I still only see one thing wrong with this team

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  • They can never play 4 quarters of football in one game.

    They fly half the game and crash the second. I don't pretend to know the answer but its been up front the entire season.

    Actually last season too. Even with the drops if they had played with the same enthusiam and execution in the second half they did in the first they would have won going away.
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  • The Radish wrote:They can never play 4 quarters of football in one game.
    They fly half the game and crash the second. I don't pretend to know the answer but its been up front the entire season.

    Actually last season too. Even with the drops if they had played with the same enthusiam and execution in the second half they did in the first they would have won going away.


    The refrain of every middle of the road team....in any sport. Just replace quarters with innings, periods, sets, frames, halves.
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  • Youth. 1 rookie LB, 1 sophomore LB. 2 'sophomore' CBs. 1 rookie DE. Rookie QB and an offensive line that gets mix 'n matched more than a six pack. The list goes on. We have a lot of growing up to do. (Whereas a team like the 49ers is in their window because they're mostly all on the tail end of their prime years.)
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  • It's youth.
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  • FlyingGreg wrote:It's youth.


    Yup.

    Not to at all look past this season in any practical sense...but if you let your mind travel to the next couple, few years this team is gonna be special. Even more special if they draft well and sprinkle in some FA's.
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  • canucklhead wrote:
    FlyingGreg wrote:It's youth.


    Yup.

    Not to at all look past this season in any practical sense...but if you let your mind travel to the next couple, few years this team is gonna be special. Even more special if they draft well and sprinkle in some FA's.


    Agreed. This looks more and more like a team that has outstanding talent and will scare a lot of opponents this year while challenging for a playoff spot. I think next season (once this team is seasoned) is when our window really opens - especially with another patented John Schneider draft adding a couple more pieces.
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  • Agree with PP. Young teams find ways to lose, often by doing something poorly that they had done well recently (dropped passes). Consistency takes time to develop...
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  • I, too, see only one thing wrong with this team, and IMO it's not youth. It's our complete and utter inability to stop the short pass. We were doing "great" until Hairball started exploiting this weakness and then we tanked.

    Think back to the NE game -- Brady threw, what?, about 500 passes. But nearly 80% were between 5 - 12 yards. Think about practically any game where we looked bad and you'll see buttloads of these dink-and-dunk passes.

    Gore did a great job, no doubt about it, but I think a lot of his success was because we had to respect the short pass, even from someone like Smith.

    I'm not an X's and O's kind of guy, just an avid, long-term observer. Can somebody please tell me, other than the pass-rush-pressure (of which we have none IMO, Irvin or not) how is a team supposed to defend these passes?
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  • From our ability to not score points we looked like the Mariners last night.



    :les:
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  • tdlabrie wrote:I, too, see only one thing wrong with this team, and IMO it's not youth. It's our complete and utter inability to stop the short pass. We were doing "great" until Hairball started exploiting this weakness and then we tanked.

    Think back to the NE game -- Brady threw, what?, about 500 passes. But nearly 80% were between 5 - 12 yards. Think about practically any game where we looked bad and you'll see buttloads of these dink-and-dunk passes.

    Gore did a great job, no doubt about it, but I think a lot of his success was because we had to respect the short pass, even from someone like Smith.

    I'm not an X's and O's kind of guy, just an avid, long-term observer. Can somebody please tell me, other than the pass-rush-pressure (of which we have none IMO, Irvin or not) how is a team supposed to defend these passes?


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  • I cant understand why we don't have a scheme to keep someone in the middle to take away these maddening dink/dunk/check down/slant crap that NE and SF roasted us on.
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  • MLOhawks wrote:I cant understand why we don't have a scheme to keep someone in the middle to take away these maddening dink/dunk/check down/slant crap that NE and SF roasted us on.



    In the 4-3 defensive scheme, it's up to your LB's to cover backs out of the backfield. For some reason last night K.J. and Wagner thought it was more important to help cover Davis downfield, than to hold their position for checkdowns.

    The question is why didn't Bradley recognize this and tell them to stop it after the 4th or 5th time?
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  • The Radish wrote:They fly half the game and crash the second. I don't pretend to know the answer but its been up front the entire season.


    Actually, up until the Carolina game, everyone was complaining how we'd limp out of the gates and then turn it on in the SECOND half.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    The Radish wrote:They fly half the game and crash the second. I don't pretend to know the answer but its been up front the entire season.


    Actually, up until the Carolina game, everyone was complaining how we'd limp out of the gates and then turn it on in the SECOND half.



    I was trying to compare one half to the other, not necessarily 1st or 2nd.

    And the Dallas game they flew like eagles in the first half, like turkeys in the 2nd. Just happened they were so far ahead it didn't matter.

    Same exact thing with Pats, they just woke up for the last 5 minutes of the game that time like good teams should.

    :les:
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  • The Radish wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    The Radish wrote:They fly half the game and crash the second. I don't pretend to know the answer but its been up front the entire season.


    Actually, up until the Carolina game, everyone was complaining how we'd limp out of the gates and then turn it on in the SECOND half.



    I was trying to compare one half to the other, not necessarily 1st or 2nd.

    And the Dallas game they flew like eagles in the first half, like turkeys in the 2nd. Just happened they were so far ahead it didn't matter.

    Same exact thing with Pats, they just woke up for the last 5 minutes of the game that time like good teams should.

    :les:


    Come on Radish, we had 2 drives of 80+ yards in the second half of the dallas game. Those were the final nails in the Cowboys' coffin.

    Anyway, I don't see this as our weakness. I think that a couple of our shortcomings get exploited. In this case, I think they trapped our DL and our rookie ML well, they freaking kicked Breno's butt handily once they knew we had to throw, and they kicked our butts in special teams (I hate Ginn. Don't know why he has a spell on us, but he does.)
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  • I do not agree with the youth angle. Seven of our rookies play on defense, where we have been good enough to be 7-0 this season if our passing offense was just middle of the road. I do think it is a big deal that Wilson is a rookie, but many of the arguments in his favor have been that for a rookie he has good poise and film study habits.

    The rest of our passing offense no longer gets a pass due to inexperience. Rice, Miller, Moore, Edwards, Obo, McQuistan and Giacomini are veterans. Tate, McCoy, Okung, and Unger are third year players that should now be entering the prime of their careers. Baldwin, Carpenter and Moffitt are the only second year players and saw a lot of playing time in their rookie seasons.

    To whatever degree you think Wilson was not responsible for our dismal passing offense last night, you should not be making a youth excuse since he is the only one that merits it.
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  • I think youth really shows up on road games,....facing adversity is best served with game experience
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  • I agree that youth is an issue, but as an extension of that I have a feeling that this team lacks discipline that every young squad needs. I like Pete's rah rah and have fun style, and love this team, but they lack a certain discipline that would compensate somewhat for their youth. That's on the coaches.
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  • Hamhawk wrote:I think youth really shows up on road games,....facing adversity is best served with game experience


    The offense is most affected for road games. Dealing with crowd noise and a jacked up defense are the biggest hurdles to winning on the road.

    This is why it's important to not make mistakes, and have an experienced QB that's been there before and can lead an offense. We didn't have either of these things........which equals loss.
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  • AgentDib wrote:I do not agree with the youth angle. Seven of our rookies play on defense, where we have been good enough to be 7-0 this season if our passing offense was just middle of the road. I do think it is a big deal that Wilson is a rookie, but many of the arguments in his favor have been that for a rookie he has good poise and film study habits.

    The rest of our passing offense no longer gets a pass due to inexperience. Rice, Miller, Moore, Edwards, Obo, McQuistan and Giacomini are veterans. Tate, McCoy, Okung, and Unger are third year players that should now be entering the prime of their careers. Baldwin, Carpenter and Moffitt are the only second year players and saw a lot of playing time in their rookie seasons.

    To whatever degree you think Wilson was not responsible for our dismal passing offense last night, you should not be making a youth excuse since he is the only one that merits it.


    This is a good point and one that needs to be echoed, but the offensive playbook and the combination of these guys are young and require getting used to. Use "new" instead of "young" if it helps.
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  • Your right Sam the part of the team that flew like eagles in the first half of the Dallas game was our special teams. Got us all those points early while our offense was being offensive.

    :les:
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Hamhawk wrote:I think youth really shows up on road games,....facing adversity is best served with game experience


    The offense is most affected for road games. Dealing with crowd noise and a jacked up defense are the biggest hurdles to winning on the road.

    This is why it's important to not make mistakes, and have an experienced QB that's been there before and can lead an offense. We didn't have either of these things........which equals loss.


    We don't have that on the roster. (yet) It also doesn't hurt to catch what's thrown to you either. ;)
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  • The Radish wrote:From our ability to not score points we looked like the Mariners last night.



    :les:

    yea they often get there asses beat 13-6 dont they lol
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  • TLD0550 wrote:
    The Radish wrote:From our ability to not score points we looked like the Mariners last night.



    :les:

    yea they often get there asses beat 13-6 dont they lol



    No not really. What I meant was the Ms have a terrible offense also and frequently score 1 or 2 runs which is about like the Seahawks getting 2 field goals from inside the 20.

    :roll:
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  • Playing four quarters of your best football every game is I think an unrealistic expectation. The 49ers and Cardinals are in the same boat- they have about 1-2 quarters of poor play every game, but they still win because they keep the damage under control when they are playing off. Teams like the Patriots and Packers rarely string together 4 good quarters, but it's okay because if they give up 10, 14, or even 17 unanswered, they have the offense to get them back in the game.

    The Seahawks right now are a team on the precipice of greatness, but they are not great yet. That's why those stretches of ineffectiveness seem to hurt them more than teams like SF.

    I think it really just boils down to the offense needing to gel and grow. Russell Wilson is not the problem, and yet he is the problem. He is playing well for a rookie, but he's still a rookie and it's held this team back. It's just something we'll have to deal with, and hopefully he enjoys the same kind of second season bounce that Ponder and Dalton are enjoying this year.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Hamhawk wrote:I think youth really shows up on road games,....facing adversity is best served with game experience


    The offense is most affected for road games. Dealing with crowd noise and a jacked up defense are the biggest hurdles to winning on the road.

    This is why it's important to not make mistakes, and have an experienced QB that's been there before and can lead an offense. We didn't have either of these things........which equals loss.



    Dissagree with your post Sgt Largent, Russell Wilson IS a leader IMHO and he put those passes right where they needed to be.
    He did throw an unexcusable int into triple coverage yet I have to say that Tate , Turbin, Moore absolutely HAVE to make thoses catches in the first half. If they wouldve done their jobs we probably go into the 2nd half with a lead.

    The whole complexion of the game changes.

    Think of it like this.... what if Marty McFly doesnt get into the DeLorean and go to that high school dance and help his dad pork his mom? Yeah, thats right. Biff rapes McFlys mom and history as we know it is altered.

    Don't let my man Russell Wilson become McFly's mom .
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    MLOhawks wrote:I cant understand why we don't have a scheme to keep someone in the middle to take away these maddening dink/dunk/check down/slant crap that NE and SF roasted us on.



    In the 4-3 defensive scheme, it's up to your LB's to cover backs out of the backfield. For some reason last night K.J. and Wagner thought it was more important to help cover Davis downfield, than to hold their position for checkdowns.

    The question is why didn't Bradley recognize this and tell them to stop it after the 4th or 5th time?


    Idk it seemed like they were having the LBs play the intermediate 7 yard zone coverage. But their diagnosing of who is coming out of the back field and if they were going to be open and where they were going seemed to be a few seconds slow because the 49ers were bringing all 3 guys out of those full house sets up through the middle and then splitting them off underneath. one middle, one right and another going left damn near every time.
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  • The Radish wrote:From our ability to not score points we looked like the Mariners last night.



    :les:


    No reason to be mean.

    True though as it as.

    We can't drop passes like those the other day, just don't attempt that many per game so when they go incomplete you'll really notice them more.
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  • kearly wrote:Playing four quarters of your best football every game is I think an unrealistic expectation. The 49ers and Cardinals are in the same boat- they have about 1-2 quarters of poor play every game, but they still win because they keep the damage under control when they are playing off. Teams like the Patriots and Packers rarely string together 4 good quarters, but it's okay because if they give up 10, 14, or even 17 unanswered, they have the offense to get them back in the game.

    The Seahawks right now are a team on the precipice of greatness, but they are not great yet. That's why those stretches of ineffectiveness seem to hurt them more than teams like SF.

    I think it really just boils down to the offense needing to gel and grow. Russell Wilson is not the problem, and yet he is the problem. He is playing well for a rookie, but he's still a rookie and it's held this team back. It's just something we'll have to deal with, and hopefully he enjoys the same kind of second season bounce that Ponder and Dalton are enjoying this year.


    How true. Most people keep forgetting that the first go around is always the toughest. There's no substitute for actually playing the games and being in the critical scenarios Wilson was in.
    Even though Flynn isn't a rookie he's pretty much in the same boat as Wilson knowing he's not played against all the defenses we will have faced. Look how vastly improved Ponder has been for the Vikes this year and he has less ceiling than Russell Wilson.
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  • Sarlacc83 wrote:Youth. 1 rookie LB, 1 sophomore LB. 2 'sophomore' CBs. 1 rookie DE. Rookie QB and an offensive line that gets mix 'n matched more than a six pack. The list goes on. We have a lot of growing up to do. (Whereas a team like the 49ers is in their window because they're mostly all on the tail end of their prime years.)



    My thoughts exactly. Considering the youth on this team, don't be shocked if we continue this schizo play..up and down, and possibly ending the year trending downwards despite increased experience and improved continuity. This is an emotional bunch and emotion is the mother of fatigue.

    I just made that last part up. Emotion might just be the cousin of fatigue. Unsure.
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  • If our D wasn't on the field so much, The other team wouldn't have so much time to find our weakness!
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