Russell Wilson- the silently elite QB

Tical21 · Nov 12, 2012

kearly":3rs4qy59 said:
Tical21":3rs4qy59 said:

I'm not a Wilson hater by any stretch, but for 30 minutes, he looked just about as bad as a QB can look.

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I was with you until this part. Wilson played smart football. He was unproductive at his worst, but never terrible. He finished with zero interceptions and never came close to having one. And it's not like elite QBs always play 4 quarters either. It's pretty typical for a great QB to have an ebb and flow, to build the bulk of his stats on a few key drives.

Good plus bad, Wilson finished with a passer rating north of 130. Good plus bad, the team was perfect in the red zone. Good plus bad, the Seahawks were a solid 6/14 on 3rd+4th down (43%). Good plus bad, the Seahawks pretty much dominated the game, finishing with 363 yards of offense and winning time of possesion by 12 minutes and change.

Matt Stafford put his team on his back to beat us- giving maybe the best QB performance against us all season, and he still had about 2 full quarters of seeming ineptitude. It's not always about playing 4 full quarters every game. If a QB regularly did that his offense would be scoring 45 points a game. Very few QBs in history have lived up to that standard. If you define elite as 2011 Rodgers/Brees or 2007/2010 Brady, then yeah, Wilson is nowhere close to elite. I'm not saying he's playing at an all time great level, looking unstoppable in every quarter of every game. I do think he's quietly elite in terms of overall efficiency compared to his 2012 peers.

You're probably right. I was probably a little strong and will back off a little. He didn't throw four picks in a half or anything like that. He did give a gift TD at a really bad time.

I'm not saying I don't fully expect him to be lost at times over the next few years. I don't want it to come across that I'm disappointed in Wilson in any way. I think he has been amazing. I'm on the wagon, no question. But when you give it the only test that matters, the eyeball test, there is a huge difference between watching Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady command an offense and watching Russell Wilson.

Hasselbeck · Nov 12, 2012

T-Sizzle":15mq7qq4 said:
He is upset that he was released 2 years ago and now benched in Tennessee for locker.

:lol:

I will say it's quite amazing Wilson has played as well as he has with you hanging from his groin though. Props.

-The Glove- · Nov 12, 2012

Hasselbeck":32xnb2al said:
T-Sizzle":32xnb2al said:

He is upset that he was released 2 years ago and now benched in Tennessee for locker.

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You're seriously one of the lamest posters on here man. :lol:

I will say it's quite amazing Wilson has played as well as he has with you hanging from his groin though. Props.

I don't agree with you much, but this, I completely agree with.

Hasselbeck · Nov 12, 2012

Kolsteseahawks":3w3ftd06 said:
I believe Wilson is the franchise QB, but I think u guys are taking this a little too far. Wilson's QBR this year which is a lot more accurate than QB rating is a 56, which is slightly above average, You guys are calling him elite. He's a good starting QB now, he might be elite in the future.

(BUT NO! THAT'S INCREDIBLY INSULTING BECAUSE BECAUSE.. AHHHHH!)

Fact is. He's 23 with a very high ceiling.. and yes, one day maybe he is elite. One day maybe he goes down as the best QB in Seahawks history, which right now is a pretty small list to climb, but good grief.. we're 32nd overall in passing, even the Chiefs and Jaguars have done more in that department, you can cite whatever stat you want to make Wilson an elite QB but right now he's not. Right now.... he's Alex Smith with greater potential.

And that's not insulting, which I'm sure the Wilson spinsters like T-Dawg or T-Shizzle or whatever moniker he wants to use will decree.. because Smith has actually turned himself into a very effective QB.. but we need to stop trying to turn Wilson into something he's not at this time. He's not elite. He's not ROY caliber. He's just GOOD. And that's OKAY.. clearly going off of the fact we're 6-4 and firmly in the playoff race.

But holy cow, these threads and replies saying he's HOF bound are hilariously over the top.

edogg23 · Nov 12, 2012

I would be currious to know exactly how many times RW actually dropped back to pass agains the Jets last game. I think sometimes his pass attempts are deceivingly low because he does a lot of 1-2 yard gains on pass plays that he can't find anyone, so he tucks and avoids a sack. This helps his qb rating because it doesn't count as an incomplete. I would be willing to guess that although he only attempted 19 passes, he was probably actually dropped back to pass closer to 28 times.

I would not call Russell Wilson an elite qb yet, (actually I don't believe you can be elite in half of a rookie season), but he is also having a much better season than most rookies do so he definately has potential. He has been playing pretty amazing at home lately!

BAllenHawk · Nov 12, 2012

Ruminator":31b24rv8 said:
My two cents is: In order for this team to become legitimately dangerous in the playoffs, the FO needs to be cognizant of the fact a bolstered OL is a much greater need than an improved WR corp.

I don't think I can agree with a person more. Breno is a back up RT i'm sorry for the Breno supporters. Have not seen enough out of Moffitt to say he needs to be replaced, but if you have a shot at a Chance Warmack you take him. Seattle still needs some weapons, but this O line is not complete.

themunn · Nov 12, 2012

Kolsteseahawks":14ccb87q said:
I believe Wilson is the franchise QB, but I think u guys are taking this a little too far. Wilson's QBR this year which is a lot more accurate than QB rating is a 56, which is slightly above average, You guys are calling him elite. He's a good starting QB now, he might be elite in the future.

QBR is a bullshit rating though and there's a reason it's not standard.

Jake Locker is ranked 7th above Drew Brees, Josh Freeman, Alex Smith, Eli Manning and RGIII.

Andrew Luck is ranked above Aaron Rodgers.

Tony Romo is ranked above Russell Wilson, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton and Josh Freeman - the same Tony Romo who has thrown 9 interceptions in 2 games this season, 13 in total to 12 TD passes despite having one of the best WR tandem's in the league.

TJH · Nov 12, 2012

Elite is a very overused term now days.

The Radish · Nov 12, 2012

Trenchbroom":2eteq0na said:
I have a friend who is not convinced, largely because his total passing yards are so low. Try to tell him that because of the phenomenal run game and defense he doesn't HAVE to! Plus, oh yeah...this is his rookie season.

At this point I believe his floor is Hasselbeck. FLOOR. And I think he'll do much more than 'ol Hass in yards when his career is done.

See another stat guy! makes his decisions from the stats. Doesn't care how successful any player is if his "stats" don't make him happy. I swear this type of fan drives me crazy, care nothing about wins and losses, only cares about stats.

:roll:

volsunghawk · Nov 12, 2012

Tical21":3i59o5cm said:
I'm not saying I don't fully expect him to be lost at times over the next few years. I don't want it to come across that I'm disappointed in Wilson in any way. I think he has been amazing. I'm on the wagon, no question. But when you give it the only test that matters, the eyeball test, there is a huge difference between watching Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady command an offense and watching Russell Wilson.

I'd agree with this, and I think calling Wilson elite right now is hyperbolic.

However, it should also be acknowledged that all the guys you listed have a ton of NFL experience, and Wilson's rookie season easily rivals each of their initial seasons starting for quality of play.

I don't think Wilson is elite right now, no. But I do think that he's showing us a skillset, an ability to fix mistakes, and a combination of work ethic and leadership right now that has him on a fast track to elite status. What he's done as a rookie QB is outstanding - and some of his games thus far (especially home games) look like what you would see from a top 10 veteran.

seahawks08 · Nov 12, 2012

Russel Wilson has impressed me this being his rookie year. The coaches have done a fine job in putting him in situations to win games and he is making good use of it. I think he will grow after every game and learn from his mistakes. His ball placement, ball distribution are amazing. He has shown steady improvement in being in the pocket but needs to learn how to read corner blitzes better. He will over time, but when you are scouting the field to throw, you will also need to recognize people running at you basically untouched. When you also escape from the pocket to avoid a rush, you need to run away from the blitz. I am sure he will be an elite as soon as he is given the chance to make changes in the line of scrimmage and keep the opposing defense guessing. I think the game against 49ers and Chicago bears will be a good measuring stick to figure out how far he has come this season. An elite QB in my mind is one who creates situations to win, a time when the coaches don't have to put different situations for the team to win, but for the QB to show and be comfortable with all the situations to win the game based on his skills.

kearly · Nov 12, 2012

QBR is a tracking "stat" that is very subjective in nature- very similar to the kind of stats PFF puts out. I like PFF- but that's because their stats usually pass the eyeball test. QBR has had a rough debut. Their rankings fail the eyeball test at an alarming rate. QBR is decently accurate on WIlson, but very inaccurate on other QBs.

In fairness to Wilson, his 3 worst games really tanked his stats since he has a low rep count. His season ANYA score is right around the league average. Consider though that five times this year Wilson posted an ANYA over 8, which is an elite performance. And in Wilson's last five games, his ANYA score has been one of the best in the league- and that's even counting the dropfest in SF. If not for that six drop game, Wilson would likely be the NFL's most efficient QB the last five weeks, which is saying a lot.

Wilson has become an elite QB in recent weeks. His seasonal stats might not reflect that because of a few ugly/unlucky games early, but as of late he's been on a real tear, and it doesn't feel like a fluke either.

kf3339 · Nov 12, 2012

SacHawk2.0":2gey0xkh said:
kf3339":2gey0xkh said:

But to be really Elite he needs to be able to put the team on his back when every thing is breaking down and will the team to victory. That means the defense, running game and special teams not working.

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Dude, RW has two 4th quarter comeback victories already in his career, and it would have been three if the Defense didn't lay an egg at the end of the Detroit game.

If that's not putting the team on your back I don't know what it.

It's comments like yours that have made me cut back dramatically on making posts in this forum. There is nothing in my comments that should make you feel that mentioning a few quarters justifies labeling any QB as "Elite".

Perhaps you should look up the work "elite" and place the term in the context of other QB's now or in history that have earned the term based on a stronger history than 2 quarters of play. That would be a good place to start.

As I stated, Wilson is doing very well for his first year, and do hope he continues to improve this year and going forward in his career.

MontanaHawk05 · Nov 12, 2012

Hasselbeck":1o97dfvi said:
we're 32nd overall in passing, even the Chiefs and Jaguars have done more in that department, you can cite whatever stat you want to make Wilson an elite QB but right now he's not.

The "hanging from his groin" line was awesome, but as long as you continue to equate total yardage with passing excellence, we're going to disagree.

pehawk · Nov 12, 2012

Brady, Rogers, Manning have NEVER had pick 6's OR fumbles returned for TD's.

Its amazing, that anything negative the RW endures, all VERY typical of even elite veteran situations, keep the Wilson doubt alive. RW has to perfect, every play, to even win over this fanbase.

The best is Hasselbeck, who's namesake wouldn't have ever started past game 3, using his same evaluation of Wilson.

Its all fascinating.

-The Glove- · Nov 12, 2012

Elite status is earned based on multiple seasons IMO. I will say that RW has all the makings of an elite QB though-leadership ability, intelligence, dedication, maturity, poise, an improving pocket presence, ability to keep plays alive, and he lives football.

Consistency over several seasons will solidify his spot. And I don't doubt he'll get there.

jlwaters1 · Nov 12, 2012

I don't know how anyone can say he's NOT elite at Home. 11 TD's, 0 picks and 5 wins. What more can anyone want. The idea that a QB MUST pass for 250-300 yards or he's somhow inferrior is laughable. Don't you think that if Luck had an elite Defense and a pulverizing running attack that he would use it more often? Of course, the fact that for 2 straight weeks the offense have killed the last 5 and 7 minutes of the game respectively on offense is dominant and is unbelieable. If you can effectively close out the game by pounding the ball, why on earth would you pass more than a handful of times in the 4th quarter.

if you look at a number of games over the weekend you'll see that the winning QB in alot had less passing yards than the losing team. Look at Dalton 4 TD's 190 yards, while Eli had 225ish in the Bengals Blowout. The Bucs Freeman had 210 yards and Rivers had 300+. Locker and the Titans beat down the Dolphins and only have 125 yards 2 TD's, Tannehill 225ish yards and 0 TD's. So why are people so concerned with passing yards I ask myself.

sam1313 · Nov 13, 2012

Ruminator":3te3aqqi said:
My two cents is: In order for this team to become legitimately dangerous in the playoffs, the FO needs to be cognizant of the fact a bolstered OL is a much greater need than an improved WR corp.

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Better OL = HOF capability for RW too.

Sac · Nov 13, 2012

kf3339":3hs3s4ly said:
SacHawk2.0":3hs3s4ly said:

kf3339":3hs3s4ly said:

But to be really Elite he needs to be able to put the team on his back when every thing is breaking down and will the team to victory. That means the defense, running game and special teams not working.

Click to expand...

Dude, RW has two 4th quarter comeback victories already in his career, and it would have been three if the Defense didn't lay an egg at the end of the Detroit game.

If that's not putting the team on your back I don't know what it.

Click to expand...

It's comments like yours that have made me cut back dramatically on making posts in this forum. There is nothing in my comments that should make you feel that mentioning a few quarters justifies labeling any QB as "Elite".

Perhaps you should look up the work "elite" and place the term in the context of other QB's now or in history that have earned the term based on a stronger history than 2 quarters of play. That would be a good place to start.

As I stated, Wilson is doing very well for his first year, and do hope he continues to improve this year and going forward in his career.

Comments like mine? What did I say that was so offensive? All I pointed out was that there were times that RW did in fact put this team on his back.

v1rotv2 · Nov 13, 2012

The thing is about RW and the his level of play is that no matter how well he plays it means very little until he proves he can keep doing it time and time again. That being the case it's far too soon to anoint him any title other than a rookie playing very well at this stage of his career.

But I believe he will get there.

Russell Wilson- the silently elite QB

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