How is Bruce Irvin Doing Compared to other DE's in the Draft

roiyair":2u6ilgdd said:

To be honest I'm quite surprised he managed 4.5 sacks so far. I don't know how to explain it but at times he seems just... helpless...
Either he's trying to bull rush but doesn't have the strength or he's overshooting the QB and has the tackle just mirror him. He's very far from Clem right now, even if the stats won't show it.
I'm not making any conclusions yet of course, but I really hope to see more from him, especially winning 1 on 1 matchups against the OT's

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Jville":3js1vlh5 said:

Sgt. Largent":3js1vlh5 said:

Since we're at the midway point of the 2012 season, I thought it'd be interesting to compare Irvin's stats to the other D-Lineman taken in the first round that the Hawks were rumored to be interested in.

In order drafted
Fletcher Cox - Philly = 11 tackles, 1 sack
Michael Brockers - St. Louis = 6 tackles, 1 sack
Bruce Irvin - Seattle = 7 tackles, 4.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble
Quintin Coples - Jets = 15 tackles, 2 sacks
Shea McClellin - San Diego = 5 tackles, 2 sacks
Chandler Jones - New England = 33 tackles, 6 sacks, 3 forced fumbles
Whitney Mercilus - 9 tackles, 1 sack, 1 forced fumble

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I'm not sure how useful these statistical summaries are for comparing different players used in different ways in different systems. Whitney Mercilus, for example, is actually listed as a linebacker who has seen more snaps on special teams (109) than on defense (79) thru week 8.

But in any case, providing snap counts on defense thru week 8 might add some perspective.

490 defensive snaps - Chandler Jones = 33 tackles, 6 sacks, 3 forced fumbles
296 defensive snaps - Quintin Coples = 15 tackles, 2 sacks
272 defensive snaps - Fletcher Cox = 11 tackles, 1 sack
217 defensive snaps - Bruce Irvin = 7 tackles, 4.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble
215 defensive snaps - Michael Brockers = 6 tackles, 1 sack
201 defensive snaps - Shea McClellin = 5 tackles, 2 sacks
079 defensive snaps - Whitney Mercilus = 9 tackles, 1 sack, 1 forced fumble

By the way, Bruce Irvin leads all Seahawk defensive linemen in special teams snaps with 41 thru week eight. The trio of Mebane, Bryant and Branch are all tied for second with 28 special teams snaps each.

For those interested in snap counts, Football Outsiders is your source and friend >>> http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts2012

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Mistashoesta":1u9ut61h said:

Young2Rice":1u9ut61h said:

hawkfan68":1u9ut61h said:

I think Irvin is doing well. He's not a full-time DE at this point and his sack numbers are the second highest.

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Aside from the sack totals, which can be deceiving, have you noticed him disrupting the passer? Causing errant throws or flushing the QB out of the pocket?

Are his sacks blows assignments or dd he beat them with moves?

Basically, what i'm asking, is when he's not getting sacks, what have you seen. That's the best way to assess him. Because 4.5 sacks is only 5 plays to assess from.

From the games i've seen, which were three (GB, Lions, Niners and Dallas), Irvin was a non factor aside from the GB game.

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Pretty sure that's four my friend.

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hawkmanj":30lfu3l7 said:

Irvin is doing fine for a rookie.

He got another sack today and got a couple good hits on Ponder, which are also valuable.

He even if only ever is a pass rushing specialist for us, if he does it well, he is doing something we need.

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Jville":2aalxp65 said:

Sgt. Largent":2aalxp65 said:

Jville":2aalxp65 said:

I'm not sure how useful these statistical summaries are for comparing different players used in different ways in different systems. Whitney Mercilus, for example, is actually listed as a linebacker who has seen more snaps on special teams (109) than on defense (79) thru week 8.

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You kinda illustrated my concern. The criticism of most draft experts was that Irvin was a pass rush specialist, and therefore not worthy of such a high pick.......and your snap count list proves that.

This is also in direct contrast to what Carroll said at the draft which was Irvin was not going to just be a pass rusher, that he was going to be developed into a full time DE.

Will Irvin be great someday? Maybe, but right now we're not getting enough production out of that DE spot opposite Clemons, and it's hurting our pass defense.

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Development time. Your talking about development time. Most rookies need time to develop their game in high school, college, and the NFL.

The draft objective that sticks in my mind is the selection of players with unique characteristics. Bruce Irvin as well as Jaye Howard have unique attributes that John and Pete covet. However, Bruce and Jaye both arrived with narrow specialties that limit their usefulness early on in their careers. Jaye Howard in fact has yet to see the field during the regular season.

I think the criticism that John and Pete have placed too much emphasis on specialists is a valid argument by outsiders. However, the current Seahawk program is structured to bring in and develop young players every year and turn over the roster in a planned manner.

So .... it may take two or three years to broaden the skill sets of Howard and Irvin and turn them into three down players. I for one was very relieved with the news that Chris Clemons signed a three year contract. In Seattle's current program, where a player is drafted is a reflection of perceived supply and demand of skill sets .... and not a reflection of perceived return on investement in the short term.

What I see is a program designed to dominate the division. Striving to understand it and watch it unfold is the fun part. :th2thumbs:

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hawksfan515":1bxzfk4f said:

hawkmanj":1bxzfk4f said:

Irvin is doing fine for a rookie.

He got another sack today and got a couple good hits on Ponder, which are also valuable.

He even if only ever is a pass rushing specialist for us, if he does it well, he is doing something we need.

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I read somewhere that he is going to take over for Clemons AND the coaching staff expects him to be a better run defender than Clemons. Hmmmmm......

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