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 Post subject: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Excuse me for I am not of that era, but from what I understood Mirer had a fairly decent rookie campaign, but then came back the next year and pooped the bed. Does anyone here remember or know why this happened? Was it like a lack of discipline? Or was it just a random collapse? I always wonder if the same thing is possible with Russell that happened to Cam Newton and Mirer.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:27 pm 
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I don't see any Mirer like qualities or situations in Wilson

But it does raise an interesting question/theory/space-time continuum


Last edited by Shaz on Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:28 pm 
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Teams figured out his limitations. In 1993, the team actually started out 5-5, then lost five of their last six, I think it tooks teams less than a season to figure him out. He made a lot of plays outside the pocket early on, he wasn't a polished passer at all, similar to Cam Newton, he made his name at Notre Dame with his legs. Once teams forced him to his left and kept him in the pocket and made him beat them with his arm, he struggled. Once he lost his confidence, he totally lost it. I don't think he had the football IQ to really excel in the NFL, he came from essentially an option offense at Notre Dame. It was a lot of different factors at play, but it should be considered when comparing Mirer and Newton to Wilson, that Mirer and Newton came from option offenses, Wilson did not.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:32 pm 
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With Russell, I don't get that "cross your fingers" Mirer anxiety


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:39 pm 
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I place the majority of the blame on Larry Keenan. He was Mirer's QB coach and did essentially nothing Rick's rookie year. Then he got promoted to OC the next year and just overcoached him. Rick was a freelancer and was much better when he could just do his thing. He basically called his own plays and winged it as a rookie. His early success got his QB coach a promotion and he was pretty strict about how he wanted this, that, and the other done. Rick started getting pounded and lost his confidence. It's about as simple as that.

Any of you who watched Jim Everett saw something similar. He had that playoff game against SF where they just beat him into submission and the guy was just never the same. Mirer had the same thing happen. He just played for a crappy team with crappy owners, crappy coaches, no blocking, etc. and lost his confidence and that was that.

I think in this day and age we would have found that he had taken way too many hits and he would have been handled differently. A more modern comparison is David Carr. He just got pounded to the point where all of the skill he hinted at early just disappeared. He had zero help and got beaten into submission.

Rick Mirer was a talented guy. He tried hard. He wasn't given any sort of supporting cast and ownership absolutely sucked. They didn't go and surround him with good coaches. I think with Holmgren or Carroll he would have had a pretty successful career, but once you lose "it" then "it" never comes back.

I remember a pitcher named Steve Trout that used to play for the M's. One day he woke up and literally couldn't remember how to pitch anymore. He went from one of the better relievers in baseball to the point where he was actually throwing balls 10 feet over the catcher's head. It got in his head and it is a fairly well known phenomenon that sports psychologists deal with. It just happens, even to really great talents and its unfortunate.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:45 pm 
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Shoot, I've been a Seahawks fan since long before Mirer was drafted, but looking him up on Wikipedia, was mildly surprised to see he bounced around signing contracts to play for a total of 7 teams (including Seahawks) for a total of 12 seasons before finally hanging it up for good.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:48 pm 
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Good info guys, I think that about sums it up with "getting figured out". Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:51 pm 
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I remember Rick he was someone I had high hopes for when I was a kid.

From what I've read and heard about him in his rookie season the Seahawks only ran basically six plays on offense so when playbook expanded it hurt him as someone said before he was better just doing his own thing and not being over coached.

The other thing I remember was that he didn't see very well to his left side once teams learned that they would pressure him and game plan to force him to throw over to his left hand side of the field which also caused him problems.

In the early 2000's he got some starts with the Raiders I believe Jeff George got hurt and Rick got to play, he would have a decent game here or there he had talent but lost confidence, thankfully for the Seahawks they were able to get a first round pick for him which I believe became Shawn Springs.

During his ROY season he did not show the talent nor leadership that Wilson has for us this year in case you are worried about Russell stepping backwards as his career progresses.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:36 am 
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SuperFreak wrote:
I remember Rick he was someone I had high hopes for when I was a kid.

From what I've read and heard about him in his rookie season the Seahawks only ran basically six plays on offense so when playbook expanded it hurt him as someone said before he was better just doing his own thing and not being over coached.

The other thing I remember was that he didn't see very well to his left side once teams learned that they would pressure him and game plan to force him to throw over to his left hand side of the field which also caused him problems.

In the early 2000's he got some starts with the Raiders I believe Jeff George got hurt and Rick got to play, he would have a decent game here or there he had talent but lost confidence, thankfully for the Seahawks they were able to get a first round pick for him which I believe became Shawn Springs.

During his ROY season he did not show the talent nor leadership that Wilson has for us this year in case you are worried about Russell stepping backwards as his career progresses.


All good points Superfreak. I'll just try to add a couple o' things if you don't mind.

1- I had totally forgotten about that vision thing. Valid point. I can remember him losing contacts during games and fighting to get them back in and always getting new ones and dealing with that mess now that you've reminded me of it.

2- He was parlayed into a pick to the Bears for him and a mid-late rounder. I believe it gave us a high pick and allowed us to select Springs and Jones in that draft, so I don't think we swapped picks or anything. I think we gave Rick and a conditional pick for the Bears pick and then there might have been another deal to get the picks in place to work that draft perfectly.

3- Rick didn't show what Russell Wilson has in a lot of regards, but over the years as I've learned more and really studied leadership and been in some pretty high leadership positions, I am starting to take the viewpoint that if Rick had the leadership this team has, he wouldn't have been nearly as bad. Sure he probably wouldn't have been a hall of famer, but I think he could have been a Pro Bowl QB. He seemed better in his rookie year than Matt Hass did in his first year as a starter here. Subsequent coaches and the Paul Allen "team" would have taken care of him, and they wouldn't have rushed him out on the field if he wasn't totally ready. I think Rick was sort of a lazy playbook guy (or maybe they were drawing up the infamous napkin plays), and they would have made sure he worked his butt off, and I think with the right coaches he would have. He wasn't a flake or anything. He had just always gotten by on natural talent and done quite well. He ultimately was a good guy though and I can't recall him saying anything bad about anybody, and in that regard I feel like he brought something good to this organization, even if it was just for that rookie year. He brought us some hope for the future and he did it with class and flair with his Jim Zorn like free-wheeler style. It was refreshing and fun to watch.

I'll never forget him getting wrapped up and throwing left handed passes to the RB's just to make sure he didn't go down. Mirer was a gutsy guy. I think he's one of those QB's that could have played safety or slot receiver because he was a tough dude and a really good athlete. He just got the crap knocked out of him. The fact that he stuck around so long though is a testament to the fact that he was a good teammate and gave it an effort. He probably knew as much as anybody else that things were off, and tried to play through it and help whatever team he was on. It was probably a real blow to his ego, but he did it and did it with a smile on his face. I've seen so many highly touted QB's who didn't get their way and just walked away to broadcast or start a "financial services firm" in a year or two because they couldn't handle the awful idea of being somebody else's backup and helping a younger QB out. He sort of reminds me of Ty Detmer. Ty took an awful beating in college (dislocating both shoulders in a bowl game against Texas A&M), but stayed around forever as a backup and a great teammate that coaches and other players loved for his willingness to do whatever was asked of him.

I'll say this as my wrap-up on Mirer. I never once saw him beg out of a game. I can't say that for a few other guys. I never once saw him overexaggerate an injury, in fact, I saw him get busted up pretty darn bad and getting taped up and getting back out there on an ankle that didn't bend, etc. He signified hope to me for the future of the franchise, and his trade brought something we desperately needed, and that brought more hope. Then Holmgren came along and things got steadily better. I would have loved to see Mirer brought along by Holmgren. At the very least I think he would have been a really solid #2 behind Hass or maybe he'd have finally gotten some QB coaching and used his athletic ability to become a guy like Hass. He had that kind of ability and seemed to genuinely love the game like Matt did. This thread has brought back some good memories (I am blocking out the bad ones!). ;) Viva la Rick.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:22 am 
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SharkHawk wrote:

All good points Superfreak. I'll just try to add a couple o' things if you don't mind.

1- I had totally forgotten about that vision thing. Valid point. I can remember him losing contacts during games and fighting to get them back in and always getting new ones and dealing with that mess now that you've reminded me of it.

2- He was parlayed into a pick to the Bears for him and a mid-late rounder. I believe it gave us a high pick and allowed us to select Springs and Jones in that draft, so I don't think we swapped picks or anything. I think we gave Rick and a conditional pick for the Bears pick and then there might have been another deal to get the picks in place to work that draft perfectly.

3- Rick didn't show what Russell Wilson has in a lot of regards, but over the years as I've learned more and really studied leadership and been in some pretty high leadership positions, I am starting to take the viewpoint that if Rick had the leadership this team has, he wouldn't have been nearly as bad. Sure he probably wouldn't have been a hall of famer, but I think he could have been a Pro Bowl QB. He seemed better in his rookie year than Matt Hass did in his first year as a starter here. Subsequent coaches and the Paul Allen "team" would have taken care of him, and they wouldn't have rushed him out on the field if he wasn't totally ready. I think Rick was sort of a lazy playbook guy (or maybe they were drawing up the infamous napkin plays), and they would have made sure he worked his butt off, and I think with the right coaches he would have. He wasn't a flake or anything. He had just always gotten by on natural talent and done quite well. He ultimately was a good guy though and I can't recall him saying anything bad about anybody, and in that regard I feel like he brought something good to this organization, even if it was just for that rookie year. He brought us some hope for the future and he did it with class and flair with his Jim Zorn like free-wheeler style. It was refreshing and fun to watch.

I'll never forget him getting wrapped up and throwing left handed passes to the RB's just to make sure he didn't go down. Mirer was a gutsy guy. I think he's one of those QB's that could have played safety or slot receiver because he was a tough dude and a really good athlete. He just got the crap knocked out of him. The fact that he stuck around so long though is a testament to the fact that he was a good teammate and gave it an effort. He probably knew as much as anybody else that things were off, and tried to play through it and help whatever team he was on. It was probably a real blow to his ego, but he did it and did it with a smile on his face. I've seen so many highly touted QB's who didn't get their way and just walked away to broadcast or start a "financial services firm" in a year or two because they couldn't handle the awful idea of being somebody else's backup and helping a younger QB out. He sort of reminds me of Ty Detmer. Ty took an awful beating in college (dislocating both shoulders in a bowl game against Texas A&M), but stayed around forever as a backup and a great teammate that coaches and other players loved for his willingness to do whatever was asked of him.

I'll say this as my wrap-up on Mirer. I never once saw him beg out of a game. I can't say that for a few other guys. I never once saw him overexaggerate an injury, in fact, I saw him get busted up pretty darn bad and getting taped up and getting back out there on an ankle that didn't bend, etc. He signified hope to me for the future of the franchise, and his trade brought something we desperately needed, and that brought more hope. Then Holmgren came along and things got steadily better. I would have loved to see Mirer brought along by Holmgren. At the very least I think he would have been a really solid #2 behind Hass or maybe he'd have finally gotten some QB coaching and used his athletic ability to become a guy like Hass. He had that kind of ability and seemed to genuinely love the game like Matt did. This thread has brought back some good memories (I am blocking out the bad ones!). ;) Viva la Rick.



Nice memory on that Shark :from his wiki page

" On February 18, 1997 Mirer was traded with a 4th round pick in the 1997 NFL draft to the Chicago Bears for their 1st round draft pick, later packaged in a trade to the Atlanta Falcons to move up to 3rd overall that year to select Shawn Springs. "

I guess in my mind I just linked up Mirer for Springs and forgot about the 4th rounder going back to the Bears and that we moved up to get Springs.

I was at an age when the Seahawks drafted him I was buying and trading a lot of football cards I had tons of Mirer rookie cards and always followed him though his career as a player I hoped to see do well even if he wasn't a Seahawk any longer.

I agree about him being a tough player, because I liked him as a player when he was here I followed him closely the times when he would get into a game he could take a beating and keep on going he had a lot of heart. I also agree in a different era he could have been a pretty good QB if he had the correct support from his coaching staff.

Mirer was a national semifinalist in the NFL Punt, Pass & Kick as an 8-year-old in 1980, that speaks well to what you were saying about him playing slot or safety he was competitor as a football player and a good athlete.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:51 am 
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He was the Andy Dalton of his time. He had success with a very toned down playbook in year one, but couldn't grow fast enough and was exposed in year two. Although to be fair to Dalton, he's grown a lot more in his second year than Mirer did.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:38 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:41 pm 
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Beating the Patriots that year was the worst thing that happened to the Seahawks in the 90's. Could have had Drew Bledsoe, wound up with Mirer.

Wilson already shows a lot more than Mirer ever did - especially when it comes to accuracy and protecting the football.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:47 pm 
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Ouch. man he was bad. The football gods owe us a Probowl QB.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:58 pm 
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Chukarhawk wrote:
Ouch. man he was bad. The football gods owe us a Probowl QB.



Knock on wood for the Kid.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:02 pm 
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Wait... what am i talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:17 pm 
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I know, they owe us another one that also gets the MVP at least once, preferably in the superbowl

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:23 pm 
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KitsapHawk wrote:
Excuse me for I am not of that era, but from what I understood Mirer had a fairly decent rookie campaign, but then came back the next year and pooped the bed. Does anyone here remember or know why this happened? Was it like a lack of discipline? Or was it just a random collapse? I always wonder if the same thing is possible with Russell that happened to Cam Newton and Mirer.


No worries ......

Rick Mirer was not able to learn and adapt. Once the league figured him out, his fortunes crashed.

Since the skills of learning and adapting is what Russell Wilson's growth is all about, his future looks bright well beyond his rookie year. :th2thumbs:


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:29 pm 
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WHY ?? even post this reference ??
:141847_bnono: :229031_shrug: :141847_bnono:

....next, you're gonna say it has something to do with the number 3 ??

:death2:

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Mirer
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:12 pm 
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Rick Mirer was the dump off specialist, at the time, we had a fairly good running game and frankly we all saw 6-10 as a massive improvement over 2-14.

It didn't take long for the Mirer era to end once Erickson took over. I think Behring pressured him into playing Mirer while Friesz was riding the pine, but knew Erickson ball. Once Friesz came in, you could see the offense getting a lot better, then Moon came in and actually lit it up. Holmy ended that.

Mirer was a PUSS for the record. Once Bledsoe was drafted, I knew that dip Behring would take Mirer, who had the luxury of dumping off to Bettis at ND and padding his stats. I DREADED that pick. I won't list the names that came after him.

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