I think he's done pretty good thus far but the last few games he seems to be reverting back to just speed rushing rather that working on spin or swim moves to discard his blocker. These skills will come in time with proper coaching. Overall I'm glad we have him.

He is primarily playing 3rd down only.... I think you forgot to mention that...or maybe you didn't know that.

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I wasn't the one that made the comparison.

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I'm on the fence with statments like this. We are ranked 7th in the league with 21 sacks. So it's not like we aren't getting to the QB. Sure 8 of those 21 are against GB but we are consistently getting 2 or more sacks in nearly every outing. So it might be unrealistic to think we should be getting 3-4 sacks a game. But it is clear that our pass rush is spotty. At times it looks brilliant, but it also disappears for long stretches.

I think we need to dial up more blitzes. It seems like we are relying on a 4 man rush way too often. It cound be worse, Jacksonville has 7 sacks TOTAL, Philly has 9.

Through 8 games Aldon Smith last year had 12 tackles and 6.5 sacks. Irvin isn't too far off that pace this year for 8 games.

Chandler Jones has been a beast. Very good pick by the Pats

I'd give Irvin a C+. Seems like if he is facing any O lineman with decent quickness he gets easily swallowed up. But he has had a few glorious moments, so that saves him, plus I'd give him credit for being a rookie.

Actually it is a fair comparison because last year Aldon Smith was a situational player as Irvin is this year. Also Aldon is starting this year you are right but it's at LBer.

What I don't think makes the comparison fair is that Aldon Smith is on a much better defense with better players around him giving him better chances.

If the Hawks truly want to be considered an "elite" defense, then they're going to have to get consistent pressure with just their four down linemen.

I agree with your blitzing comment, but only too a point. What I'd like to see is more creative blitz packages, and not just rush Thomas or a DB off the edge when we need to get pressure. Blitzes can expose a defense as we saw in Detroit, which is why our front four need to do better.

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I'd give him a c+ so far. Seems like he needs to develope a few more moves than just a speed rush. Think he has a good future ahead of him. I'd assume they try and get him to add a little weight this off season and become an every down DE eventually.

I'm not sure how useful these statistical summaries are for comparing different players used in different ways in different systems. Whitney Mercilus, for example, is actually listed as a linebacker who has seen more snaps on special teams (109) than on defense (79) thru week 8.

But in any case, providing snap counts on defense thru week 8 might add some perspective.

490 defensive snaps - Chandler Jones = 33 tackles, 6 sacks, 3 forced fumbles
296 defensive snaps - Quintin Coples = 15 tackles, 2 sacks
272 defensive snaps - Fletcher Cox = 11 tackles, 1 sack
217 defensive snaps - Bruce Irvin = 7 tackles, 4.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble
215 defensive snaps - Michael Brockers = 6 tackles, 1 sack
201 defensive snaps - Shea McClellin = 5 tackles, 2 sacks
079 defensive snaps - Whitney Mercilus = 9 tackles, 1 sack, 1 forced fumble

By the way, Bruce Irvin leads all Seahawk defensive linemen in special teams snaps with 41 thru week eight. The trio of Mebane, Bryant and Branch are all tied for second with 28 special teams snaps each.

For those interested in snap counts, Football Outsiders is your source and friend >>> http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts2012

I'm sorry, I've forgotten who Bruce Irvin is.

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That IMHO is a concern and a contributing factor in our losses this season. Putting the qb on his back, even if it isnt a sack affects the way a qb thinks , how long he's willing to hang onto the ball, produces "happy feet". Too many comfortable drop backs for Stafford. Oh yeah, he's a pretty damned good player too. 300 yards good.

Aside from the sack totals, which can be deceiving, have you noticed him disrupting the passer? Causing errant throws or flushing the QB out of the pocket?

Are his sacks blows assignments or dd he beat them with moves?

Basically, what i'm asking, is when he's not getting sacks, what have you seen. That's the best way to assess him. Because 4.5 sacks is only 5 plays to assess from.

From the games i've seen, which were three (GB, Lions, Niners and Dallas), Irvin was a non factor aside from the GB game.

Pretty sure that's four my friend.

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I think jason jones is the most vauable linemen

Pressure in the A gap moves the qb and allows ends to use speed and chase down. He will get paid next year...without inside pressure we are kind of stuck...

MVP DL on passing downs at least.

Other than that minor caveat I reckon you pretty much summed it up. Jones moves the qb off his launch point and into the damage path of the ends. He's proving his point that he deserves to get paid.

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You kinda illustrated my concern. The criticism of most draft experts was that Irvin was a pass rush specialist, and therefore not worthy of such a high pick.......and your snap count list proves that.

This is also in direct contrast to what Carroll said at the draft which was Irvin was not going to just be a pass rusher, that he was going to be developed into a full time DE.

Will Irvin be great someday? Maybe, but right now we're not getting enough production out of that DE spot opposite Clemons, and it's hurting our pass defense.

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Double edge sword of the scheme.

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Development time. Your talking about development time. Most rookies need time to develop their game in high school, college, and the NFL.

The draft objective that sticks in my mind is the selection of players with unique characteristics. Bruce Irvin as well as Jaye Howard have unique attributes that John and Pete covet. However, Bruce and Jaye both arrived with narrow specialties that limit their usefulness early on in their careers. Jaye Howard in fact has yet to see the field during the regular season.

I think the criticism that John and Pete have placed too much emphasis on specialists is a valid argument by outsiders. However, the current Seahawk program is structured to bring in and develop young players every year and turn over the roster in a planned manner.

So .... it may take two or three years to broaden the skill sets of Howard and Irvin and turn them into three down players. I for one was very relieved with the news that Chris Clemons signed a three year contract. In Seattle's current program, where a player is drafted is a reflection of perceived supply and demand of skill sets .... and not a reflection of perceived return on investement in the short term.

What I see is a program designed to dominate the division. Striving to understand it and watch it unfold is the fun part.