Exciting times ... BUT (Fiscal Cliff?)

HansGruber":15va9clx said:

drdiags":15va9clx said:

I thought the new CBA removed the option for 1st contract players to re-negotiate their contract? I also thought there were some ways to reward those lower round players that out-performed their contracts but it didn't kick in until after their 2nd year? I guess we will find out with Sherman and maybe Chancellor (he signed under the old CBA) soon?

Click to expand...

Yeah I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet but all the rookies (including Browner) are forbidden by the new CBA to renegotiate their contracts or sign any extension for the first 3 years of their deal. I believe that increases to 4 years for first round picks (Irvin). We can forget about signing Sherman or Wilson to long term extensions for a couple more years. That isn't possible.

Click to expand...

Thanks Guys ....... I didn't want to be the one to inject those realities into this discussion. Much appreciated!

The bench is over there

This thread is a perfect example as to why you don't "play for the future," you have to play for now because you don't know what the team will look like in the future.

Obviously Carroll and Schneider have put together a fantastic young team (I think the 2nd or 3rd youngest in the league?). But the downside is all the great young players are going to all want to get paid in the future.

PS. Don't forget Wilson on your list of players. Can't tell me his agent isn't going to want to restructure his contract in 2014, or maybe even 2013 if all goes well and we make the playoffs.

Earl Thomas
Richard Sherman
Kam Chancellor
KJ Wright
Brandon Browner
Golden Tate
Jason Jones
Doug Baldwin
Alan Branch

Click to expand...

ET- give him market value for a top 3 FS in the league. No problem.
Sherman- Give him market value for top 5 CB in the league. No problem.
Wright- We will resign at a thrifty price of 4-5 M for 5 years.
Browner- We'll have to see what happens with him. He is actually quite a bit older already, and we may be able to find someone who can fill that spot should Browner's demands be high. I'm not guessing more than 3.5M per for 2 years.
Tate- He's played well, but his value is still relatively low.
Jones- Ultimately I think we probably only resigned one of him or Branch, and Scruggs looks to be a cheaper, yet serviceable player.
Baldwin- Market value for him will be low. A WR specialist who doesn't play every down.
Branch- I think we will resign him for about what he makes now.

It's a good issue to be talking about but Schneider is about as thrifty as a...well I won't finish that as I don't want to offend anyone.

CANHawk":16tdbd7x said:

^Amen. Tate is super important to the offense. I'm a huge fan of what he brings. I wouldn't even think about parting ways with him at this point (unless he demands a totally stupid contract extension that is.)

Click to expand...

What you have to ask is...could a cheaper rookie do his job? That's it...it's a bidness, and I waod say that any number of 4-7 draft picks can do what he does...and get separation as well on a consistent basis.

Had a great year..but replaceable

In fact I could argue that a faster taller version I him could do more!
And cheaper mid round pick with a chip on his shoulder fighting for veteran contract

Sgt. Largent":1gdjet87 said:

PS. Don't forget Wilson on your list of players. Can't tell me his agent isn't going to want to restructure his contract in 2014, or maybe even 2013 if all goes well and we make the playoffs.

Click to expand...

As has been mentioned several times in this thread, Wilson can't renegotiate his contract due to the CBA.

Sarlacc83":2ssi0wyj said:

Sgt. Largent":2ssi0wyj said:

PS. Don't forget Wilson on your list of players. Can't tell me his agent isn't going to want to restructure his contract in 2014, or maybe even 2013 if all goes well and we make the playoffs.

Click to expand...

As has been mentioned several times in this thread, Wilson can't renegotiate his contract due to the CBA.

Click to expand...

The new CBA states that rookies picked between the 2nd and 7th rounds can either re-negotiate or ask for free agency after their four years are up. Which one do you think Wilson and his agent will do? Personally I think he will ask to have his contract re-negotiated to be in line with being an NFL starter. Thus my point is still valid.

Sgt. Largent":3toaxa9t said:

Sarlacc83":3toaxa9t said:

Sgt. Largent":3toaxa9t said:

PS. Don't forget Wilson on your list of players. Can't tell me his agent isn't going to want to restructure his contract in 2014, or maybe even 2013 if all goes well and we make the playoffs.

Click to expand...

As has been mentioned several times in this thread, Wilson can't renegotiate his contract due to the CBA.

Click to expand...

The new CBA states that rookies picked between the 2nd and 7th rounds can either re-negotiate or ask for free agency after their four years are up. Which one do you think Wilson and his agent will do? Personally I think he will ask to have his contract re-negotiated to be in line with being an NFL starter. Thus my point is still valid.

Click to expand...

Apparently you have poor addition skills, then. 4 years from 2012 is 2016. So I'm not sure how your point is still valid.

zayden185":1v7ep87m said:

CANHawk":1v7ep87m said:

^Amen. Tate is super important to the offense. I'm a huge fan of what he brings. I wouldn't even think about parting ways with him at this point (unless he demands a totally stupid contract extension that is.)

Click to expand...

What you have to ask is...could a cheaper rookie do his job? That's it...it's a bidness, and I waod say that any number of 4-7 draft picks can do what he does...and get separation as well on a consistent basis.

Had a great year..but replaceable

In fact I could argue that a faster taller version I him could do more!
And cheaper mid round pick with a chip on his shoulder fighting for veteran contract

Click to expand...

Well that may be true but... look at the year Tate was drafted. 22 wide recievers were drafted after Tate in 2010 and maybe only 2 or 3 have contributed more than Golden Tate has; Mike Williams TB 3rd round, Eric Decker DEN 3rd and Antonio Brown PIT 6th. That means every one of those 4-7 round picks that you claim "can do what he does" and be cut out to be our #2 WR all flopped save for one (Antonio Brown - and the one that did hit was a total fluke pick that played Div 1 for Central Michigan that nobody saw coming).

Might we be able to draft a WR who can do what Tate does? More than likely. If we did draft a replacement #2 WR and let Tate walk, would that guy come from the 4-7th round? Maaaaaaaybe (but probably not). And if we did draft "some guy" from the 4-7th round to replace Tate, would he be as productive as Tate is now right away? Very likely no.

A bird in the hand, yadda yadda yadda...

Tate has admittedly taken a long time to prove he was worth that 2nd round pick (that was almost a 3rd round pick), but he's now proven that at the very least his floor is that of a #2 WR in this league. The guy is young (24) and still very much improving. I still can see the potential of Steve Smith or Percey Harvin level production out of this guy. To just let him go because "some guy" might be able to do kinda what he does but only cheaper would be a mistake.

I seriously don't get the Tate hate around here sometimes. Kid is a baller and we're lucky to have him.

This is why we need to do big things this year.....sssshhh don't dare speak its name

Regarding Browner..we have Walter Thurmond III, who beat out Sherm. And I can't wait for his return tbh.

Big Play Browner aint going anywhere . well atleast I hope not.

I remember reports saying he was holding out last year , but He talk to Pete/JS and will be expecting a raise come this offseason.

I wouldn't be mad or surprised if he signed a 4 year/22-28 mill contract this upcoming offseason.

Let's not forget one minor detail. Knock on wood, but I'm betting at least one of those players on the list (besides Jones) gets an injury during their final contract year, which will bring their value down. From the way they play, it's bound to happen.

Regarding Tate, if he continues to play like he's playing now, he's worth a solid #2 WR contract.

Sarlacc83":164lqbux said:

Apparently you have poor addition skills, then. 4 years from 2012 is 2016. So I'm not sure how your point is still valid.

Click to expand...

Here's the CBA sentence we're talking about;

"For those players taken in the second through seventh rounds, they can sign only four-year contracts. If they become great players, the clubs can renegotiate with them or they can file for free agency after four years. Plus, there are now better guarantees against career-ending injuries in this agreement."

Click to expand...

So does "if they can become great players the clubs can renegotiate with them" sentence mean the renegotiation can happen PRIOR to the four years being up? Cause that's how I read it, or else why would it be renegotiating?

Sgt. Largent":2nqet26y said:

Sarlacc83":2nqet26y said:

Apparently you have poor addition skills, then. 4 years from 2012 is 2016. So I'm not sure how your point is still valid.

Click to expand...

Here's the CBA sentence we're talking about;

"For those players taken in the second through seventh rounds, they can sign only four-year contracts. If they become great players, the clubs can renegotiate with them or they can file for free agency after four years. Plus, there are now better guarantees against career-ending injuries in this agreement."

Click to expand...

So does "if they can become great players the clubs can renegotiate with them" sentence mean the renegotiation can happen PRIOR to the four years being up? Cause that's how I read it, or else why would it be renegotiating?

Click to expand...

I'm not seeing anything that sounds like what a CBA Lawyer would write.

I will, however, provide you a link to a layman's explanation for your consideration.

All rookie contracts have a pre-determined length that the team and player can not deviate from: all draft picks sign 4-year contracts. All undrafted free agents sign 3-year contracts. In addition there is a 5th-year option on 1st round pick contracts that the club can choose to pick up. For picks 1-10, the cost of this option will be equal to the average of the top 10 salaries at the player's position in the prior year. For other 1st round picks, the cost is the average of the 3rd to 25th top salaries at the player's position.
Per article 7 section 3k, a drafted rookie's contract may not be altered, renegotiated or extended until the final regular season game of his 3rd NFL season. An undrafted rookie's contract may similarly not be touched until the final regular season game of his 2nd NFL season. Since we renegotiated Aaron Curry before the end of his 3rd season, I think contracts from the previous CBA period remain under the old rules, which stipulated no renegotiation until the end of the 2nd year.

Click to expand...

Link to Source >>>> http://www.fieldgulls.com/2011/9/5/2395 ... her-course

This topic is exactly why I said during the preseason that Seattle's Superbowl window could potentially be the widest in 2012 and 2013, before a deluge of pro-bowl players hit their first free agency.

Here's the good news: players that re-sign with their teams generally accept contracts that are slightly lower cost and more team friendly. More good news- some of our best players are very humble (especially Sherman and Thomas)- I don't see them as being contract diva's telling the media that the Seahawks "had better come correct" in contract negotiations. It is far better to build a team out of your own free agents than from other teams, because you already know how good they will play for you and they usually sign back for a hometown discount of some size. This is a good problem to have.

The bad news is that barring a huge increase in the salary cap, we're probably going to see some talented Seahawks walk away over the next few years. Jason Jones, Alan Branch, maybe even Kam Chancellor and probably Brandon Browner. I don't see Sherman or Thomas going anywhere. Seattle will obviously franchise if it comes to that.

On the bright side, if we lose quality players with pro-bowls on their resumes, we'll likely get comp picks in return. It seems like Pittsburgh and Green Bay have 2-4 comp picks every year. If we lose Chancellor, there is a pretty good chance we'd get the maximum (late 3rd round) pick as compensation, which would be more than the team spent to acquire Chancellor in the first place.

So yeah, the team will probably never have more talent per dollar than it has right now, but if JS manages things right, it should only barely drop off assuming that he can keep churning out 2-3 good players every year in the draft.

As much as I hate to say this.... Pete and JS have shown they can draft on defense very well, so i woudn't be suprised if they keep taking shots at drafting db's every draft and if they hit on one then they might not be so eager to pay Sherman 10 mil a year. Also if they have to chose between Kam and Earl, I think its a no brainer, you got to go with Earl.

taz291819":yzbsaq27 said:

Let's not forget one minor detail. Knock on wood, but I'm betting at least one of those players on the list (besides Jones) gets an injury during their final contract year, which will bring their value down. From the way they play, it's bound to happen.

Regarding Tate, if he continues to play like he's playing now, he's worth a solid #2 WR contract.

Click to expand...

you would bet that one of our young stars gets hurt? :141847_bnono:

I would resign Tate , but no more then 4m a year

EastCoastHawksFan":29acvgmp said:

taz291819":29acvgmp said:

Let's not forget one minor detail. Knock on wood, but I'm betting at least one of those players on the list (besides Jones) gets an injury during their final contract year, which will bring their value down. From the way they play, it's bound to happen.

Regarding Tate, if he continues to play like he's playing now, he's worth a solid #2 WR contract.

Click to expand...

you would bet that one of our young stars gets hurt? :141847_bnono:

I would resign Tate , but no more then 4m a year

Click to expand...

Sorry man, just being realistic. With the way they play and hit, the odds are against them.

And $4m/year for Tate is about right.