I want a new playcaller

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Re: I want a new playcaller
Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:29 pm
  • What's disappointing was that we had the talent and the coaching to get us this win. We just took the fins too lightly coming off our bye. We knew they were very good against the run but in retrospect we underestimated them BIG TIME.
    Offense came out flat and recovered but couldn't finish the task on the final drive. Defense looked lost and winded late in the game. Conservative playcalling by coaches with the decision to stick with obvious run plays on early downs resulting in obvious passing 3rd downs. I felt our team loss some gusto when PC decided to punt on a 4th-and-1 on their 37 yardline. Our morale never recovered and when we flopped on our final drive setting up the fins for a final drive for the win--the dolphins uncharacteristicly developed a taste for blood and finished the job.
    Playoff contenders need an edge to win games on the road. We just don't have that edge yet.
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Re: I want a new playcaller
Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:44 pm
  • justafan wrote:Watch the game again and tell me what you see.If you still have trouble understanding the % of pass plays and run plays called let me know.Math can be kinda tricky sometimes.


    You're obviously right dude. We passed it 32 times despite the stats saying we made only 27 passing attempts and like you say let's just round that percentage of pass plays up to 60%. Hell, I'll do you one better and say it's almost 2/3 like you say. Then again, 60% is closer to 100% than 0% so let's just say 100% of plays were passes. Yep, dot math really helped me with my understanding of statistics just as it has for you.
    Funny how math is so tricky and subjective right? It's a wonder they even teach it in schools. :sarcasm_off:
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Re: I want a new playcaller
Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:00 pm
  • Russ Willstrong wrote:Yea it's easy to take the 5 Wilson 'run' plays and assume they were qb scrambles on passing plays--just not the case. Lynch+Turbin's+Rice's carries > 21 runs you stated earlier. And that's nowhere near the 60/40% ratio you seem to think we had.


    The 5 Wilson run plays were not all designed runs. Maybe one or 2 were. The others were drop back passes.
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Re: I want a new playcaller
Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:36 pm
  • Tech Worlds wrote:
    Russ Willstrong wrote:Yea it's easy to take the 5 Wilson 'run' plays and assume they were qb scrambles on passing plays--just not the case. Lynch+Turbin's+Rice's carries > 21 runs you stated earlier. And that's nowhere near the 60/40% ratio you seem to think we had.


    The 5 Wilson run plays were not all designed runs. Maybe one or 2 were. The others were drop back passes.


    I never said the 5 Wilson runs were all designed runs. I said they can't all be counted as drop back passing plays as justafan implied. There were one or two zone read option plays (one where Wilson nearly got killed two yards behind the line of scrimmage). Several scrambles off passing plays. Bottom line is he NEVER passed 32 times and run merely 21 times as stated by justafan and even if he did pass for 40 I'd been okay. Also there's no need to round up percentages just to support your opinions.

    I just suppose there are fans who felt we didn't call enough run plays in this game. You one of them?
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Re: I want a new playcaller
Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:50 pm
  • @willstrong I already admitted I made a mistake.I forgot about the zone read and the QB draw.
    That puts it at 32 designed pass plays.27 passes 3 scrambles and 2 sacks.24 designed run plays.57.1% vs 42.9% runs.Even though the main argument was about Lynch and Turbin getting to many carries.37.5% of all plays.
    Now excuse me while I punch myself in the junk for even discussing this with you.
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Re: I want a new playcaller
Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:09 pm
  • justafan wrote:@willstrong I already admitted I made a mistake.I forgot about the zone read and the QB draw.
    That puts it at 32 designed pass plays.27 passes 3 scrambles and 2 sacks.24 designed run plays.57.1% vs 42.9% runs.Even though the main argument was about Lynch and Turbin getting to many carries.37.5% of all plays.
    Now excuse me while I punch myself in the junk for even discussing this with you.


    No need. We can agree to disagree about Bevell's playcalling. I just felt that 27 attempted passes were not sufficient to get it done-even if we called >30 intended passing plays to get those 27 throws. We stuck with the run plays on early downs for way too long hoping fins would wear down and we were wrong. We knew the fins strengths/weakness and eventually began to exploit the defense with Wilson's accuracy and mobility but couldn't sustain.
    Big eye-opener was that even with Wilson having a hot hand he only made 1 more throw than Tannehill. What's also frustrating is that Wilson threw for less than 30 times on a day when our run game nonexistent.
    What's going to happen if we get into the playoffs and in a game where Lynch is held in check? I just hope we can make in game adjustments necessary to get to the playoffs.
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Re: I want a new playcaller
Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:30 pm
  • justafan wrote:@willstrong I already admitted I made a mistake.I forgot about the zone read and the QB draw.
    That puts it at 32 designed pass plays.27 passes 3 scrambles and 2 sacks.24 designed run plays.57.1% vs 42.9% runs.Even though the main argument was about Lynch and Turbin getting to many carries.37.5% of all plays.
    Now excuse me while I punch myself in the junk for even discussing this with you.


    And those passing plays had 16 completed in a row. How many POSITIVE run plays did we have in a row? I almost want to bet we had more negative run plays in a row...........

    Point being we should have started the game airing it out. It was pointed out on this website BEFORE the game as that was the Miami weakness. Once the pass got established the running game could possibly have opened it up.

    That is what people don't like about the game plan.......... I recall at least two run, run, pass for first down on the last drive which we had to score on but I think there were 3 or 4.......not sure if someone has the game on the DVR they can confirm if they feel like it
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Re: I want a new playcaller
Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:46 pm
  • ESPN has a play by play in the boxscore if you wanted to see.It was 9 plays with 4 of them being runs.They did start one series run run which left a 3rd and 4.I dont have a problem with them running and throwing safe passes on that drive.They were trying to burn up the 5 mins and not give miami any time to do what they did to us.Unfortunately it didnt work.
    Some people blame playcalling I just think execution sucked more
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Re: I want a new playcaller
Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:08 pm
  • So back to the "playcaller" part of the OP, who can say they have studied Bevell in his pre-Seahawk days? I have not, but it kind of seemed like his name got some buzz primarily after that one great Brett Favre year in MN. Is that accurate? What was Bevell known for before that season? What's the consensus on the Vikings' offensive success of 2009? How much of it was Bevell's system/playcalling and how much of it was Favre being one of the all-time best improvisors at the QB position?
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Re: I want a new playcaller
Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:47 pm
  • justafan wrote:You could blame the play call or you could blame Unger for being driven 4 yrds into the backfield before the play even develops,or you could blame Carp for allowing the backside DE running untouched right in front of him to tackle Lynch from behind,same with Breno allowing his guy making backside plays for no gain..untouched,maybe blame Robinson for running right by the LB filling the gap allowing him to make a tackle for no gain.
    The dolphins played a tough game but this Oline consistently failed at getting any push at the point of attack rarely getting helmets on the lbs. or backside DEs allowing them to fly around and make plays.
    Carp played soft slow and stupid.I don't know if he is still hurt but he can't cut block for s**t,just seems to lean on players and gets caught standing around too often.Breno isn't the answer at RT and RGs weren't much better.I know people don't want to draft Olineman again but this unit needs help.They are not the tough physical oline people make them out to be.The Oline and Oline coach were the root of the problem Sunday not the playcalls.


    Part of the problem but not the root. This problem is multi faceted. And the plays called in the last drive were game losers and not game winners. The dolphins said wtf we might as well sling it, they can't stop it. We were doing the same but stopped when it was winning time. I want bevell g o n e.
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Re: I want a new playcaller
Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:05 pm
  • The biggest issue I had was how consistently we ran it on first down with 8-10 players in the box. It was obvious, we never went away from it, and it led to 1.8 YPC on first down. Then on the screen passes, the Dolphins were all up close to the line, so of course we aren't going to get a positive play, even if they weren't blitzing.

    1) We call games not to lose instead of trying to win. I can guarentee if the Pats or Packers were in our situation at the end of the game Brady/Rodgers are throwing it down the field to score a touchdown, not milk the clock and hope we can get in FG range.

    2) We are too conservative. Again, if the Pats/Packers were on their 38 yard line with a 4th and 1 like we had a few times, they are going to go for it. Instead we punt it to be safe. It's great whoever makes the decision to do that trusts our defense, but equal trust needs to be in our offense.

    3) Stop sticking with what isn't working even if it is 'who we are.' The perfect example in this thread was the 49ers game where they aired it out on the Bears. RW was TORCHING their defense in the second half and yet we continued to run directly at their best players up in the middle. Marshawn's best run of the day was when we actually kicked it outside.... The blame can be placed on our O-line, sure, they didn't play well, but then why did we stick with it if they were frequently getting beat?

    4) If Bevell is going to call a soft game, I hope RW is allowed to call his own audibles from here on out. When they have 9 defenders in the box and Bevell calls in a run up the middle, I really really hope RW has the ability to audible into a quick slant or out. Keep doing those plays until they stop loading the box, then run it up the middle all you want. It sounds like it is common sense, but I have yet to see that happen.

    Also, please bring Norv Turner in to be our O coordinator/QB coach. He would do wonders for RW and could focus only on offense.
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Re: I want a new playcaller
Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:47 pm
  • Unless Pete has Bevell on a tight leash, in which case this is Pete's fault, Bevell gets the majority of the blame for this game. Yes o-line play stunk, but those matchups weren't changing so change the plays.

    The only good thing we have that came from Minnesota is Rice.
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Re: I want a new playcaller
Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:52 pm
  • CaptainSkybeard wrote:The only good thing we have that came from Minnesota is Rice.


    And the movie Fargo. Don't forget that.
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Re: I want a new playcaller
Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:57 pm
  • CaptainSkybeard wrote:Unless Pete has Bevell on a tight leash, in which case this is Pete's fault, Bevell gets the majority of the blame for this game. Yes o-line play stunk, but those matchups weren't changing so change the plays.

    The only good thing we have that came from Minnesota is Rice.


    Rice was definitely a good pickup and hopefully he'll stay healthy for a long time. I'm still holding hope that Bevell will develop into a very good offensive coordinator. He's got the mind and the pedigree. He just needs to open up his offense like he did with Brett Favre. There were some good signs in recent games that he is headed that route. I'm a Bevell critic but I've watched and cheered for his teams since I lived most of my life in Wisconsin and Minnesota.

    His coaching influences can be traced to Barry Alvarez (UW-Madison), Brad Childress (Minnesota) and indirectly to Holmgren's WC offense (via Mike Sherman and Childress). A son of a coach, Bevell was a bright young qb coming out of highschool and developed a relationship with Childress who recruited him while coach at NAU. Prior to Childress's stint at NAU he was an assistant coach at Madison for Barry Alvarez. Needless to say that Bevell got Childress's blessings when he chose to walk on at UW-Madison and eventually starting all 4 years culminating in two Rose Bowl appearances and two passing records. He was a very efficient game-manager type qb in college and the Alvarez passing game/offense was as frustrating to watch many of these Bevell offenses. Wisconsin had an excuse because they couldn't recruit top passers despite having some very good talents at offensive line, running back and receivers. The offense was predicated on a physically superior line and great running talent. The game-manager type quarterback was necessary because the philosophy was ball-control and to minimize turnovers--sound familiar? During Bevell's stint as OC in Minnesota the offensive philosophy was still to establish the run first and win the time of possession. After Brett Favre arrived in Minnesota to immense fanfare and huge expections we saw early struggles similar to what Seattle has seen this year. There was similar talk in Minnesota even with a HOF quarterback about how much should we open the passing game and what was the best run/pass ratios. This talk isn't new to Bevell's ears. In Minnesota he eventually worked with Brett to open up the offense which resulted in some very creative plays for Brett, Rice and Harvin.
    That is why I hold onto hope. I just have to weather this dull playcalling and hope it doesn't do in the Seahawks as it did the Vikings in the NFC championship against and aggressive Saints team.
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Re: I want a new playcaller
Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:08 pm
  • Oh and although the Wisconsin badgers were okay with a game-manager type qb for all those years, last year badger fans were gifted a great talent in Russell Wilson and now realize how much we've been missing on offense. Wisconsin's offense hasn't been the same this year without RW. Now there's talk in some forums about firing the OC and maybe getting Bevell back to Madtown as OC with coach Beleima which won't happen.
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Re: I want a new playcaller
Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:23 pm
  • Cool. Many thanks for the background, Willstrong. It's funny how things make more sense when you get a little history. :)
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