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 Post subject: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:14 am 
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Just a thought that popped into my head. I've seen RW throw a lot of balls this year where only his receivers could get them, and that's a good thing. But for instance on the ball that Turbo dropped, he had already been open and Wilson just led him. The ball could have been thrown a lot earlier there and Turbo would have had A LOT of space around him to make a move.

It seemed like the ball was thrown a little late and Turbo heard the safeties foot steps.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:21 am 
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I have thought this a few times. But, you know.... hard to complain over a well-thrown catch-able ball in the receivers hands.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:32 am 
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Game winning TD against the pats he lead Rice open.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:33 am 
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He has at times - he threw Tate open against Carolina, the 50+ yard bomb that Giacomini f**ked up with a penalty.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:52 am 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
Game winning TD against the pats he lead Rice open.


What? I watched that play develop from the end zone. You could see Rice was open by at least five yards before RW threw the ball.

Watch the replay: You'll see Rice backing up, waiting for the ball. He lead a guy who was backpedaling?

Don't get me wrong, it was a nice pass, but the majority of the play was Rice getting so wide open.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:54 am 
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Not sure I agree with that one Lymon. Let's go to the tape ... back in a little while.

Rice bends toward the sideline at the 30, pulling the safety over, he sticks his foot in the ground and cuts toward the middle at the 25. Wilson releases the ball with Rice at the 20, even with the safety. Rice is in stride looking back at the 5, catches the ball 1 yd into the endzone.

He wasn't back peddling but he wasn't running underneath it either. I wouldn't say he had to wait for it but it probably is fair to say he wasn't thrown open. More like both saw the route development and the ball was delivered in time.

If he tries throwing the ball before the break, does the safety bite or stay square. That would be throwing with anticipation that I am not sure would have worked in this instance. Who knows?

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Last edited by drdiags on Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:17 pm 
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SacHawk2.0 wrote:
Just a thought that popped into my head. I've seen RW throw a lot of balls this year where only his receivers could get them, and that's a good thing. But for instance on the ball that Turbo dropped, he had already been open and Wilson just led him. The ball could have been thrown a lot earlier there and Turbo would have had A LOT of space around him to make a move.

It seemed like the ball was thrown a little late and Turbo heard the safeties foot steps.

Thoughts?


I disagree with this example. If he throws the ball earlier he A. runs the risk that Willis (one of the best and most agile linebackers in the NFL) gets his hips around faster and is in prime position for an interception or B. that Willis jams Turbin (he was still within five yards from the line of scrimmage so this would have been completely legal) and ends up nowhere near the intended receiver. That play was made possible because Willis was slow to react on the play.

My opinion (and I'm not a Wilson homer) was that RW played that perfectly. That is 100% on Turbin.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:30 pm 
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The intent is not to place blame, only to look at possible areas of growth. Wilson could have thrown it earlier. Turbin had already gotten open.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:51 pm 
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This has been one of this problem areas. One instance was the pass he threw to Baldwin that ended up being pick - that was thrown to the wrong hip. Another was the dropped pass to Lynch that was also thrown behind him. He hasn't shown that he can hit receivers in stride unless it's a vertical shot down field such as a post or seam route. This is a timing issue - he should improve here.

But in the meantime, if I'm a defensive coordinator, I'm plugging the passing lanes over the middle and forcing Wilson to hit the shorter routes underneath or to the sidelines. This is basically what the 9ers effectively did during the second half of last week.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:24 pm 
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To me the best example of this is RW to BE in the end zone last game. BE was not open, but he put the ball perfectly where only BE could get it, and BE DID get it. He just couldn't bring it all the way in. Throwing a player open doesn't always have to involve an actual catch. Just sayin.

On Moore's drop, I felt he was covered very well, but that was an obvious drop even in tight coverage beacuse of the throw. He looked open to me, but it was mostly because of the throw. In fact, I think that's why Moore dropped it. He didn't feel open.

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:27 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:06 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:12 pm 
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I think Wilson is still figuring these things out. I notice his ball placement tends to vary each game, he's learning by trial and error. On his deep throws he is actually very good at leading his receivers, on his short throws he lacks in this regard.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:18 am 
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LymonHawk wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
Game winning TD against the pats he lead Rice open.


What? I watched that play develop from the end zone. You could see Rice was open by at least five yards before RW threw the ball.

Watch the replay: You'll see Rice backing up, waiting for the ball. He lead a guy who was backpedaling?

Don't get me wrong, it was a nice pass, but the majority of the play was Rice getting so wide open.



Depends upon how you look at it. I would call it throwing the WR open even though I credit Rice with geting open initially. Wilson kept him open by throwing to a spot where Rice had to run underneath the ball. Anytime you catch someone in stride like that, it keeps the WR open. He certainly didn't throw him back into coverage :stirthepot:


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:27 am 
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Spin Doctor wrote:
I think Wilson is still figuring these things out. I notice his ball placement tends to vary each game, he's learning by trial and error. On his deep throws he is actually very good at leading his receivers, on his short throws he lacks in this regard.


Between him and our not-so-hot in the slot WR's (minus Baldwin). Who would you say lacks most this regard? We have the short route-challenged Golden Tate, Rice who's best left to the deeper routes, and Zach Miller who is pass blocking half of the time. We just don't have many (or really any) Engram-like good hands, good route running people. The short game requires establishing rythm and to do that we need to have catches made with credible frequency.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:43 am 
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SacHawk2.0 wrote:
Just a thought that popped into my head. I've seen RW throw a lot of balls this year where only his receivers could get them, and that's a good thing. But for instance on the ball that Turbo dropped, he had already been open and Wilson just led him. The ball could have been thrown a lot earlier there and Turbo would have had A LOT of space around him to make a move.

It seemed like the ball was thrown a little late and Turbo heard the safeties foot steps.

Thoughts?


even if the ball was thrown a bit late, and he may have heard safety footsteps, but they were coming from behind him so that should not have mattered, if was a beautiful ball, that hit him softly in the hands and he just flat out dropped it, period.. if you ask turbin , he would say that one was on him..... grid kid players make that catch..

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:11 am 
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I haven't watched the replay to this game but, is it possible that Turbin wasn't Wlison's first option?

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 Post subject: Re: Wilson leads his WR's, but is he throwing them open?
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:20 pm 
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SacHawk2.0 wrote:


It seemed like the ball was thrown a little late and Turbo heard the safeties foot steps.



Disagree with this. It makes sense for a receiver to "hear footsteps" when he's going across the middle and he has the potential to get popped from the front or the side. On the play down the sideline there was no one in front of him, the coverage was behind him so I don't think this analogy fits.


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