Sherman and Browner facing suspension

49fansince70

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ensett":ac8e06d2 said:
49fansince70":ac8e06d2 said:
First off, I'm in the camp that there are a lot of professional athletes that are using PED's, just some happen to get caught. I have no choice but to think that, as I'm a fan of the San Francisco Giants.

Strategically, though, wouldn't it make the most sense for the two players to serve their suspensions ASAP?
1) Playoffs aren't all that likely
2) Team would benefit from better draft position
3) Get the issue put behind as quickly as possible so it doesn't stay in the media spotilght and they can get back to ripping Harbaugh.

How are playoffs not likely? Seahawks hold the 6th seed in their hand right now. Why are you making stuff up?
Draft position is a bunch of mumbo jumbo, it only helps if your staff sucks at scouting. Draft position is irrelevant.

Draft position obviously matters, a quick glance through historical drafts clearly shows that the earlier a player is taken, the better he is likely to be. Sure, there are busts and surprises, it's fuzzy. But you'll never convince me it's better to draft, say, 18'th than 13'th. Additionally, saying draft position doesn't matter kind of detracts from the '49ers benefitted from more years of suckage while the Seahawks were dominating the West' argument.

However, your point about Seattle winding up as the 6'th seed is well taken, looking at the Vikings and the Bucs, Seattle has an easier schedule, even though I think right now the Bucs are probably the better team.
 

manders2600

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Hawkscanner":2gf6l8zq said:
manders2600":2gf6l8zq said:
You really think all these DBs from the same team just happen to be diagnosed with ADHD, are taking properly prescribed dosages of Adderall, under a doctor's supervision, and simply failed to mention this to the NFL?

I have no idea honestly -- I'll admit that it seems highly unlikely. You're right. I'm just throwing that out as a possibility. Until we have all the facts, it's hard for me to really offer a good informed opinion. I simply threw that out there. Now I will say this as far as Adderall is concerned. You would get the same basic effect from it that you would if you pounded several cups of coffee. In fact, here's the real test if you want to know if someone has ADHD or not. What happens to that person if they have a lot of coffee? For the person without it ... coffee will naturally wire them up. For the person WITH ADHD though ... it will calm them down ... and a high enough stimulant level (coffee, Adderall, etc.) will actually put them to sleep. There's your test.

As I said though, until we have some real hard evidence and facts regarding this case ... it's hard to offer anything of any true use.

Yeah, that's not the case with all stimulants in all cases.

Cocaine will go from stimulant to depressant to hallucinogen as dosage increases.

Amphetamines in lower, controlled dosages will have the effect you mentioned on individuals with legitimate ADHD (though this condition is insanely over-diagnosed). However, in higher, concentrated dosages (see: recreational) they will not put someone to sleep, but rather will have the same effect as they would on anyone else.

The bottom line, though, is that the league is suspending them for a failed test, not for a failed test specifically because of Adderall. Adderall is simply what players tell the public they have been taking, which in this case seems extremely unlikely.
 

PatsFanNH

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FlyingGreg":232tx2sf said:
Guilty before trial...?


what trial? they tested positive for an illegal substance and I personally have never seen an appeal for THIS offense work in the NFL.
 

kidhawk

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manders2600":2xcjuag6 said:
The bottom line, though, is that the league is suspending them for a failed test, not for a failed test specifically because of Adderall. Adderall is simply what players tell the public they have been taking, which in this case seems extremely unlikely.


You say that players claim to be taking Adderall, but that is NOT the case here. Sherman has said that he is being banned for taking that particular banned substance, but is denying it and says he will be exonerated. Now, is he speaking the truth? who knows. I'm sure many guilty people make these claims, but IN THIS CASE, the player is not CLAIMING TO HAVE TAKEN ADDERALL
 

Missing_Clink

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yea the appeal is not the "trial". They have already been deemed guilty of the offense. They have already been sentenced in fact.
 

kidhawk

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PatsFanNH":13pml9tr said:
FlyingGreg":13pml9tr said:
Guilty before trial...?


what trial? they tested positive for an illegal substance and I personally have never seen an appeal for THIS offense work in the NFL.

Several players in recent history have had their suspensions overturned because it was a paperwork error and not a substance use issue. So there is some precedence...Is this the case here? I have no idea, but until the appeal is heard, they is still an assumption that there is a possibility of innocence. I'm not holding my breath though
 

kmedic

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I agree with PatsFan- cmon guys, when has a guy getting caught doing Adderal ever had his suspension reversed? And don't you think it's just a little too coincidental that 3 DB's on the same team get caught doing this crap within a couple months? There's obviously a bad apple in the group and I wanna know who it is.
 

manders2600

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kidhawk":naqmoz9u said:
manders2600":naqmoz9u said:
The bottom line, though, is that the league is suspending them for a failed test, not for a failed test specifically because of Adderall. Adderall is simply what players tell the public they have been taking, which in this case seems extremely unlikely.


You say that players claim to be taking Adderall, but that is NOT the case here. Sherman has said that he is being banned for taking that particular banned substance, but is denying it and says he will be exonerated. Now, is he speaking the truth? who knows. I'm sure many guilty people make these claims, but IN THIS CASE, the player is not CLAIMING TO HAVE TAKEN ADDERALL

Is he claiming not to have taken anything at all, or is he claiming that he will be exonerated for some unspecified reason?
 

pastapadre

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kmedic":38belief said:
I agree with PatsFan- cmon guys, when has a guy getting caught doing Adderal ever had his suspension reversed? And don't you think it's just a little too coincidental that 3 DB's on the same team get caught doing this crap within a couple months? There's obviously a bad apple in the group and I wanna know who it is.

At least one earlier this year...
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012 ... ppeal.html
 

kidhawk

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manders2600":a8fj7bv0 said:
kidhawk":a8fj7bv0 said:
manders2600":a8fj7bv0 said:
The bottom line, though, is that the league is suspending them for a failed test, not for a failed test specifically because of Adderall. Adderall is simply what players tell the public they have been taking, which in this case seems extremely unlikely.


You say that players claim to be taking Adderall, but that is NOT the case here. Sherman has said that he is being banned for taking that particular banned substance, but is denying it and says he will be exonerated. Now, is he speaking the truth? who knows. I'm sure many guilty people make these claims, but IN THIS CASE, the player is not CLAIMING TO HAVE TAKEN ADDERALL

Is he claiming not to have taken anything at all, or is he claiming that he will be exonerated for some unspecified reason?

I haven't heard a direct quote, only what I heard on the radio that he is appealing his suspension and they are also saying that it is on the basis of poor testing procedures, so I have to assume he's saying he shouldn't be positive at all. If it were something he was taking via prescription like others in the past, then I don't believe he'd be appealing because of testing procedures.

I just think we should hold off on judgement until the appeal is complete. There have been overturned suspensions before, and Sherman seems to believe he will win his appeal. Haven't heard anything about Browner as of yet, but he's generally quiet about everything.
 

Killa Kam

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manders2600":1km685eh said:
kidhawk":1km685eh said:
manders2600":1km685eh said:
The bottom line, though, is that the league is suspending them for a failed test, not for a failed test specifically because of Adderall. Adderall is simply what players tell the public they have been taking, which in this case seems extremely unlikely.


You say that players claim to be taking Adderall, but that is NOT the case here. Sherman has said that he is being banned for taking that particular banned substance, but is denying it and says he will be exonerated. Now, is he speaking the truth? who knows. I'm sure many guilty people make these claims, but IN THIS CASE, the player is not CLAIMING TO HAVE TAKEN ADDERALL

Is he claiming not to have taken anything at all, or is he claiming that he will be exonerated for some unspecified reason?

"Something I have never done," Sherman said, referring to the usage of Adderall, a drug typically prescribed to patients suffering from attention deficit disorder. Sherman added that he has not "taken anything," that would cause him to be suspended under the NFL rules for performance-enhancing drugs.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... suspension

I hope he and Browner are telling the truth, they're my favorite players on this team.
 

Chukarhawk

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on 710 this AM they were saying Adderal is a masking agent taken to cover steroid use.
 

hawkfan333

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has anybody considered they might be innocent i mean jesus christ everybody is jumping to conclusions
 

freakshow

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From the reading I've done on adderall it says its most prevalent in colleges with high academic standards. So which one of our DB's came from a school with high standards? I wouldn't be surprised if Sherman has been taking them since his Stanford days. Hopefully they're innocent as they've stated but for now, who knows...
 

CrimsonWazzu

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kmedic":337e9tur said:
I agree with PatsFan- cmon guys, when has a guy getting caught doing Adderal ever had his suspension reversed? And don't you think it's just a little too coincidental that 3 DB's on the same team get caught doing this crap within a couple months? There's obviously a bad apple in the group and I wanna know who it is.

Every guy in that locker room knows what Adderall is and what it can do for them, and they all know it's banned by the NFL. All those guys made their own choices.

"I wanna know who it is." I kinda lol'ed at that. So you can take him to task on the boards? There is no "bad apple", some shady character on the practice squad in the locker room whose sole purpose is to score drugs. The guys rolled the dice, a majority of guys in professional sports do at some point in their career. They got caught, they'll pay the consequences.
 

CaptainSkybeard

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Please let at least ONE if them have diagnosed ADHD.

Sherman does seem very confident though. He would seem very stupid if he turns out to be clearly guilty, and he knows that.... So stay tuned...
 

JKent82

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I'm letting it play out. Sherm and Browner seem to think they are innocent. Course who doesn't, but we'll see.
 

manders2600

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Killa Kam":1gba0nn9 said:
manders2600":1gba0nn9 said:
Is he claiming not to have taken anything at all, or is he claiming that he will be exonerated for some unspecified reason?

"Something I have never done," Sherman said, referring to the usage of Adderall, a drug typically prescribed to patients suffering from attention deficit disorder. Sherman added that he has not "taken anything," that would cause him to be suspended under the NFL rules for performance-enhancing drugs.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... suspension

I hope he and Browner are telling the truth, they're my favorite players on this team.

Yeah, that seems way less likely to be over-turned.

I assumed he would not choose to dispute the testing practices agreed to by the NFLPA, or try to simply say, "The test is wrong".
 

SharkHawk

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I take adderall. I've taken it since I had to switch off Ritalin because it elevated my heart rate. I have a serious case of ADD which was ADHD when I was a kid. The difference it has made in my life is profound. I am a smart guy for the most part. I was pulling straight F's in school from 4th grade on (because that was the first year they gave out letter grades). My parents ran me through every psychologist and other doctor they could. No solutions were found.

I was in and out of high school five times before finally being expelled in November of my sophomore year. I finally got a GED at age 18 1/2 due to my brother prodding me to do it. Then I took one college class and it was excruciating. I got a good grade though, as it was a writing class. Then I attempted to take a full load of classes. I failed all of them. I was put on academic probation and tried again. I passed one class and failed the rest. I got a "last chance buddy" from BYU and took only classes that completely interested me, but had nothing to do with my major. I ended up getting straight C's, but it was awful. Luckily I was in a group where I was going overseas and 12 of my credits were tied to that. That was the only thing that helped me to pass, and one art class. So I passed 16 credits. 12 study abroad, 3 art, 1 for golf. That was it. Then I just quit and went to work for a software company. I ended up quitting that job after 3 months. I couldn't handle it.

This is where I realized I needed help. I went and saw a doctor who was younger and more into the latest and greatest treatments and not the "usual stuff". He looked through all of my school records, had me take tests, etc. He then just observed me taking this survey and said that I had the highest ADD score he'd ever seen, and I was 23 at the time. He said most people outgrow it by adulthood, but that is typically if they have ADD as a child. If they have ADHD as a child then it frequently morphs into ADD as an adult. He put me on medication. Within a week I noticed things were different. I saw the world differently. I was dare I say it, happy? I didn't sit in a chair and freak out. I could sleep. I went to a movie and sat through it. I went and got my job back after some begging and quickly soared to the top of the charts for productivity and got promoted. I decided after a year and a half to give school another try.

I signed up for the teaching program at Utah Valley State. I ended up graduating in 3.5 years with a 3.95 GPA and perfect evaluation scores. I kept my job the entire time. I was healthy and happy and working 35 hours a week volunteering ten hours a week in elementary schools, and attending school for 4-6 hours a day. It was like night and day. Then I got my first teaching job and everything fell apart within a month. I had stopped taking my meds and I was disorganized, I couldn't remember even small details, I was exhausted, I was confused, I was depressed, I was completely failing at life. I then got back on my meds and things went haywire. It was at this point that they went through a few other meds, and finally found adderall. It took a year to get on Adderall, but I sort of limped along and did ok. The year I got on Adderall I was me again. My students ended up with the highest test scores in the school. I was being interviewed by the district to find out how my scores jumped so much, and it sort of snowballed from there. My students were excelling, and I was promoted to administration. Adderall saved my life and career I think. It also brought out the best in me. There was a clear difference on days when I didn't take my medicine. I was given almost all students with ADD or ADHD because I was able to relate to them and we got along great. I helped a lot of them to love school and to make it through the year and they came out feeling good about themselves and school.

Why am I going into so much detail? Well.... partially because I have ADD and you can see it come across in my posts. But partially because I hate to see these medications demonized. The FDA is attempting to remove Adderall from the shelves and replace it with Vyvanse, which is a medication that works on the same receptors, but has additional binders and fillers that help to prevent abuse, but also I am extremely allergic to and I can't function on Vyvanse or any other medication. Adderall is the thing that holds my life together and its cousins in the same family of medications gave me a life. They gave me a career, a wife, children, and all things I never could have gotten without treatment.

I say this with a totally open mind. There is a possibility that we have several players with severe enough cases of ADD that it warrants treatment. You never know. There is also a chance that they think it helps them to play better, or to learn their playbooks, or they were kids who suffered from ADHD and now suffer from Adult ADD like I do, and received it from a doctor who performed the appropriate testing, but failed to get the appropriate waiver from the league (look at the amount of waivers for ADD meds in baseball, it's astronomical, but I can say as a former baseball player that a lot of us kids with ADHD were good at baseball... it was an extremely large amount actually). Look at the compulsive behaviors of athletes. Tightening and retightening gloves, shoes, etc. Adjusting and readjusting chin straps. "Ceremonies" before and during plays that border on obsessive compulsive. I feel that having a good case of ADD can help in sports. I never took my medication before games, and I always felt like I played better off of it. But I did take it everyday when I didn't have a game or after it, because then I could focus on the remainder of my life. I think adrenaline took care of me during game time and my focus was good and such. If anything, I felt like Ritalin/Adderall caused me issues during games. I'd get very dehydrated, my blood sugar would drop, I'd cramp like crazy, etc. But in a normal day it was fine and all went well.

My hope is that athletes who are abusing it realize that whether they think they are a role model or not doesn't matter to me. The fact is that if they are using the medication improperly then they are creating more issues within the medical community and with the FDA which then creates a stigma and doctors stop prescribing it for those who genuinely need it. But... if players truly need it, and have documentation, then they need to get the proper clearances and get the appropriate waiver from the league. It is the same with many medications. Did you know that athletes can take synthetic testosterone and many do? They need a waiver and league approval because they may suffer from low testosterone. It runs in families. There are a large percentage of athletes who are exceptional who have conditions that allow them to be on medications that don't give them a competitive advantage (such as amphetamine salts like adderall and synthetic t like androgel, testim, and others). They just help the person to fix a chemical imbalance and restore them to a normal level where they are playing and functioning in life at a level they wouldn't be otherwise. I am one of those people, and I hope like heck that these guys did this on the up and up. The chances of 3 of our 8 or so DB's having ADD are slim I guess, but you never know. One or two could be legit, and another could have tried it because the others were using it.

Another interesting factoid... ask a friend in the Air Force who flies what they carry in their pocket with them. My last discussion with my doctor about adderall and the fear of it being banned was met with a discussion on the fact that most pilots are given adderall by the military to help them focus and make it on long flights, particularly in combat. Soldiers on the ground are frequently given it as well for the same reasons. They use it to pep them up and keep them functioning and to keep their mind from wandering during difficult circumstances, lack of sleep, lack of food, etc. It is a lifesaver for many of our troops. If it was as dangerous as some people say I don't think it would be given out that freely. But I'm biased as I've been given a life by my treatment for ADD. I hope that athletes and others take it seriously that these medications are the difference maker in many children and adult lives and if they are just horsing around then they are damaging the great treatments for a serious disorder and hurting those of us who depend on it for life. But they are also hurting themselves and their teammates by not getting waivers properly and such. If they had, then I don't think there would be an appeal needed, even if they did get the prescription legitimately. They should have learned from Moffit last year. You need to follow protocol and it won't be an issue. If they did, then I apologize for acting like they didn't, but this is something that is very important to me and as many as 5-10 kids in a classroom at any given moment.
 

kmedic

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CrimsonWazzu":1y5l91so said:
kmedic":1y5l91so said:
I agree with PatsFan- cmon guys, when has a guy getting caught doing Adderal ever had his suspension reversed? And don't you think it's just a little too coincidental that 3 DB's on the same team get caught doing this crap within a couple months? There's obviously a bad apple in the group and I wanna know who it is.

Every guy in that locker room knows what Adderall is and what it can do for them, and they all know it's banned by the NFL. All those guys made their own choices.

"I wanna know who it is." I kinda lol'ed at that. So you can take him to task on the boards? There is no "bad apple", some shady character on the practice squad in the locker room whose sole purpose is to score drugs. The guys rolled the dice, a majority of guys in professional sports do at some point in their career. They got caught, they'll pay the consequences.


Wait, so you think this scenario played out? Sherm wants to up his game so after careful introspective thought, convinces himself, hey, let me try taking Adderal and get away with it. I'll ask my primary care doctor or some other shady doctor for a Rx and "roll the dice". Maybe my buddy BB will do the same....

I'm sorry I don't buy that- I think the much more believable scenario was, some dude on the roster, maybe on the active or practice squad, or maybe even an agent, says to Sherm and Browner over dinner or drinks, "yo dude, you guys need to show the 49ers what's up on national TV, I got some good stuff to give you that edge, maybe get you an INT or 2 in front of the whole nation. You might get caught but I got a way for you not to." Of course, it didn't work, but the fact is, my belief is that these guys got influenced by someone. That same someone was probably the same guy who told Winston Guy that this stuff might make him into a starter instead of a bench warmer.

It's like the guy who got Alex Rodriguez into trouble with roids. Alex didn't obtain the PED's himself- it was a crony who infiltrated his social circle.
 
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