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 Post subject: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:05 pm 
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and they were at home. Tough assignment for any team.

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:12 pm 
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That may be true but we ALL should have expected a much better effort from our defense today.

Much better effort.

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Fair enough but they weren't below average or even average. They are very good. They have 4-5 fairly elite offensive weapons and they were at home. Aside from the Big Titus Young TD I thought the D played a little below what I expected.

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:16 pm 
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naw im not buying it, weren't we the number one defense just a few weeks ago?
now we supposed to get beat because they the number four offense?
didn't we go toe to toe with new england? the hands down #1 offense?

this team just isn't good. not ready, not yet....

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:18 pm 
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12-16 on 3rd down. That's the only number that you need to look at.

That's unacceptable vs. any defense, let alone one that's supposedly elite like the Hawks.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:18 pm 
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Just so we're clear-

They were in last place in their division. Dead last.

They lost their #2 receiver to injury

We are supposedly an elite defense that talk smack.

They were 75% on third down conversions. I don't have dyslexia, it's not 57%, it's 75%. Glancing at this, http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/th ... ersion-pct the average appears to be around 40 percent.

We threw away another game against an inferior team, it amazes me the lack of accountability in general of this team.

Good teams rise to tough challenges, this team does not.

Ugh.


Last edited by rjdriver on Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:19 pm 
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defense played a little below what you expected..? not sure what you expected but from my expectations... they never showed up... how do you repeatedly give up 3rd and longs after 3rd and longs... why have we not adjusted to covering backs and TE's , when are we going to learn from our mistakes coaching staff?????????? this D is getting dinked and dunked right out of the post season... cry F'n shame......

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:21 pm 
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rjdriver wrote:
Just so we're clear-

They were in last place in their division. Dead last.

They lost their #2 receiver to injury

We are supposedly an elite defense that talk smack.

They were 75% on third down conversions. I don't have dyslexia, it's not 57%, it's 75%. Glancing at this, http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/th ... ersion-pct the average appears to be around 40 percent.

We threw away another game against an inferior team, it amazes me the lack of accountability this team has.

Ugh.


Seriously. Folks trying to say well hey we should have seen the juggernaut Detroit offense coming are in some serious denial. They were a bad team, and if they turn around and rip of a few Ws it'll be because they got well against our vaunted D. Pathetic.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:22 pm 
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oh and Trufant is a liability.... he's old and way past his prime, and he cannot cover any more.. now they got him covering te's... seriously what the hell are these coaches thinking....

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:22 pm 
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finally someone brings up accountability. You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. No sarcasm for real


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:30 pm 
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Just so we're clear:

This was Stafford's FIRST mutliple TD game. In every other game, he's only thrown one this year. He also went for a season high in yards.

The Lions rung up 415 yards of offense on us.

Titus Young had a career high day. That means he hasn't done this to ANYONE else.

The TE's for Detroit had 11 catches for 120 yards. Our LBers still can't cover anyone.

Detroit was 2nd to last in red zone effeciency at 30%. They were at 100% percent today. 3/3. That's a TD EVERY time they were inside the 20.

Just so we're clear, the defense was the one that lost the ball game today. When you score 24 points and rack up 366 yards of offense (which might be a season high for us as well), then you better win that ball game, or your defense is what is lacking.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:36 pm 
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Absolutely worst game by our "vaunted" defense of the season. 10 freaking days to prepare too for this team. All I gotta say is this better not be a trend. Where was Kam and KJ today? They did absolutely nothing. Sherm got absolutely burned by Titus Young on their 2nd TD and Browner got caught with his pants down on the last drive. And our "stellar pass rush"? Irvin has been non-existent the past few weeks and Clem only had a few impact plays today. Horrible Pete, you better be kicking some ass this week in practice.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:40 pm 
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Elite or great defenses dont give up 12-16 3rd downs. We're neither.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:47 pm 
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Stop trashing our defense, guys. You have to realize there are 2 sides playing, it's ok to give credit to the Lions. Stafford is one of only 4 players in NFL history to throw 5000 yards, he can shred up any team this league has to offer, past or present.

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Yeah guys, when the 2-4 Lions look like juggernauts against your defense there's nothing you can do about it. You're still a dominant defense, don't worry!


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:52 pm 
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hawk45 wrote:
Yeah guys, when the 2-4 Lions look like juggernauts against your defense there's nothing you can do about it. You're still a dominant defense, don't worry!



Thank You!


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:58 pm 
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There's no such thing as a perfect defense, especially on the road against a team that has proven it can move the ball against any team in this league without even thinking about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:03 pm 
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ensett wrote:
Stop trashing our defense, guys.


Did you even watch the game?


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:10 pm 
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I think what people are getting at, is that an elite defense dictates what the offense is going to do. They don't let an offense play to their strong points, continually, and all game long.

We actually played the Patriots elite. And this is what some people are reaching for this game. The Pats got their yards on us, but they had been running the ball at 250 yards a game, then played us and Brady set a career high in pass attempts. We took away what was working for them, and gasp! we won the game.

Detroit hasn't been running the ball well. They actually haven't been very good offensively this year, and they blew us up through the air. The offense dictated how the game would go. This game, our defense wasn't elite.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:38 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:44 pm 
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And we run our yaps about being an elite defense.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Over 400 yards given up. 4 TDs for 28 points given up. 12 out of 16 third down conversions given up. 100% rate for TDs in the red zone given up. This defense gave up one extra yard than they could afford almost every time the situation arose. "Elite" defenses don't do this. Elite defenses stall drives and limit points. On the last drive, the Lions were 3-3 for 18 yards and a TD on 3rd down. This is not "elite" - it's "elite at home."

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:56 pm 
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Seahawk Sailor wrote:
Over 400 yards given up. 4 TDs for 28 points given up. 12 out of 16 third down conversions given up. 100% rate for TDs in the red zone given up. This defense gave up one extra yard than they could afford almost every time the situation arose. "Elite" defenses don't do this. Elite defenses stall drives and limit points. On the last drive, the Lions were 3-3 for 18 yards and a TD on 3rd down. This is not "elite" - it's "elite at home."


Careful with bringing the truth...you might be labeled a doom and gloomer in here.

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:56 pm 
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and they're a 22 rated defense btw.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:59 pm 
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I agree with everyone in this thread except OP and ensett. I don't care if they're playing the Greatest Show on Turf, Montana's 49ers, the 2007 Patriots, etc...allowing 12/16 3rd down conversions is unacceptable. Elite defenses SHUT THE DOOR when given the lead in the 4th quarter.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:22 pm 
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All I'm trying to say is, even an elite defense can't do it every time. Even the 2000 ravens defense blew a 4th quarter lead against the Jaguars on a 40 yard TD pass with under 2 minutes to go. Fortunately for them their offense had enough time to recapture the lead. Just because we could have played better doesn't mean you can't give the lions some credit, our team isn't the only one out there.

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:29 pm 
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Let's just be clear - our defense is overrated.

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:30 pm 
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naw im not buying it, weren't we the number one defense just a few weeks ago?
now we supposed to get beat because they the number four offense?
didn't we go toe to toe with new england? the hands down #1 offense?

this team is good. Just not ready, not yet....


Fixed it for ya. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:58 pm 
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Tech Worlds wrote:
Let's just be clear - our defense is overrated.


Agreed. They've given up the lead in the 4th quarter in 3 games this year. Also allowed Bradford to convert 5 third downs of 8 yards or longer. Allowing ~44% third down's to be converted this year. Can't get to the QB on the road. Embarrassing.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:04 am 
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ensett wrote:
All I'm trying to say is, even an elite defense can't do it every time. Even the 2000 ravens defense blew a 4th quarter lead against the Jaguars on a 40 yard TD pass with under 2 minutes to go. Fortunately for them their offense had enough time to recapture the lead. Just because we could have played better doesn't mean you can't give the lions some credit, our team isn't the only one out there.


i'll give the lions credit for exploiting our seriously weak scheme at protecting the middle.. that's it.. there was no tenacity, no leadership, nobody getting in anybody's face, and telling them to step it up...i saw a lot of head shaking, heads down, looking hopelessly in the distance for their 12th man.... lions looked, stronger , faster, better than our defense... and i blame it all on our coaching staff, starting with the big guy....

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:31 am 
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Well, they did shut down Megatron for most of the game. Too bad they forgot there are 10 other players for the Lions on offense. The defense lost this game. They had a lead and couldn't stop the Lions late. That's on the defense. Teams have figured out how to beat the Seahawks - short to mid passes, dink and dunk on them all game long. That's exactly what the Lions did. TE has burned the Seahawks in almost every game this year. Against the Cards, it was Heap destroying them, against the 49ers Walker (a TE) scored the only TD in the game, Lions - Pettigrew and Chandler had good efforts.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:41 am 
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11 catches for 120 yards is what Detroit's TE's did to us.

So here's the question....Detroit had the 4th rated offense. The Saints had a 2nd rated offense. Denver's defense crushed them. I'm not sure, but I don't think they were a top 10 rated defense. So....does that mean that Denver's defense is now elite ? Or the Saints offense was overrated ? What it means to me is that any game can be an anomoly. They schemed well, and won the game in convincing fashion. They stopped an elite offense, and dictated the pace and tempo of what they could do. And that's a good defense, not elite.

Our defense definately isn't elite. We don't seem to scheme well, and the same things have been beating us all year. It's not different things, it's the same things. I'm starting to get a little worried about our game schemes and adjustments from our coaching staff. I will say that our D is young and can improve, but we know we have top 5 personnel talent.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:41 am 
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Over 400 yards given up. 4 TDs for 28 points given up. 12 out of 16 third down conversions given up. 100% rate for TDs in the red zone given up. This defense gave up one extra yard than they could afford almost every time the situation arose. "Elite" defenses don't do this. Elite defenses stall drives and limit points. On the last drive, the Lions were 3-3 for 18 yards and a TD on 3rd down. This is not "elite" - it's "elite at home."


Our "elite at home" defense gave up similar stats to Tom Brady and you didn't complain.

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:20 am 
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MontanaHawk05 wrote:
Our "elite at home" defense gave up similar stats to Tom Brady and you didn't complain.


Lots of people did. Lots of people were concerned about that fact that despite big hits on Welker he had 100+ yards against us. All season long people here have been concerned about the plays across the middle for medium yardage killing us. Arizona game - loss, Detroit game - loss - same way move the ball slowly and methodically across the field for long sustained drives that not only exploits the defense but also tires them out

This was an offense that just got SHUT DOWN by Chicago. They were dominated last Monday night and now they were unstoppable?


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:27 am 
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"Our "elite at home" defense gave up similar stats to Tom Brady and you didn't complain"

I didn't complain about the yards, and I was happy with the score of the Pats. The Pats scored 23 against us, when they were averaging 29. They were the 2nd ranked offense points-wise in the league at the time. We held them to under their average and won.

Detroit scored 28 against us, when they were averaging 21.8. If we held them to their average, we'd have won. Detroit was around the 19th ranked team for scoring offense before the game. If we'd held them to that 22 points, we win. If we held them to 6 points under their average (like we did to the Pats), it would've been a 2 score win.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Matt Stafford had a GREAT game. Our defense didn't play it's very best, but that was arguably the best QB performance against us all year, IMO. He was feeling pressure, buying time, finding targets, and was unbelievably efficient on 3rd down. He made some really tough throws look routine.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:45 pm 
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Seahawk Sailor wrote:
Over 400 yards given up. 4 TDs for 28 points given up. 12 out of 16 third down conversions given up. 100% rate for TDs in the red zone given up. This defense gave up one extra yard than they could afford almost every time the situation arose. "Elite" defenses don't do this. Elite defenses stall drives and limit points. On the last drive, the Lions were 3-3 for 18 yards and a TD on 3rd down. This is not "elite" - it's "elite at home."


THIS from the guy who can't stop making favorable comparisons to the Baltimore Ravens of 2000 and 2005 (aren't they the same?).

Make up your mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:24 pm 
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Absolutely worst game by our "vaunted" defense of the season. 10 freaking days to prepare too for this team. All I gotta say is this better not be a trend. Where was Kam and KJ today? They did absolutely nothing. Sherm got absolutely burned by Titus Young on their 2nd TD and Browner got caught with his pants down on the last drive. And our "stellar pass rush"? Irvin has been non-existent the past few weeks and Clem only had a few impact plays today. Horrible Pete, you better be kicking some ass this week in practice.

Yes, and some of the asses that need kicking FIRST, are HIS OWN, AND HIS Defensive COACHES
This was a sloppily called Defensive game, from stem to stern.
There sure are a lot of excuse makers for this game.
With 3 days to map out a win against the 49rs, and we lose a close one in their back yard.
With NINE days to FIX some problems, and shed the funk of that loss, we should have been way more prepared.
I honestly think that some of the Coaches were expecting the players to win, and I might be wrong, but think they may have taken this game for granted.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:29 pm 
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kearly wrote:
Matt Stafford had a GREAT game. Our defense didn't play it's very best, but that was arguably the best QB performance against us all year, IMO. He was feeling pressure, buying time, finding targets, and was unbelievably efficient on 3rd down. He made some really tough throws look routine.

yes, and our Defense didn't have an answer to that ONE player.
The Lions obviously had a great game plan and Stafford executed it without any real hampering.
Stafford is no Brady, and he's no Rodgers.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:30 pm 
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kearly wrote:
Matt Stafford had a GREAT game. Our defense didn't play it's very best, but that was arguably the best QB performance against us all year, IMO. He was feeling pressure, buying time, finding targets, and was unbelievably efficient on 3rd down. He made some really tough throws look routine.

Just like Kolb, just like Brady, just like Bradford....seeing a pattern here? It's not that the QB's had great games, it's that our defense ALLOWED them to have great games.

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:32 pm 
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SalishHawkFan wrote:
kearly wrote:
Matt Stafford had a GREAT game. Our defense didn't play it's very best, but that was arguably the best QB performance against us all year, IMO. He was feeling pressure, buying time, finding targets, and was unbelievably efficient on 3rd down. He made some really tough throws look routine.

Just like Kolb, just like Brady, just like Bradford....seeing a pattern here? It's not that the QB's had great games, it's that our defense ALLOWED them to have great games.


Bradford had a great game? If Wilson had put up Bradford's stats in a win, you'd have launched at least 3 threads about starting Flynn.

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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:31 pm 
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Just so we're clear - Dolphins were the #29 offense. So tired of the excuses made for the defense after every other choke job this year (Arizona, Detroit). There are no excuses to be made today. The reality is, this defense is extremely overrated.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:36 pm 
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Yeah I think the excuse of playing the sneaky-good offense on the road has been killed dead and trampled and lit on fire today.

Could be Stafford, could be Tannehill, could be Kolb, could be literally anyone, our defense will make them look like Montana on the road.


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 Post subject: Re: Just so we're clear - Lions are the #4 Offense
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:37 pm 
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Careful - calling it like it is will get you scorned around here. It's better if you post how wonderful everything is...the softies like it better when you throw roses.

:sarcasm_off:

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