Trade the farm for this years heisman

Discuss your thoughts about anything draft related. Mocks, College and Pro. Knock yourselves out!!! RATING: PG-13
Trade the farm for this years heisman
Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:35 pm
  • Manti teo is worth the farm

    27th pick

    13th pick Matt Flynn via trade

    4th rounder

    Replace good old pot head Leroy hill loved the guy
    Week 1 of the preseason vs. The Tennessee Titans, I said the Seahawks were winning the superbowl...

    "Oh and by the way, Go Hawks!!!" Russel Wilson
    User avatar
    skater18000
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 504
    Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:14 pm


Re: Trade the farm for this years heisman
Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:39 pm
  • Too bad Collin Klein is probably going to win it.
    Image
    User avatar
    JSeahawks
    * NET Moderator *
     
    Posts: 18699
    Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:35 pm
    Location: Milwaukie, Oregon


Re: Trade the farm for this years heisman
Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:42 pm
  • the whole farm? for a linebacker???
    Image
    3elieve
    User avatar
    Throwdown
    * NET Baller *
     
    Posts: 19283
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:02 am
    Location: Graham, WA


Re: Trade the farm for this years heisman
Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:44 pm
  • Throwdown wrote:the whole farm? for a linebacker???


    Dude, you can't miss with LBs.
    I enjoy ruining threads by making them about personal attacks and then commenting about how personal attacks make the other person's argument invalid.

    :les:
    User avatar
    SonicHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 8383
    Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm


Re: Trade the farm for this years heisman
Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:50 pm
  • SonicHawk wrote:
    Throwdown wrote:the whole farm? for a linebacker???


    Dude, you can't miss with LBs.


    SonicHawk, I got Aaron Curry on the line, do you want to take the call? lol
    Image
    3elieve
    User avatar
    Throwdown
    * NET Baller *
     
    Posts: 19283
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:02 am
    Location: Graham, WA


Re: Trade the farm for this years heisman
Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:55 pm
  • Aaron Curry and him are polar opposites and curry is an idiot
    Week 1 of the preseason vs. The Tennessee Titans, I said the Seahawks were winning the superbowl...

    "Oh and by the way, Go Hawks!!!" Russel Wilson
    User avatar
    skater18000
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 504
    Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:14 pm


  • Go ahead and try the can't miss arguement here, Brian Bosworth played admirable at least a couple years but was also a can't miss, Curry is just a bad dream.
    Image

    To Be P/C or Not P/C That is the Question..........Seahawks kick Ass !!!!
    Check your PM's, Thank you for everything Radish RIP My Friend. :les:
    Member of the 38 club.
    User avatar
    chris98251
    .NET Hijacker
     
    Posts: 11541
    Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:52 pm
    Location: Renton Wa.


  • skater18000 wrote:13th pick Matt Flynn via trade


    Lol?
    Meeker
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 351
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:33 pm


  • Teo is only in the conversation for a heisman because he is at ND. Put him anywhere else and he wouldn't even get a vote. Oh and the pick hit the ground and he lost possession, horrible call.
    CPHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2260
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:49 pm


Re: Trade the farm for this years heisman
Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:39 pm
  • Teo is worth an early pick or to mid round picks
    Week 1 of the preseason vs. The Tennessee Titans, I said the Seahawks were winning the superbowl...

    "Oh and by the way, Go Hawks!!!" Russel Wilson
    User avatar
    skater18000
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 504
    Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:14 pm


Manti Teo
Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:41 pm
  • Give me Teo we need to be stacked
    Week 1 of the preseason vs. The Tennessee Titans, I said the Seahawks were winning the superbowl...

    "Oh and by the way, Go Hawks!!!" Russel Wilson
    User avatar
    skater18000
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 504
    Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:14 pm


  • CPHawk wrote:Teo is only in the conversation for a heisman because he is at ND. Put him anywhere else and he wouldn't even get a vote.


    I've seen plenty of absolutely ridiculous things on here over the years but this has got to be near the top.
    User avatar
    SuperHawks
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 335
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 10:32 am


  • 1. Matt Flynn for the 13th pick? Has Will Ferrell been appointed GM of a team in the National Football League?

    2. Te'o is an inside linebacker. To accommodate this trade you'd have to move a player - Bobby Wagner - who is already playing at a Pro-Bowl level.

    3. You don't trade the farm for a linebacker when two thirds of your linebacker group is excellent and the other player is league average. That's called 'good enough'.
    User avatar
    theENGLISHseahawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 8162
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:13 am


  • SuperHawks wrote:
    CPHawk wrote:Teo is only in the conversation for a heisman because he is at ND. Put him anywhere else and he wouldn't even get a vote.


    I've seen plenty of absolutely ridiculous things on here over the years but this has got to be near the top.



    Really? How many votes did Clay Mathews get or any of the other studs from SC over the years? All IMO just as good as Teo. If he played for UW he would be 12th in the vote, but thanks to the media always getting on their knees for all things ND he is now a leader for the Heisman.

    Just in the SEC there are 2-3 LB I would take over him.
    CPHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2260
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:49 pm


  • Te'o isn't known for his brilliance. I could tell you the story about his official visit to BYU (and a few others), but I won't since it's been a few years and I'll assume he's grown up some. His family isn't full of bright bulbs either. I can only imagine what would have happened had he kept his commitment to BYU and been lined up opposite of Kyle Van Noy. The plan was to have them play together for 4 years. Van Noy got arrested and redshirted a year. Te'o just did some terribly stupid things and then backed out on or had his offer rescinded (depending on who you ask). It wasn't a high point for college visits though. Hopefully he's turned the corner and makes better decisions. I'm not judging the guy. I love him and stick with him and hope he does really well every week (except when he played byu), but if he hasn't grown up a TON then he's going to have a really difficult adjustment to the NFL.

    In my view Van Noy is every bit the player Te'o is. If he had gone to BYU you wouldn't be hearing Heisman talk on Manti, but if Kyle had gone to a PAC 10 (12) school or Notre Dame I think you'd be hearing the same talk about him that you're hearing about Manti now.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


Re: Trade the farm for this years heisman
Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:39 am
  • I would rather wait until the 2nd round and draft Kansas St (OLB) Arthur Brown.
    cover-2
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 542
    Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:47 am


  • SharkHawk wrote:Te'o isn't known for his brilliance. I could tell you the story about his official visit to BYU (and a few others), but I won't since it's been a few years and I'll assume he's grown up some. His family isn't full of bright bulbs either. I can only imagine what would have happened had he kept his commitment to BYU and been lined up opposite of Kyle Van Noy. The plan was to have them play together for 4 years. Van Noy got arrested and redshirted a year. Te'o just did some terribly stupid things and then backed out on or had his offer rescinded (depending on who you ask). It wasn't a high point for college visits though. Hopefully he's turned the corner and makes better decisions. I'm not judging the guy. I love him and stick with him and hope he does really well every week (except when he played byu), but if he hasn't grown up a TON then he's going to have a really difficult adjustment to the NFL.

    In my view Van Noy is every bit the player Te'o is. If he had gone to BYU you wouldn't be hearing Heisman talk on Manti, but if Kyle had gone to a PAC 10 (12) school or Notre Dame I think you'd be hearing the same talk about him that you're hearing about Manti now.


    Can you shed more light on the issues for those of us interested in learning more about Te'o?
    User avatar
    theENGLISHseahawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 8162
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:13 am


  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    SharkHawk wrote:Te'o isn't known for his brilliance. I could tell you the story about his official visit to BYU (and a few others), but I won't since it's been a few years and I'll assume he's grown up some. His family isn't full of bright bulbs either. I can only imagine what would have happened had he kept his commitment to BYU and been lined up opposite of Kyle Van Noy. The plan was to have them play together for 4 years. Van Noy got arrested and redshirted a year. Te'o just did some terribly stupid things and then backed out on or had his offer rescinded (depending on who you ask). It wasn't a high point for college visits though. Hopefully he's turned the corner and makes better decisions. I'm not judging the guy. I love him and stick with him and hope he does really well every week (except when he played byu), but if he hasn't grown up a TON then he's going to have a really difficult adjustment to the NFL.

    In my view Van Noy is every bit the player Te'o is. If he had gone to BYU you wouldn't be hearing Heisman talk on Manti, but if Kyle had gone to a PAC 10 (12) school or Notre Dame I think you'd be hearing the same talk about him that you're hearing about Manti now.


    Can you shed more light on the issues for those of us interested in learning more about Te'o?


    Nah, I shouldn't say too much. I can link you to some people's "reports" on what all took place. It wasn't good for Manti and he didn't show a lot of maturity. It isn't anything that would ruin a kid's draft status I don't think. He and his cousins are just universally known for doing stupid crap (he has a cousin that committed to BYU the same weekend he did that is the BIGGEST moron on the face of the earth... seriously... he has already been kicked out of two schools and lost two full ride scholarships). I think that is one of the main reasons he wanted to go to Notre Dame... to get away from a lot of the influences around him. Hawaii is an interesting place. The culture is interesting. Samoa and Tonga and Fiji as well. They play an important part in the history of my religion. His name (Manti) actually comes from the Book of Mormon, as do many of the polynesian names. The culture is ancient and strong and amazing. Don't get me wrong here in how this comes out. But there are also problems when the culture and the way things have been done for thousands of years conflict with modern day norms, values, mores, whatever you want to call them. Sometimes the island kids get together here at BYU and the U of Utah and things just get bad fast.

    The majority of my friends and family are either black or polynesian, but I can see the reality of what goes on. There are events I've been to (like weddings) where full on gang-wars were ready to erupt. We've got a massive Island population here, and guys get together and do really really dumb stuff.

    This wasn't Manti, but several years ago a cousin signed a letter of intent and was set to enroll in school the next day. He and his friends went for a drive. One remembered he hated this guy whose house they were near (right by my home). So thy saw him on the porch and shot and killed him. 5 young men went to prison. The kid who was riding in the car got 5 years and of course lost his scholly for "aiding and abetting" and "evading". He saw it happen and just ran for it. It scared the heck out of him. On their own, none of those boys would have killed that man. Together, it was like a natural thing to drive up and blow his head off. So messed up. The young man served 3 years and went on to play JC football and got an associates degree and has done ok in life.

    Manti is one of those kids that was impressionable in high school. I think now it's more that he MAKES the impression and it's good. I think he got here and wanted to impress his cousins and did some flat out stupid crap that I think he probably really regrets now. If you were a GM though, you wouldn't think twice about it. The fact that it was BYU and he was the #1 Mormon athlete at the time put him under a huge microscope. Just like what Jabari Parker is going through right now. He's being called the next Jordan, the next Kobe, the next LeBron, etc. and he's trying to stay true to his faith and talk about his goals in life and what he wants to do, and gets a TON of pressure on him. That's what happened to Manti. He didn't handle it as well as I would have hoped, but I'm sure he would now. If I had a chance to draft him, I would. Sometimes being the "spokesperson" for a group is hard. Stanley Havili went through the same thing and so did Haloti Ngata. Both backed out on their BYU scholarships at the last moment and went to USC and U of O respectively, because they felt it would be less pressure on them from the religious standpoint, and that they'd get more chance at an NFL career (which is hooey.... good players get a chance no matter where they go... Ngata would have been a first rounder had he gone to BYU as well... going to BYU didn't hurt Dennis Pitta's draft standing).

    Anyway, I probably shouldn't have said anything at all. I just felt like piping up because I like Manti, I support him, I love his family, but a few of those family members are knuckleheads and always want to be around causing crap and I hope he stays strong and continues to stay away from it as he's done so well while in college.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


  • So he committed to BYU before going to ND? That's interesting.
    User avatar
    kearly
    * Mr Random Thought *
     
    Posts: 11395
    Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:44 am


Re: Trade the farm for this years heisman
Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:08 am
  • Verbally yes. Then on his official visit, some bad stuff went down. Bronco Mendenhall rescinded his scholly. My thinking was that Bronco wanted Manti to say, "Whoa, wait... I shouldn't have done it and I do want to be at BYU" which is precisely what Van Noy did and is at BYU and is a monster that is getting tons of heat from the NFL and agents are sliming all around campus right now on Van Noy, Ansah, and Cody Hoffman. It's pretty bad. We've never had this many slimy types around.

    The problem with the Te'o family situation is that it all just kind of came to a head and went really sour in one weekend. Mendenhall said he only wants guys that want to be at BYU to be at BYU, and recruiting has actually changed significantly due to the fallout of that decision (that was the same time period where Jake Heaps was the #1 recruit in the country and committed to BYU as a sophomore... he was going to play with Hoffman, Ross Apo, and the Te'o's and was very enthusiastic... now Heaps is at Kansas). It's obvious that things have gotten bad at the school because of the decisions of the Te'o guys and Heaps. Apo and Hoffman are still here. We have no QB though which hurts and that's 100% on Heaps for not wanting to work. It is a repeat of the Ben Olsen situation all over. Same crap happened and he transferred to UCLA.

    Anyway, again... I will say that Manti is a good guy and I'd take him on my team in a second. I hope for nothing but the best for he and his family and I think he truly is an exemplary young man. I think going to Notre Dame made him decide who he really was and what he stood for and what he wanted his life to be. Getting out there on his own has paid big dividends and you can see it in his growth on the football field. He's an amazing kid.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


  • yea no thanks. If we trade up, lets do it in two drafts for Marquis Lee. Aaron Curry forever soured me on taking a LB super high.
    User avatar
    Missing_Clink
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2543
    Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:53 am


  • I was always under the impression Te'o was headed to USC until he changed his mind at the last second. Interesting to hear about BYU
    February 2, 2014... the day the dream was finally realized
    User avatar
    Hasselbeck
    * NET Sage *
     
    Posts: 5419
    Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 4:55 pm


Re: Trade the farm for this years heisman
Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:38 am
  • Te'o, Havili, Ngata, and JT Mapu had all committed to BYU at some point. They ended up at Notre Dame, USC, Oregon, and Tennessee respectively. There is a list quite long. BYU is an interesting place. Most of the good poly kids (Mormon or not) attend the BYU football camp. I get the word on a lot of great players very early. I became aware of Haloti Ngata when he was 14 and predicted he'd be in the NFL after watching him practice for about 5 minutes. He was that good.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


Re: Trade the farm for this years heisman
Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:49 am
  • SharkHawk wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    SharkHawk wrote:Te'o isn't known for his brilliance. I could tell you the story about his official visit to BYU (and a few others), but I won't since it's been a few years and I'll assume he's grown up some. His family isn't full of bright bulbs either. I can only imagine what would have happened had he kept his commitment to BYU and been lined up opposite of Kyle Van Noy. The plan was to have them play together for 4 years. Van Noy got arrested and redshirted a year. Te'o just did some terribly stupid things and then backed out on or had his offer rescinded (depending on who you ask). It wasn't a high point for college visits though. Hopefully he's turned the corner and makes better decisions. I'm not judging the guy. I love him and stick with him and hope he does really well every week (except when he played byu), but if he hasn't grown up a TON then he's going to have a really difficult adjustment to the NFL.

    In my view Van Noy is every bit the player Te'o is. If he had gone to BYU you wouldn't be hearing Heisman talk on Manti, but if Kyle had gone to a PAC 10 (12) school or Notre Dame I think you'd be hearing the same talk about him that you're hearing about Manti now.


    Can you shed more light on the issues for those of us interested in learning more about Te'o?


    Nah, I shouldn't say too much. I can link you to some people's "reports" on what all took place. It wasn't good for Manti and he didn't show a lot of maturity. It isn't anything that would ruin a kid's draft status I don't think. He and his cousins are just universally known for doing stupid crap (he has a cousin that committed to BYU the same weekend he did that is the BIGGEST moron on the face of the earth... seriously... he has already been kicked out of two schools and lost two full ride scholarships). I think that is one of the main reasons he wanted to go to Notre Dame... to get away from a lot of the influences around him. Hawaii is an interesting place. The culture is interesting. Samoa and Tonga and Fiji as well. They play an important part in the history of my religion. His name (Manti) actually comes from the Book of Mormon, as do many of the polynesian names. The culture is ancient and strong and amazing. Don't get me wrong here in how this comes out. But there are also problems when the culture and the way things have been done for thousands of years conflict with modern day norms, values, mores, whatever you want to call them. Sometimes the island kids get together here at BYU and the U of Utah and things just get bad fast.

    The majority of my friends and family are either black or polynesian, but I can see the reality of what goes on. There are events I've been to (like weddings) where full on gang-wars were ready to erupt. We've got a massive Island population here, and guys get together and do really really dumb stuff.

    This wasn't Manti, but several years ago a cousin signed a letter of intent and was set to enroll in school the next day. He and his friends went for a drive. One remembered he hated this guy whose house they were near (right by my home). So thy saw him on the porch and shot and killed him. 5 young men went to prison. The kid who was riding in the car got 5 years and of course lost his scholly for "aiding and abetting" and "evading". He saw it happen and just ran for it. It scared the heck out of him. On their own, none of those boys would have killed that man. Together, it was like a natural thing to drive up and blow his head off. So messed up. The young man served 3 years and went on to play JC football and got an associates degree and has done ok in life.

    Manti is one of those kids that was impressionable in high school. I think now it's more that he MAKES the impression and it's good. I think he got here and wanted to impress his cousins and did some flat out stupid crap that I think he probably really regrets now. If you were a GM though, you wouldn't think twice about it. The fact that it was BYU and he was the #1 Mormon athlete at the time put him under a huge microscope. Just like what Jabari Parker is going through right now. He's being called the next Jordan, the next Kobe, the next LeBron, etc. and he's trying to stay true to his faith and talk about his goals in life and what he wants to do, and gets a TON of pressure on him. That's what happened to Manti. He didn't handle it as well as I would have hoped, but I'm sure he would now. If I had a chance to draft him, I would. Sometimes being the "spokesperson" for a group is hard. Stanley Havili went through the same thing and so did Haloti Ngata. Both backed out on their BYU scholarships at the last moment and went to USC and U of O respectively, because they felt it would be less pressure on them from the religious standpoint, and that they'd get more chance at an NFL career (which is hooey.... good players get a chance no matter where they go... Ngata would have been a first rounder had he gone to BYU as well... going to BYU didn't hurt Dennis Pitta's draft standing).

    Anyway, I probably shouldn't have said anything at all. I just felt like piping up because I like Manti, I support him, I love his family, but a few of those family members are knuckleheads and always want to be around causing crap and I hope he stays strong and continues to stay away from it as he's done so well while in college.




    Not to rehash the past, but Ngata never really wanted to go to BYU. The only reason he committed to you guys was because of family pressure, he wanted to go to UO the entire time, it was just convincing his parents.
    CPHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2260
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:49 pm


  • Sorry, but you're not quite correct. I won't do another 14 page post about this kind of stuff, because nobody reads it and it just isn't worth it. The facts are much different. It was actually family pressure that pushed him to Oregon. Specifically an uncle who everybody in the know knows. I'm not going much further, but I will say that if it weren't for the statute of limitations that the NCAA has, then Ngata's recruitment and specifically his uncle's involvement could be part of the 19 month investigation into recruiting practices at U of O that is still ongoing. It's very Cam Newton-esque...
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


  • Oregon wouldn't need to pay a recruit to get him from BYU.
    CPHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2260
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:49 pm


  • Hmmm... swift comeback. Anyway, I know what I'm talking about. You have shown that you have no idea what you're talking about. That much is obvious from your "witty" retort. I have firsthand facts and I know the entire story from beginning to end. Does it make me special? No, of course not. I was just sharing some information with people who seem interested. Not interested? Ignore me. I do know more about recruiting of the polynesians and people in the intermountain region than the majority of scouts and scouting services though and have for 20+ years.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


  • It's not witty when you state a fact. BYU might win 1 out of 100 recruiting battles with Oregon. If what you say is fact, then I know for a fact BYU would have tipped the NCAA off a long time ago to this.
    CPHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2260
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:49 pm


Re: Trade the farm for this years heisman
Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:05 am
  • CPHawk wrote:It's not witty when you state a fact. BYU might win 1 out of 100 recruiting battles with Oregon. If what you say is fact, then I know for a fact BYU would have tipped the NCAA off a long time ago to this.



    I don't get it. You say "Oregon wouldn't need to pay a recruit to get him from BYU." and say its a fact. You then say "BYU might win 1 of 100 recruiting battles with Oregon". If BYU wins EVEN ONE recruitment battle with UO.......then it's no fact. There is no doubt that OU is a much better program than BYU is right now, but it's silly to state as fact that every prospect (especially Mormon) would choose UO over BYU if recruited by both.

    Shark has no agenda, he knows what he's talking about. FWIW, I can't stand BYU but certainly appecaiate the insider details that Shark provides about the entire inter mountain west
    region.

    And by the way Shark, I read every word.
    User avatar
    rjdriver
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1105
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:11 am
    Location: Utah


Re: Trade the farm for this years heisman
Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:48 am
  • Why not just remind the kid that vaginas exist? No need to pay him.
    User avatar
    pinksheets
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2836
    Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:47 pm
    Location: Seattle


Re: Trade the farm for this years heisman
Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:59 pm
  • CPHawk wrote:
    SuperHawks wrote:
    CPHawk wrote:Teo is only in the conversation for a heisman because he is at ND. Put him anywhere else and he wouldn't even get a vote.


    I've seen plenty of absolutely ridiculous things on here over the years but this has got to be near the top.



    Really? How many votes did Clay Mathews get or any of the other studs from SC over the years? All IMO just as good as Teo. If he played for UW he would be 12th in the vote, but thanks to the media always getting on their knees for all things ND he is now a leader for the Heisman.

    Just in the SEC there are 2-3 LB I would take over him.


    Matthews wasn't even the best LB on USC his senior year. Cushing was. Manuluaga (sp) was second. So it is not surprising that he didn't recieve any votes.

    IMO Teo is better that Kuechley, and the only reason he didn't get votes was that he was on a horrible team.

    I personally, like that defensive players are getting some heisman love. Does it help that he plays for ND. Yes, but honestly, give me one candidate that isn't playing for a great team that is getting tons of love.

    Remember, although there is mixed feelings about ND they are still undefeated. And he is the best player on that team. and one of the best defensive players in football.
    User avatar
    sainthawk29
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 334
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:15 am


  • For the record. I never said anybody paid Ngata, nor did I even insinuate it. I said it was similar to Cam Newton. I don't recall anybody ever paying him, but I do recall people working on "his behalf". This is a big gray area in the NCAA and it was the first time I saw such a situation personally and it was quite interesting to see if the NCAA would take action. They didn't. I'm not going to fight about it. But BYU has gotten several #1 recruits over the years, including Ben Olsen (who left), Jake Heaps (who left), and had Ngata commit. They were all 3 ranked as 5 star recruits and #1 in their positional group in the nation by at least 1 service.

    As I said... BYU has changed their recruiting. They want guys that want to be there. They average 10 wins a year, which isn't bad for a school that typically plays a difficult schedule, and has had to scramble in recruiting. They did have Stanford's QB leave and come to BYU (Taysom Hill) and he looks like quite a player. They also had Kaveinga leave USC to come to BYU, as well as Max Hall left ASU to attend BYU and several others. Things are weird there because of those who choose to go on missions and it sometimes opens up slots at the last minute, or they lose players who up and decide to go on missions at the last second.

    Luke Staley was a very big recruit, as was Kevin Gilbride Jr., Brandon Doman (was offered the starting QB job at Notre Dame), and I could honestly go on and on. They out recruit any other school that has the limitations and rules they have, and it is really quite an interesting place. Ngata is a good guy by the way. I've never heard anything but positive about him from day 1. His cousin Manaia Brown was also a #1 recruit in the region 2 years before, went to Nebraska, hated it and came back to BYU and played 2 seasons. By my last count, BYU has lost 2 players to Oregon that they were seriously recruiting. One was Ngata. One was another kid whose name I am forgetting who went there the year prior to Ngata.

    Both players were told that they could serve their church missions, and they both planned to. Then Bellotti told both of them that their scholarships wouldn't be waiting for them when they returned. This is precisely what happened to Taysom Hill at Stanford, Max Hall at Arizona State, and Stanley Havili at USC. In the case of Hill and Hall it backfired on their coaching staffs, because BYU had room for both. In the case of Olsen it was pretty bad, because he kept confirming he was still committed to BYU, and then came home and immediately signed with UCLA (which is ok by NCAA rules, as they are considered "re-recruitable" as they've been gone for 18+ months). So BYU is constantly flipping scholarships here and there.

    One thing about them that I respect a great deal though is that they do NOT rescind scholarships (meaning they don't dump guys and remove their scholarships by overrecruiting every year like some schools). If they give a kid a scholarship and he stays in school and works hard they leave him on it. If that means they have 4 walk-ons starting, then that's what they do. They honor their commitment to the player, even if he doesn't pan out on the field. I think that's pretty cool. Almost no schools that are typically ranked do that. Many will give a guy a scholarship his freshman year, then give it to somebody else the next year and tell him he can be a preferred walk--on.

    For full disclosure... I worked for BYU for 7 years and attended school there. I am not a graduate of the University. I graduated from Utah Valley University and an alumni and booster of that school. My school is a member of the WAC and we have no football team, but have very good basketball and baseball and track programs. We have 30,000+ students at UVU. We're about the same size as BYU. BYU is local to me, and I have many friends and contacts and family scattered throughout. I don't necessarily have the greatest things to say about BYU in general, as I left employment there on my own terms after a really stupid situation with funding. So it isn't like I'm a big cheerleader. They are the one college football program that I can keep close tabs on because of my connections and their physical proximity to my house (about 3 miles away). So I stay informed and know many former players, coaches, current staff, boosters, and those who pull strings (including the AD and the de facto leader of the former player's group who is highly involved in decision making on certain matters).
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


  • SharkHawk wrote:For the record. I never said anybody paid Ngata, nor did I even insinuate it. I said it was similar to Cam Newton. I don't recall anybody ever paying him, but I do recall people working on "his behalf". This is a big gray area in the NCAA and it was the first time I saw such a situation personally and it was quite interesting to see if the NCAA would take action. They didn't. I'm not going to fight about it. But BYU has gotten several #1 recruits over the years, including Ben Olsen (who left), Jake Heaps (who left), and had Ngata commit. They were all 3 ranked as 5 star recruits and #1 in their positional group in the nation by at least 1 service.

    As I said... BYU has changed their recruiting. They want guys that want to be there. They average 10 wins a year, which isn't bad for a school that typically plays a difficult schedule, and has had to scramble in recruiting. They did have Stanford's QB leave and come to BYU (Taysom Hill) and he looks like quite a player. They also had Kaveinga leave USC to come to BYU, as well as Max Hall left ASU to attend BYU and several others. Things are weird there because of those who choose to go on missions and it sometimes opens up slots at the last minute, or they lose players who up and decide to go on missions at the last second.

    Luke Staley was a very big recruit, as was Kevin Gilbride Jr., Brandon Doman (was offered the starting QB job at Notre Dame), and I could honestly go on and on. They out recruit any other school that has the limitations and rules they have, and it is really quite an interesting place. Ngata is a good guy by the way. I've never heard anything but positive about him from day 1. His cousin Manaia Brown was also a #1 recruit in the region 2 years before, went to Nebraska, hated it and came back to BYU and played 2 seasons. By my last count, BYU has lost 2 players to Oregon that they were seriously recruiting. One was Ngata. One was another kid whose name I am forgetting who went there the year prior to Ngata.

    Both players were told that they could serve their church missions, and they both planned to. Then Bellotti told both of them that their scholarships wouldn't be waiting for them when they returned. This is precisely what happened to Taysom Hill at Stanford, Max Hall at Arizona State, and Stanley Havili at USC. In the case of Hill and Hall it backfired on their coaching staffs, because BYU had room for both. In the case of Olsen it was pretty bad, because he kept confirming he was still committed to BYU, and then came home and immediately signed with UCLA (which is ok by NCAA rules, as they are considered "re-recruitable" as they've been gone for 18+ months). So BYU is constantly flipping scholarships here and there.

    One thing about them that I respect a great deal though is that they do NOT rescind scholarships (meaning they don't dump guys and remove their scholarships by overrecruiting every year like some schools). If they give a kid a scholarship and he stays in school and works hard they leave him on it. If that means they have 4 walk-ons starting, then that's what they do. They honor their commitment to the player, even if he doesn't pan out on the field. I think that's pretty cool. Almost no schools that are typically ranked do that. Many will give a guy a scholarship his freshman year, then give it to somebody else the next year and tell him he can be a preferred walk--on.

    For full disclosure... I worked for BYU for 7 years and attended school there. I am not a graduate of the University. I graduated from Utah Valley University and an alumni and booster of that school. My school is a member of the WAC and we have no football team, but have very good basketball and baseball and track programs. We have 30,000+ students at UVU. We're about the same size as BYU. BYU is local to me, and I have many friends and contacts and family scattered throughout. I don't necessarily have the greatest things to say about BYU in general, as I left employment there on my own terms after a really stupid situation with funding. So it isn't like I'm a big cheerleader. They are the one college football program that I can keep close tabs on because of my connections and their physical proximity to my house (about 3 miles away). So I stay informed and know many former players, coaches, current staff, boosters, and those who pull strings (including the AD and the de facto leader of the former player's group who is highly involved in decision making on certain matters).



    I apologize then I took you to mean someone was paid for Ngata. As far as someone working on helping a player pick a school, your family is 100% ok to help you find a school to play at. I remember when Pryor was the #1 QB a few years back, and he had Charlie Batch going with him everywhere. It's not a gray area, what the problem is, is UO paid a guy for tapes and recruiting info who happened to also have connections to players. If you are going to do 1 thing, you shouldn't do the other.
    CPHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2260
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:49 pm


  • Helping you decide isn't a problem. I agree. I'm speaking about gray areas such as the Cam Newton situation. Are you familiar what happened there? His situation was very strange when he left Florida, went to a JC, and then chose Auburn. The reason it was a gray area was because Cam apparently didn't receive or ask for any benefits in violation of NCAA rules. The problem was that surrogates acted on his behalf and said that they needed cash and he would attend a specific school. I can't remember all of the schools involved. I believe Mississippi State might have been one. A guy who is a friend of Cam's dad called them and said they wanted something like $50,000 and Cam would sign to play for them. They tried this on a couple of schools. Cam said all throughout the investigation that he'd never heard of such a thing and wasn't aware that it was taking place.

    The gray area? Somebody asking for pay to get a kid to sign at a school. The fact that the kid disavows it and says he has no idea what they're talking about makes it gray, because the kid didn't receive any impermissible benefits, and even if those guys did get the $50,000 then what would Cam have done wrong? Nothing really, unless he signed with the school knowing that his father was receiving money, then it is a violation (or is it?). It's very gray, and that is what Auburn claimed and it all just went away.

    It's a very very gray area and much different than Terrelle Pryor selling his jerseys and trading his equipment with autographs for goods and services, because the player is being used for the benefit of the adult without the knowledge of the kid. The NCAA is trying to figure out how to apply the rules and what rules would actually have been broken if somebody did get paid and Cam did sign at that school without his knowledge of them getting paid.

    It happens..... Reggie Bush's family got a house. Did he know? Yes. But what if he had no idea and thought his parents were paying for the home? Would that have changed the situation any? It's extremely difficult to figure out how to handle that, and that is what people are doing in order to try to bypass violation of NCAA rules. Do something, don't let the kid in on it (or the kid plays dumb) and technically the kid didn't do anything impermissible. He just blames it on corrupt adults in his life.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


  • Shark this gray area happens everyday in AAU basketball. The ncaa is just trying to get in front of it in football.

    Oh and Cam's dad asked for $200k.
    CPHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2260
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:49 pm


  • Cam's dad didn't do it... it was that other guy supposedly on behalf of Cam's dad right? Or were there two different instances of people asking for money? I know how the AAU thing works very well. My cousin the sportswriter has a cousin that played at UW and played AAU. He is from the Seattle area and ended up playing under Bob Bender. They were recruiting him from the time he was in 7th grade. The whole system is corrupt beyond corrupt.

    I had a friend that was the starting point guard at Michigan a few years back. He was picked in the early rounds in baseball by the Padres. I was on his team every year and we were neighbors. His brother was recruited heavily by North Carolina and Michael Jordan came to town to play him a visit. When we'd play city league baseball there'd be 10+ scouts sitting in the stands with radar guns. It was insane. He was 13 years old and I was 14. I guess the one good thing was that it got me on a few scouting lists because I typically played fairly well, not well enough to get drafted in the 500 rounds of the baseball draft, but I got to talk to guys from a few teams which was pretty flattering. It was amazing the guys that were just hanging out at the gym at the high school when we were just messing around shooting 3's or whatever on our own time. They always seemed to randomly know when to show up (even during quiet periods). That is why I mentioned that I was surprised how many slimy types were around watching Cody Hoffman, Ziggy Ansah, and Kyle Van Noy. I haven't seen that many of those guys in quite a few years. Those were some interesting times. Rules are broken constantly in college basketball. I think every team probably breaks enough rules to get the death penalty if the NCAA actually followed up on anything. It is just that they'd be cutting off their own nose so to speak.

    At some point the teams need to just leave the NCAA, form their own league, and be teams with agreed upon standards that are merely representatives of and sponsored by specific colleges. They could determine that players are eligible for 5 or 6 years if they wanted to and not even force them to be students. It is the NCAA that makes the restrictions. It is really what it is becoming anyway. Might as well just hurry up and get there. For example you'd have Oregon Football presented by the University of Oregon and Nike. If guys wanted to get an education while they are there then great. If not.... then they get the stipend of X amount of dollars and play out their time there hoping to get seen by an NFL team.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


  • Came to read about trading the farm and only finds NCAA scandal speculation.
    P-Rich fo life
    User avatar
    ImTheScientist
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2612
    Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:14 am


Re: Trade the farm for this years heisman
Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:36 am
  • Lol answer the question shark
    Week 1 of the preseason vs. The Tennessee Titans, I said the Seahawks were winning the superbowl...

    "Oh and by the way, Go Hawks!!!" Russel Wilson
    User avatar
    skater18000
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 504
    Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:14 pm


  • skater18000 wrote:Lol answer the question shark


    Ask a question and I'll answer it. I looked through the thread and don't see a question you asked.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am




It is currently Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:21 pm

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE NCAA FOOTBALL & PRO DRAFT FORUM ]




Information
  • Who is online