Good discussion going on 710 right now about all the "cheap" contracts that we are lucky to have on the books right now, and how the front office is going to have it's hands full managing the cap and trying to keep the core intact. Interestingly, when I got to chat with John Schneider at camp last summer I mentioned this and he kind of sighed and smiled and acknolwedged.

Look at this list of players that will be looking for FAT new deals in the next few seasons:

Earl Thomas
Richard Sherman
Kam Chancellor
KJ Wright
Brandon Browner
Golden Tate
Jason Jones
Doug Baldwin
Alan Branch

Some tough decisions coming down range.... for my two cents, Sherman and Thomas are the most critical. The upside is, this front office has proven their worth in finding diamonds in the rough.

Good bye week discussion, I think.

What do you fanatics think?

_________________
@SeahawkGreg



"I will be thrilled with 10 wins.... If we win 14 games, I will tattoo my nuts green and blue!" --13thMan

I agree - Thomas, Sherman anything they want they'll get. Everyone else you kind of hope you can sign early before the contract ends. I really hope they work something out with Kam sooner than later. I think he can get a quality contract w/o the Seahawks breaking the bank.

Otherwise, you roll the dice and let them go the market. I'd let Tate walk. I know he's the flavor of the week now but I've never been high on him.

The first 5, to me, are the identity of the team and are critical to keep. The last three I like, but I don't see them as critical in growing the team. Golden is coming into his own, but I think there are rookies in the draft that can be had to replicate what he gives us, and the same with Branch and Jones. Does that mean I want to jettison them? No, I would love to have long-term relationships for them here. I just know I won't lose sleep if we can't keep them. I don't feel that way about the Legion of Boom, however.

_________________

Yep. Plus we need to consider that we are most likely going to add a WR/TE in the 1st round come April.

_________________
@SeahawkGreg



"I will be thrilled with 10 wins.... If we win 14 games, I will tattoo my nuts green and blue!" --13thMan

Jones will be taken care of during this off season, if PCJS want him back. That guy can be scratched off that list. To be honest Browner is a bit older, and shouldn't demand much of a price tag (I don't know how long he has on his current contract). Branch is replaceable, but would be nice to keep around. IMHO of course.

_________________

The only thing that's scary about Sherm is - just how good is he going to be considered "by the league" by the time his contract is up? Shoot, based on the way he's playing he could easily be in the discussion for best CB in the league, and top CB's get CRAZY contracts. Not that I wouldn't love to keep him, or that he doesn't deserve it - but would you do it at the cost of dismantling the D? Probably. Tough decisions though.

Sort of on topic - I'm attached to the players on this team, in particular the defense more than any Seahawks team I can remember. I know it's borderline impossible for them to keep that group together, but I sure hope so.

_________________

I think Browner falls in that bottom category as well. Yes he's doing well, but he is getting near 30 years old. WIth the way this front office likes to draft corners I see him as most replaceable in the secondary. Scruggs and Howard can take over for Jones. Branch is limited so I'd hope we'd for a young buc in the draft to take his spot.

I don't think Baldwin or Tate will command huge contracts. We will have to see what happens next year too with those guys. The secondary is going to be pricey as hell. Don't expect much in the way of hometown discounts from those guys, considering only one of them was a high draft pick. I am sure all of them are ready to get PAID. Browner especially, considering he is older. I sure as hell hope we can keep them all though.

Would you be in favor of offering him a new contract this offseason, in hopes of getting him on the cheap, knowing a few years down the road he may be the top CB in the league. I think that's a option that needs looking at. Perhaps sign a guy or two with a few years left on their original contract if it means saving money down the road. If we wait until their contract year it will most likely cost us significantly more.

I thought FieldGulls or HawkBlogger wrote a pretty detailed description of the state of contracts for each player on the team and the years they come due. Branch is probably gone. Jones is a tough call. He hasn't been healthy since training camp but makes an impact when he is on the field. I think the Seahawks will pass on re-signing him. Fans are calling for his re-signing but his health seems a red-flag.

Leroy Hill and Trufant are most likely not to return. Browner seems the odd man out and possibly Chancellor, though this would be a tough one to swallow for the DBs that remain.

EDIT: It was HawkBlogger who did a 5 year look. Check it out for reference if you will:

http://www.hawkblogger.com/2012/11/five-year-seahawks-roster-outlook.html

_________________

Leon Washington 2010-2012 Red Bryant 2008-2013 Chris Clemons 2010-2013 Golden Tate 2010-2013
Brandon Browner 2011-2013 Breno Giacomini 2011-2013 - Gone but not forgotten.
Wilson will sign for $18M+ (3/4/2014)

Somewhere there was an article with the contract numbers of the players but I couldn't find it.

_________________

Leon Washington 2010-2012 Red Bryant 2008-2013 Chris Clemons 2010-2013 Golden Tate 2010-2013
Brandon Browner 2011-2013 Breno Giacomini 2011-2013 - Gone but not forgotten.
Wilson will sign for $18M+ (3/4/2014)

I like Browner a lot, but I'd switch him and Jones. And I'd think real hard about putting Tate into that top category if he can continue showing the progress he has this season.

If Schneider has learned how to stagger contracts and manage the roster like they have for years in Green Bay, then I imagine we'll be in decent shape cap-wise for the foreseeable future. Obviously, we'll have some guys leave for greener ($) pastures, but I think we should be able to keep our core/crucial players and continue to bring new guys along that can step in and contribute when our Branches, Giacominis, etc. move on to other teams.

_________________


Super Bowl XLVIII Champions

Ultimus Prime, ET and Jones. We've all seen how critical Jones is to the defense when they lost him for a few weeks. His presence is felt immediately in ways that are not obvious on his stat sheet.

_________________
Richard Sherman doesn't just wanna get in your head, he wants to build a vacation home there.

R. Sherman: "I don't want to be an island. I want to be a tourist attraction. You come, I take your money & you go."

I think Sherman might be willing to give us a hometown discount. He seems like the kind of person to repay Seattle's faith in him, particularly as I don't see Schneider lowballing him with an offer.

_________________
Super Bowl Champions XVLIII

We have to break the bank to keep Sherman. You typically need a top 5-10 pick to find a CB of his calibre (and then cross your fingers that he doesn't bust). His personal character and personality only enhance that. He's one of the NFL's biggest steals in recent memory.

I find myself wondering if there might be the possibility of small discounts from several of the key guys who have been buildings blocks for this team as it enters its window of contention. I'm not naive enough to expect it by any stretch, but wouldn't it be cool if Earl Thomas, for example, was willing to take a slightly-less-than-top-dollar extension as the leader of a defense becoming the elite D of a yearly SB contender... that he helped make happen?

_________________


Super Bowl XLVIII Champions

Interesting angle. I know they would all love to stay together, you can see how close they are all...

_________________
@SeahawkGreg



"I will be thrilled with 10 wins.... If we win 14 games, I will tattoo my nuts green and blue!" --13thMan

Yeah, that was part of my thinking as well. It's why I could see John Schneider staying even if the Green Bay GM job opened up. Granted, this is just speculation, but seeing how the players have bonded with each other and how dedicated JS/PC and all the players seem to be to the team, I could see them all wanting to stick around to accomplish that goal of winning a championship. If the dollars aren't really all that different (i.e., if Schneider doesn't try to completely lowball a guy), then I could see our core staying intact for a really long time.

_________________


Super Bowl XLVIII Champions

I would love it too.

And I know he's older and maybe not as good as Sherm but I love me some Browner. He gets a small holding penalty or two a game but he's our very own Ike Taylor.

_________________

For all that I loooove me some LoB, I think Kam might be the most "replaceable" in the group (even though he am mann as hitter tackler). And when I say "replaceable", I'm not trying to imply that Kam Chancellors grow on trees, but I mean "replaceable" as in terms of offers the smallest potential drop off in production of the secondary as a unit (and there would be a drop off cuz Kam is dope, but not as much as losing Sherm or ET). For the hard hitting in the box SS, I think our FO guys will be able to find one of those `tweener guys who's not quite a LB and not quite a safety somewhere in the later rounds same way we found Kam in the first place (maybe we already have one being groomed in Winson Guy). If Kam doesn't come cheap on the re-up, I can see him being a cap casualty.

I can definately see us freeing up some cap room by getting out of the contracts for Matt Flynn (d'uh) and Leon Washington early (it's not Leon's contract that's big, but the dead cap space dedicated to his likely to be earned performance incentives that are no longer likely to be earned due to the kickoff change). Leon would likely restructure to a cap freindlier deal given his age, but Flynn would probably be released outright before the big money years of his $20m contract kick in next year.

Browner........... I dunno. He's such a big part of what we do, but he's also going to be 30 by the time his contract is up in 2014. To be honest, out of the whole lot of em, Browner's the one I can see being the most likely to hold out next year (he's only set to make $550k next year). I think dude absolutely deserves to get paid, but I also don't necessarily know if he'll be worth the cap hit (especially with guys like T3, Byron Maxwell and Jeremy Lane waiting in the wings).

Yeah... juggling the cap is definately going to be difficult over the coming years. But it'll be interesting to see how they do it.Hey, if it looks like we're really close to being a super bowl team, guys might very well give a bit of a hometown discount in the interest of keeping the band together and getting a ring (not everyone's all about the money after all).

_________________
I <3 Nunchucks

I have to disagree with the premise that Tate is not as important to the team. His play this year has been outstanding, minus a couple of drops. It looks to me like RW is relying on him to help move the offense. The evidence for me was that first touchdown pass in the Jets game. RW threw it to him despite Tate being covered and sure enough Tate went up and got it. In the third qtr. of that game Tate got a critical first down that by all accounts should not have happened. The guy, in my opinion, is equally if not more important to the offense than Rice only in a different way. Now this is a big statement from me as I was done with Tate early last year. He was immature, not focused and a screw up. But he gets it now and is doing some great stuff.

_________________
" Living on Earth isn't cheap, but it does include a yearly free trip around the sun."

^Amen. Tate is super important to the offense. I'm a huge fan of what he brings. I wouldn't even think about parting ways with him at this point (unless he demands a totally stupid contract extension that is.)

_________________
I <3 Nunchucks

Optimism is fun and all, but I think you guys are crazy if you think its likely that Kam, Sherman, or Browner would be willing to give a hometown discount. Remember that they were all low picks / undrafted, making small money in comparison to their production. They have all vastly outplayed their contracts, and the price is probably just going to keep going up. This is a business, and they all have a limited window to make as much money as they can.

It is nice to imagine a world where these NFL players put winning and staying together ahead of dollars, but trust me, those three are ready to get PAID after being some of the biggest bargains in the NFL. Typically, your second contract is the biggest one you get, and I would expect all of these guys to get every dollar they can, as they should.

Unfortunately, that very well may mean we cannot keep them all. Enjoy the Legion of Boom while it lasts. Don't take it for granted

I think it depends on the theoretical discount we're talking about.

Hypothetical example, does Sherman leave a 4-year, $46 million contract with $30 million guaranteed from Seattle on the table so he can go join the Jaguars for a 4-year, $49 million contract with $31 million guaranteed? The difference is minor overall, but he's got a shot at a championship with the smaller deal and a whole lot of losing ahead with the bigger one. Do you think that would be enough for him to take that "discounted" deal?

_________________


Super Bowl XLVIII Champions

I don't think anyone is suggesting Sherm would take a contract for $3m/yr when he could otherwise get $9m, but if he takes $8.25m he'll still be dirty rich. And if ET takes a similar small cut, perhaps that little bit compounded means the Hawks have enough room to re-up Kam for a couple of years and keep the band together.

Guys take discounts to play closer to home, play in sunny climates, play for the team they cheered for as kids, heck play for teams with the cool uniforms; so it's not entirely ridiculous to believe that guys might take a little discount to stick together as a group and continue to dominate (and still be dirty rich).

_________________
I <3 Nunchucks

Surprised nobody's mentioned this yet but, Russell Wilson should be on that list too. If he becomes what most of us think he'll become and he's playing in a probowl 2 or 3 years down the line and collecting a 3rd round players salary he's definatly going to want to renegotiate. I dont know this for a fact but I would guess that he's the lowest paid starting QB in the league by a landslide.

Its going to suck that we'll have to lose some really good players for financial reasons but I'll choose to look at the positive side of it. The fact that most of our best players are drastically underpaid just proves how great Carroll and Schneider are at finding underrated talent. So the same skill that helped get us into this problem is the same skill that will help replenish the roster and keep us competetive when we have to let some of these guys walk.

_________________

I thought of adding him - but he is in the follow-on wave after our "older" guys. He's signed through 2015 so we will have to deal with the other guys before we get to him.

_________________
@SeahawkGreg



"I will be thrilled with 10 wins.... If we win 14 games, I will tattoo my nuts green and blue!" --13thMan

I hope so man. Don't get me wrong, I really like them all and want them here for their whole careers. Maybe its workable, but there has got to be plenty of cash left over for everyone else on the team too. I mean, arguably, all 4 members of our secondary could end up earning top 5 money at their positions (maybe not Browner but he will still need a big raise). They are that awesome. Would that be workable? I'm not a cap expert so I don't know, but it sure doesn't sound too appealing. I like having good players on offense too

I dont think he'll make it to the end of his contract though. I dont think he'd be the type who will get into a nasty holdout situation or anything, but I wouldnt be surprised if our front office were the ones to push for a new contract just to keep him happy and around. I see this happening as soon as after next season if he proves he can avoid the sophomore slump and still be a good quarterback after teams have a year to prepare for him.

_________________

The good news about this, is that we have quite a bit of cap flexibility. Right now we are, I believe, around $15.5 million under the cap. This includes all the contracts from the players mentioned above. Bonuses are structured to last over the length of the contract, so they can be spread out. If the players want to come back and the front office wants them back, we can get the deals done.

_________________

What is the cap again? $121 million?

I thought the new CBA removed the option for 1st contract players to re-negotiate their contract? I also thought there were some ways to reward those lower round players that out-performed their contracts but it didn't kick in until after their 2nd year? I guess we will find out with Sherman and maybe Chancellor (he signed under the old CBA) soon?

_________________

Leon Washington 2010-2012 Red Bryant 2008-2013 Chris Clemons 2010-2013 Golden Tate 2010-2013
Brandon Browner 2011-2013 Breno Giacomini 2011-2013 - Gone but not forgotten.
Wilson will sign for $18M+ (3/4/2014)

Not so sure that Tate would be so easily replaced, as we all know what happens when continuety gets interrupted, he seems to have made a lot of progress from his first Year, + I would want to know what his asking $ is, and what the other teams are willing to pay for his services before letting him walk.

I think Sherman is part of the new CBA, which means his contract cannot be renegotiated until the end of his contract?

I think Tate could be kept for a bag of doughnuts...just sayin'...

_________________

"Make good teams look bad and make bad teams look terrible!" -Michael Robinson

Good info on cap stuffs here: http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/FAQ.aspx

And yeah, I think we'll be okay. We'll no doubt have some tough decisions to make and have to say goodbye to some really good guys who might end up leaving town, but the core will remain intact and no doubt more diamonds in the rough will be found to replace them after they leave (actually, I think the trend will be for diamonds in the rough to already be in the house when we decide to part ways with guys). Just think; we stand to actually be one of those teams that gets a player's best years for a good price as opposed to being the team that constantly overpays for one guy who's starting to decline.

This is a phenomenal problem to have (for once). Like how we have two potential starting quarterbacks... oh woe is us, which one do we start..?

_________________
I <3 Nunchucks

Yeah I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet but all the rookies (including Browner) are forbidden by the new CBA to renegotiate their contracts or sign any extension for the first 3 years of their deal. I believe that increases to 4 years for first round picks (Irvin). We can forget about signing Sherman or Wilson to long term extensions for a couple more years. That isn't possible.

You sure Browner's in there? He wasn't technically a rookie last year on account of the fact he signed a training camp contract with Denver way back in 05 and spent the whole year on their IR list b/c of a broken arm (thanks Wikipedia).

_________________
I <3 Nunchucks

I like Browner more than Sherm, but we got to keep ALL FOUR of our secondary. It would be a disaster if we lost any of them.

_________________
"Are we rockin' and rollin' or what?!''

-- Seattle coach Pete Carroll, celebrating with his coaches after the Seahawks pulled off a trade with the Jets, netting running back Leon Washington on Saturday, via Seahawks.com

Looking at that CBA link, which appears to take the new CBA into account, I am not sure anymore about Rookie contracts. If the Cap Guru is correct, a rookie contract can be re-negotiated a year after it is signed. Hmmm. Not what I remember reading/hearing. Old age stinks!

_________________

Leon Washington 2010-2012 Red Bryant 2008-2013 Chris Clemons 2010-2013 Golden Tate 2010-2013
Brandon Browner 2011-2013 Breno Giacomini 2011-2013 - Gone but not forgotten.
Wilson will sign for $18M+ (3/4/2014)

Thanks Guys ....... I didn't want to be the one to inject those realities into this discussion. Much appreciated!

The bench is over there

This thread is a perfect example as to why you don't "play for the future," you have to play for now because you don't know what the team will look like in the future.

Obviously Carroll and Schneider have put together a fantastic young team (I think the 2nd or 3rd youngest in the league?). But the downside is all the great young players are going to all want to get paid in the future.

PS. Don't forget Wilson on your list of players. Can't tell me his agent isn't going to want to restructure his contract in 2014, or maybe even 2013 if all goes well and we make the playoffs.

_________________
If there is no Seahawk football in heaven, then we will never die.

ET- give him market value for a top 3 FS in the league. No problem.
Sherman- Give him market value for top 5 CB in the league. No problem.
Wright- We will resign at a thrifty price of 4-5 M for 5 years.
Browner- We'll have to see what happens with him. He is actually quite a bit older already, and we may be able to find someone who can fill that spot should Browner's demands be high. I'm not guessing more than 3.5M per for 2 years.
Tate- He's played well, but his value is still relatively low.
Jones- Ultimately I think we probably only resigned one of him or Branch, and Scruggs looks to be a cheaper, yet serviceable player.
Baldwin- Market value for him will be low. A WR specialist who doesn't play every down.
Branch- I think we will resign him for about what he makes now.

It's a good issue to be talking about but Schneider is about as thrifty as a...well I won't finish that as I don't want to offend anyone.

_________________


"We all we got, we all we need"

What you have to ask is...could a cheaper rookie do his job? That's it...it's a bidness, and I waod say that any number of 4-7 draft picks can do what he does...and get separation as well on a consistent basis.

Had a great year..but replaceable

In fact I could argue that a faster taller version I him could do more!
And cheaper mid round pick with a chip on his shoulder fighting for veteran contract

As has been mentioned several times in this thread, Wilson can't renegotiate his contract due to the CBA.

_________________
Super Bowl Champions XVLIII

The new CBA states that rookies picked between the 2nd and 7th rounds can either re-negotiate or ask for free agency after their four years are up. Which one do you think Wilson and his agent will do? Personally I think he will ask to have his contract re-negotiated to be in line with being an NFL starter. Thus my point is still valid.

_________________
If there is no Seahawk football in heaven, then we will never die.

Apparently you have poor addition skills, then. 4 years from 2012 is 2016. So I'm not sure how your point is still valid.

_________________
Super Bowl Champions XVLIII

Well that may be true but... look at the year Tate was drafted. 22 wide recievers were drafted after Tate in 2010 and maybe only 2 or 3 have contributed more than Golden Tate has; Mike Williams TB 3rd round, Eric Decker DEN 3rd and Antonio Brown PIT 6th. That means every one of those 4-7 round picks that you claim "can do what he does" and be cut out to be our #2 WR all flopped save for one (Antonio Brown - and the one that did hit was a total fluke pick that played Div 1 for Central Michigan that nobody saw coming).

Might we be able to draft a WR who can do what Tate does? More than likely. If we did draft a replacement #2 WR and let Tate walk, would that guy come from the 4-7th round? Maaaaaaaybe (but probably not). And if we did draft "some guy" from the 4-7th round to replace Tate, would he be as productive as Tate is now right away? Very likely no.

A bird in the hand, yadda yadda yadda...

Tate has admittedly taken a long time to prove he was worth that 2nd round pick (that was almost a 3rd round pick), but he's now proven that at the very least his floor is that of a #2 WR in this league. The guy is young (24) and still very much improving. I still can see the potential of Steve Smith or Percey Harvin level production out of this guy. To just let him go because "some guy" might be able to do kinda what he does but only cheaper would be a mistake.

I seriously don't get the Tate hate around here sometimes. Kid is a baller and we're lucky to have him.

_________________
I <3 Nunchucks