and Browner both are up for Pro Bowl spots. Sherman has been in the running for NFL Defensive Player of the Year. They have no prior history, as Hill did, that would indicate drug use is part of their make-up. Sherman has been one of the most fan-friendly athletes in recent Seattle history. He makes time for people at public training camps. He interacts with fans on Twitter. He attends local events, and makes himself available for media more than most guys are willing to do.Yet, he and Browner are already being labeled as cheaters. What's worse, Seahawks fans in large numbers are rushing to be among the first to denounce them. For what? To be morally correct? I don't see how one could argue the moral choice is to disparage someone without knowing anything more than scant media reports. I much prefer to stand behind these players. The worst-case scenario is that I supported people I believe in when many people didn't, and would be disappointed if they are proven to have made a mistake. I can live with that far easier than finding out I participated in the character assassination of two people I cheer for, only to find out they were wrongly accused. Let fans from other teams tear down our Seahawks prematurely. I stand with them.


My thoughts exactly. :th2thumbs:

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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:25 am 
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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:05 am 
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Spot on.

Especially the part about playing more aggressive to cover up any potential shortcomings

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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:39 am 
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Fantastic read, great write up

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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:58 am 
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I love this. The best point was maybe the defense will discover that they play better after the scheme alterations are made. Maybe Gus hasn't been using guys in the right way but it was a big risk to play around with things mid-season. Now they have to anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:59 am 
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I also remember being impressed with Thurmond before his injury and I thought we were in big trouble when It happened. Who is this Sherman scrub they put in? I remember thinking...


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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:11 am 
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Sorry but to me the article sucks. I completely agree with not rushing to judgement but that to me also means not supporting them as innocent. This needs to play out then I will judge them.

Then lets move on in the article

"Adderall, is not a banned substance in the NFL" - and after that a bunch of stuff about how people with medical clearance can take it. Yes that is how banned substances in sport works. It is the same for certain asthma medications etc -- it is banned unless you have a legit use for it. If it wasn't banned there would be no pending suspension.......

Then later on "I will be disappointed in these guys if the accusations turn out to be true. I will still support them, and cheer for them, and defend them against people will want to label them as cheaters and bad people"

How is A related to B? Being a nice person, nice with fans, a great husband - father - brother community member is COMPLETELY unrelated to the fact of being a cheater or not. How can you state I will be dissapointed if the accusations are true but I will defend them against people that want to label them as cheaters??????

If they are suspended that means they took something - it means that they cheated so how are you going to defend them against people saying they are cheaters?. I am so tired of people taking illegal substances to get an edge. I am in the camp that said Armstrong cheated 10 years ago. I saw him before the cancer and I saw him after the cancer and it was a COMPLETELY different athlete. The first one couldn't bike in the mountains (he was a WC but that was "flat surface" and then he demolished people in the mountains - doesn't happen.

The thing with taking illegal substances is that you get an edge that allows you to be a professional athlete. Maybe the top guys would still be in the league just not as dominant, but the middle or bottom guys - they would be out. So their cheating forces the next guy the one that is a 5th to 7th round draft pick to say - should I live life clean and give up on my dream to play in the NFL or should I cheat like those other guys do and change the life of me and my family.

I understand why people so close to the top cheats. I fully get it and I see why they think it is worth it, but I will never condone it. Doesn't mean I think a cheater should be an outcast. He / she should get the suspension of their sport AND get extra testing for years afterwards.

It disgusts me that Brian Cushing got the defensive rookie of the year in 2009 and then was suspended for a test before the next season began.

I expect to get flamed for this but this is how I feel regardless of the teams the player is on. I hope Browner and Sherman are deemed innocent but if they are not then they shouldn't be defended.....


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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:25 am 
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You guys are all on PED's if you like this article, it's reeks of "apologist."

1. Adderall isn't a banned PED? Umm, yes it is......unless you have a prescription. Which if either player did, the suspensions wouldn't have been handed down.

2. We all make mistakes, so don't judge? That's also crap. Players, and specifically DB's have been getting banned for Adderall all year, and Moffit got slapped for it too, and he's on their damn team. So if Sherman and Browner were indeed guilty of taking it, then that's just plain stupid. I will judge, guilty of stupid.

3. Not going to be a drop off because of Bradley's system? Sorry, can't buy that one. You don't take two of the top 10 DB's in the league out of your lineup and expect to not lose a step on defense.

I do agree with waiting til the appeals process is over. I hope the tests were wrong, but if they're not, then both Browner and Sherman will lose some of their credibility, and rightly so. Not the end of the world, they didn't murder anyone, they didn't get caught smoking crack........but sorry Hawkblogger, they will be guilty of stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:32 am 
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Sgt Largent - you should just have written agree with above :D


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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:32 am 
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Everyone in the NFL is using some sort of PE Substance to get an edge, and we would be naive to think that only a few are using banned substances. If Sherman and Browner did take a banned PED and they do get suspended, I would only ask that they please not get caught next time. As far as Thurmond, Lane and Maxwell filling in, it sounds like the defense will be fine. I guess the bigges impact would be who would fill in for them if they miss a few plays or a game. And how will ST be affected?

It would be interesting to see a list of the players suspended for taking a banned PED over the past three years. I don't recall and impactful offensive player ever getting suspended, but plenty of impactful defensive players.


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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:44 am 
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Winston Guy also just was suspended for this same deal. It's quite sad.

The article is midleading. There is an article on NFL.com that says that it's not enough to have a prescription for Adderall, it must be made known to the NFL as well and they have a vetting process. You can't just say I got a prescription last week and I'm good, it league has to approve it.


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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:47 am 
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mikeak wrote:
Sgt Largent - you should just have written agree with above :D


Lol.......we were writing at the same time. But yeah, what he said ^^^^^^

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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:17 am 
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SoCalSeahawk wrote:
Everyone in the NFL is using some sort of PE Substance to get an edge, and we would be naive to think that only a few are using banned substances. If Sherman and Browner did take a banned PED and they do get suspended, I would only ask that they please not get caught next time. .


I differ -- I say use the data to push for MORE testing, more frequent both during season and off-season. These guys make millions pee in a cup to prove that you are clean no problem with that requirement. Testing will always be behind but at least keep pushing things to where they need to be.

Track and Field is way tougher on this stuff.

2 year suspension first time offense and Track and Field sports is what got the wheels to come off the Balco bus which led to the whole MLB issue........


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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:07 am 
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I do agree with waiting til the appeals process is over.


Sure doesn't sound like it.

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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:20 am 
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Sgt. Largent wrote:
You guys are all on PED's if you like this article, it's reeks of "apologist."

1. Adderall isn't a banned PED? Umm, yes it is......unless you have a prescription. Which if either player did, the suspensions wouldn't have been handed down.

2. We all make mistakes, so don't judge? That's also crap. Players, and specifically DB's have been getting banned for Adderall all year, and Moffit got slapped for it too, and he's on their damn team. So if Sherman and Browner were indeed guilty of taking it, then that's just plain stupid. I will judge, guilty of stupid.

3. Not going to be a drop off because of Bradley's system? Sorry, can't buy that one. You don't take two of the top 10 DB's in the league out of your lineup and expect to not lose a step on defense.

I do agree with waiting til the appeals process is over. I hope the tests were wrong, but if they're not, then both Browner and Sherman will lose some of their credibility, and rightly so. Not the end of the world, they didn't murder anyone, they didn't get caught smoking crack........but sorry Hawkblogger, they will be guilty of stupid.


Really no way of getting around this part, "they will be guilty of stupid." No arguing that.

I STILL agree with the comment after the article pointing out: where's the outrage about pain-killers? Fans, teammates and even coaches publicly berating athletes about turning down (perhaps dangerous levels) of pain-killers to ARTIFICALLY affect the time-table to return to the field, how is that NOT a performance influencing drug (one could say another form of PED)? The first thing that might enter the mind is, well we're talking league approved drugs vs ones that are NOT. That's a valid point, but that opens the whole larger conversation of right/moral vs legal. The two AREN'T interchangeable.

And going to Sunday School as a kid taught two wrongs don't make a right after all.

Ask Kenny Easley what he thinks about this whole subject. It ended his career and is still detrimental to his life TO THIS DAY! (great article about that here btw: http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20110910/SPORTS/709109999/1004&template=mobileart)

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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:36 pm 
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Yeah we'll see how much Pete doesn't need top flight talent at Cornerback when two of the best corner's in the league are serving their suspension. Your tune will change quickly on this subject mark my words. Browner and SHermans absence will be felt in an incredibly bad way.


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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:21 pm 
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bellingerga wrote:
Yeah we'll see how much Pete doesn't need top flight talent at Cornerback when two of the best corner's in the league are serving their suspension. Your tune will change quickly on this subject mark my words. Browner and SHermans absence will be felt in an incredibly bad way.

No question there. I just liked the thought (that hadn't occurred to me before) that this may open opportunities in other area, like the Bandit did in 2010. Pete has shown a talent at times to excel at creativity when his back was against the wall (the old Aesop concept, Necessity is the Mother of Invention).

I see that as one of his greatest strengths and maybe one of the problems we're having now, teams knowing what we'll do too much of the time? I can still hear all the griping (120% justified) around here in Holmy's last few years about how everyone (even us couch riding schmucks) could predict which play was coming next during that time (Fullback draw anyone?). I know he was all about superior execution (them knowing what's coming and can't stop it anyway), but predictability hurt us when the personnel couldn't sustain that strategy, and maybe being forced by necessity will bring out strengths we don't even know are there in other areas?

I seem to have the most fun watching my Hawks when spectacularly unexpected things happen (Leon ripping off a KR TD, Red blocking a kick multiple times in one game, pretty much any time Marshawn or Golden touch the ball). So what I'm saying is my feelings of near certainty on Monday that the season was over has morphed into "Well unpredictability just might be something we need right now" - obviously having the 2 top corner combo is preferable if we have the choice (which we don't) , but it might actually work to surprise few teams (and propel us into the playoffs), and probably end up being a helluva ride to boot!

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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:31 pm 
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Even if they are guilty I will not be in the group chastising them to the hilt because this is a thing that is rampant in the league and only gets punished when they decide to pick some from the crowd just like the NCAA coming down on USC so hard when what they were doing is practically protocol at every big school...
Get off your high horses and root for your players! GO HAWKS!

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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:43 pm 
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I haven't seen anyone denouncing them?

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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:43 pm 
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dunceface wrote:
Even if they are guilty I will not be in the group chastising them to the hilt because this is a thing that is rampant in the league and only gets punished when they decide to pick some from the crowd just like the NCAA coming down on USC so hard when what they were doing is practically protocol at every big school...
Get off your high horses and root for your players! GO HAWKS!


Why can't I be in the middle somewhere?

Sorry, but this is more complex than just "EITHER YOU'RE WITH EM OR AGAINST EM!" If Browner and Sherman are guilty, I stand by my "you guys are dumb" statement. Doesn't mean I want em' kicked off the team, but yeah they're credibility is going to be knocked down a few rungs in my book.

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 Post subject: Re: A great article by Hawkblogger
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:50 pm 
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What he said ^^^^

I stated in my original post that if they are guilty (still an IF) then they should get the penalty and then we move on. They should take the penalty shut up about and not cheat again. If a player is caught taking illegal substances he cheated and that is it. You move on after that and they can still be great people, athletes and pieces of society.

It is not murder or beating your wife it is taking something illegal and you move on (and no I don't move on from people beating their wife which is why I can't stand Jason Kidd)


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