Hmm....ROY much?

What is at home? Must be damn near perfect.

And what are Golden Tate and Sidney Rice's QB ratings?

Not good enough. Put in Flynn.

Zebulon Dak wrote:Not good enough. Put in Flynn.

Flynn's too tall. He'll never be successful in our offense.

131.1 passer rating today, best rated passer at home in the NFL...

he has to be in the conversation for OROY but given the east coast bias....

JSeahawks wrote:

Zebulon Dak wrote:Not good enough. Put in Flynn.

Flynn's too tall. He'll never be successful in our offense.

I see what you did there.

If he can bring up those stats on the road he may get some love. Otherwise, no matter the logic, Luck will be ROY even if he doesn't make the play-offs which I don't mind. Wilson seems to do better with a chip on his shoulder.

Zebulon Dak wrote:Not good enough. Put in Flynn.

He still doesn't throw for many yards. Evidently that's all the national media looks at. Russell Wilson leads all rookies in TD passes by a good margin now that Luck, Tannehill didn't thrown any this week.

Outside of a few plays where he looked like a rookie in the first half, Russell ran the offense like a veteran today. Awards or not, he will be a force in the NFL for years to come.

Throwing for 400 yards a game doesn't matter if you don't get the win. I'll take his 188 yards, two touchdowns and a win any day of the week. And so will Pete Carroll and the rest of the team.

It's a very healthy passer rating for the young rook. Needless to say Wilson is very consistent and the traditional passer rating shows this trend as opposed to the QBR which is all over the place.
His QBR of 45.8 yesterday means Wilson played worse than an average QB which was definitely not the case. ESPN can pull a random number out of their derriere and y'all be overanalyzing it as fact. Truth is QBR is not much of a tool when one game seems to be measuring in inches and the next game measuring in feet--very inconsistent.

RW Eyeball test: Besides being too aggressive and careless with the ball on a few plays he did nothing to lose the game and his throws were on the money. The deep ball threat and the ability to gain yards when plays break down is a hella much more important the sacks he took. So is the intelligence to deftly pitch to Lynch as the pocket caved in for a huge gain. Thankfully the NFL doesn't use ESPN's stupid QBR!

Wilson looks fantastic and that's all I care about. Do we finally have an NFL-caliber starting QB??? Sure looks like it, and that is awesome. I'll take it.

As to Andrew Luck winning rookie of the year, he deserves it. The Colts were the worst team in the NFL last season, added Andrew Luck, and are now one of the best in the AFC. I think you could argue they're in the Top 3. That kid has turned that team around, and he's on another level than Wilson. I understand the homerism with Wilson, but come on. Go watch any of the last 3-4 Colts games and you're going to immediately see the difference. Luck is definitely living up to the hype.

It's amazing he is able to produce so well with WRs who can't get open, Bevell's terrible play calling, and an oline that can't block!!

HansGruber wrote:Wilson looks fantastic and that's all I care about. Do we finally have an NFL-caliber starting QB??? Sure looks like it, and that is awesome. I'll take it.

As to Andrew Luck winning rookie of the year, he deserves it. The Colts were the worst team in the NFL last season, added Andrew Luck, and are now one of the best in the AFC. I think you could argue they're in the Top 3. That kid has turned that team around, and he's on another level than Wilson. I understand the homerism with Wilson, but come on. Go watch any of the last 3-4 Colts games and you're going to immediately see the difference. Luck is definitely living up to the hype.

I get what you're saying about Luck, and I think he'd be a deserving ROY barring a meltdown, but the numbers just don't stack up. He has 10 TDs and 9 INTs on the year, completion % isn't as good as Wilson's and is passer rating is way down there.

If all you look at is ESPNs obviously subjective and biased QBR, then yeah, he's running away with the ROY prize. Looking deeper, and i'd say Wilson is firmly in the race.

peachesenregalia wrote:I get what you're saying about Luck, and I think he'd be a deserving ROY barring a meltdown, but the numbers just don't stack up. He has 10 TDs and 9 INTs on the year, completion % isn't as good as Wilson's and is passer rating is way down there.

If all you look at is ESPNs obviously subjective and biased QBR, then yeah, he's running away with the ROY prize. Looking deeper, and i'd say Wilson is firmly in the race.

Be careful when looking at stats. It's easy to confuse those numbers with what actually happens in-game. I've been watching the Colts for about 5-6 weeks now, every game, just to get an idea of how good Luck really is (out of curiosity). Those stats don't even begin to tell the story.

Andrew Luck is literally carrying that team right now. You can see it on the field. The lack of TDs and the INTs are more of an indicator of how poor his teammates are playing. For all the talk about Seattle's drops and "bad" WR play, the Colts have actually been much worse. They look terrible, in fact. Most of those INTs have been on his WRs, the kid doesn't make many bad throws. And quite a few of those TDs have been Luck running it in, or making really accurate throws into tight coverage. His WRs just don't seem to get separation, but he's still putting the ball right where it needs to be and creating yards where there should have been a loss.

One thing that has really really impressed me about Andrew Luck is that he has been adapting to his WRs. You'll see plays where a WR obviously runs a wrong route, Luck looks to where the WR should be, then adjusts and sees the WR somewhere else, and fires a pass if the WR is open. He's not only making reads, he's reading ahead of coverage, and finding guys all over the field, throwing receivers open, etc.

Andrew Luck is the real deal. It bums me out, because the Colts obviously threw away the season ("cheated") to get him in the draft, and I don't think that's right. But that doesn't say anything about Luck himself, the player. Andrew Luck is going to win a lot of games in Indy. He might even be better than Peyton.

Anyone who would call Wilson a better player than Luck hasn't been watching both of them play. It'd be a shame if Wilson got the OROY over Luck. Luck has earned it.

Seahawk Sailor wrote:Throwing for 400 yards a game doesn't matter if you don't get the win. I'll take his 188 yards, two touchdowns and a win any day of the week. And so will Pete Carroll and the rest of the team.

Agreed, I mean look at the Falcons yesterday, pass for around 380 yards and lose.

HansGruber wrote:

peachesenregalia wrote:I get what you're saying about Luck, and I think he'd be a deserving ROY barring a meltdown, but the numbers just don't stack up. He has 10 TDs and 9 INTs on the year, completion % isn't as good as Wilson's and is passer rating is way down there.

If all you look at is ESPNs obviously subjective and biased QBR, then yeah, he's running away with the ROY prize. Looking deeper, and i'd say Wilson is firmly in the race.

Be careful when looking at stats. It's easy to confuse those numbers with what actually happens in-game. I've been watching the Colts for about 5-6 weeks now, every game, just to get an idea of how good Luck really is (out of curiosity). Those stats don't even begin to tell the story.

Andrew Luck is literally carrying that team right now. You can see it on the field. The lack of TDs and the INTs are more of an indicator of how poor his teammates are playing. For all the talk about Seattle's drops and "bad" WR play, the Colts have actually been much worse. They look terrible, in fact. Most of those INTs have been on his WRs, the kid doesn't make many bad throws. And quite a few of those TDs have been Luck running it in, or making really accurate throws into tight coverage. His WRs just don't seem to get separation, but he's still putting the ball right where it needs to be and creating yards where there should have been a loss.

One thing that has really really impressed me about Andrew Luck is that he has been adapting to his WRs. You'll see plays where a WR obviously runs a wrong route, Luck looks to where the WR should be, then adjusts and sees the WR somewhere else, and fires a pass if the WR is open. He's not only making reads, he's reading ahead of coverage, and finding guys all over the field, throwing receivers open, etc.

Andrew Luck is the real deal. It bums me out, because the Colts obviously threw away the season ("cheated") to get him in the draft, and I don't think that's right. But that doesn't say anything about Luck himself, the player. Andrew Luck is going to win a lot of games in Indy. He might even be better than Peyton.

Anyone who would call Wilson a better player than Luck hasn't been watching both of them play. It'd be a shame if Wilson got the OROY over Luck. Luck has earned it.

Well, why don't you just go and god damn live in Indiana then?

Wilson's 15 touchdown passes are not only the most by a rookie QB this season, and that includes Andrew Luck and RG3, but he has also done it in the fewest throws of any rookie QB.

peachesenregalia wrote:

HansGruber wrote:

peachesenregalia wrote:I get what you're saying about Luck, and I think he'd be a deserving ROY barring a meltdown, but the numbers just don't stack up. He has 10 TDs and 9 INTs on the year, completion % isn't as good as Wilson's and is passer rating is way down there.

If all you look at is ESPNs obviously subjective and biased QBR, then yeah, he's running away with the ROY prize. Looking deeper, and i'd say Wilson is firmly in the race.

Be careful when looking at stats. It's easy to confuse those numbers with what actually happens in-game. I've been watching the Colts for about 5-6 weeks now, every game, just to get an idea of how good Luck really is (out of curiosity). Those stats don't even begin to tell the story.

Andrew Luck is literally carrying that team right now. You can see it on the field. The lack of TDs and the INTs are more of an indicator of how poor his teammates are playing. For all the talk about Seattle's drops and "bad" WR play, the Colts have actually been much worse. They look terrible, in fact. Most of those INTs have been on his WRs, the kid doesn't make many bad throws. And quite a few of those TDs have been Luck running it in, or making really accurate throws into tight coverage. His WRs just don't seem to get separation, but he's still putting the ball right where it needs to be and creating yards where there should have been a loss.

One thing that has really really impressed me about Andrew Luck is that he has been adapting to his WRs. You'll see plays where a WR obviously runs a wrong route, Luck looks to where the WR should be, then adjusts and sees the WR somewhere else, and fires a pass if the WR is open. He's not only making reads, he's reading ahead of coverage, and finding guys all over the field, throwing receivers open, etc.

Andrew Luck is the real deal. It bums me out, because the Colts obviously threw away the season ("cheated") to get him in the draft, and I don't think that's right. But that doesn't say anything about Luck himself, the player. Andrew Luck is going to win a lot of games in Indy. He might even be better than Peyton.

Anyone who would call Wilson a better player than Luck hasn't been watching both of them play. It'd be a shame if Wilson got the OROY over Luck. Luck has earned it.

Well, why don't you just go and god damn live in Indiana then?

It doesn't matter. He isn't on any sandwich commercials. We would have to win out and he throw for five hundred yards a game. The e seats are what they are and the talk is all Luck and 3.

HansGruber wrote:Be careful when looking at stats. It's easy to confuse those numbers with what actually happens in-game. I've been watching the Colts for about 5-6 weeks now, every game, just to get an idea of how good Luck really is (out of curiosity). Those stats don't even begin to tell the story.

Andrew Luck is literally carrying that team right now. You can see it on the field. The lack of TDs and the INTs are more of an indicator of how poor his teammates are playing. For all the talk about Seattle's drops and "bad" WR play, the Colts have actually been much worse. They look terrible, in fact. Most of those INTs have been on his WRs, the kid doesn't make many bad throws. And quite a few of those TDs have been Luck running it in, or making really accurate throws into tight coverage. His WRs just don't seem to get separation, but he's still putting the ball right where it needs to be and creating yards where there should have been a loss.

One thing that has really really impressed me about Andrew Luck is that he has been adapting to his WRs. You'll see plays where a WR obviously runs a wrong route, Luck looks to where the WR should be, then adjusts and sees the WR somewhere else, and fires a pass if the WR is open. He's not only making reads, he's reading ahead of coverage, and finding guys all over the field, throwing receivers open, etc.

Andrew Luck is the real deal. It bums me out, because the Colts obviously threw away the season ("cheated") to get him in the draft, and I don't think that's right. But that doesn't say anything about Luck himself, the player. Andrew Luck is going to win a lot of games in Indy. He might even be better than Peyton.

Anyone who would call Wilson a better player than Luck hasn't been watching both of them play. It'd be a shame if Wilson got the OROY over Luck. Luck has earned it.

I agree with this. Indy is going to be very happy with Luck over the next 15 years.

HansGruber wrote:Wilson looks fantastic and that's all I care about. Do we finally have an NFL-caliber starting QB??? Sure looks like it, and that is awesome. I'll take it.

As to Andrew Luck winning rookie of the year, he deserves it. The Colts were the worst team in the NFL last season, added Andrew Luck, and are now one of the best in the AFC. I think you could argue they're in the Top 3. That kid has turned that team around, and he's on another level than Wilson. I understand the homerism with Wilson, but come on. Go watch any of the last 3-4 Colts games and you're going to immediately see the difference. Luck is definitely living up to the hype.

I agree that Luck is doing well but let's not go crazy. I don't see how anyone could say Luck is playing at a significantly higher level than Wilson. The Jags game wasn't spectacular. He had 227 yards and an INT (should have had 2 if not for a Jaguar Penalty) no TD's. Meanwhile Russel's thrown 7-1 TD/ INT in the last 3 games. Luck has 3-2 TD/INT ratio over that same time.

Andrew Luck is completing 57.5% of his passes this year (before I hear, he's got no one to throw too. Reggie Wayne is much more prolific than any WR Seattle has. Wayne accounts for roughly 1/3 of Luck's completions on the year and over 35% of all of Luck's yards. That's significant).
Wilson is @ 62.1%- Advantage (significant) WILSON

Luck is @ 7.3 YPA, Wilson @ 7.2 YPA. Advantage Luck.

Luck has 9 picks in 9 games, Wilson has 8 picks in 10 games, so it'd appear that Wilson has the advantage. However if you convert the picks into attempts. Luck has 1 pick every 40.22 passes. Wilson has 1 pick every 31.63 pass attempts. However if you take the last 3 games (most signifcant sample set IMO ) Luck has 2 picks (1 for every 56 passes). Wilson has 1 pick in 78 pass attempts. Advantage= Draw

Luck has 10 TD passes in 362 attempts or he throws a TD pass every 36.2 pass attempts. Wilson has 15 TD's in 253 attempts or 1 TD pass every 16.87 attempts. Advantage- (significant) Wilson.

So my point is the 2 are both playing very well. However, Wilson is more efficient in terms of completion % and is making the most of his passing attempts and is throwing alot of TD's.

The only real significant advantage for Luck is he's got more total passing yards. But as pointed out above that yards per attempt are nearly identical at 7.3 for Luck and 7.2 for Wilson, which means that Wilson is nearly as effective per attempt than Luck is. He just doesn't get the opportunity to throw it 30+ times every game. Both have 6 wins so I'd say both are playing at a high level.

Seahawk Sailor wrote:I'll take his 188 yards, two touchdowns and a win any day of the week.

Not to mention no INT's.

The bobble heads at espn and nfl network put way too much importance on amount of yards thrown. It isn't the same as yards ran by a running back. A better way to judge a quarterback is to rate completion percentage, touchdowns, and interceptions.

jlwaters1 wrote:I agree that Luck is doing well but let's not go crazy. I don't see how anyone could say Luck is playing at a significantly higher level than Wilson. The Jags game wasn't spectacular. He had 227 yards and an INT (should have had 2 if not for a Jaguar Penalty) no TD's. Meanwhile Russel's thrown 7-1 TD/ INT in the last 3 games. Luck has 3-2 TD/INT ratio over that same time.

Andrew Luck is completing 57.5% of his passes this year (before I hear, he's got no one to throw too. Reggie Wayne is much more prolific than any WR Seattle has. Wayne accounts for roughly 1/3 of Luck's completions on the year and over 35% of all of Luck's yards. That's significant).
Wilson is @ 62.1%- Advantage (significant) WILSON

Luck is @ 7.3 YPA, Wilson @ 7.2 YPA. Advantage Luck.

Luck has 9 picks in 9 games, Wilson has 8 picks in 10 games, so it'd appear that Wilson has the advantage. However if you convert the picks into attempts. Luck has 1 pick every 40.22 passes. Wilson has 1 pick every 31.63 pass attempts. However if you take the last 3 games (most signifcant sample set IMO ) Luck has 2 picks (1 for every 56 passes). Wilson has 1 pick in 78 pass attempts. Advantage= Draw

Luck has 10 TD passes in 362 attempts or he throws a TD pass every 36.2 pass attempts. Wilson has 15 TD's in 253 attempts or 1 TD pass every 16.87 attempts. Advantage- (significant) Wilson.

So my point is the 2 are both playing very well. However, Wilson is more efficient in terms of completion % and is making the most of his passing attempts and is throwing alot of TD's.

The only real significant advantage for Luck is he's got more total passing yards. But as pointed out above that yards per attempt are nearly identical at 7.3 for Luck and 7.2 for Wilson, which means that Wilson is nearly as effective per attempt than Luck is. He just doesn't get the opportunity to throw it 30+ times every game. Both have 6 wins so I'd say both are playing at a high level.

Wilson is doing that with an actual team around him. He's got a great defense and run game, and a WR corps that is actually starting to look pretty competitive. I'm not knocking Wilson at all, because I think he's actually a very good quarterback, possibly a great quarterback, and I think he's going to will us to our first championship win. But...

Andrew Luck doesn't have those luxuries. That entire team is garbage. Your reference to Reggie Wayne just highlights the massive lack of supporting talent for Luck. Luck is going out there by himself and winning games. Just go watch a few games. Don't talk about numbers. Actually watch some games. You'll see Luck out there taking control of games, making some amazing throws, and looking like Peyton in the pocket. The dude is massively impressive and I'm not saying that to jump on any bandwagons.

The only way to fairly compare the two QBs would be to put them on the same team. And I'm gonna be honest - if Seattle had Andrew Luck at QB, we'd be unbeatable. I honestly believe we would be undefeated right now. Luck is that good.

Why don't you marry him already

dunceface wrote:Why don't you marry him already

Totes legal in Washington now, BTW

HansGruber wrote:

jlwaters1 wrote:I agree that Luck is doing well but let's not go crazy. I don't see how anyone could say Luck is playing at a significantly higher level than Wilson. The Jags game wasn't spectacular. He had 227 yards and an INT (should have had 2 if not for a Jaguar Penalty) no TD's. Meanwhile Russel's thrown 7-1 TD/ INT in the last 3 games. Luck has 3-2 TD/INT ratio over that same time.

Andrew Luck is completing 57.5% of his passes this year (before I hear, he's got no one to throw too. Reggie Wayne is much more prolific than any WR Seattle has. Wayne accounts for roughly 1/3 of Luck's completions on the year and over 35% of all of Luck's yards. That's significant).
Wilson is @ 62.1%- Advantage (significant) WILSON

Luck is @ 7.3 YPA, Wilson @ 7.2 YPA. Advantage Luck.

Luck has 9 picks in 9 games, Wilson has 8 picks in 10 games, so it'd appear that Wilson has the advantage. However if you convert the picks into attempts. Luck has 1 pick every 40.22 passes. Wilson has 1 pick every 31.63 pass attempts. However if you take the last 3 games (most signifcant sample set IMO ) Luck has 2 picks (1 for every 56 passes). Wilson has 1 pick in 78 pass attempts. Advantage= Draw

Luck has 10 TD passes in 362 attempts or he throws a TD pass every 36.2 pass attempts. Wilson has 15 TD's in 253 attempts or 1 TD pass every 16.87 attempts. Advantage- (significant) Wilson.

So my point is the 2 are both playing very well. However, Wilson is more efficient in terms of completion % and is making the most of his passing attempts and is throwing alot of TD's.

The only real significant advantage for Luck is he's got more total passing yards. But as pointed out above that yards per attempt are nearly identical at 7.3 for Luck and 7.2 for Wilson, which means that Wilson is nearly as effective per attempt than Luck is. He just doesn't get the opportunity to throw it 30+ times every game. Both have 6 wins so I'd say both are playing at a high level.

Wilson is doing that with an actual team around him. He's got a great defense and run game, and a WR corps that is actually starting to look pretty competitive. I'm not knocking Wilson at all, because I think he's actually a very good quarterback, possibly a great quarterback, and I think he's going to will us to our first championship win. But...

Andrew Luck doesn't have those luxuries. That entire team is garbage. Your reference to Reggie Wayne just highlights the massive lack of supporting talent for Luck. Luck is going out there by himself and winning games. Just go watch a few games. Don't talk about numbers. Actually watch some games. You'll see Luck out there taking control of games, making some amazing throws, and looking like Peyton in the pocket. The dude is massively impressive and I'm not saying that to jump on any bandwagons.

The only way to fairly compare the two QBs would be to put them on the same team. And I'm gonna be honest - if Seattle had Andrew Luck at QB, we'd be unbeatable. I honestly believe we would be undefeated right now. Luck is that good.

I have watched his games. He does look impressive. His footwork totally reminds me of Peyton. But you can't tell me that he was "spectacular" against the Jaguars. Or when he got beatdown by the Jets, can you? You keep saying their WR's are crap. I'd say it's a draw between Seattle and Indy at best. Wayne and Avery are comparable to what we've got in Rice and Tate. Dwayne Allen and Ty Hilton are comparable to Zach Miller and Doug Baldwin. Infact Indy's group has been more productive. Obviously Seattle has a massive advantage in the running game and defense. I think both QB's are elevating the WR's and TE's that are around them and I think both are playing well.

I just don't see your assertion that Luck is heads and shoulders above Wilson in any particular category. Overall Wilson has a better supporting cast. So what. That the luck of the draw. I completely disagree with the undefeated if we had Luck comment. Luck has taken his lumps this year just like Wilson has. Wilson started out slower than Luck, but that makes sense when you factor in the fact that WIlson wasn't named the starter on draft day. He wasn't given the majority of the reps in OTA"s and Fall camp like Luck and RG3 did. In that sense I think what Wilson is doing is even more remarkable.

Smoke wrote:

dunceface wrote:Why don't you marry him already

Totes legal in Washington now, BTW

Obvy

peachesenregalia wrote:

HansGruber wrote:Wilson looks fantastic and that's all I care about. Do we finally have an NFL-caliber starting QB??? Sure looks like it, and that is awesome. I'll take it.

As to Andrew Luck winning rookie of the year, he deserves it. The Colts were the worst team in the NFL last season, added Andrew Luck, and are now one of the best in the AFC. I think you could argue they're in the Top 3. That kid has turned that team around, and he's on another level than Wilson. I understand the homerism with Wilson, but come on. Go watch any of the last 3-4 Colts games and you're going to immediately see the difference. Luck is definitely living up to the hype.

I get what you're saying about Luck, and I think he'd be a deserving ROY barring a meltdown, but the numbers just don't stack up. He has 10 TDs and 9 INTs on the year, completion % isn't as good as Wilson's and is passer rating is way down there.

If all you look at is ESPNs obviously subjective and biased QBR, then yeah, he's running away with the ROY prize. Looking deeper, and i'd say Wilson is firmly in the race.

I just got done watching both Luck and Wilson highlights and Wilson looked the better of the two. Luck's passes aren't as perfectly thrown as Wilson's have been the past three weeks. Prior to that, yes, Luck was definitely better than Wilson, with RW's horrible floaters or his constantly missing wide open WR's. So as of today, the body of work favors Luck. But based on the past three weeks, Wilson has looked better.

Thing is, Luck hasn't faced nearly the level of competition Wilson has faced. How would Luck have fared with the brutal schedule the Hawks had? Now that the Hawks have an easier part of their schedule to get through, Wilson's able to shine. Funny, elite defenses tend to make it tougher for rookie QB's to do that.

I think we'll have a better idea of which one deserves the ROY when the dust settles and the season is over.