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 Post subject: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:03 pm 
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This QB draft class is turning out to be pretty good. So far those QBs that have been named starters have done a pretty good job in their stints.

Andrew Luck has his team 5-3 and in the playoff race.
RGIII has been phenomenal despite his team's record
Ryan Tannehill is doing well with Miami - 4-4
Brandon Weeden is playing fairly well
Russell Wilson is doing well at 5-4.


So far this class seems pretty darn good. 3 of the 4 starters have their teams in the playoff hunt midway through the season.

Don't remember many QB drafts as successful as this one....except for the legendary class of 1983.

Edit: Added RGIII, left him out by mistake on the original post.


Last edited by hawkfan68 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:28 pm 
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Your missing Robert Griffin who is 3-6. Griffin is this year's version of Cam Newton. Flashy and has all the media hype, but isn't winning many games. I find it frustrating that the media is falling all over themselves over Griffin meanwhile Russell Wilson has improved each and every game and seems to be hitting his stride.

It's a pretty good class. In contrast the 2011 class is looking shaky- Cam Newton is questionable as a leader and has hit a SO slump. Gabbert is very shaky on a bad Jags team. Locker, has been injured. Ponder looked great to start they year but has had 2 sub-65 yard passing outing over the last 4 weeks. Dalton is hitting that SO slump and is the only QB to throw a INT in every game this year for far. Colin Kaepernick is a gimmick in SF this year and isn't really ready to start. In short the 2011 QB class started on fire and has since hit a slump calling into question most of their long term longevity.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:33 pm 
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I would still take Andrew Luck if given the opportunity. But after watching them all for half a season Russell Wilson would be my 2nd choice.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:38 pm 
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RG3 has been phenomenal. Looking at team records with rookie QBs isn't exactly fair. Unless you think RG3 would be 3-6 with our running game, defense, and home field advantage. Is it Griffin's fault that the Redskins have given up the most points of any team in the NFC (2nd most in the NFL)?

Indy, Washington, and Seattle should all be thrilled with their choices so far. Miami as well, although not to the same extent yet. Weeden is doing OK, but it wouldn't surprise me if Cleveland went in a different direction if they could do it again.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:51 pm 
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I am sorry but RW is tops to me,he is running a big boy offense where RG3 is running a college sometimes pro offense.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:54 pm 
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VHawk wrote:
I am sorry but RW is tops to me,he is running a big boy offense where RG3 is running a college sometimes pro offense.

I didn't realize Mike Shanahan ran a little league offense. And all this time I thought John Elway was legit.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:04 pm 
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Rat wrote:
VHawk wrote:
I am sorry but RW is tops to me,he is running a big boy offense where RG3 is running a college sometimes pro offense.

I didn't realize Mike Shanahan ran a little league offense.


He sure is this year. Right thing to do with a rookie QB.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:07 pm 
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Shanahan is running what RG3 is comfortable with.Dont get me wrong dude is a freak but I think RW has had to mature more as a pro QB.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:13 pm 
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We have seen RW run the ball at will then he had to sit in the pocket then he would throw bombs and then dink and dunk,something new every week.None of these other QB's have matured like that.Just my opinion though.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:14 pm 
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VHawk wrote:
Shanahan is running what RG3 is comfortable with.Dont get me wrong dude is a freak but I think RW has had to mature more as a pro QB.

I'll agree with that. Hard to argue that RW isn't more mature (as a player anyway, both are very mature as people) right now.

If people think Wilson is better than RG3, that's fine (although I don't agree), my issue is the recent myopic trashing of RG3 and the lazy comparisons to guys like Cam Newton and Michael Vick.

If the question is who do I want for the future between RG3 and Wilson, I take RG3. If you're asking RG3 with a first round pick, plus all the picks the Redskins traded to get him, vs Wilson for a 3rd round pick. That's where I'll take Wilson.

That's not to say I think the Redskins made a mistake in moving up to get him. In a few years, I think we're all going to be very happy that the Rams traded down from the #2 pick.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:17 pm 
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Cant blame the Redskins for getting a franchise QB,it worked for the Giant when they gave up all those picks for Eli.Thank goodness we didnt have to sell the farm.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:18 pm 
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In no way is Shanahan running the same offense now as he did with Elway. Not even close.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:35 pm 
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No way is RG3 this years Cam. That's just lazy, IMO.

I was thinking how odd it is that every fanbase would most likely keep their rookie QB. Maybe not Cleveland, but he's not too terrible.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:38 pm 
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I know this is looking way WAY ahead and a little ridiculous at this point and time, but is it possible 3 Hall of Fame QB's come out of this class?

People will call me crazy but I see that potential in Luck and Wilson. And in RG3 IF he can stay healthy, which in my opinion is a huge IF. I think all 3 are students of the game, smart enough, athletic enough, and have the drive to continually get better. Griffin needs to get smarter in how and when he uses his body if he wants to last though, imo.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:38 pm 
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Re: RG3

Almost seems like shanny is pulling a herm edwards and riding his best offensive player into the ground trying to hang on to his job. The way they're using him right now RG3 won't last very long.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:44 pm 
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JSeahawks wrote:
I know this is looking way WAY ahead and a little ridiculous at this point and time, but is it possible 3 Hall of Fame QB's come out of this class?

People will call me crazy but I see that potential in Luck and Wilson. And in RG3 IF he can stay healthy, which in my opinion is a huge IF. I think all 3 are students of the game, smart enough, athletic enough, and have the drive to continually get better. Griffin needs to get smarter in how and when he uses his body if he wants to last though, imo.



I can totally see it all these guys are really that good.Great draft class no doubt.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:00 pm 
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MontanaHawk05 wrote:
Rat wrote:
VHawk wrote:
I am sorry but RW is tops to me,he is running a big boy offense where RG3 is running a college sometimes pro offense.

I didn't realize Mike Shanahan ran a little league offense.


He sure is this year. Right thing to do with a rookie QB.


Well, a rookie qb with a background running a spread offense in college.

The other side of it is the Pete Carroll/Russell Wilson way. Run a pure pro-offense, yet introduce more challenging playcalls and ask more from your rookie as he adjusts and adapts to the NFL. I think much quicker progress than the way Shanahan is doing it.

I can see the benefit of both. I could also see Carroll's way only being successful, record-wise, the way he set his team up for Wilson, knowing he had some pro-offense background; strong defense, strong running game & O line, and decent receiving threats.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:08 pm 
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When it is all said and done Wilson will have the most rings and will be looked at as the #1 qb in this class.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:21 pm 
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I think Russell Wilson has been superb. Much better than I anticipated. So this is in no way a knock on Russell Wilson, but I still have him 4th in the class. I have watched all five rookies quite extensively. I've got a bit of a rookie QB fetish, and watch a couple of them and Locker play at once on most Sundays. One on TV, one on my laptop, and one on my Ipad.

Andrew Luck is the real deal. I wasn't sure that he would be, but he completely is.

RGIII is the real deal. It is easy to see that his team is 3-6 and dismiss him, but he has played much smarter than I would have thought. I have zero doubt that if he can stay healthy, he is going to be in the playoffs more often than not throughout his career. Incredibly talented, and has the brains and throwing motion to go with it.

I've been completely blown away by Tannehill. For only playing the position for a few years, it is absolutely unreal how good he is. And absolutely fearless. Way more accurate than I thought. Way better command than I thought. He may have the most tools in the class. He just throws a gorgeous laser all over the field. As happy as I am with Wilson, I still think it would have been prudent to try to trade up to get Tannehill.

I wouldn't even dismiss Weeden. He's been really good for a rookie as well. Has zero cast, but has flashed brilliance a few times.

I know I'm going to hear it from the peanut gallery. I think Wilson is going to be fantastic. But I'd still trade him for one of the other three if given the chance, I just think they're going to be THAT good.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:24 pm 
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JSeahawks wrote:
I would still take Andrew Luck if given the opportunity. But after watching them all for half a season Russell Wilson would be my 2nd choice.


If I could take any of them right now, I'd probably take Wilson. He's grown the fastest of the rookie QBs in terms of managing the pocket, making reads, and picking up the offense.

Statistical, Russell Wilson is now the very best QB (not just rookie QBs) in the NFL in home games, with a home passer rating that resembles 2011 Aaron Rodgers (120.2). He has a 9/0 TD/INT ratio at home. His stats on the road have tanked his numbers, but remember that includes a ton of fluke-type interceptions and drops, particularly in the divisional games. He's been a little lucky at home, but very unlucky on the road. He's also improved each month, posting a 73.5 rating in September, a 90.5 rating in October, and a 127.3 rating (one game) so far in November.

I've always thought Luck was a safe pick and a future pro-bowl QB. I also thought the whole Peyton Manning talk was just ridiculous over-hype. A much better comparison for Andrew Luck is Ben Roethlisberger- a big, accurate QB with solid mobility who can win games (and championships) without needing a ton of charisma. Eli Manning with more mobility is a decent comparison as well.

Russell Wilson is almost a clone of Fran Tarkenton.



You'll see eery similarities, especially in regards to how Tarkenton would so often turn his back on pursuers to change directions. Tarkenton was the master of buying time to throw deep. Wilson can do that, but often chooses not to. He's like a smarter, more disciplined version. Tarkenton won six division titles and went to three Superbowls. It's often forgotten, but Tarkenton was the NFL's all time leader in passing yards and passing TDs the day that he retired.

I thought that Wilson looked more polished and more decisive against Minnesota than he looked in any game I scouted for him at Wisconsin. He might not be done improving yet either. You add to that his mobility and off the charts poise/character/leadership, and you have a QB with a scary high ceiling who looks pretty likely to reach it.

With RG3, I see Randall Cunningham with more injuries and more charisma. If he can find a happy medium where he can remain effective without exposing himself to injury, he could be the #1 QB out of this class. I think 10 years from now, Luck will probably rate behind those two, but will still be a no-doubter franchise QB, possibly with a Super Bowl ring.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Tarkenton was also the all time leading qb rusher when he retired....their scrambling style looks sooooo similar. Fun to watch.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:46 pm 
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I like RGIII but his success will be held back by Dan Snyder and the Redskins' front office. They are terrible.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:57 pm 
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I'll take our guy, and I fully agree on the Tarkinton comparison.

To me RW looks like Fran + Brees I think, given the Myans being wrong, (joke) We will be contending for titles for years to come.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:33 am 
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Speaking of Luck .. The colts strategy of bringing along his college tightends seems to e working well. I wonder why more clubs don’t do this? I also know Russell Wilson’s TE at NC State is in shape and ready to go if needed.

George Bryan is 6’5” barefoot 265 lbs with long arms and great hands. He has been working with a strength and conditioning coach and has improved both his upper body and his speed. He and Russ really had a great connection at NC State and he could be a great help on the Seahawk roster as a second or third TE.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:25 am 
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this year's draft QB class is phenomenal. Luck, RG3, T-hill and RW have everything going for them, to become the next Eli Manning / Big Ben / Rivers / Shaub.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:07 am 
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i would've been happy with any of the top 4 on the OP's list... however given where we're at now, i'm extremely happy and excited to have RW as our QB...

luck is everything they said he is, and will be a force in this league for years... uggggg hate the colts
RGIII is extremly talented as well, i would even venture to put him above Vick in his prime
Tannehill is solid as well, and has a laser arm, good poise, and works good in the pocket..

but my list would look like this at this point in the season...

1. luck
2. Wilson
3. Tannehill
4. Weeden

no understanding why people are saying RG3 is better than wilson.... better at what? throwing? maybe.. running? No (he's faster) reading defenses? doubt it.. going through his progressions? again doubt it... leading the team? would seriously doubt it>>>> so not sure why people say he's better..

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:16 am 
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I'm happy with Wilson, because as good as RGIII is, we spent a 3rd round pick to get our QB of the future, the redskins spent 3 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick. and we didn't have to go through a 2-14 season to get one either
Where the redskins picked up a QB and a guard who has played just 1 game (not even sure how many snaps), we picked up a QB, a starting MLB, a DE with 5 sacks to his name already, and over the next years, probably two more starters (probably a WR in 2013 and who knows in 2014?)


Last edited by themunn on Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
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I think he's Tarkenton and Warren Moon all in 1.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:35 am 
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Luck-P. Manning
Wilson-Brees
RGIII-Vick+

I haven't seen the other two play so I can't give an opinion.
FWIW, Vick+=better than.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:38 am 
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Colt and Washington knew who their starter was about a year ago....... OK that might be a bit over the top but come February / March they surely knew. Everyone knew Indy was picking Luck and everyone knew Washington was going RG3 next. Then Miami knew their starter come draft day.

EDIT - just realized washington traded up - oh well still knew their starter by draft day

Seattle knew their Starter late August..........

The point of this is playbook, playcalling, practice and just an overall game plan was for two teams started 8-10 months ago and for the Seahawks two weeks before the first game of the season. This is why we are seeing the Seahawks game opening up more as the season goes on and and I think our upside is huge. Luck and RG3 looks like they are for real but they did benefit from the early start. I am very interested to see how things compare next year.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:23 pm 
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RW is like Steve Young, only he will have a longer career because he doesn't take the hits. Pretty good that the rookie knows to get down.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:09 pm 
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I find it interesting how the different teams are developing their rookies. Miami and Washington seem to have adapted their offenses to what the QB is comfortable with...a 1 or 2 read option. Its getting them the best production early, but I think at the expense of the growth of the QB. I think this method comes back to bite you after the DC's around the league have about 8 games of tape to look at. Nobody mentions that Cam Newtons numbers were really quite pedestrian the last 1/2 of last year and so were Andy Dalton's. Both are now struggling to adjust to the adjustments the other teams have made to them.

On the other hand, Seattle and Indy took the longer view of staying true to their offensive philosophy, but simplifying their offense and then expanding it as the QB's ability to read defenses improves. Luck is further along this path than RW, but in both cases this means sustained growth and learning for the QB and less chance of a sophmore slump. I think RW will continue to improve week in and week out, and not fall back to the pack like I expect Tannehill and RGIII to do. Don't get me wrong, I think both are going to be excellent NFL QB's, (especially RGII...incredible athelete and incredibly football smart) but I think it may take a little longer to get there.

No opinion on what they are doing with Weedon....I haven't had the opportunity to watch him at all.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:57 pm 
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pehawk wrote:
No way is RG3 this years Cam. That's just lazy, IMO.

I was thinking how odd it is that every fanbase would most likely keep their rookie QB. Maybe not Cleveland, but he's not too terrible.


It's not lazy. Look at the results. Both have come in with extraordinary hype. Both have been productive. However, both aren't winning at the moment. Both defenses have let their rookie QB's down. That is the extent of my comparision. But that's alot of similarities. They numbers are very comparable aside from Newton's 6 more INT.

Newton (8 games (wk 9 bye))= 2393 yards, 60.1 Comp%, 11 TD's, 9 INT, 319 rushing yds, 7 Td's. 18 Total TD's.
Robert Griffin (9 games)= 1993 yards, 65% comp%, 8 TD's, 3 INT, 529 yards rushing, 6 TD's. 14 Total TD's

I wasn't implying that their styles were similar or not. Nor was I arguing that they are similar in terms of their leadership ability. I haven't watched enough of either to make a statement on those items.

I think what Luck is doing is more impressive. Both Luck and RG3 have equally bad teams but Luck is doing more to carry his team IMO. Both are showing good promise as is Wilson and Tannehill. The jury seems to be still out on Weeden.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:29 pm 
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canfan wrote:
I find it interesting how the different teams are developing their rookies. Miami and Washington seem to have adapted their offenses to what the QB is comfortable with...a 1 or 2 read option. Its getting them the best production early, but I think at the expense of the growth of the QB. I think this method comes back to bite you after the DC's around the league have about 8 games of tape to look at. Nobody mentions that Cam Newtons numbers were really quite pedestrian the last 1/2 of last year and so were Andy Dalton's. Both are now struggling to adjust to the adjustments the other teams have made to them.

On the other hand, Seattle and Indy took the longer view of staying true to their offensive philosophy, but simplifying their offense and then expanding it as the QB's ability to read defenses improves. Luck is further along this path than RW, but in both cases this means sustained growth and learning for the QB and less chance of a sophmore slump. I think RW will continue to improve week in and week out, and not fall back to the pack like I expect Tannehill and RGIII to do. Don't get me wrong, I think both are going to be excellent NFL QB's, (especially RGII...incredible athelete and incredibly football smart) but I think it may take a little longer to get there.

No opinion on what they are doing with Weedon....I haven't had the opportunity to watch him at all.


Phenomenal post. That's exactly how I see it.

Shanny is worried about his job, I can see why he's doing what he's doing. Miami not so much. 1st year head coach, every logical reason in the world to take his time laying the foundation for his program. Could be the head coach is more hired help than orchestra conductor and someone higher up the food chain is giving him direction.

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:01 pm 
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canfan -- great post and while not a rookie I would put Ponder in the same group as RG3. Came out strong to start the year and I was scratching my head as I had him listed under the terrible column. As teams gets more film on them and can game plan better for the style Ponder is showing a complete lack of ability to play the qb position


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:13 pm 
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canfan: another "great post" from me too. Not sure Miami/Tannehill belong in that group because I'm not so sure they hadn't already decided on his former college coach (Sherman IIRC) as OC before drafting him meaning they may have well already planned on implementing the offense Tannehill's now running. Otherwise I think you're spot on (and I freely admit I could be incorrect about the Miami situation).

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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:03 pm 
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If all things were equal, I would take both Luck and Wilson over RG3. Many good posts reagrding this in this thread so I don't need to be redundant in repeating what's already been said. I will add that those considering RG3 over Luck were / are out of their minds and I also think the comparsion to Cam is legit. I wish him well, but RG3 won't be around long. Every draft has at least one of these guys and despite historical data, there's always some team that believes this year's version will not be like the rest. Usually desperation is the culprit. You take a Luck to (ultimately) win championships and you take an RG3 to (immediately) put butts in seats. I wouldn't trade Wilson for RG3, but I'd give Wilson and a 1st for Luck. YMMV.


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:11 pm 
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RG3 playing well because of the system and plays called and him going downhill a bit for the rest of the year does in my mind NOT mean that he is not a future superstar. I think he has great accuracy and I just think he will take a big step back and then slowly move forward. Luck and RW will more continue to improve but it doesn't mean that they will end up being better than RG3.

Besides RG3's continuing running I don't see any red flags........


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 Post subject: Re: 2012 QB Draft class - Seahawk related
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:41 pm 
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I think this QB draft class will win 3 Super Bowl by 2018

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