Sherman and Browner facing suspension

Sarlacc83 · Nov 26, 2012

Still hoping this was a case of contaminated specimens. Seems more likely because both players got hit for the same thing at once.

SharkHawk · Nov 26, 2012

kmedic":1xwptp9q said:
CrimsonWazzu":1xwptp9q said:

kmedic":1xwptp9q said:

I agree with PatsFan- cmon guys, when has a guy getting caught doing Adderal ever had his suspension reversed? And don't you think it's just a little too coincidental that 3 DB's on the same team get caught doing this crap within a couple months? There's obviously a bad apple in the group and I wanna know who it is.

Click to expand...

Every guy in that locker room knows what Adderall is and what it can do for them, and they all know it's banned by the NFL. All those guys made their own choices.

"I wanna know who it is." I kinda lol'ed at that. So you can take him to task on the boards? There is no "bad apple", some shady character on the practice squad in the locker room whose sole purpose is to score drugs. The guys rolled the dice, a majority of guys in professional sports do at some point in their career. They got caught, they'll pay the consequences.

Click to expand...

Wait, so you think this scenario played out? Sherm wants to up his game so after careful introspective thought, convinces himself, hey, let me try taking Adderal and get away with it. I'll ask my primary care doctor or some other shady doctor for a Rx and "roll the dice". Maybe my buddy BB will do the same....

I'm sorry I don't buy that- I think the much more believable scenario was, some dude on the roster, maybe on the active or practice squad, or maybe even an agent, says to Sherm and Browner over dinner or drinks, "yo dude, you guys need to show the 49ers what's up on national TV, I got some good stuff to give you that edge, maybe get you an INT or 2 in front of the whole nation. You might get caught but I got a way for you not to." Of course, it didn't work, but the fact is, my belief is that these guys got influenced by someone. That same someone was probably the same guy who told Winston Guy that this stuff might make him into a starter instead of a bench warmer.

It's like the guy who got Alex Rodriguez into trouble with roids. Alex didn't obtain the PED's himself- it was a crony who infiltrated his social circle.

It wasn't exactly a crony who infiltrated his circle. It was his dumb cousin who worked as basically A-Rod's messenger boy. He went on Alex's directions to get a list of items in the DR under the guise of going to visit the family. Then he was traveling with A-rod everywhere, just as that guy who was with Bonds all the time. He didn't come to Barry, it was the other way around. It was the same with A-rod's cousin. He made a living as A-rod's "bodyguard", but was really just his gopher, and finally the Yankees had to ban him from all team facilities. Then they found out Alex was putting him up in hotel rooms wherever the team stayed and put an end to that as well showing him the clause in his contract that said if he used PED's they could void it. So the guy stayed away. He still keeps getting spotted on road trips however and with A-Rod during the offseason.

There isn't some case here where some baddy got a hold of Alex and convinced him to use PED's. Alex felt his game slipping (look at his last year in Texas and his first in New York). No way he took them only in Texas for a short time and then stopped. It was more likely he started to slip in Texas after about year 2 and then took them when he got to New York and it was pretty obvious as he gained at least 20 pounds of muscle. I pointed this out and was blasted by Yankees fans who claimed he was just growing into his body, but those who used the same argument on Bonds were labeled as delusional.

Alex was the instigator, not some slimy back alley guy. It was his kid cousin who was not that intelligent and idolized Alex. He was also not afraid to get busted bringing drugs into the country, because Alex would get him off by paying fines and such, but Alex couldn't be caught himself bringing a year's worth of drugs into the country. This is the same system Sosa was using. Having a drug mule bring stuff in from the DR where it is VERY easy to get and getting it into the states. That is why they didn't have the paper trail guys from the US did who were buying it from "aging prevention" docs through the internet in the USA or through Balco and Victor Conte.

kmedic · Nov 26, 2012

I'm not saying this situation is exactly the same as Alex's history, but I am saying that there is likely someone who is offering this stuff to the players, and to me it looks like someone who is in the social circle of the DB's. I really do not believe that Sherm and BB de novo thought that they should take Adderal out of the blue. Someone convinced them they could get away with it and fed it to them.

GeorgeKush · Nov 26, 2012

they will probably appeal and then won't have to serve their suspensions till next season

gpngc · Nov 26, 2012

So there are three scenarios:

1) They used Adderall to study playbooks/game film. It's widely used in the NFL to help study, just like it's widely used among college campuses in the US.

2) They used Adderall to mask physical PEDs (this theory hasn't been tested publicly but makes sense as a rumor and would explain the sudden outburst of Adderall in NFL circles).

3) They tested positive for something else but are publicly claiming Adderall because the league can't say what PED is actually is. This eliminates the stigma associated with physical PEDs.

Well now Sherman says he never took Adderall which doesn't make ANY sense on any level for him to say that regardless of which of the above is true.

SharkHawk · Nov 26, 2012

Sarlacc83":37vv7yi3 said:
Still hoping this was a case of contaminated specimens. Seems more likely because both players got hit for the same thing at once.

Adderall is VERY easy to test for. Contaminated samples aren't likely unless they were all peeing into the same cup. The cup does the test. It has a strip of material on it that lights up for certain drug interactions. The cup is taken into a room and depending on the CBA the player is either watched, or they are in a room with somebody immediately outside the door. The sample is labeled with their name. They urinate in the sterile cup (they break the seal). They then put the cup in a compartment and the cup is removed from the compartment immediately upon their exit and the preliminary tests are run by observing the strip on the side. If something comes up they send off a "b" sample to a lab for further testing. This is how they then differentiate between a specific drug and just a class of drugs. For example, they can test positive for opioids, but then they can run a more specific test and find out what levels and such are going through the blood. I am sure a large percentage of players test positive for opioids due to post game use for immediate pain relief and are just sort of seen as no big deal and "par for the course", but when an amphetamine is picked up then they investigate further. This is probably why they are waiting an appeal. If it has gone to a lab and is verified as adderall, and they find a legitimate doctor who isn't a "farm" and their agent forgot to send in waiver paper work, or it was in process and for some reason there was a mixup (such as the player was given the go-ahead over the phone from the union, but it was a mess up in the process) then it could get thrown out. Another possibility is that they were prescribed the medication legitimately by a doctor during the lockout and called the union. They were told they couldn't get a waiver at that time as there was no contact between players and the league or teams, then they continued using it "as needed" (if that is how the prescription was written) then it could be seen as a paperwork snafu.

Those are the only cases where I can see that it was a mixup, but a contaminated sample is nearly impossible. However, I have had it happen to me once, it was an under-reading of a medication and they thought I wasn't taking it and was then diverting it. So the failure of the test was because I didn't have the drug in my system. They figured it was a one time thing and the test was just wrong. I never had an issue before or after that and they cleared it from my chart (I am in pain management and am pee tested every 28 days by a VERY ethical clinic). So I've been down this road every 28 days following the normal and best protocol for the last 4 years. They also check your pee temp by the way to make sure you weren't sneaking any in. Funny, but true.

Sarlacc83 · Nov 26, 2012

SharkHawk":2krg78jp said:
Sarlacc83":2krg78jp said:

Still hoping this was a case of contaminated specimens. Seems more likely because both players got hit for the same thing at once.

Click to expand...

Adderall is VERY easy to test for. Contaminated samples aren't likely unless they were all peeing into the same cup. The cup does the test. It has a strip of material on it that lights up for certain drug interactions. The cup is taken into a room and depending on the CBA the player is either watched, or they are in a room with somebody immediately outside the door. The sample is labeled with their name. They urinate in the sterile cup (they break the seal). They then put the cup in a compartment and the cup is removed from the compartment immediately upon their exit and the preliminary tests are run by observing the strip on the side. If something comes up they send off a "b" sample to a lab for further testing. This is how they then differentiate between a specific drug and just a class of drugs. For example, they can test positive for opioids, but then they can run a more specific test and find out what levels and such are going through the blood. I am sure a large percentage of players test positive for opioids due to post game use for immediate pain relief and are just sort of seen as no big deal and "par for the course", but when an amphetamine is picked up then they investigate further. This is probably why they are waiting an appeal. If it has gone to a lab and is verified as adderall, and they find a legitimate doctor who isn't a "farm" and their agent forgot to send in waiver paper work, or it was in process and for some reason there was a mixup (such as the player was given the go-ahead over the phone from the union, but it was a mess up in the process) then it could get thrown out. Another possibility is that they were prescribed the medication legitimately by a doctor during the lockout and called the union. They were told they couldn't get a waiver at that time as there was no contact between players and the league or teams, then they continued using it "as needed" (if that is how the prescription was written) then it could be seen as a paperwork snafu.

Those are the only cases where I can see that it was a mixup, but a contaminated sample is nearly impossible. However, I have had it happen to me once, it was an under-reading of a medication and they thought I wasn't taking it and was then diverting it. So the failure of the test was because I didn't have the drug in my system. They figured it was a one time thing and the test was just wrong. I never had an issue before or after that and they cleared it from my chart (I am in pain management and am pee tested every 28 days by a VERY ethical clinic). So I've been down this road every 28 days following the normal and best protocol for the last 4 years. They also check your pee temp by the way to make sure you weren't sneaking any in. Funny, but true.

That's good information. I was assuming, however, that the NFL drug policy tests for a bunch of different drugs at once, but then again, what do I know about the secret society that is the National Football League.

Sgt. Largent · Nov 26, 2012

GeorgeKush":1d11rlhs said:
they will probably appeal and then won't have to serve their suspensions till next season

What?

Appeal process will be done this week, which means suspensions will be immediately served.

Again, I may be wrong, but I can't recall a NFL drug suspension being lessened or overturned. The owness is on the player for knowing what's going into his body, no excuses.

GeorgeKush · Nov 26, 2012

Sgt. Largent":3pqxlc0h said:
GeorgeKush":3pqxlc0h said:

they will probably appeal and then won't have to serve their suspensions till next season

Click to expand...

What?

Appeal process will be done this week, which means suspensions will be immediately served.

Again, I may be wrong, but I can't recall a NFL drug suspension being lessened or overturned. The owness is on the player for knowing what's going into his body, no excuses.

i thought you could play while it is being appealed. that's what happened to eric wright. his suspected adderall use was announced on 11/9 and he hasn't even started serving his suspension yet. i think it starts next week for him, which is 3 or 4 weeks after the announcement. and i agree, this suspension will be upheld. it just might be delayed and he might have to serve 2 of those games at the beginning of next season.

VancitySeahawk · Nov 26, 2012

Sgt. Largent":2nrbkjco said:
GeorgeKush":2nrbkjco said:

they will probably appeal and then won't have to serve their suspensions till next season

Click to expand...

What?

Appeal process will be done this week, which means suspensions will be immediately served.

Again, I may be wrong, but I can't recall a NFL drug suspension being lessened or overturned. The owness is on the player for knowing what's going into his body, no excuses.

Andre Brown.

Sarlacc83 · Nov 26, 2012

Sgt. Largent":3k9zvfzn said:
GeorgeKush":3k9zvfzn said:

they will probably appeal and then won't have to serve their suspensions till next season

Click to expand...

What?

Appeal process will be done this week, which means suspensions will be immediately served.

Again, I may be wrong, but I can't recall a NFL drug suspension being lessened or overturned. The owness is on the player for knowing what's going into his body, no excuses.

Don't worry. You are wrong.

Also, onus. The onus is on you to see the squiggly line telling you the word is wrong.

SharkHawk · Nov 26, 2012

Sarlacc83":srk1r3nh said:
SharkHawk":srk1r3nh said:

Sarlacc83":srk1r3nh said:

Still hoping this was a case of contaminated specimens. Seems more likely because both players got hit for the same thing at once.

Click to expand...

Adderall is VERY easy to test for. Contaminated samples aren't likely unless they were all peeing into the same cup. The cup does the test. It has a strip of material on it that lights up for certain drug interactions. The cup is taken into a room and depending on the CBA the player is either watched, or they are in a room with somebody immediately outside the door. The sample is labeled with their name. They urinate in the sterile cup (they break the seal). They then put the cup in a compartment and the cup is removed from the compartment immediately upon their exit and the preliminary tests are run by observing the strip on the side. If something comes up they send off a "b" sample to a lab for further testing. This is how they then differentiate between a specific drug and just a class of drugs. For example, they can test positive for opioids, but then they can run a more specific test and find out what levels and such are going through the blood. I am sure a large percentage of players test positive for opioids due to post game use for immediate pain relief and are just sort of seen as no big deal and "par for the course", but when an amphetamine is picked up then they investigate further. This is probably why they are waiting an appeal. If it has gone to a lab and is verified as adderall, and they find a legitimate doctor who isn't a "farm" and their agent forgot to send in waiver paper work, or it was in process and for some reason there was a mixup (such as the player was given the go-ahead over the phone from the union, but it was a mess up in the process) then it could get thrown out. Another possibility is that they were prescribed the medication legitimately by a doctor during the lockout and called the union. They were told they couldn't get a waiver at that time as there was no contact between players and the league or teams, then they continued using it "as needed" (if that is how the prescription was written) then it could be seen as a paperwork snafu.

Those are the only cases where I can see that it was a mixup, but a contaminated sample is nearly impossible. However, I have had it happen to me once, it was an under-reading of a medication and they thought I wasn't taking it and was then diverting it. So the failure of the test was because I didn't have the drug in my system. They figured it was a one time thing and the test was just wrong. I never had an issue before or after that and they cleared it from my chart (I am in pain management and am pee tested every 28 days by a VERY ethical clinic). So I've been down this road every 28 days following the normal and best protocol for the last 4 years. They also check your pee temp by the way to make sure you weren't sneaking any in. Funny, but true.

Click to expand...

That's good information. I was assuming, however, that the NFL drug policy tests for a bunch of different drugs at once, but then again, what do I know about the secret society that is the National Football League.

They do. The strip in the cup method lights up for different drugs. Like mine is supposed to show opioids, benzodiazapines (for anxiety), amphetamines (for ADD), and synthetic testosterone (for low testosterone). If any of those don't "hit" on the one pee test I take, then they can have me re-test in 24 hours, they can send it off to a lab for further testing, etc. They also do pill counts though. My test showed that I hadn't taken my anxiety medication (which I had). They didn't send it off to a lab for further testing or take a b sample, because I had never had that strip not "hit" when I took the test. They assumed it was a failure on the part of the test due to my consistency, and my passed tests in the subsequent months gave them the proof they needed to wipe it off my record as a defective test cup (it happens). I guess this is another area where it could happen. If they took a league approved supplement that "hit" for amphetamine use, and was sent off and revealed to be adderall, then the league can buy that supplement they approved off the shelf, test it, and find out that the manufacturer (keep in mind, this is NOT uncommon) put a prescription ingredient in it (this happens in China all the time with non-regulated suppplements... they will slip in a high concentration of prescription meds they get on the black market to have the desired effect). This is part of what the issue was with "Star Caps" that were the big story for the Williams' guys and Will Smith and somebody else a few years ago. The supplement was supposedly approved, but the ingredients had changed and there was no way they could have known they were ingesting something illegal when the hotline they call said star caps were approved for use. It was outdated info they were given and they felt it wasn't their responsibility to know the specific formulation if they were taking something that was on the "clear" list.

iigakusei · Nov 26, 2012

If this testing happened in a game in September then why is it coming out now? DOes it really take over two months to confirm a positive test?

USChawk · Nov 26, 2012

I hate the internet sometimes.

JSeahawks · Nov 26, 2012

Neither player has had a date set for an appeal, according to La Canfora, and both players continue to deny taking any banned substances. La Canfora reports that Browner has told people he puts no supplements in his system at all, as he is already in the drug program and gets tested regularly.

Sherman told Steve Wyche of the NFL Network that Adderall -- which everyone heard is what got Sherman and Browner in trouble with the league -- is "something I have never done" and said he had not "taken anything."

Making matters even more complicated is the same-day-testing coincidence. La Canfora reports that it is possible one or both parties could submit to a lie-detector test as part of the evidence submitted on their behalf -- and the players are also looking into any irregularities with the testing that could have resulted in both testing positive more or less at the same time.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-o ... l/21140988

Sgt. Largent · Nov 26, 2012

Sarlacc83":37ksm6wv said:
Sgt. Largent":37ksm6wv said:

GeorgeKush":37ksm6wv said:

they will probably appeal and then won't have to serve their suspensions till next season

Click to expand...

What?

Appeal process will be done this week, which means suspensions will be immediately served.

Again, I may be wrong, but I can't recall a NFL drug suspension being lessened or overturned. The owness is on the player for knowing what's going into his body, no excuses.

Click to expand...

Don't worry. You are wrong.

Also, onus. The onus is on you to see the squiggly line telling you the word is wrong.

There's also a word "owness"

http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/owness.html

But thanks for being the forum grammar Nazi. Every forum needs one, I'm just glad you were here in time to point out my mistake..........now I can sleep well tonight knowing you're on watch.

SharkHawk · Nov 26, 2012

iigakusei":vdphgqvz said:
If this testing happened in a game in September then why is it coming out now? DOes it really take over two months to confirm a positive test?

Like I've said elsewhere. If you test positive in the piss cup (which is considered initial screening or preliminary testing), then the sample goes off to a lab for a more in depth test. This is common practice.

SharkHawk · Nov 26, 2012

JSeahawks":1pxll9jq said:
Neither player has had a date set for an appeal, according to La Canfora, and both players continue to deny taking any banned substances. La Canfora reports that Browner has told people he puts no supplements in his system at all, as he is already in the drug program and gets tested regularly.

Sherman told Steve Wyche of the NFL Network that Adderall -- which everyone heard is what got Sherman and Browner in trouble with the league -- is "something I have never done" and said he had not "taken anything."

Making matters even more complicated is the same-day-testing coincidence. La Canfora reports that it is possible one or both parties could submit to a lie-detector test as part of the evidence submitted on their behalf -- and the players are also looking into any irregularities with the testing that could have resulted in both testing positive more or less at the same time.

Click to expand...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-o ... l/21140988

Why is Browner in the system? Did he test positive for something at the combine? Is this why he was cut and went to Canada for a while (a la Ricky Williams)? I had never heard he was in the system, so this is interesting. If he's in the system already, wouldn't he be looking at longer than 4 game suspension? Sherman isn't in the system, and would get 4 games as a first timer, correct? Or does this mean he failed 2 tests over the last 2 seasons and is now in the system and up for a suspension.

Sarlacc83 · Nov 26, 2012

Sgt. Largent":an1pgehy said:
Sarlacc83":an1pgehy said:

Sgt. Largent":an1pgehy said:

What?

Appeal process will be done this week, which means suspensions will be immediately served.

Again, I may be wrong, but I can't recall a NFL drug suspension being lessened or overturned. The owness is on the player for knowing what's going into his body, no excuses.

Click to expand...

Don't worry. You are wrong.

Also, onus. The onus is on you to see the squiggly line telling you the word is wrong.

Click to expand...

There's also a word "owness"

http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/owness.html

But thanks for being the forum grammar Nazi. Every forum needs one, I'm just glad you were here in time to point out my mistake..........now I can sleep well tonight knowing you're on watch.

Actually, there isn't a word owness (from your very own link). And you're welcome. You deserve only the best.

Rocket · Nov 26, 2012

SharkHawk":3479zktf said:
I take adderall....

Fantastic story. Fantastic success story as well.

Sherman and Browner facing suspension

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