PFF: Richard Sherman becoming league's best shutdown corner

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  • Turns out that when they're not jumping up and down waving their arms for attention towards their ratings metrics, some of the guys at Pro Football Focus know a lot about football.

    Love this piece on Sherman. It's not just his tools, but his tape study, spatial awareness, and understanding of coverage and receivers' body language that makes him so good. Makes him sound like a long-term stud for us.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... week-10-2/
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  • I hope that it wasn't just a random stroke of luck we found Sherman, and hopefully we find a solid #2 across from him (not yet sold on Browner completely, and I want two shutdown CB's).
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  • I remember being terrified when we lost Trufant and than Thurmond shortly after. Those injuries turned into one of the best things to happen in the Carroll era
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  • sherman i think is definately the better of the two, and definately in the top 5 in the league if not top 2 or 3... browner is a baller as well, not as good at coverage, but better at jammin recievers off the line and taking them out of their rhythm.. that's how he compensates, still good at coverage, just not as good as sherman.. browner also has deceptive speed as shown when running down AP.. we have two solid corners, i think the term shutdown corners is slowly fading, because of the recievers in the game today, and the game plans. you can shut down the big play guys, but they game plan for that and target the #2 or slots like we've seen in detroit... aside from reivis, who i wouldn't consider a shutdown corner, but i would say he's as close as it gets..they're just not a lot of them any more. shut down corners to me, you're talking Prime time, darryl green type players..

    just my opionion
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  • It was hard to read that article.

    Because I continued to get giddy every couple sentences. Sherman = stud.
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  • Sarlacc83 wrote:It was hard to read that article.

    Because I continued to get giddy every couple sentences. Sherman = stud.

    Indeed
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  • Hmmm....Optimus Prime or Sherman Island...Take your pick. I love it!!!!
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  • hawksfan515 wrote:I hope that it wasn't just a random stroke of luck we found Sherman, and hopefully we find a solid #2 across from him (not yet sold on Browner completely, and I want two shutdown CB's).


    God willing, all of our #2's will be solid...
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  • Sarlacc83 wrote:It was hard to read that article.

    Because I continued to get giddy every couple sentences. Sherman = stud.


    And what's funny is that Sherman's smart enough to know that the more he publicly talks trash to opposing WRs and QBs, the more the media will pay attention to him and perhaps start to notice that he's very possibly the top CB in the league right now. Dude is earning every penny of his next contract with his play and his savvy.
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  • CANHawk wrote:
    hawksfan515 wrote:I hope that it wasn't just a random stroke of luck we found Sherman, and hopefully we find a solid #2 across from him (not yet sold on Browner completely, and I want two shutdown CB's).


    God willing, all of our #2's will be solid...


    lol my bad, I meant just complete shutdown. Like having 2 shutdown CB's across from eachother. I do think Browners alright for now though, as I love his playmaking ability (no offense to Sherman, he's gotta take notes from Browner on how to return an INT. Browner's a boss at it).

    Kinda like Chicago with Tim Jennings and Charles Tillman. Except younger.

    Our setup right now kinda reminds me of Revis and Cromartie. Except Sherman isn't as good as Revis (Maybe in another year), and Browners better than Cromartie.
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  • hawksfan515 wrote:
    lol my bad, I meant just complete shutdown. Like having 2 shutdown CB's across from eachother. I do think Browners alright for now though, as I love his playmaking ability (no offense to Sherman, he's gotta take notes from Browner on how to return an INT. Browner's a boss at it).

    Kinda like Chicago with Tim Jennings and Charles Tillman. Except younger.

    Our setup right now kinda reminds me of Revis and Cromartie. Except Sherman isn't as good as Revis (Maybe in another year), and Browners better than Cromartie.



    Revis is the most overhyped CB since Champ Bailey. I would take Sherman over Revis any day of the week. Browner is a stud, hard to imagine people still doubt him.
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  • HawksFTW wrote:

    Revis is the most overhyped CB since Champ Bailey. I would take Sherman over Revis any day of the week. Browner is a stud, hard to imagine people still doubt him.


    Huh?

    What are you basing the over hype on? Revis has literally been shutting down a teams best WR for years. Even the best WRs in the league rarely put up any numbers on Revis. Sherman is definitely on the rise and he may one day be better but right now, there are still teams that will throw at Sherman, while virtually no-one throws at Revis.

    I agree for the most part about Browner. He's pretty good but he still has at least one really bad mental mistake each game.
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  • amill87 wrote:
    HawksFTW wrote:

    Revis is the most overhyped CB since Champ Bailey. I would take Sherman over Revis any day of the week. Browner is a stud, hard to imagine people still doubt him.


    Huh?

    What are you basing the over hype on? Revis has literally been shutting down a teams best WR for years. Even the best WRs in the league rarely put up any numbers on Revis. Sherman is definitely on the rise and he may one day be better but right now, there are still teams that will throw at Sherman, while virtually no-one throws at Revis.

    I agree for the most part about Browner. He's pretty good but he still has at least one really bad mental mistake each game.


    Yeah I would love to know why you think Revis is overhyped. He seems pretty good.
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  • hawksfan515 wrote:I hope that it wasn't just a random stroke of luck we found Sherman, and hopefully we find a solid #2 across from him (not yet sold on Browner completely, and I want two shutdown CB's).


    Being a bit greedy, don't you think? When's the last time any team in the league had two legitimate shutdown corners? Geez, lol.
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  • I think the credit goes to Pete Caroll in his philosophy of putting young kids out there and see what their potential is and see if they can be coachable instead of the traditional thinking of play only people who have experience. It is a risk/reward situation but if you don't play them, you never know. I am sure for every year of Pete and John, we will see more rookies drafted playing than not. That's his philosophy of building depth, breadth and being in cap.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    hawksfan515 wrote:I hope that it wasn't just a random stroke of luck we found Sherman, and hopefully we find a solid #2 across from him (not yet sold on Browner completely, and I want two shutdown CB's).


    Being a bit greedy, don't you think? When's the last time any team in the league had two legitimate shutdown corners? Geez, lol.


    Bears.... :3: Oh god I want a defense like that.... arguably best ever.

    There's a point where a defense will get so good, that above average players become the weaknesses. Browner is good, but can you imagine two Shermans? wooooooo.......
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  • He is going to be a very very rich man in a year or two.
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  • Hawkstorian wrote:He is going to be a very very rich man in a year or two.


    I hope it's with us. I really do. But then again, if anyone doesn't, they likely should have their heads examined.
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  • Sarlacc83 wrote:
    Hawkstorian wrote:He is going to be a very very rich man in a year or two.


    I hope it's with us. I really do. But then again, if anyone doesn't, they likely should have their heads examined.


    You guys are forgetting, he is a 6'3 CB in a scheme tailored to tall CB's. The stereotype of tall CB's not having success might still be there, and while we may have to break the bank, we may not have to really break the bank. I can't imagine his value being that high, as people would have speed concerns, and he wouldn't fit every scheme.
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  • hawksfan515 wrote:
    amill87 wrote:
    HawksFTW wrote:

    Revis is the most overhyped CB since Champ Bailey. I would take Sherman over Revis any day of the week. Browner is a stud, hard to imagine people still doubt him.


    Huh?

    What are you basing the over hype on? Revis has literally been shutting down a teams best WR for years. Even the best WRs in the league rarely put up any numbers on Revis. Sherman is definitely on the rise and he may one day be better but right now, there are still teams that will throw at Sherman, while virtually no-one throws at Revis.

    I agree for the most part about Browner. He's pretty good but he still has at least one really bad mental mistake each game.


    Yeah I would love to know why you think Revis is overhyped. He seems pretty good.


    I never said Revis isn't good, he is definitely good. He also has one of the best years ever at CB, in 2009. Outside of that year, he has just been good to very good, definitely not the best CB in the league. It gets said and repeated so often, that people just accept it as truth. All CBs get beat at some point, there is no such thing as a shutdown CB in this league anymore. Same things got repeated about Champ Bailey after his phenomenal year in 2006. Back when Revis was in discussions for a new contract, there were reports that he wanted $115+ Mil for 10 years, and the Jets were considering paying it. These guys get talked up so much, it is ridiculous. All the while you have CBs like Sherman, Woodson, Haden, etc, etc, that actually outplay them on a pass for pass basis.

    And that goes back to my point about Browner, yes he will get beat once in a while, yes he will have his penalties, but he gets thrown at a ton and holds his own for the better part of it. All CBs will have off plays at some point, I just know we haven't seen a set of CBs this good on our team in a long long time.
    Last edited by HawksFTW on Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • god I miss kelly jennings
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  • This quote gives me serious wood.

    Pro Football Focus wrote:Revis Island may be about to become an archipelago, flanked by Sherman Island in a sea from which there is no escape for receivers.
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  • You know what I love most about this?

    We saw it coming last year...and it ACTUALLY HAPPENED. It's about time that players started delivering on their potential, rather than unexpectedly flatlining or turning out to be a flash-in-the-pan.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:You know what I love most about this?

    We saw it coming last year...and it ACTUALLY HAPPENED. It's about time that players started delivering on their potential, rather than unexpectedly flatlining or turning out to be a flash-in-the-pan.

    Yup. I remember last year, I said the player most deserving to go to the Pro Bowl last year didn't. And that was Sherman. Maybe it's even better he got snubbed, because he's playing angry and hungry still.
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  • hawksfan515 wrote:I hope that it wasn't just a random stroke of luck we found Sherman, and hopefully we find a solid #2 across from him (not yet sold on Browner completely, and I want two shutdown CB's).


    Dude, Browner has been very solid again this year, he just is getting less attention because he doesn't run his mouth.
    In fact, just thinking back to games, it seems like maybe he has given up less big plays then Sherm has even, and that TD saving rundown on AP was incredible!
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  • Browner is also mantastic. How sweet would it be if our whole secondary went to the probowl?
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  • edogg23 wrote:
    hawksfan515 wrote:I hope that it wasn't just a random stroke of luck we found Sherman, and hopefully we find a solid #2 across from him (not yet sold on Browner completely, and I want two shutdown CB's).


    Dude, Browner has been very solid again this year, he just is getting less attention because he doesn't run his mouth.
    In fact, just thinking back to games, it seems like maybe he has given up less big plays then Sherm has even, and that TD saving rundown on AP was incredible!


    Who gave up the big play to Jeremy Kerley in the Jets game? I'm pretty sure it was Browner's side of the field.

    Trust everyone here, Sherman is better than Browner. Browner is good in his own right, but what I was thinking was how it would be like to essentially have TWO Sherman's. Kinda like what the Bears have, and their defense is setting records and such. I want that! Don't get me wrong, Browner is good, but I want memorable, so 20 years from now people go like "man, If only we could make a defense like the Seahawks defense from 2012", something like that.
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  • CANHawk wrote:
    hawksfan515 wrote:I hope that it wasn't just a random stroke of luck we found Sherman, and hopefully we find a solid #2 across from him (not yet sold on Browner completely, and I want two shutdown CB's).


    God willing, all of our #2's will be solid...


    I see what you did there...stay away from the poutine and all will remain solid.


    RolandDeschain wrote:This quote gives me serious wood.

    Pro Football Focus wrote:Revis Island may be about to become an archipelago, flanked by Sherman Island in a sea from which there is no escape for receivers.


    No escape? Just head up the Jennings Straight.
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  • hawksfan515 wrote:
    edogg23 wrote:
    hawksfan515 wrote:I hope that it wasn't just a random stroke of luck we found Sherman, and hopefully we find a solid #2 across from him (not yet sold on Browner completely, and I want two shutdown CB's).


    Dude, Browner has been very solid again this year, he just is getting less attention because he doesn't run his mouth.
    In fact, just thinking back to games, it seems like maybe he has given up less big plays then Sherm has even, and that TD saving rundown on AP was incredible!


    Who gave up the big play to Jeremy Kerley in the Jets game? I'm pretty sure it was Browner's side of the field.

    Trust everyone here, Sherman is better than Browner. Browner is good in his own right, but what I was thinking was how it would be like to essentially have TWO Sherman's. Kinda like what the Bears have, and their defense is setting records and such. I want that! Don't get me wrong, Browner is good, but I want memorable, so 20 years from now people go like "man, If only we could make a defense like the Seahawks defense from 2012", something like that.



    Browner always gets the criticism over "mental mistakes" but never gets the credit when he is making crucial turnovers in almost every game.On top of that Browner brings a Ray Lewis like intimidation on the field,where do you think the D's nasty attitude comes from?Tired of all the little subliminal disses on Browner, without him we would not be as mentally and physically tough.
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  • Sherman > Revis

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  • Sherman and Browner are both great football players. I don't see the need to disparage one in order to lift up the other. IMO Sherman is the better player but that is not a knock on Browner. Sherman has a chance, without hyperbole, to be a hall of fame player. He is rangy, physical, quick, and has great ball skills. I think he can be a modern day Mel Blount. Browner, however, has played very well this year and hopefully they'll continue to shut down opponent's passing games together for a long, long time.
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  • I still find it amazing that people still put Browner down. Seriously, what has he done wrong this year ? Every CB gives up TD's, and if he gets beat over the top, how do you know it was him, and not on the Safety ? Chancellor has had an off year; good in run support, but seeming to be a step later to the ball in coverage than he was last year. I've watched a couple replays of Browner getting beat over the top. One he was in zone and that wasn't his responsibility, and the second, it looked like he was expecting Safety help over the top. Now, only someone on the team could tell you whether it was his mistake to expect Safety help, or the Safety's in not being there.

    Browner has had a couple of game where he disappeared. Want to know why ? He totally ERASED his guy that game. The QB didn't even throw at him. There was also a game where he got a pick, and it wasn't on his guy, he came off his coverage to undercut someone else's responsibility. Last year was like a rookie year for him. I said at the beginning of the year that I felt he could progress and get better. From what I've read on .com and from the Hawks fans here that went to TC, he practices like a demon and is the most physcial secondary player we have. Seriously, I could name maybe two CBs I'd rather have over him, and they might not even fit well in our defense.

    As for SHerman, he's going to be really good, and I think a lot of it comes from him being a WR at a high level before he was a CB. The guy knows what is coming, before it happens. Amazing.
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  • TheHawkDoc wrote:Sherman and Browner are both great football players. I don't see the need to disparage one in order to lift up the other. IMO Sherman is the better player but that is not a knock on Browner. Sherman has a chance, without hyperbole, to be a hall of fame player. He is rangy, physical, quick, and has great ball skills. I think he can be a modern day Mel Blount. Browner, however, has played very well this year and hopefully they'll continue to shut down opponent's passing games together for a long, long time.


    Well said. Reminds me of a couple old school press corners the Raiders had. The same two cornerbacks coach Carroll mentioned as inspiration to take a shot and go after Browner and Richard as press corners. Their names were Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes. Lester was the more vilolent bump and run one taking most of the heat. Both were shut down corners and pro bowl players. Mike Haynes is in the Hall of Fame.

    If Browner and Sherman can approach their success as a CB pairing, we are in for quite a spectacle over the next few years. :th2thumbs:
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  • Hawks46 wrote:I still find it amazing that people still put Browner down. Seriously, what has he done wrong this year ? Every CB gives up TD's, and if he gets beat over the top, how do you know it was him, and not on the Safety ? Chancellor has had an off year; good in run support, but seeming to be a step later to the ball in coverage than he was last year. I've watched a couple replays of Browner getting beat over the top. One he was in zone and that wasn't his responsibility, and the second, it looked like he was expecting Safety help over the top. Now, only someone on the team could tell you whether it was his mistake to expect Safety help, or the Safety's in not being there.

    Browner has had a couple of game where he disappeared. Want to know why ? He totally ERASED his guy that game. The QB didn't even throw at him. There was also a game where he got a pick, and it wasn't on his guy, he came off his coverage to undercut someone else's responsibility. Last year was like a rookie year for him. I said at the beginning of the year that I felt he could progress and get better. From what I've read on .com and from the Hawks fans here that went to TC, he practices like a demon and is the most physcial secondary player we have. Seriously, I could name maybe two CBs I'd rather have over him, and they might not even fit well in our defense.

    As for SHerman, he's going to be really good, and I think a lot of it comes from him being a WR at a high level before he was a CB. The guy knows what is coming, before it happens. Amazing.

    Agree with everything you said man. Browner's nothing short of a Beast this season. He's the defense's Beast Mode IMO. You may get him once or twice, but he'll get the better of you by the end of the game.
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  • Im just happy as a clam with my football signed by Mr Sherman..sits next to me each and every game
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  • To the people who say the Bears have two "shutdown corners", no, no they don't. Jennings is a gambler, plain and simple. Much like players such as Antonio Cromartie or DeAngelo Hall he'll come up with big plays, but he'll also get burned. He can be exploited, and he gets a ton of safety help in the scheme that he plays in.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:To the people who say the Bears have two "shutdown corners", no, no they don't. Jennings is a gambler, plain and simple. Much like players such as Antonio Cromartie or DeAngelo Hall he'll come up with big plays, but he'll also get burned. He can be exploited, and he gets a ton of safety help in the scheme that he plays in.


    Sounds like Nate Clements. Can probably take advantage of him over the top with some double moves. What are their safties like? Maybe Sidney Rice has another big day passing...
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  • Right now I would take Sherm over any other CB the league. He is playing at an unbelievable level right now.
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