Trenchbroom wrote:I have a friend who is not convinced, largely because his total passing yards are so low. Try to tell him that because of the phenomenal run game and defense he doesn't HAVE to! Plus, oh yeah...this is his rookie season.

At this point I believe his floor is Hasselbeck. FLOOR. And I think he'll do much more than 'ol Hass in yards when his career is done.

See another stat guy! makes his decisions from the stats. Doesn't care how successful any player is if his "stats" don't make him happy. I swear this type of fan drives me crazy, care nothing about wins and losses, only cares about stats.

Tical21 wrote:I'm not saying I don't fully expect him to be lost at times over the next few years. I don't want it to come across that I'm disappointed in Wilson in any way. I think he has been amazing. I'm on the wagon, no question. But when you give it the only test that matters, the eyeball test, there is a huge difference between watching Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady command an offense and watching Russell Wilson.

I'd agree with this, and I think calling Wilson elite right now is hyperbolic.

However, it should also be acknowledged that all the guys you listed have a ton of NFL experience, and Wilson's rookie season easily rivals each of their initial seasons starting for quality of play.

I don't think Wilson is elite right now, no. But I do think that he's showing us a skillset, an ability to fix mistakes, and a combination of work ethic and leadership right now that has him on a fast track to elite status. What he's done as a rookie QB is outstanding - and some of his games thus far (especially home games) look like what you would see from a top 10 veteran.

Russel Wilson has impressed me this being his rookie year. The coaches have done a fine job in putting him in situations to win games and he is making good use of it. I think he will grow after every game and learn from his mistakes. His ball placement, ball distribution are amazing. He has shown steady improvement in being in the pocket but needs to learn how to read corner blitzes better. He will over time, but when you are scouting the field to throw, you will also need to recognize people running at you basically untouched. When you also escape from the pocket to avoid a rush, you need to run away from the blitz. I am sure he will be an elite as soon as he is given the chance to make changes in the line of scrimmage and keep the opposing defense guessing. I think the game against 49ers and Chicago bears will be a good measuring stick to figure out how far he has come this season. An elite QB in my mind is one who creates situations to win, a time when the coaches don't have to put different situations for the team to win, but for the QB to show and be comfortable with all the situations to win the game based on his skills.

QBR is a tracking "stat" that is very subjective in nature- very similar to the kind of stats PFF puts out. I like PFF- but that's because their stats usually pass the eyeball test. QBR has had a rough debut. Their rankings fail the eyeball test at an alarming rate. QBR is decently accurate on WIlson, but very inaccurate on other QBs.

In fairness to Wilson, his 3 worst games really tanked his stats since he has a low rep count. His season ANYA score is right around the league average. Consider though that five times this year Wilson posted an ANYA over 8, which is an elite performance. And in Wilson's last five games, his ANYA score has been one of the best in the league- and that's even counting the dropfest in SF. If not for that six drop game, Wilson would likely be the NFL's most efficient QB the last five weeks, which is saying a lot.

Wilson has become an elite QB in recent weeks. His seasonal stats might not reflect that because of a few ugly/unlucky games early, but as of late he's been on a real tear, and it doesn't feel like a fluke either.

SacHawk2.0 wrote:

kf3339 wrote: But to be really Elite he needs to be able to put the team on his back when every thing is breaking down and will the team to victory. That means the defense, running game and special teams not working.

Dude, RW has two 4th quarter comeback victories already in his career, and it would have been three if the Defense didn't lay an egg at the end of the Detroit game.

If that's not putting the team on your back I don't know what it.

It's comments like yours that have made me cut back dramatically on making posts in this forum. There is nothing in my comments that should make you feel that mentioning a few quarters justifies labeling any QB as "Elite".

Perhaps you should look up the work "elite" and place the term in the context of other QB's now or in history that have earned the term based on a stronger history than 2 quarters of play. That would be a good place to start.

As I stated, Wilson is doing very well for his first year, and do hope he continues to improve this year and going forward in his career.

Hasselbeck wrote:we're 32nd overall in passing, even the Chiefs and Jaguars have done more in that department, you can cite whatever stat you want to make Wilson an elite QB but right now he's not.

The "hanging from his groin" line was awesome, but as long as you continue to equate total yardage with passing excellence, we're going to disagree.

Brady, Rogers, Manning have NEVER had pick 6's OR fumbles returned for TD's.

Its amazing, that anything negative the RW endures, all VERY typical of even elite veteran situations, keep the Wilson doubt alive. RW has to perfect, every play, to even win over this fanbase.

The best is Hasselbeck, who's namesake wouldn't have ever started past game 3, using his same evaluation of Wilson.

Its all fascinating.

Elite status is earned based on multiple seasons IMO. I will say that RW has all the makings of an elite QB though-leadership ability, intelligence, dedication, maturity, poise, an improving pocket presence, ability to keep plays alive, and he lives football.

Consistency over several seasons will solidify his spot. And I don't doubt he'll get there.

I don't know how anyone can say he's NOT elite at Home. 11 TD's, 0 picks and 5 wins. What more can anyone want. The idea that a QB MUST pass for 250-300 yards or he's somhow inferrior is laughable. Don't you think that if Luck had an elite Defense and a pulverizing running attack that he would use it more often? Of course, the fact that for 2 straight weeks the offense have killed the last 5 and 7 minutes of the game respectively on offense is dominant and is unbelieable. If you can effectively close out the game by pounding the ball, why on earth would you pass more than a handful of times in the 4th quarter.

if you look at a number of games over the weekend you'll see that the winning QB in alot had less passing yards than the losing team. Look at Dalton 4 TD's 190 yards, while Eli had 225ish in the Bengals Blowout. The Bucs Freeman had 210 yards and Rivers had 300+. Locker and the Titans beat down the Dolphins and only have 125 yards 2 TD's, Tannehill 225ish yards and 0 TD's. So why are people so concerned with passing yards I ask myself.

Ruminator wrote:My two cents is: In order for this team to become legitimately dangerous in the playoffs, the FO needs to be cognizant of the fact a bolstered OL is a much greater need than an improved WR corp.

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Better OL = HOF capability for RW too.

kf3339 wrote:

SacHawk2.0 wrote:

kf3339 wrote: But to be really Elite he needs to be able to put the team on his back when every thing is breaking down and will the team to victory. That means the defense, running game and special teams not working.

Dude, RW has two 4th quarter comeback victories already in his career, and it would have been three if the Defense didn't lay an egg at the end of the Detroit game.

If that's not putting the team on your back I don't know what it.

It's comments like yours that have made me cut back dramatically on making posts in this forum. There is nothing in my comments that should make you feel that mentioning a few quarters justifies labeling any QB as "Elite".

Perhaps you should look up the work "elite" and place the term in the context of other QB's now or in history that have earned the term based on a stronger history than 2 quarters of play. That would be a good place to start.

As I stated, Wilson is doing very well for his first year, and do hope he continues to improve this year and going forward in his career.

Comments like mine? What did I say that was so offensive? All I pointed out was that there were times that RW did in fact put this team on his back.

The thing is about RW and the his level of play is that no matter how well he plays it means very little until he proves he can keep doing it time and time again. That being the case it's far too soon to anoint him any title other than a rookie playing very well at this stage of his career.

But I believe he will get there.

Nothing silent about it. Russel Wilson is making a strong case as a serious up and comer. We have us a top ten QB folks.

Here's a cool stat that I came across today that provides a least some credence to Kearly's contention of Russell being "elite" (or at least that he's headed that way). A good measure of an elite QB is what he does in the clutch. Well check out where his 4th Quarter QB Rating ranks. Take this FWIW ...

4th Quarter QB Rating (Top NFL QB's) ...

1] Jay Cutler 135.0
2] Peyton Manning 121.8
3] Aaron Rodgers 107.7
4] Matthew Stafford 103.8
5] Sam Bradford 97.4
6] Russell Wilson 96.2
7] Kevin Kolb 96.0
8] Ben Roethlisberger 95.9
9] Andy Dalton 94.0
10] Tom Brady 92.2

Some of the names on that list are admittedly a bit dubious ... but for the most part, pretty solid list.

JSeahawks wrote:As ridiculous as it sounds I can imagine Wilson in the Hall of Fame one day.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I can imagine myself having sex with J-Lo. (If you're gonna dream, might as well go for it!)

LymonHawk wrote:

JSeahawks wrote:As ridiculous as it sounds I can imagine Wilson in the Hall of Fame one day.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I can imagine myself having sex with J-Lo. (If you're gonna dream, might as well go for it!)

With or without your gothic black leather hood on?

LymonHawk wrote:

JSeahawks wrote:As ridiculous as it sounds I can imagine Wilson in the Hall of Fame one day.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I can imagine myself having sex with J-Lo. (If you're gonna dream, might as well go for it!)

Do they make time-machines or doses of cialis in the necessary milligrams?

Until RW goes 28/28, 410, 4 TD's, and no Int's, SOME will extrapolate things like fumbles (Brady and Manning do those) into reasons why not. I know from my eyes, that dudes a baller and special in the making. When he fumbled Sunday, I cared more about RW's detractors than the outcome.

Its just bazaar, even for a loon like me.

seahawks08 wrote:Russel Wilson has impressed me this being his rookie year. The coaches have done a fine job in putting him in situations to win games and he is making good use of it. I think he will grow after every game and learn from his mistakes. His ball placement, ball distribution are amazing. He has shown steady improvement in being in the pocket but needs to learn how to read corner blitzes better. He will over time, but when you are scouting the field to throw, you will also need to recognize people running at you basically untouched. When you also escape from the pocket to avoid a rush, you need to run away from the blitz. I am sure he will be an elite as soon as he is given the chance to make changes in the line of scrimmage and keep the opposing defense guessing. I think the game against 49ers and Chicago bears will be a good measuring stick to figure out how far he has come this season. An elite QB in my mind is one who creates situations to win, a time when the coaches don't have to put different situations for the team to win, but for the QB to show and be comfortable with all the situations to win the game based on his skills.

I think the real test on the Chi game is going to be on the staff and not RW. If I was in that spot I know what needs to be done for Chi. Limit the pass. Play tough D and win field position. This is game needs to be a boring conservative old school game for the Hawks to come out on top. I would hope we do a lot of run, run, pass, type plays. As long we keep the score with in 2 possessions, we grind it out as much as possible. The caveat is to look for the single coverage play action deep ball.

Tech Worlds wrote:

LymonHawk wrote:

JSeahawks wrote:As ridiculous as it sounds I can imagine Wilson in the Hall of Fame one day.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I can imagine myself having sex with J-Lo. (If you're gonna dream, might as well go for it!)

With or without your gothic black leather hood on?

Of course the gothic black leather hood!.....I never leave home without it.

pehawk wrote:

LymonHawk wrote:

JSeahawks wrote:As ridiculous as it sounds I can imagine Wilson in the Hall of Fame one day.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I can imagine myself having sex with J-Lo. (If you're gonna dream, might as well go for it!)

Do they make time-machines or doses of cialis in the necessary milligrams?

Of all the people on this board, YOU should know the answer to that one. (Or did you already forget our night in Cheney?)

TLD0550 wrote:Funny how week 10 this guy is the QBOTF , when just 3 weeks ago or so I believe .net was up in arms and calling for Flynn......who Is Flynn anyways does he play for us? GO HAWKS

Since when did .NET=6 people?

LymonHawk wrote:
As ridiculous as it sounds, I can imagine myself having sex

Of all the people on this board, YOU should know the answer to that one. (Or did you already forget our night in Cheney?)

You said my face was what kept you from "rising to attention"? You made me feel cheap, and ugly for nothing?

Ouch.

JSeahawks wrote:He's no Marcus Mariota, but he'll do for now.



As ridiculous as it sounds I can imagine Wilson in the Hall of Fame one day.

or Dan McGwuire for that matter

The Radish wrote:

Trenchbroom wrote:I have a friend who is not convinced, largely because his total passing yards are so low. Try to tell him that because of the phenomenal run game and defense he doesn't HAVE to! Plus, oh yeah...this is his rookie season.

At this point I believe his floor is Hasselbeck. FLOOR. And I think he'll do much more than 'ol Hass in yards when his career is done.

See another stat guy! makes his decisions from the stats. Doesn't care how successful any player is if his "stats" don't make him happy. I swear this type of fan drives me crazy, care nothing about wins and losses, only cares about stats.

It's the Fantansy Football Fan pardigm Les. Only stats matter to these sorts.

XxxZagnutxxX wrote:

The Radish wrote:

Trenchbroom wrote:I have a friend who is not convinced, largely because his total passing yards are so low. Try to tell him that because of the phenomenal run game and defense he doesn't HAVE to! Plus, oh yeah...this is his rookie season.

At this point I believe his floor is Hasselbeck. FLOOR. And I think he'll do much more than 'ol Hass in yards when his career is done.

See another stat guy! makes his decisions from the stats. Doesn't care how successful any player is if his "stats" don't make him happy. I swear this type of fan drives me crazy, care nothing about wins and losses, only cares about stats.

It's the Fantansy Football Fan pardigm Les. Only stats matter to these sorts.

Yeah, and after we made a forum just for them they still want to share their knowledge with people who don't really care.