Exciting times ... BUT (Fiscal Cliff?)

v1rotv2 · Nov 13, 2012

I have to disagree with the premise that Tate is not as important to the team. His play this year has been outstanding, minus a couple of drops. It looks to me like RW is relying on him to help move the offense. The evidence for me was that first touchdown pass in the Jets game. RW threw it to him despite Tate being covered and sure enough Tate went up and got it. In the third qtr. of that game Tate got a critical first down that by all accounts should not have happened. The guy, in my opinion, is equally if not more important to the offense than Rice only in a different way. Now this is a big statement from me as I was done with Tate early last year. He was immature, not focused and a screw up. But he gets it now and is doing some great stuff.

CANHawk · Nov 13, 2012

^Amen. Tate is super important to the offense. I'm a huge fan of what he brings. I wouldn't even think about parting ways with him at this point (unless he demands a totally stupid contract extension that is.)

Missing_Clink · Nov 13, 2012

Optimism is fun and all, but I think you guys are crazy if you think its likely that Kam, Sherman, or Browner would be willing to give a hometown discount. Remember that they were all low picks / undrafted, making small money in comparison to their production. They have all vastly outplayed their contracts, and the price is probably just going to keep going up. This is a business, and they all have a limited window to make as much money as they can.

It is nice to imagine a world where these NFL players put winning and staying together ahead of dollars, but trust me, those three are ready to get PAID after being some of the biggest bargains in the NFL. Typically, your second contract is the biggest one you get, and I would expect all of these guys to get every dollar they can, as they should.

Unfortunately, that very well may mean we cannot keep them all. Enjoy the Legion of Boom while it lasts. Don't take it for granted

volsunghawk · Nov 13, 2012

Missing_Clink":2b6ueo3i said:
Optimism is fun and all, but I think you guys are crazy if you think its likely that Kam, Sherman, or Browner would be willing to give a hometown discount. Remember that they were all low picks / undrafted, making small money in comparison to their production. They have all vastly outplayed their contracts, and the price is probably just going to keep going up. This is a business, and they all have a limited window to make as much money as they can.

It is nice to imagine a world where these NFL players put winning and staying together ahead of dollars, but trust me, those three are ready to get PAID after being some of the biggest bargains in the NFL. Typically, your second contract is the biggest one you get, and I would expect all of these guys to get every dollar they can, as they should.

Unfortunately, that very well may mean we cannot keep them all. Enjoy the Legion of Boom while it lasts. Don't take it for granted

I think it depends on the theoretical discount we're talking about.

Hypothetical example, does Sherman leave a 4-year, $46 million contract with $30 million guaranteed from Seattle on the table so he can go join the Jaguars for a 4-year, $49 million contract with $31 million guaranteed? The difference is minor overall, but he's got a shot at a championship with the smaller deal and a whole lot of losing ahead with the bigger one. Do you think that would be enough for him to take that "discounted" deal?

CANHawk · Nov 13, 2012

Missing_Clink":18d3yrsw said:
Optimism is fun and all, but I think you guys are crazy if you think its likely that Kam, Sherman, or Browner would be willing to give a hometown discount. Remember that they were all low picks / undrafted, making small money in comparison to their production. They have all vastly outplayed their contracts, and the price is probably just going to keep going up. This is a business, and they all have a limited window to make as much money as they can.

It is nice to imagine a world where these NFL players put winning and staying together ahead of dollars, but trust me, those three are ready to get PAID after being some of the biggest bargains in the NFL. Typically, your second contract is the biggest one you get, and I would expect all of these guys to get every dollar they can, as they should.

Unfortunately, that very well may mean we cannot keep them all. Enjoy the Legion of Boom while it lasts. Don't take it for granted

I don't think anyone is suggesting Sherm would take a contract for $3m/yr when he could otherwise get $9m, but if he takes $8.25m he'll still be dirty rich. And if ET takes a similar small cut, perhaps that little bit compounded means the Hawks have enough room to re-up Kam for a couple of years and keep the band together.

Guys take discounts to play closer to home, play in sunny climates, play for the team they cheered for as kids, heck play for teams with the cool uniforms; so it's not entirely ridiculous to believe that guys might take a little discount to stick together as a group and continue to dominate (and still be dirty rich).

JSeahawks · Nov 13, 2012

Surprised nobody's mentioned this yet but, Russell Wilson should be on that list too. If he becomes what most of us think he'll become and he's playing in a probowl 2 or 3 years down the line and collecting a 3rd round players salary he's definatly going to want to renegotiate. I dont know this for a fact but I would guess that he's the lowest paid starting QB in the league by a landslide.

Its going to suck that we'll have to lose some really good players for financial reasons but I'll choose to look at the positive side of it. The fact that most of our best players are drastically underpaid just proves how great Carroll and Schneider are at finding underrated talent. So the same skill that helped get us into this problem is the same skill that will help replenish the roster and keep us competetive when we have to let some of these guys walk.

FlyingGreg · Nov 13, 2012

JSeahawks":3kqoznco said:
Surprised nobody's mentioned this yet but, Russell Wilson should be on that list too. If he becomes what most of us think he'll become and he's playing in a probowl 2 or 3 years down the line and collecting a 3rd round players salary he's definatly going to want to renegotiate. I dont know this for a fact but I would guess that he's the lowest paid starting QB in the league by a landslide.

Its going to suck that we'll have to lose some really good players for financial reasons but I'll choose to look at the positive side of it. The fact that most of our best players are drastically underpaid just proves how great Carroll and Schneider are at finding underrated talent. So the same skill that helped get us into this problem is the same skill that will help replenish the roster and keep us competetive when we have to let some of these guys walk.

I thought of adding him - but he is in the follow-on wave after our "older" guys. He's signed through 2015 so we will have to deal with the other guys before we get to him.

Missing_Clink · Nov 13, 2012

CANHawk":1lkkw6x1 said:
Missing_Clink":1lkkw6x1 said:

Optimism is fun and all, but I think you guys are crazy if you think its likely that Kam, Sherman, or Browner would be willing to give a hometown discount. Remember that they were all low picks / undrafted, making small money in comparison to their production. They have all vastly outplayed their contracts, and the price is probably just going to keep going up. This is a business, and they all have a limited window to make as much money as they can.

It is nice to imagine a world where these NFL players put winning and staying together ahead of dollars, but trust me, those three are ready to get PAID after being some of the biggest bargains in the NFL. Typically, your second contract is the biggest one you get, and I would expect all of these guys to get every dollar they can, as they should.

Unfortunately, that very well may mean we cannot keep them all. Enjoy the Legion of Boom while it lasts. Don't take it for granted

Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is suggesting Sherm would take a contract for $3m/yr when he could otherwise get $9m, but if he takes $8.25m he'll still be dirty rich. And if ET takes a similar small cut, perhaps that little bit compounded means the Hawks have enough room to re-up Kam for a couple of years and keep the band together.

Guys take discounts to play closer to home, play in sunny climates, play for the team they cheered for as kids, heck play for teams with the cool uniforms; so it's not entirely ridiculous to believe that guys might take a little discount to stick together as a group and continue to dominate (and still be dirty rich).

I hope so man. Don't get me wrong, I really like them all and want them here for their whole careers. Maybe its workable, but there has got to be plenty of cash left over for everyone else on the team too. I mean, arguably, all 4 members of our secondary could end up earning top 5 money at their positions (maybe not Browner but he will still need a big raise). They are that awesome. Would that be workable? I'm not a cap expert so I don't know, but it sure doesn't sound too appealing. I like having good players on offense too :?

JSeahawks · Nov 13, 2012

FlyingGreg":3nohe6lt said:
JSeahawks":3nohe6lt said:

Surprised nobody's mentioned this yet but, Russell Wilson should be on that list too. If he becomes what most of us think he'll become and he's playing in a probowl 2 or 3 years down the line and collecting a 3rd round players salary he's definatly going to want to renegotiate. I dont know this for a fact but I would guess that he's the lowest paid starting QB in the league by a landslide.

Its going to suck that we'll have to lose some really good players for financial reasons but I'll choose to look at the positive side of it. The fact that most of our best players are drastically underpaid just proves how great Carroll and Schneider are at finding underrated talent. So the same skill that helped get us into this problem is the same skill that will help replenish the roster and keep us competetive when we have to let some of these guys walk.

Click to expand...

I thought of adding him - but he is in the follow-on wave after our "older" guys. He's signed through 2015 so we will have to deal with the other guys before we get to him.

I dont think he'll make it to the end of his contract though. I dont think he'd be the type who will get into a nasty holdout situation or anything, but I wouldnt be surprised if our front office were the ones to push for a new contract just to keep him happy and around. I see this happening as soon as after next season if he proves he can avoid the sophomore slump and still be a good quarterback after teams have a year to prepare for him.

kidhawk · Nov 13, 2012

The good news about this, is that we have quite a bit of cap flexibility. Right now we are, I believe, around $15.5 million under the cap. This includes all the contracts from the players mentioned above. Bonuses are structured to last over the length of the contract, so they can be spread out. If the players want to come back and the front office wants them back, we can get the deals done.

JGfromtheNW · Nov 13, 2012

kidhawk":2u5822jt said:
The good news about this, is that we have quite a bit of cap flexibility. Right now we are, I believe, around $15.5 million under the cap. This includes all the contracts from the players mentioned above. Bonuses are structured to last over the length of the contract, so they can be spread out. If the players want to come back and the front office wants them back, we can get the deals done.

What is the cap again? $121 million?

drdiags · Nov 13, 2012

I thought the new CBA removed the option for 1st contract players to re-negotiate their contract? I also thought there were some ways to reward those lower round players that out-performed their contracts but it didn't kick in until after their 2nd year? I guess we will find out with Sherman and maybe Chancellor (he signed under the old CBA) soon?

scutterhawk · Nov 13, 2012

FlyingGreg":1gz6bpz6 said:
Jazzhawk":1gz6bpz6 said:

Earl Thomas
Richard Sherman
Kam Chancellor
KJ Wright
Brandon Browner

Golden Tate
Jason Jones
Alan Branch

Click to expand...

The first 5, to me, are the identity of the team and are critical to keep. The last three I like, but I don't see them as critical in growing the team. Golden is coming into his own, but I think there are rookies in the draft that can be had to replicate what he gives us, and the same with Branch and Jones. Does that mean I want to jettison them? No, I would love to have long-term relationships for them here. I just know I won't lose sleep if we can't keep them. I don't feel that way about the Legion of Boom, however.

Click to expand...

Yep. Plus we need to consider that we are most likely going to add a WR/TE in the 1st round come April.

Not so sure that Tate would be so easily replaced, as we all know what happens when continuety gets interrupted, he seems to have made a lot of progress from his first Year, + I would want to know what his asking $ is, and what the other teams are willing to pay for his services before letting him walk.

seahawks08 · Nov 13, 2012

drdiags":1g4cbze6 said:
I thought the new CBA removed the option for 1st contract players to re-negotiate their contract? I also thought there were some ways to reward those lower round players that out-performed their contracts but it didn't kick in until after their 2nd year? I guess we will find out with Sherman and maybe Chancellor (he signed under the old CBA) soon?

I think Sherman is part of the new CBA, which means his contract cannot be renegotiated until the end of his contract?

BlueTalons · Nov 13, 2012

I think Tate could be kept for a bag of doughnuts...just sayin'... :mrgreen:

CANHawk · Nov 13, 2012

Good info on cap stuffs here: http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/FAQ.aspx

And yeah, I think we'll be okay. We'll no doubt have some tough decisions to make and have to say goodbye to some really good guys who might end up leaving town, but the core will remain intact and no doubt more diamonds in the rough will be found to replace them after they leave (actually, I think the trend will be for diamonds in the rough to already be in the house when we decide to part ways with guys). Just think; we stand to actually be one of those teams that gets a player's best years for a good price as opposed to being the team that constantly overpays for one guy who's starting to decline.

This is a phenomenal problem to have (for once). Like how we have two potential starting quarterbacks... oh woe is us, which one do we start..?

HansGruber · Nov 13, 2012

drdiags":3rbpny29 said:
I thought the new CBA removed the option for 1st contract players to re-negotiate their contract? I also thought there were some ways to reward those lower round players that out-performed their contracts but it didn't kick in until after their 2nd year? I guess we will find out with Sherman and maybe Chancellor (he signed under the old CBA) soon?

Yeah I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet but all the rookies (including Browner) are forbidden by the new CBA to renegotiate their contracts or sign any extension for the first 3 years of their deal. I believe that increases to 4 years for first round picks (Irvin). We can forget about signing Sherman or Wilson to long term extensions for a couple more years. That isn't possible.

CANHawk · Nov 13, 2012

HansGruber":vekezv55 said:
drdiags":vekezv55 said:

I thought the new CBA removed the option for 1st contract players to re-negotiate their contract? I also thought there were some ways to reward those lower round players that out-performed their contracts but it didn't kick in until after their 2nd year? I guess we will find out with Sherman and maybe Chancellor (he signed under the old CBA) soon?

Click to expand...

Yeah I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet but all the rookies (including Browner) are forbidden by the new CBA to renegotiate their contracts or sign any extension for the first 3 years of their deal. I believe that increases to 4 years for first round picks (Irvin). We can forget about signing Sherman or Wilson to long term extensions for a couple more years. That isn't possible.

You sure Browner's in there? He wasn't technically a rookie last year on account of the fact he signed a training camp contract with Denver way back in 05 and spent the whole year on their IR list b/c of a broken arm (thanks Wikipedia).

MLOhawks · Nov 13, 2012

I like Browner more than Sherm, but we got to keep ALL FOUR of our secondary. It would be a disaster if we lost any of them.

drdiags · Nov 13, 2012

Looking at that CBA link, which appears to take the new CBA into account, I am not sure anymore about Rookie contracts. If the Cap Guru is correct, a rookie contract can be re-negotiated a year after it is signed. Hmmm. Not what I remember reading/hearing. Old age stinks!

Exciting times ... BUT (Fiscal Cliff?)

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