I'm reading Pete Carrol's book. The first thing is that he comes off as sort of a touchy-feely "player's coach". This is motivating for college players - helps them play up to their full potential, but in the NFL guys are pros and already playing to their full potential. When PC went on that incredible run at UCS the Trojan coaching staff were running this hardcore practice regimine to get the players to run the plays as precisely as humanly possible, with an emphasis on game execution. Again, this brought these players up to a level that is rare in college, but not in the pros where the players already know how to execute at the highest level.

Carrol is a "player's coach", with the emphasis on "competing". On page 84 in the book he says "Competition to me is not about beating the opponent. It's about doing your best."

I read that and I was like WFT?!? In the pros you better be about beating your opponent. This motivation rah-rah thing will get you a lot of wins in college where you are working with guys coming out of high school, but is far less effective in the pros where they are already playing at close to their highest potential.

I don't think PC is a bad NFL coach, just not a great one. Maybe a 500 NFL coach. Schnieder deserves a lot of credit for the Seahawks at this point.

You realize this same stuff was said the day he was hired and every day after, right?

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Nobody ever talks about this stuff when Pete's winning.

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Your not thinking about this from a psychological standpoint is the problem. Pete's mantra is not do be "rah-rah" and baby the players into winning. His strategy is one all great CEOs and others leaders use, which is to pull the best out of each individual by motivating him to be his best. He uses positive re-inforcement to guide the players in the right direction, which is why people get the "rah-rah" vibe from him. Some other coaches use a more corrective negative reinforcement strategy to motivate their players, which works in some situations also.

Sigh.

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Considering they have turned around the roster in just over 2 years to the point that we are talking playoffs I would say he has done a pretty good job. He has 1 playoff win thus far under his belt which a lot of current coaches cant say. I don't think we will know if Pete's coaching style works or will be able to accurately judge him till after next year. They have had a plan since day 1 and have stuck to it. Pete does have a superbowl ring, safe to say his coaching worked.

Is it Pete's week this week? I realize after a loss this forum and its members love to point fingers and try to fire or cut someone. I wish a better forum history was kept so we could bump threads later on.

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"??? How do you know he's awful? We've seen the guy play 2 regular season games." -SoulfishHawk
"16 starts in 9 years is all you need to know." - Tsizzle
"OMFG! LOL! Are you for real?" -ivotuk

I do understand that. But a college player's potential is just a hell of a lot higher than a pro player's potential - the pro is already at close to as good as he is capable of playing. So PC is slightly effective in the pros, but highly effective in college.

Topics the week after a win= Can any team beat us?
Topics the week after a loss= Pete Carroll is officially on the hot seat.

Ive never seen such a bipolar fan base. Not everybody is like this, but theres tons on this board.

The competition mantra is healthy. His approach to coaching the players seems to work. His problem is game planning. He needs to learn that it's OK to go with a hot hand in a game even when it strays from his philosophy.

If Wilson is hot and the passing game is working then ride his arm like a rented mule. If the zone is getting picked apart by worthless teams then go man coverage and blitz the hell out of teams.

I have only been posting here this year, I had NO IDEA that the Seahawks fan base was like this. I enjoy reading the informational posts, but the "bipolar" act is disappointing to me.

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"??? How do you know he's awful? We've seen the guy play 2 regular season games." -SoulfishHawk
"16 starts in 9 years is all you need to know." - Tsizzle
"OMFG! LOL! Are you for real?" -ivotuk

No they aren't. That's why the draft is all about potential and not about sure things.

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My single greatest contribution to the board: "42-13" (formerly 24-14)

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Give me some damn skittles...

I think PC is an example of the "Peter Principle" where a guy who is great on one level will be promoted until he is on a level where he is mediocre. PC is a great DC, but he never stuck at that level.

This topic is idiotic! We are currently set to make the playoffs and people still want to rip on Carroll.

Anyone have a link to Matt Hasselbeck's interview where he oozes praise and belief in Carroll in just his 1 year playing for him?

I'm going to call bullcrap on that. In fact, most college players have been taught nothing. Did you play in high school? I did and felt I had no understanding of the game or technique. I knew our 20 plays by heart, but that's about all. I didn't even understand who was to cover who.

I got to college and started understanding the game because my dad was a coach and would explain things to me, but a lot of college players are completely raw. They still don't understand. My friend at work was first team all conference on a team that finished in the top 10. He said he had no idea how defenses even functioned until he was a senior. i was explaining things and he goes "geez, did you play in the NFL?" I said, "No, but my dad was a coach, and then I coached, and I've studied a ton of stuff and can see what is going on at a little different level than your average fan." He goes, "Seriously you'd be surprised how many players know nothing beyond what they do in a specific formation. I didn't have any idea what the LB's and DB's were doing behind me. I knew when I was to hold the line, when I was to stunt, when I was to shoot a gap, and when I was to drop back into coverage which was almost never. That's all I needed to know, and that is depressing considering that we were a top ten team and I got invited to the combine."

He gets it now and we have really in depth discussions, but he felt that he would have a ton to learn in the NFL and felt many guys weren't capable of learning it.

The fact that Pete has degrees that make him a "real teacher" shows me that he can get more out of players by teaching them first what is going on overall from an X's and O's perspective. I taught 6th graders the basics and they were blown away about what was going on and played as such a cohesive unit.

I feel the vast majority of teams in college basically just try to make it through the season. They don't do massive film study and have players at their full potential. Bruce Irvin was playing at a top program and knew one move and admitted that he didn't receive any specific coaching. They just told him to go get the QB. He did. But we've seen him grow.

Look at Chris Clemons and his career or Patrick Kerney. They got progressively better by leaps and bounds as they learned the nuances of the game. I think there is many times exponential growth from college to the pros in understanding and therefore performance. Why do you think Holmgren was so successful. He was a certified teacher and made sure he sat down in a classroom and assured that every single guy on the team knew what was happening on every play. Look at how K-Rob blocked. He wasn't known as a blocker in college, but when he knew what was happening on the play he'd run his route like it was coming to him as a disguise and then turn and start blocking just as the run was coming up on him. For all of his faults as an actual pass catcher, I've seen very few guys ever who were as great at blocking from the WR position and had such great awareness of the running play coming near him and his need to change from looking like he was running a crisp route expecting the ball to becoming essentially a lineman downfield.

Pete is putting in a system where he expects a lot from everybody. This is not an overnight process. In education the mantra is that it takes 3 full years to make a noticeable change in an institution (school, district, state, etc.). I feel that with his organization he's made a good change in 3 years. We're sitting on 6 wins right now. We finished with 7 the previous 2. I think we win 9 this year, which sets up for exactly what I'd predict as a fellow educator. The 4th year should see a significant jump as everything is fully in place. He's doing things right by me. It doesn't always work, but like all great teachers, Pete learns something every week. Now his OC and DC may not... but I know he does and covers it. His pressers show that he clearly understands the issues and what needs to be attacked in the week ahead.

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R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
1/12/39 - 8/7/08

He's 6-5 this season in contention for a wild card spot, one playoff win, rebuilt the team, and you want to invoke the Peter Principle? Save that for Norv Turner or Wade Phillips.

You are taking this loss way too hard.

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Give me some damn skittles...

Bye bye Lord of Scythia! Feel free to Come back and post in a couple years when/if we start losing on a regular basis. Until then, I assume we won't hear from you about anything else.

Oh Jesus H. Christ.

Well...since we're all here anyways:

WE NEED A QB CHANGE! RUSSELL WILSON ISN'T GETTING IT DONE! HE'S NOT THE ANSWER. WE WOULD HAVE WON THE LIONS AND DOLPHINS GAMES WITH MATT FLYNN AT QUARTERBACK!

Unless you honestly think the team he inherited in 2010 is better than the current incarnation I don't know how you could believe his coaching doesn't work.

If you do believe the 2010 Seahawks were better than there's really nothing anyone can do for you.

As disappointed as I may be in the road losses I realize this is a very young team that is very close to being very good.

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