A discussion about your culture relative to your building.

The Radish

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I've never been in the Tampa stadium but have been by it lots of times visiting our daughter when she lived there.

For those who haven't seen it, its really flat compared to Seahawks Stadium and others that feature noisey fans.

Easy to see why the fans perhaps feel a bit disconnected from the action. Wasn't it called the Big Sombrero in the past? That's what it looks like, a big hat with pretty flat rings around it. Most fans are actually looking across the teams rather than down on the action. That would make a big difference to me.

:les:
 
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Djphinfan

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Blitzfan":koqp1378 said:
In my opinion the building plays a part in the atmosphere, but it's just a part. We have a tradition here with the 12th man that goes back way before this stadium was built. This fan base was very hungry for pro football from the start and that transformed itself to rowdiness during games. A lot of people carried over that college atmosphere from the UW to the Kingdome. In 1984 the team retired the number 12 in recognition of the fans and their support. Also around the same time the NFL tried to but noise rules in place because of us.

Fast forward to the Clink and the tradition was continued, but in a more intimate building. The team itself does a great job riling up the crowd with some great pregame rituals. So much so that by kick off, the fans are at a fever pitch. During the games the team does a number of things to keep the fans engaged, like keeping a total of false starts we have a caused and celebrating each new one. All these play a part, but in the end I feel its about passion for the team, a passion the players feel and is reciprocated.

Metallica summed it up best in the song Battery. It starts "Lashing out the action, Returning the reaction, Weak are ripped and torn away"

While this situation is not what the song is about, it perfect describes the exchange of energy between the crowd and the team.
I agree with that to an extent, good info, at some point though I feel like the actual closeness in proximity has a lot to do with the energy that can be created, the advantages, and trickle down affect that come with it.
 

HansGruber

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Djphinfan":3hqxxzlq said:
A question for you..do you feel that your fans show up on time in the beginning of the game because they don't want to miss the energy?

Yes and no.

The stands are actually pretty empty right up until kickoff. It's really noticeable, having lived in other cities and attended games in other stadiums. The Seattle crowd tends to show up at the last minute, but are pretty intense from the get-go.

I've also noticed that outside of the "12" flag raising ceremony, the crowd intensity in Seattle starts at about 75% and works its way up to 100% during the first few drives. So it's not like it starts intense and then calms down a bit. It's generally the other way around. Starts intense, but then gets really insane a few drives into the game.
 

Hawks46

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There is an interesting point as to the "energy" of the building. It was built to channel noise, that's true, but when it gets truly loud there, you can actually feel the floor vibrate. So, maybe we feed off of that energy that the building creates.

After the Marshawn Lynch run in the playoffs 2 years ago, we actually registered seismic activity. THat also lends to the theory that the building, once engaged by the fans, creates it's own energy.

Damn, that almost sounds supernatural. You'd really have to experience it to believe it.
 

v1rotv2

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Djphinfan":1drie8fq said:
v1rotv2":1drie8fq said:
As a season ticket holder while the team was still in the King Dome I can say that the fans felt that they were intimate with he game and team. It seemed as though every fan in that building was close to the action and just as important the team. There literally was not a bad seat in the house. The climb to the upper reaches was steep but that is what made even the nosebleed seats seem close. And the noise we could generate was tremendous. My wife would bring ear plugs because it would actually hurt her ears.

The reason I talked about the old Kingdom was because despite all it's other faults these were it greatest strengths and the planners and designers were tasked by Mr. Allen to build in those same qualities in an open air stadium. He understands how paramount the fan experience is and what made it happen. There is no greater feeling for a fan than knowing they can affect the game.

The Clink has it all.
that is just awesome, I can't seem to find any articles on this specific vision by Allen..?

I don't know if you have the capability to get recorded interviews from the time but there were several on camera interviews with the folks involved. Getting financing for the stadium was a big deal at the time and there was plenty of media coverage.
 

twelfman

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The effect starts when you get close to the stadium and notice streets named for former greats and you occasionally hear seahawks chants starting outside
They have the usual pregame kids dash for the prize of some kind and then the opposing team gets on the field to many boos and even before they are all out the music starts, the sirens go off and the announcer introduces the team , they run out onto the field amidst a volley of fireworks and then different music starts and they give you a little back story of the 12th man flagraiser this week and then they raise the flag who is accompanied by our own seahawks drum core playing behind him
Inside the stadium is very nice and they display every high school football helmet in the state along with tons of sehawk related items from the past
The view from most seats isn't just good they are down right sweet
There are so many more things to like about this place it truly is a you have to see it for yourself atmosphere
 

scutterhawk

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Djphinfan":2vhtfaa5 said:
Throwdown":2vhtfaa5 said:
I'd say it gives our defense an edge.

Our DE's get off the snap quicker than opposing OL players, The defense just really feeds off the energy the fans provide. Offense seems to be that way too.
people I debate on this topic would merely say to you that if a pro athlete needs to motivated by fans, there is something wrong with the athlete, almost a lack of understanding that the game is emotional, and that home crowd intensity can affect a players performance.

Paul Allen is a Seahawks fan, and with that mindset wants to INCLUDE the fans in Seattle in the mix.
You can't expect fans to be pushed out of the equation, and expect them to be enthusiastic about buying tickets, when there's a disconnect between the Fans and the players.

Focus on the 12th man, It's a no brainer.
 

MontanaHawk05

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I'm going to go in a different direction with this, Djphinfan...I don't think it has much to do with the Clink at all. Our 2008 and 2009 seasons proved that the energy of our home stadium was powerless to help an old, weak, poorly coached team. The Seahawks weren't talented, weren't gelling, weren't winning, and most importantly had no discernible direction. We were getting routinely beat at home, all the time, by quarterbacks who have since turned out to be terrible.

It was just an awful situation, and it came down to talent and coaching. The stadium didn't help at all. A few years of it, and I'm sure our attendance would be dropping like yours is.

The attitude you see on this current Seahawks team, I'd ascribe it more to these things than the Clink:


1. A lot of the intensity that this team has projects from Pete Carroll himself. He's the youngest 60-year-old I've ever seen, leads by example, practices what he preaches, constantly pumped up. For all the rah-rah grief that he gets, I'll bet the players love to score just to see him celebrate on the sidelines.

2. There's accountability in this organization that keeps everyone on their toes. Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider are constantly shuffling the roster and implicitly threatening jobs by doing so. This is a stone-cold front office that has no problem putting people out to pasture. We've had expensive free agents cut (and their cap hits swallowed), first-round picks displaced in favor of off-the-street guys, zero consideration given for cost, seniority, or incumbency. This creates maximum effort and week-to-week awareness from the players.

3. Many of this team's draftees have chips on their shoulders. Our current secondary mostly went under-drafted (vastly so in the case of Richard Sherman), our QB gets dismissed by everyone for being too short, our running back and fullback got tossed aside by their old teams, and in the end you've got a ton of guys who feel that they have something to prove to the league. They play hard to prove it.

4. We've won. I hate to say it, but the best way to get a roster AND a fan base interested is to start winning. Pete Carroll came in and immediately won some games that nobody expected them to win - the San Diego and Chicago games in 2010, the Saints playoff win of course, beating the Giants on the road in 2011 (before they won the Super Bowl), and this year squeaking out wins over some high-flying passing offenses. It got the team believing in itself and its ability to beat the odds.
 

kearly

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Well first of all, there is a pretty massive demographic/culture difference between Seattle and Miami. I won't risk sounding like Glenn Beck by going into the details, but really about the only thing Seattle and Miami have in common is how they vote.

Another difference is that up here we suffer from East coast bias- something Miami doesn't have to worry about. We are kind of an introverted society up here so I think that naturally leads to some insecurity. I don't know if that explains the origins of the 12thman and the intense pride Seahawks fans feel for impacting a game, but that's my theory. We want to show the world that WE are the most passionate fans on the planet and we love knowing that our efforts have an impact on the outcomes of games. We truly do feel like we are more than fans- we are a part of our football team.

The 12thman thing goes back to the 80's kingdome days. Our stadium plays a role, but I'd say it's mostly culture more than the stadium. No offense, but Miami is kind of infamous for being laissez-faire as a fan base. They are relaxed, hands off. Your baseball team is famous for having the most indifferent fan base in the majors- despite two recent championships. The dolphins aren't as bad, but it's a similarly relaxed atmosphere.

The Kingdome and Seahawks Stadium were built to be loud, but it's the culture that is responsible for the impact. Without the culture, our stadium wouldn't be any louder than most other stadiums.

As far as getting that kind of culture shift in Miami, that's tough. Up here in the NW, we are an odd bunch, and I think that kind of fuels right into the 12thman idea. There aren't a lot of other places I could see a 12thman type culture popping up. Maybe Minnesota since they have a dome, an odd, introverted fanbase with very similar demographics, a hunger to win a championship stemming from a history of losing (mostly), and poor winter weather. Arizona seems like 12thman-lite since they got their new stadium. It's hard to create though. It takes the right mixture of elements.
 

LudwigsDrummer

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Here's the deal.
If we played in a garbage can, we would blow the roof off of it.
It doesn't matter if the Seahawks play in The Kingdome (where #12 became famous-noise rule instituted), Husky Stadium, or The Clink.
We are passionate about our team, even though we have never won it all.
All of this comes from what is inside of us. It is who we are. It is what we believe.

We are The Twelve.
 

Seahwkgal

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Hey now...Not all hawk fans are from the PNW. Just sayin....Ok, I will admit that I became a Hawk fan because I lived in WA back in 77-84 but now I live out east. In fact, I was quite surprised at the Hawk fans that were at the Lions game I attended. It was sweet.
 

Lords of Scythia

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The old Kingdome was cheap concrete POS - it was a noisy effin football venue just by accident - when they built the new one they made sure to engineer in crowd noise to replace what we were losing in the Kingdome - it sure worked!
 

BlueTalon

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According to James Poulson, architect for the firm that designed C-Link, "We didn't go into it with the intention of making it a loud stadium. The things that we did for weather protection, for sight lines, and getting fans closer to the action, contributed to bouncing sound back down to the field."

Getting the fans closer to the action was actually the only option they had. When the decision was made to build the new stadium on the site of the King Dome, it meant they had to fit the new stadium into the same space the old one occupied, which was surrounded by buildings and other infrastructure. C-link has one of the smallest stadium footprints (if not the smallest) in the entire NFL. It simply wasn't possible to build a sprawling stadium park -- that option didn't exist. So in order to fit ~67,000 fans into the new stadium, they basically had to stack them in there.

The main reason the atmosphere at C-Link is likely never to be recaptured anywhere else, besides the lack of hyper-caffeinated 12th Men, is the fact that nobody is ever going to build an NFL stadium that small again. You see the effect of that in Miami. Also at Fed-Ex Field, also in Jerry's Jungle-gym -- 90K-100K people in the stands, that are not as loud as the 67K at C-link, because they are a lot more spread out in the huge seating capacity demanded in newer bigger stadiums.




(edited = typo)
 

JGfromtheNW

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I will go with most of the others and say that it takes a mixture of things to generate the excitement and energy at the Clink.

Montanahawk is dead on in regards to that place being flat when a team is underperforming. I would say 2008 to games in 2010, there was an underwhelming amount of energy and noise created at Seahawks Stadium. I would say this happened because our team was not winning. Granted, there were still a large number of boisterous fans, the overall excitement level wasn't there. I recall going to the game in 2010 vs. KC and, while being boozed up with the buddies and screaming our heads off, there was not the electricity in the air like going to games in 05-06.

Seattle, specifically at the Clink, has been blessed with two teams that have been overall pretty successful since they have started playing there. It is undeniable that the the atmosphere at Sounders games is also amazing. Every Sounders game that I have gone to has had an energy I didn't know was possible in the USA.

I think the success of the team at the time, the personality of the team (as someone said, very underdog-ish/chip on the shoulder type), the die-hard fans and the design of the stadium all play a part.
 

JGfromtheNW

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We also got killed by KC 42-24 in that game. Hasslebeck and the D played terrible.
 
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Djphinfan

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Hawks46":274sgxo1 said:
There is an interesting point as to the "energy" of the building. It was built to channel noise, that's true, but when it gets truly loud there, you can actually feel the floor vibrate. So, maybe we feed off of that energy that the building creates.

After the Marshawn Lynch run in the playoffs 2 years ago, we actually registered seismic activity. THat also lends to the theory that the building, once engaged by the fans, creates it's own energy.

Damn, that almost sounds supernatural. You'd really have to experience it to believe it.

Sir, have you ever been to the orange bowl??...58 strait happened there under my watch, I know exactly what your talking about, and when you compare to what we had, what you have today, maybe you can understand this theory even more..my team plays on a neutral field each time were home..that's got to account for something, and imo, it counts for more than people will open their minds too, and all of it, is negative.
 
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Djphinfan

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twelfman":1n4fs0mf said:
The effect starts when you get close to the stadium and notice streets named for former greats and you occasionally hear seahawks chants starting outside
They have the usual pregame kids dash for the prize of some kind and then the opposing team gets on the field to many boos and even before they are all out the music starts, the sirens go off and the announcer introduces the team , they run out onto the field amidst a volley of fireworks and then different music starts and they give you a little back story of the 12th man flagraiser this week and then they raise the flag who is accompanied by our own seahawks drum core playing behind him
Inside the stadium is very nice and they display every high school football helmet in the state along with tons of sehawk related items from the past
The view from most seats isn't just good they are down right sweet
There are so many more things to like about this place it truly is a you have to see it for yourself atmosphere
This is just painful for me to read..

That's sounds like how it's supposed to be..

I'm just completely blown away that someone other than myself sees the vision of what a building can do for a culture..

Now, moving forward, progressively, I would like for my city to build a new stadium for the team, and take what you all have, and really get into the science of creating the most intimidating home field advantage as money can buy..

I think it would be an incredible investment opportunity for a billionaire, I think it would become its own must see type of experiences..

I think you all are the leaders of proving this theory right, I think you all should have ideas about making it even better, market those ideas, and capitalize on it..

You all do understand then when you played on Monday nite footbal earlier this year, the country did'nt just tune in to watch your team, we tuned in because of 12th man, the energy that you all can create, we all wanted to live vicariously thru it, how loud and impactful can you really get is what we really want to see...

And speaking from an expert on the matter ( orange bowl ) I think you all need to take it to another level, and really capitolize on the fame.
 

Scottemojo

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The Phins are trying to cater to the box seat crowd, and the average fan is the casualty.
Seattle talks up the 12. retires a number for the 12. The coach begs the 12 to be loud, players try to get the 12 involved, and they let the crowd know that when a false start happens, it was them who did it.

The other stuff all matters, but that is the real reason the fans are loud in Seattle.
 
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Djphinfan

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MontanaHawk05":8jlvewkm said:
I'm going to go in a different direction with this, Djphinfan...I don't think it has much to do with the Clink at all. Our 2008 and 2009 seasons proved that the energy of our home stadium was powerless to help an old, weak, poorly coached team. The Seahawks weren't talented, weren't gelling, weren't winning, and most importantly had no discernible direction. We were getting routinely beat at home, all the time, by quarterbacks who have since turned out to be terrible.

It was just an awful situation, and it came down to talent and coaching. The stadium didn't help at all. A few years of it, and I'm sure our attendance would be dropping like yours is.

The attitude you see on this current Seahawks team, I'd ascribe it more to these things than the Clink:


1. A lot of the intensity that this team has projects from Pete Carroll himself. He's the youngest 60-year-old I've ever seen, leads by example, practices what he preaches, constantly pumped up. For all the rah-rah grief that he gets, I'll bet the players love to score just to see him celebrate on the sidelines.

2. There's accountability in this organization that keeps everyone on their toes. Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider are constantly shuffling the roster and implicitly threatening jobs by doing so. This is a stone-cold front office that has no problem putting people out to pasture. We've had expensive free agents cut (and their cap hits swallowed), first-round picks displaced in favor of off-the-street guys, zero consideration given for cost, seniority, or incumbency. This creates maximum effort and week-to-week awareness from the players.

3. Many of this team's draftees have chips on their shoulders. Our current secondary mostly went under-drafted (vastly so in the case of Richard Sherman), our QB gets dismissed by everyone for being too short, our running back and fullback got tossed aside by their old teams, and in the end you've got a ton of guys who feel that they have something to prove to the league. They play hard to prove it.

4. We've won. I hate to say it, but the best way to get a roster AND a fan base interested is to start winning. Pete Carroll came in and immediately won some games that nobody expected them to win - the San Diego and Chicago games in 2010, the Saints playoff win of course, beating the Giants on the road in 2011 (before they won the Super Bowl), and this year squeaking out wins over some high-flying passing offenses. It got the team believing in itself and its ability to beat the odds.

I appreciate your thoughts sir, and I agree, I'm not crazy to think that it can take a shi&$y team and create miracles, what I am sayin, it's relative, the energy improves the performance of the player, where the starting point of that player begins is what we don't know, what we do know, is the science involved, and the simple philosophy of an engaged fan over a spectator viewership, and when you are close to the action, the players feel like every move they make is on notice, the pure adrenaline of that feeling, and the tangible transition of energy because of that proximity, can lift a players performance imo.
 
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