Niners fan here: things i noticed last night

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  • 1. Alex Smith is, always has been, and always will be garbage.

    2. Russell Wilson is garbage right now. Not sure what he will become in the future. He has alot of good qualities. However, his short height looks like it might be a problem. He may have problems with seeing the field and finding open receivers, especially the short routes. He seems to be good at the long passes because its easier to see down the field with longer routes.

    3. Seahawks and Niners are competing for the title of Worst Wide Receiver Corps in the NFL. Before last night, i thought Niners had a stranglehold on that title going back several years. Looks like the Seahawks are trying to overtake them this year.

    4. Gore is a solid back but the real credit goes to the Niners offensive line. Those guys monsters in the run game. Especially Staley, Iupati, and Davs.

    5. Really impressed with the Seahawks secondary. Sherman, Browner, Chancellor and Thomas are probly the best secondary group in the league. They completely shut down the Niners receivers and tight ends.

    6. I am very impressed with Marshawn Lynch. That guy is probly the scariest RB in the league right now. He's probly the only guy that is capable of being productive regardless of how well the O-Line plays. Most RB's are dependent on their O-Line to open holes.

    7. Looks like the Niners may have exposed a weakness in the Seahawks defense. Just pound the ball down the gut and run straight at them. I dont think the Seahawks were prepared for that. The Seahawks defense has tons of speed and can cover the sidelines very well. But that speed doesnt help as much against bruising, downhill running games like the Niners have.

    8. I dont think either of these teams will go very far in the playoffs, if they make the playoffs. The offenses are just way too flawed.
    Last edited by Carhanu21 on Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Iupati is one of the most physically impressive offensive linemen I've ever seen. Our defensive line is solid and Iupati had his way all game long.
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  • Carhanu21 wrote:1. Alex Smith is, always has been, and always will be garbage.

    2. Russell Wilson is garbage right now. Not sure what he will become in the future. He has alot of good qualities. However, his short height looks like it might be a problem. He may have problems with seeing the field and finding open receivers, especially the short routes. He seems to be good at the long passes because its easier to see down the field with longer routes.

    3. Seahawks and Niners are competing for the title of Worst Wide Receiver Corps in the NFL. Before last night, i thought Niners had a stranglehold on that title going back several years. Looks like the Seahawks are trying to overtake them this year.

    4. Gore is a solid back but the real credit goes to the Niners offensive line. Those guys monsters in the run game. Especially Staley, Iupati, and Davs.

    5. Really impressed with the Seahawks secondary. Sherman, Browner, Chancellor and Thomas are probly the best secondary group in the league. They completely shut down the Niners receivers and tight ends.

    6. I am very impressed with Marshawn Lynch. That guy is probly the scariest RB in the league right now. He's probly the only guy that is capable of being productive regardless of how well the O-Line plays. Most RB's are dependent on their O-Line to open holes.



    2. Wilson is not garbage. He's a rookie who's gonna make rookie mistakes. Height not a problem if you ask me. He was successful in college with just as big if not bigger oline. If he still plays like this after 4 or 5 seasons then we could call him garbage.
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  • Carhanu21 wrote:
    7. Looks like the Niners may have exposed a weakness in the Seahawks defense. Just pound the ball down the gut and run straight at them. I dont think the Seahawks were prepared for that. The Seahawks defense has tons of speed and can cover the sidelines very well. But that speed doesnt help as much against bruising, downhill running games like the Niners have..


    I think what SF did was a result of;

    1. Having REALLY good O-Lineman like Iapati and Staley
    2. The Hawks D-Line and LB's not having good gap coverage on those big plays up the middle, i.e. out of gap position.

    #2 is fixable after film study.......and #1 99% of the league doesn't possess the lineman to downhill block like SF does.
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  • 1. I don't know about garbage. Is he elite? No, but maybe average? But an average QB, with that D and running game can be dangerous.
    2. He actually looked sharp to me last night, the problem was the rest of the team got a case of the dropsies. Not sure what that was about. A little more time in the pocket would help, our right tackle getting embarrassed didn't help either. But Wilson wasn't the issue.
    3. I don't know, there is some talent there, not sure what the issue was last night. That's the worst I've seen them play this season.
    4. That o-line is impressive. Haven't seen anyone run on the Hawks D like that in the last 2 years.
    5. Legion of Boom!!
    6. I wish we could get our passing going to help they guy.
    7. Maybe, but I honestly don't think 99% of the teams in this league can take advantage of that weakness. Plus Wagner will get better. He had a rough game. Our D isn't only built for speed, our D line is huge and built to stop the run, Branch, Mebane and Red. That's 959 pounds of run defense.
    8. Our's is flawed for the moment, but we have a rookie QB, he is improving. And will continue to improve, I'm still in the camp that Wilson is something special.
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  • Carhanu21 wrote:1. Alex Smith is, always has been, and always will be garbage.

    2. Russell Wilson is garbage right now. Not sure what he will become in the future. He has alot of good qualities. However, his short height looks like it might be a problem. He may have problems with seeing the field and finding open receivers, especially the short routes. He seems to be good at the long passes because its easier to see down the field with longer routes.

    3. Seahawks and Niners are competing for the title of Worst Wide Receiver Corps in the NFL. Before last night, i thought Niners had a stranglehold on that title going back several years. Looks like the Seahawks are trying to overtake them this year.

    4. Gore is a solid back but the real credit goes to the Niners offensive line. Those guys monsters in the run game. Especially Staley, Iupati, and Davs.

    5. Really impressed with the Seahawks secondary. Sherman, Browner, Chancellor and Thomas are probly the best secondary group in the league. They completely shut down the Niners receivers and tight ends.

    6. I am very impressed with Marshawn Lynch. That guy is probly the scariest RB in the league right now. He's probly the only guy that is capable of being productive regardless of how well the O-Line plays. Most RB's are dependent on their O-Line to open holes.

    7. Looks like the Niners may have exposed a weakness in the Seahawks defense. Just pound the ball down the gut and run straight at them. I dont think the Seahawks were prepared for that. The Seahawks defense has tons of speed and can cover the sidelines very well. But that speed doesnt help as much against bruising, downhill running games like the Niners have.

    8. I dont think either of these teams will go very far in the playoffs, if they make the playoffs. The offenses are just way too flawed.


    I had hope for this post until I read "Russell Wilson is garbage".

    Garbage? Really?

    Ignorant.
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  • All-in-all, not a bad assessment from a 49ers fan but to call Wilson garbage was just plain silly. Had his receivers been there for him last night that would have been the last word you would be using to describe Wilson. He's a rookie, and he will continue to make rookie mistakes but he has something very special to him which won't be fully realized - even by many Seahawks fans - probably for another few years but the kid has "IT".
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  • FlyingGreg wrote:
    I had hope for this post until I read "Russell Wilson is garbage".

    Garbage? Really?

    Ignorant.



    #23 rated QB in the league with a 79.5 passer rating.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... backRating

    Not Matt Cassell garbage, but close. But I know, I know, he's a rookie..........just like the #3 rated QB.
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  • FlyingGreg wrote:
    Carhanu21 wrote:1. Alex Smith is, always has been, and always will be garbage.

    2. Russell Wilson is garbage right now. Not sure what he will become in the future. He has alot of good qualities. However, his short height looks like it might be a problem. He may have problems with seeing the field and finding open receivers, especially the short routes. He seems to be good at the long passes because its easier to see down the field with longer routes.

    3. Seahawks and Niners are competing for the title of Worst Wide Receiver Corps in the NFL. Before last night, i thought Niners had a stranglehold on that title going back several years. Looks like the Seahawks are trying to overtake them this year.

    4. Gore is a solid back but the real credit goes to the Niners offensive line. Those guys monsters in the run game. Especially Staley, Iupati, and Davs.

    5. Really impressed with the Seahawks secondary. Sherman, Browner, Chancellor and Thomas are probly the best secondary group in the league. They completely shut down the Niners receivers and tight ends.

    6. I am very impressed with Marshawn Lynch. That guy is probly the scariest RB in the league right now. He's probly the only guy that is capable of being productive regardless of how well the O-Line plays. Most RB's are dependent on their O-Line to open holes.

    7. Looks like the Niners may have exposed a weakness in the Seahawks defense. Just pound the ball down the gut and run straight at them. I dont think the Seahawks were prepared for that. The Seahawks defense has tons of speed and can cover the sidelines very well. But that speed doesnt help as much against bruising, downhill running games like the Niners have.

    8. I dont think either of these teams will go very far in the playoffs, if they make the playoffs. The offenses are just way too flawed.


    I had hope for this post until I read "Russell Wilson is garbage".

    Garbage? Really?

    Ignorant.


    Thanks for the detailed feedback with supporting evidence. I did give credit to Wilson for being pretty good at the deep pass. He threw a couple nice deep passes that were dropped by the receivers.

    Maybe "garbage" is an overstatement. Sorry if I upset you. You must be his Russell Wilson's brother or something....
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  • Agreed nearly 100%...You have the best run blocking O line out there. I'd not get down on 9er receivers with these DB's on them and ole' cross-eyed Smith throwing the ball. Now we know Chancellor and Thomas can line up on scrimmage next game :)

    I'm also concerned RW may not see the short routes, but are other QB's looking over the 6'5" - 6'8" line? I tend to think it's more about experience and proper pre snap read. He put the ball in our receivers ear hole more than once, and they gave up on him more than once. This kid is going to be scary good...We are working on the new Nike 3" lift shoes!

    That was a GREAT game!
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    FlyingGreg wrote:
    I had hope for this post until I read "Russell Wilson is garbage".

    Garbage? Really?

    Ignorant.



    #23 rated QB in the league with a 79.5 passer rating.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... backRating

    Not Matt Cassell garbage, but close. But I know, I know, he's a rookie..........just like the #3 rated QB.


    Flawed logic is what I see in this post. So you're comparing a rookie that was #2 pick in the draft to one who was a 3rd rounder? You expect the 3rd rounder to be in the top 5 and because he isn't, you consider him close to garbage? Wow.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    FlyingGreg wrote:
    I had hope for this post until I read "Russell Wilson is garbage".

    Garbage? Really?

    Ignorant.



    #23 rated QB in the league with a 79.5 passer rating.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... backRating

    Not Matt Cassell garbage, but close. But I know, I know, he's a rookie..........just like the #3 rated QB.


    How many top 10 defenses has that #3 rated QB played? Wilson's played 4 thus far (whether you measure by scoring, total yardage, or passing).

    Griffin's played exactly 1 of the top passing defenses, and he lost that game, putting up his 2nd worst passer rating of the season. Griffin's played 3 of the top scoring defenses, losing two of those games. He's played 2 teams in the top 10 total yardage defenses, going 1-1. It's pretty incredible... when rookie QBs play easier defenses, they play better. When they play tougher defenses, they play worse.

    And that's not to mention that one big thing Washington did is essentially adopt Baylor's offensive playbook for Griffin. That's not the way Carroll and Co. have handled Wilson. Big difference in philosophies.

    But don't let those facts keep you from continuing your Flynn campaign.
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  • Way to ignore the 4-5 beautifully-thrown passes that were dropped by members of our offense for absolutely no reason last night in terms of your comment on Wilson; and I'm only talking about dropped passes in the FIRST half.
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  • #2 point from the OP is an ignorant post regurgitating what he/she hears on ESPN.
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  • hawkfan68 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    FlyingGreg wrote:
    I had hope for this post until I read "Russell Wilson is garbage".

    Garbage? Really?

    Ignorant.



    #23 rated QB in the league with a 79.5 passer rating.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... backRating

    Not Matt Cassell garbage, but close. But I know, I know, he's a rookie..........just like the #3 rated QB.


    Flawed logic is what I see in this post. So you're comparing a rookie that was #2 pick in the draft to one who was a 3rd rounder? You expect the 3rd rounder to be in the top 5 and because he isn't, you consider him close to garbage? Wow.


    In my original post, I said Russell Wilson is garbage RIGHT NOW. I then said i wasnt sure what he will be in the future. Every time people criticize Wilson, people get angry and use the "he is only a rookie" defense. We all understand that Wilson is a rookie and has a chance to improve in the future. In the salary-capped NFL with guys like Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, and RGII succeeding as rookies, the only thing that matters is what can you accomplish RIGHT NOW...or at least over the course of the current season.

    It doesnt matter what Wilson will be 3 years from now. He may not even be on the team 3 years from now. Or the team might be really bad due to injuries and salary cap. You never know what will happen in future years. All you can do is focus on winning right now with what you have.

    Also, its not even guaranteed that guys will get better in future years. Sometimes, they dont improve at all or even get worse (see Cam Newton in his second year).
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  • T-Sizzle wrote:#2 point from the OP is an ignorant post regurgitating what he/she hears on ESPN.


    It was from observations on the game.

    If this was the only time I had seen Wilson play all year, I wouldn't have a favorable opinion of him either. This wasn't a great game for him, drops or not. Not that I was expecting a third round rookie to dominate the best defense in the league or anything. Would have been nice though.
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  • volsunghawk wrote:
    Griffin's played exactly 1 of the top passing defenses, and he lost that game, putting up his 2nd worst passer rating of the season. Griffin's played 3 of the top scoring defenses, losing two of those games. He's played 2 teams in the top 10 total yardage defenses, going 1-1. It's pretty incredible... when rookie QBs play easier defenses, they play better. When they play tougher defenses, they play worse.


    Yeah and three of our four wins have come against poor passing defenses.

    Stats don't lie, #23 QB is not good enough if your ambition is to make the playoffs..........ESPECIALLY as a wild card team that has to go on the road. I know it's not all on Wilson, our offense has to play better. But right now on October 19th? This is not a playoff caliber passing offense. In fact, it's a very very poor passing offense.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:
    Griffin's played exactly 1 of the top passing defenses, and he lost that game, putting up his 2nd worst passer rating of the season. Griffin's played 3 of the top scoring defenses, losing two of those games. He's played 2 teams in the top 10 total yardage defenses, going 1-1. It's pretty incredible... when rookie QBs play easier defenses, they play better. When they play tougher defenses, they play worse.


    Yeah and three of our four wins have come against poor passing defenses.

    Stats don't lie, #23 QB is not good enough if your ambition is to make the playoffs..........ESPECIALLY as a wild card team that has to go on the road. I know it's not all on Wilson, our offense has to play better. But right now on October 19th? This is not a playoff caliber passing offense. In fact, it's a very very poor passing offense.


    So Wilson has a 79.5 passer rating, right?

    Last year's playoff teams featured QBs with a 80.9 rating (Flacco), 80.4 rating (Dalton), and a 72.9 rating (Tebow). Flacco's team made it to the AFCCG, even with him putting up 8 games that season with under an 80 rating. But his team had a strong running game and great D. If only we had that in Seattle!
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  • endzorn wrote:Iupati is one of the most physically impressive offensive linemen I've ever seen. Our defensive line is solid and Iupati had his way all game long.

    I wanted the Hawks to draft this guy so badly.................9ers o-line is very, very good.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:#23 rated QB in the league with a 79.5 passer rating.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... backRating

    Not Matt Cassell garbage, but close. But I know, I know, he's a rookie..........just like the #3 rated QB.


    OK, this chart has Drew Brees as #13 and Matt Stafford 1 spot below Russell Wilson.
    I am sorry, but I believe my own eyes when I see these players dominate time after time after time, and these statistics are completely meaningless when it comes to real on-the-field performance.
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  • volsunghawk wrote:
    Last year's playoff teams featured QBs with a 80.9 rating (Flacco), 80.4 rating (Dalton), and a 72.9 rating (Tebow). Flacco's team made it to the AFCCG, even with him putting up 8 games that season with under an 80 rating. But his team had a strong running game and great D. If only we had that in Seattle!


    Thanks for bringing up Dalton, perfect rookie comparison. Squeaks into the playoffs, then goes on the road and gets drilled.

    So sure, if we can get a home playoff game, we have a chance to be a one and done like the Broncos. But if our ambitions are higher (and they should be with this defense), then just being poor to mediocre as a QB and offense is not cutting it. Sorry.
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  • To say Wilson is garbage right now after last night's game, says, "I only looked at numbers and didn't actually watch the game".

    We are so close to getting over that hump, and once we do, look out.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:
    Last year's playoff teams featured QBs with a 80.9 rating (Flacco), 80.4 rating (Dalton), and a 72.9 rating (Tebow). Flacco's team made it to the AFCCG, even with him putting up 8 games that season with under an 80 rating. But his team had a strong running game and great D. If only we had that in Seattle!


    Thanks for bringing up Dalton, perfect rookie comparison. Squeaks into the playoffs, then goes on the road and gets drilled.

    So sure, if we can get a home playoff game, we have a chance to be a one and done like the Broncos. But if our ambitions are higher (and they should be with this defense), then just being poor to mediocre as a QB and offense is not cutting it. Sorry.


    I suppose Matt Flynn is going to be brought up next? If not, then the discussion is pointless because there's no one else on our team. If so, I'm out, because you're on something illegal.
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  • KARAVARUS wrote:
    I suppose Matt Flynn is going to be brought up next? If not, then the discussion is pointless because there's no one else on our team. If so, I'm out, because you're on something illegal.


    Flynn is always going to be brought up as long as our passing offense is terrible. Get used to it.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:
    Last year's playoff teams featured QBs with a 80.9 rating (Flacco), 80.4 rating (Dalton), and a 72.9 rating (Tebow). Flacco's team made it to the AFCCG, even with him putting up 8 games that season with under an 80 rating. But his team had a strong running game and great D. If only we had that in Seattle!


    Thanks for bringing up Dalton, perfect rookie comparison. Squeaks into the playoffs, then goes on the road and gets drilled.

    So sure, if we can get a home playoff game, we have a chance to be a one and done like the Broncos. But if our ambitions are higher (and they should be with this defense), then just being poor to mediocre as a QB and offense is not cutting it. Sorry.


    Why on earth do people think that somehow Seattle's rebuild is totally complete and finished with the exception of the QB position? All of a sudden, we've got every single damned piece in place for a SB run, but are being held down by the QB? Are you kidding me?

    This team is STILL being built. Schneider said himself he had a 4-year plan (in which we're about 2.5 years through). We've still got significant questions on the O-line and even bigger questions at WR. It's not just the QB. And you don't just say, "We've got a badass D now! We should totally be in the SB!" You have to have the right people in place on both sides of the ball at EVERY position. And Seattle's still in the process of getting that done.

    I don't understand how people can go from watching our team struggle through a massive turnover in personnel in 2010, continue that turnover while finding an identity as a team with a strong run game and defense in 2011 - both while posting losing records - and then suddenly think the team should be a contender and that it would be if they'd just put in that inexperienced backup who posted gaudy numbers once with a SB offense around him.

    That's delusion.
    Last edited by volsunghawk on Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Carhanu21 wrote:
    FlyingGreg wrote:
    Carhanu21 wrote:1. Alex Smith is, always has been, and always will be garbage.

    2. Russell Wilson is garbage right now. Not sure what he will become in the future. He has alot of good qualities. However, his short height looks like it might be a problem. He may have problems with seeing the field and finding open receivers, especially the short routes. He seems to be good at the long passes because its easier to see down the field with longer routes.

    3. Seahawks and Niners are competing for the title of Worst Wide Receiver Corps in the NFL. Before last night, i thought Niners had a stranglehold on that title going back several years. Looks like the Seahawks are trying to overtake them this year.

    4. Gore is a solid back but the real credit goes to the Niners offensive line. Those guys monsters in the run game. Especially Staley, Iupati, and Davs.

    5. Really impressed with the Seahawks secondary. Sherman, Browner, Chancellor and Thomas are probly the best secondary group in the league. They completely shut down the Niners receivers and tight ends.

    6. I am very impressed with Marshawn Lynch. That guy is probly the scariest RB in the league right now. He's probly the only guy that is capable of being productive regardless of how well the O-Line plays. Most RB's are dependent on their O-Line to open holes.

    7. Looks like the Niners may have exposed a weakness in the Seahawks defense. Just pound the ball down the gut and run straight at them. I dont think the Seahawks were prepared for that. The Seahawks defense has tons of speed and can cover the sidelines very well. But that speed doesnt help as much against bruising, downhill running games like the Niners have.

    8. I dont think either of these teams will go very far in the playoffs, if they make the playoffs. The offenses are just way too flawed.


    I had hope for this post until I read "Russell Wilson is garbage".

    Garbage? Really?

    Ignorant.


    Thanks for the detailed feedback with supporting evidence. I did give credit to Wilson for being pretty good at the deep pass. He threw a couple nice deep passes that were dropped by the receivers.

    Maybe "garbage" is an overstatement. Sorry if I upset you. You must be his Russell Wilson's brother or something....


    Your comment didn't rate detailed feedback, and yes it was an egregious overstatement. Especially when you followed it up with the lame height comment. Who are you, Mel Kiper? Was Wilson's height a factor in five dropped passes that you conveniently left out? Maybe Wilson should loft the ball so much he has a chance to run down and make the catch for our WRs...?

    Stop fussing...if you are going to come into a Seahawks forum and call Wilson 'garbage', put your big boy pants on and expect some push back.

    Wilson has wins against Dallas, Green Bay and New England under his belt in his first 7 career starts, playing with admittedly inferior play makers at WR.

    At least you recognize Alex Smith is garbage.
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  • OMG. The OP had so many good things to say, but the seething sucking chest wound of the loss gives everyone the justification to only say the "Wilson is garbage" point as the only thing worth noting. The remainder of the post is actually a pretty good launching point for a lot of discussion. You are right, OP - both teams are flawed offensively - had the O been clicking and not dropping passes, Seattle stands a great chance of winning last night. They didn't - they are not good enough to overcome mistakes on the road. Wilson may have had some to do with it - but clearly not the root cause for the loss.

    Oh - and as far as big boy panties goes - I ask most of the egregious responders to a single item in a fairly decent OP to put theirs on. Ridiculous and embarrassing Seahawks fans.
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  • Your comment didn't rate detailed feedback, and yes it was an egregious overstatement. Especially when you followed it up with the lame height comment. Who are you, Mel Kiper? Was Wilson's height a factor in five dropped passes that you conveniently left out? Maybe Wilson should loft the ball so much he has a chance to run down and make the catch for our WRs...?

    Stop fussing...if you are going to come into a Seahawks forum and call Wilson 'garbage', put your big boy pants on and expect some push back.

    Wilson has wins against Dallas, Green Bay and New England under his belt in his first 7 career starts, playing with admittedly inferior play makers at WR.

    At least you recognize Alex Smith is garbage.[/quote]

    Russell Wilson is not "garbage". I admit it was an overstatement. But I cant call him "good" either. RIGHT NOW, I would characterize RW as an average qb that needs ALOT of support from his teammates in order to be successful. Kinda like Alex Smith. Except RW has more room to improve than Alice Smith.

    The two big questions are: What is Wilson's true potential? and Will he reach that potential?.....We will see.
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  • volsunghawk wrote:
    Why on earth do people think that somehow Seattle's rebuild is totally complete and finished with the exception of the QB position?


    No team is "totally rebuilt." We just happen to have a team that's ready to compete for a Superbowl, if not for poor QB and passing offense play. So that's what everyone's complaining about.

    I guess it comes down to who's wiling to wait 2-3 more years to see if Wilson improves, and who wants to win now. Personally I don't want to wait because we have all the other parts in place.
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  • LOL, it isn't surprising a 49ers fan doesn't know how to analyze a QB. Years of nothing will do that to you
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:
    Why on earth do people think that somehow Seattle's rebuild is totally complete and finished with the exception of the QB position?


    No team is "totally rebuilt." We just happen to have a team that's ready to compete for a Superbowl, if not for poor QB and passing offense play. So that's what everyone's complaining about.

    I guess it comes down to who's wiling to wait 2-3 more years to see if Wilson improves, and who wants to win now. Personally I don't want to wait because we have all the other parts in place.


    This part, I do not believe is true, frankly. I think this team has a strong shot at the playoffs, sure, and anything can happen there. But there are issues with the WR corps, with the health and cohesiveness of the O-line, with the QB position, with the TE position, and the pass rush still disappears at times. That's a lot more that needs to be addressed other than "poor QB play" and claiming otherwise is just unrealistic.

    This part, on the other hand, is completely ridiculous. We've seen Wilson improve over the course of a handful of games so far, yet you're saying that we have to be willing to wait 2-3 years. Holy hell, people like you aren't even willing to give him 8 damned GAMES to show improvement, and you ignore it when he does.
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  • volsunghawk wrote:
    This part, on the other hand, is completely ridiculous. We've seen Wilson improve over the course of a handful of games so far, yet you're saying that we have to be willing to wait 2-3 years. Holy hell, people like you aren't even willing to give him 8 damned GAMES to show improvement, and you ignore it when he does.


    122 yards with a 38.7 passer rating is improving?

    Sorry, but I stand by the fact that Carroll screwed up the QB battle. Flynn should have been named the starter, and Wilson should have done what 3rd round QB picks do, which is sit, learn the system and league, then in a year or two they're ready to hit the ground running with no dumbing down of the playbook or conservative game planning because he might screw up.

    .......and I will stand by this opinion until Wilson can proficiently and consistently move this offense. So far it hasn't happened consistently enough, even in his "good" games.
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  • I wish people would stop looking at stats and qbr and watch football games
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  • Sgt - I'm aware Flynn will be brought up while our offense is down, but that doesn't mean he should be. I'm opening the door for you to say it. Do you think we're over the hump if we make a change at QB? Do you think everything we need to get there is already on our roster?

    nspor - As far as not mentioning the correct things in the OP. Who cares? Not bringing those things up is in many ways an admittance of agreement. Seriously, why would anyone be embarassed about objecting to an obvious false statement? Some people EVEN went as far as to say he was right on with much of his assessment, but that one comment stood out as untrue. And as far as I am concerned, to say as much, indicates the OP didn't even watch the game. Obviously that's not the case, but that's how incorrect of a statement that was.

    OP - I'm not saying Russell is a God (he went back to the chargers), but garbage just isn't true. Even for this game. I'm not going to use the "he's a rookie" excuse either, because I don't think an excuse even needs to be made to begin with. He honestly did enough to win, which is all our system requires him to do. Others let us down in this game. Truth.
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  • Never mind, you opened it yourself...lol
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:
    This part, on the other hand, is completely ridiculous. We've seen Wilson improve over the course of a handful of games so far, yet you're saying that we have to be willing to wait 2-3 years. Holy hell, people like you aren't even willing to give him 8 damned GAMES to show improvement, and you ignore it when he does.


    122 yards with a 38.7 passer rating is improving?



    From Hawkblogger, who was firmly in the "start Flynn" camp up through the first several games of the season:

    Hawkblogger wrote:He will also get praise and credit where he earns it. He earned a ton of it last night. That was the best 9/23, 38.7 rating performance you are likely to see this season. Pointing the finger anywhere near his direction for the loss is ludicrous. He was a rookie quarterback, facing the most intimidating defense in the NFL on the road with minimal prep, and he came out on fire. His whole first half was impressive. He gave his receivers and running backs and tight ends numerous chances to make big plays. His first half numbers were 6/13 103 yds 7.9 YPA and a 73.6 passer rating. There were at least three straight drops in that half, two deep balls that could have been caught, and a few throwaways. In other words, he was nearly perfect. He entered what was likely to be his biggest challenge of the regular season, and was nearly perfect out of the gates. Impressive.

    This was not the Wilson of a few weeks ago that looked confused and bailed from the pocket for no reason. He was patient, and made some courageous decisions. There is no doubt he still locked onto certain reads and missed open receivers. He has not "arrived" as some wanted to believe after his stirring performance against the Pats. He has, however, showed far greater growth the last three weeks than he had the first four. That is encouraging.


    http://www.hawkblogger.com/2012/10/the- ... ll-to.html

    As I noted before, even when Wilson demonstrates that the game is slowing down for him and that he's improving quickly in all parts of his game, you will NEVER admit it because you think it should have been Flynn's job in the first place.
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  • KARAVARUS wrote:Sgt - I'm aware Flynn will be brought up while our offense is down, but that doesn't mean he should be. I'm opening the door for you to say it. Do you think we're over the hump if we make a change at QB? Do you think everything we need to get there is already on our roster.


    I think there was a correct conventional way to deal with our QB "competition".........and Carroll mishandled it.

    Flynn is the more experienced QB that we paid good money to get. He may not be as dynamic, or have the bigger upside than Wilson. But for what we need, which is a QB that can manage games, go through progressions quickly and accurately and read defenses....Flynn is the better of the two RIGHT NOW.

    There was no reason to rush Wilson along with this kind of team. We have a competent QB on the roster. What was wrong with finding out if Flynn could play first before going to Wilson? Now we're suffering through rookie growing pains for no reason other than Carroll's ego.
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  • ** Removed **
    Last edited by nsport on Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:
    Why on earth do people think that somehow Seattle's rebuild is totally complete and finished with the exception of the QB position?


    No team is "totally rebuilt." We just happen to have a team that's ready to compete for a Superbowl, if not for poor QB and passing offense play. So that's what everyone's complaining about.

    I guess it comes down to who's wiling to wait 2-3 more years to see if Wilson improves, and who wants to win now. Personally I don't want to wait because we have all the other parts in place.

    Compete for the Superbowl? What are you smoking? This team is 10-6 maybe 11-5 AT BEST. We are at the level of possible wildcard. Superbowl? what a steaming load of doo.

    1. WR corps needs a serious upgrade
    2. RG needs a serious upgrade
    3. We need a good cover corner for slot receivers

    And this is just off the top of my head.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    KARAVARUS wrote:Sgt - I'm aware Flynn will be brought up while our offense is down, but that doesn't mean he should be. I'm opening the door for you to say it. Do you think we're over the hump if we make a change at QB? Do you think everything we need to get there is already on our roster.


    I think there was a correct conventional way to deal with our QB "competition".........and Carroll mishandled it.

    Flynn is the more experienced QB that we paid good money to get. He may not be as dynamic, or have the bigger upside than Wilson. But for what we need, which is a QB that can manage games, go through progressions quickly and accurately and read defenses....Flynn is the better of the two RIGHT NOW.

    There was no reason to rush Wilson along with this kind of team. We have a competent QB on the roster. What was wrong with finding out if Flynn could play first before going to Wilson? Now we're suffering through rookie growing pains for no reason other than Carroll's ego.

    Or your ridiculous impatience actually. Flynn couldn't even beat him when nothing counted what makes you think he would do anything in a game that isn't meaningless or garbage time or without elite level WR's ala Green Bay? Please do tell, I need a laugh.
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  • Wilson's play was actually eerily comparable to Smith's last night. Spectacular ball placement on several throws, but not all of them. Each with a forehead-slapping interception. Still overcoming issues of hesitation. Doesn't like to step up in the pocket when D-line can get interior pressure. Not being helped by receivers.

    Wilson, however, has as many games under his belt as Smith has seasons.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    KARAVARUS wrote:
    I suppose Matt Flynn is going to be brought up next? If not, then the discussion is pointless because there's no one else on our team. If so, I'm out, because you're on something illegal.


    Flynn is always going to be brought up as long as our passing offense is terrible. Get used to it.


    Exactly! Wilson has one good game against a terrible D and hes the QB of the future lol. Then reality slaps you in the face and excuses kick back in. The O-line did pretty good last night, and a few of those droped balls were covered very well. When you throw to a covered reciever that happens sometimes, recievers shouldnt be forced to fight for the ball on ever play.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    KARAVARUS wrote:Sgt - I'm aware Flynn will be brought up while our offense is down, but that doesn't mean he should be. I'm opening the door for you to say it. Do you think we're over the hump if we make a change at QB? Do you think everything we need to get there is already on our roster.


    I think there was a correct conventional way to deal with our QB "competition".........and Carroll mishandled it.

    Flynn is the more experienced QB that we paid good money to get. He may not be as dynamic, or have the bigger upside than Wilson. But for what we need, which is a QB that can manage games, go through progressions quickly and accurately and read defenses....Flynn is the better of the two RIGHT NOW.

    There was no reason to rush Wilson along with this kind of team. We have a competent QB on the roster. What was wrong with finding out if Flynn could play first before going to Wilson? Now we're suffering through rookie growing pains for no reason other than Carroll's ego.



    FLYNN PLAYED TWO GAMES IN HIS CAREER AND WAS A BACK UP BEFORE THAT. WILSON PLAYED MUCH MORE THAN FLYNN IN COLLEGE. WHAT 'EXPERIENCE' DID FLYNN HAVE ON HIM THAN 2 STARTS? I don't care who he was the backup for, or what preparations he did every week in the NFL, it doesn't mean he is deserving of starting. The money argument doesn't matter because we are paying RW nothing as our starter, while Flynn is barely getting starting QB pay. Just because he got a contract doesn't mean 'he should be correctly given the starting job.' Why aren't there tons of quarterbacks in the NFL starting who sat behind Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Eli, etc. The only thing Flynn supporters have to stand on is 'what ifs,' and he threw that shot away by playing ultra, ultra conservative in preseason. I could say if Josh Portis was starting we would be 6-0 because he would be playing lights out, but it doesn't matter, because we wont ever know.

    Where were you last week complaining about RW? Maybe he looked great because our WR actually made plays, not dropping 5 or 6 passes in an offense that doesn't want to pass the ball if we don't have to. If those catches are made in the first half last night, we REALISTICALLY have a big lead going into halftime and RW is around 200 yards at that point. I said it during the game, it should not have been a 6-3 ballgame at halftime, we were dominating every aspect of the game. Then, we went into a shell focusing on just running the ball and he was 1-5 going into the final drive, one of which was a dropped first down on third down by Tate into their territory. I guess you assume Flynn would have made a better throw to Tate that instead of hitting him in the hands, would have stuck into his helmet.

    We haven't been 'suffering' with him since the week 1 game where he looked like a rookie. He took huge strides in the Carolina game, won the game for us against New England, and dominated the first half while getting no help from the receivers. Blame the playcalling in the second half if you are upset with his statistics. I can't name too many quarterbacks who would put up huge numbers with 5 attempts.
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  • SeaChase wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    KARAVARUS wrote:
    I suppose Matt Flynn is going to be brought up next? If not, then the discussion is pointless because there's no one else on our team. If so, I'm out, because you're on something illegal.


    Flynn is always going to be brought up as long as our passing offense is terrible. Get used to it.


    Exactly! Wilson has one good game against a terrible D and hes the QB of the future lol. Then reality slaps you in the face and excuses kick back in. The O-line did pretty good last night, and a few of those droped balls were covered very well. When you throw to a covered reciever that happens sometimes, recievers shouldnt be forced to fight for the ball on ever play.


    Speaking of slaps in the face, I'm slapping mine trying to believe if I just read this right. He was already viewed as a more viable option for QBOTF by our coaching staff, which has proven to be pretty good at evaluating talent. I know you will all say, "Yeah, on the defensive side" but it's not true. Our offense has talent. Besides, if Flynn is your guy, they went out and got him too, so the not able to find talent on offense is neutralized.

    I think you are forgetting our biggest margin of loss is only 7 points. That's one score, last i checked. Yes, we owe the defense for keeping us in games, but that's what a team is. We are not getting beaten by a lot regularly, and we very easily could be undefeated. IA few things have gone the other way, but I honestly don't think those things rest at the feet of Russell Wilson. And those balls to covered WR's??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Those were thrown PERFECTLY and the defender didn't even get a finger on it. They were just dropped. The Edwards pass in the EZ was pretty good too, just back luck BE brought it down on the defender's helmet.
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  • Carhanu21 wrote:In my original post, I said Russell Wilson is garbage RIGHT NOW. I then said i wasnt sure what he will be in the future. Every time people criticize Wilson, people get angry and use the "he is only a rookie" defense. We all understand that Wilson is a rookie and has a chance to improve in the future. In the salary-capped NFL with guys like Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, and RGII succeeding as rookies, the only thing that matters is what can you accomplish RIGHT NOW...or at least over the course of the current season.

    It doesnt matter what Wilson will be 3 years from now. He may not even be on the team 3 years from now. Or the team might be really bad due to injuries and salary cap. You never know what will happen in future years. All you can do is focus on winning right now with what you have.

    Also, its not even guaranteed that guys will get better in future years. Sometimes, they dont improve at all or even get worse (see Cam Newton in his second year).

    It's a complete waste of time to try to explain LOGIC to the Wilson fanboyz. They are in complete kneejerk defensive mode the moment they hear any criticism at all. Anyone who doesn't wear rose colored glasses is a "hater". I know, people around here actually put me on the ignore list because I think it was a bad idea to start a rookie and spend a whole year letting him learn when THIS year we have a Super Bowl worthy defense and an elite rushing attack.

    Who knows when Marshawn Lynch will wear down, what the salary cap will do to the defense, what injuries we may get plagued with in the future? All we know is Wilson is playing like a rookie - yes, we all GET THAT - but THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Flynn has shown in his only two starts that he's beyond that phase of QB development. Is Flynn elite? Who knows? Probably not or Wilson wouldn't have taken his job. But he's better than TJack and so far this season, Wilson hasn't been.

    Yesterdays game, however, isn't Wilson's fault. Too many dropped passes. But until Wilson proves he can see the short field and make short and intermediate passes, he's not going to succeed in the NFL. Period.
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  • mistaowen wrote:
    Where were you last week complaining about RW? Maybe he looked great because our WR actually made plays, not dropping 5 or 6 passes in an offense that doesn't want to pass the ball if we don't have to. If those catches are made in the first half last night, we REALISTICALLY have a big lead going into halftime and RW is around 200 yards at that point.


    I was here last week. I was the one who said while Wilson's final stats looked good, he still was poor for the entire 2nd and 3rd quarters. It took some major breakdowns on the Pat's horrible defensive backfield for us to pull out the win.

    What was the difference between last week and this? SF has good DB's that knocked down or intercepted Wilson's downfield passes. The Pat's DB's couldn't do that, resulting all those awesome long passes completed.

    What was also similar between this week and last? Wilson still having a hard time reading defenses and making accurate throws short and intermediate.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Flynn is the more experienced QB
    that we paid good money to get.


    Flynn has 2 career starts and Wilson has 7 fwiw.
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  • SeaChase wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    KARAVARUS wrote:
    I suppose Matt Flynn is going to be brought up next? If not, then the discussion is pointless because there's no one else on our team. If so, I'm out, because you're on something illegal.


    Flynn is always going to be brought up as long as our passing offense is terrible. Get used to it.


    Exactly! Wilson has one good game against a terrible D and hes the QB of the future lol. Then reality slaps you in the face and excuses kick back in. The O-line did pretty good last night, and a few of those droped balls were covered very well. When you throw to a covered reciever that happens sometimes, recievers shouldnt be forced to fight for the ball on ever play.


    Get out of here. Now you are just arguing for the sake of arguing because you like Flynn. Turbin, Tate, Moore, and Marshawn all had very easy catches. Braylon's was tough and if Willis didn't have his helmet directly under the ball would have been a touchdown. That couldn't have been a more perfectly thrown ball; up and away from Willis who was under and to the other side of the safety who was over top.

    And receivers always are forced to fight for the ball, they are being covered by the best defensive players in the world, so that is a bunch of garbage as well. How many times during the Brady/Moss season did Brady lob it up into double coverage for Moss to make a play? How many of Brees's throws are backshoulder while the defender is completely blanketing the receiver? What do you call all the 50 yard bombs Stafford threw to Calvin Johnson in good coverage? The window is much, much smaller in the NFL than college, it isn't going to be wide open crossing routes and 500 yard games every week. If that's what you want to see, go watch arena football before it gets shut down.
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  • SalishHawkFan wrote:
    Carhanu21 wrote:In my original post, I said Russell Wilson is garbage RIGHT NOW. I then said i wasnt sure what he will be in the future. Every time people criticize Wilson, people get angry and use the "he is only a rookie" defense. We all understand that Wilson is a rookie and has a chance to improve in the future. In the salary-capped NFL with guys like Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, and RGII succeeding as rookies, the only thing that matters is what can you accomplish RIGHT NOW...or at least over the course of the current season.

    It doesnt matter what Wilson will be 3 years from now. He may not even be on the team 3 years from now. Or the team might be really bad due to injuries and salary cap. You never know what will happen in future years. All you can do is focus on winning right now with what you have.

    Also, its not even guaranteed that guys will get better in future years. Sometimes, they dont improve at all or even get worse (see Cam Newton in his second year).



    It's a complete waste of time to try to explain LOGIC to the Wilson fanboyz. They are in complete kneejerk defensive mode the moment they hear any criticism at all. Anyone who doesn't wear rose colored glasses is a "hater". I know, people around here actually put me on the ignore list because I think it was a bad idea to start a rookie and spend a whole year letting him learn when THIS year we have a Super Bowl worthy defense and an elite rushing attack.

    Who knows when Marshawn Lynch will wear down, what the salary cap will do to the defense, what injuries we may get plagued with in the future? All we know is Wilson is playing like a rookie - yes, we all GET THAT - but THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Flynn has shown in his only two starts that he's beyond that phase of QB development. Is Flynn elite? Who knows? Probably not or Wilson wouldn't have taken his job. But he's better than TJack and so far this season, Wilson hasn't been.

    Yesterdays game, however, isn't Wilson's fault. Too many dropped passes. But until Wilson proves he can see the short field and make short and intermediate passes, he's not going to succeed in the NFL. Period.


    ^^This
    Im not saying Wilson will never succeed, but I think Now is the time to win and starting a rookie wasnt the best choice now.
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  • KCHawkGirl wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    volsunghawk wrote:
    Why on earth do people think that somehow Seattle's rebuild is totally complete and finished with the exception of the QB position?


    No team is "totally rebuilt." We just happen to have a team that's ready to compete for a Superbowl, if not for poor QB and passing offense play. So that's what everyone's complaining about.

    I guess it comes down to who's wiling to wait 2-3 more years to see if Wilson improves, and who wants to win now. Personally I don't want to wait because we have all the other parts in place.

    Compete for the Superbowl? What are you smoking? This team is 10-6 maybe 11-5 AT BEST. We are at the level of possible wildcard. Superbowl? what a steaming load of doo.

    1. WR corps needs a serious upgrade
    2. RG needs a serious upgrade
    3. We need a good cover corner for slot receivers

    And this is just off the top of my head.


    For me, RG is ok. It's Giacomini that needs to go. While he has been better the last two games, I still see him as undisciplined.

    In regards to the nickel corner, Walter Thurmond III is due back soon, IIRC next week? He will represent a serious upgrade to the Nickel defense, IMO. Remember he was the replacement for Trufant originally outside, before he got hurt and Sherman became a star.

    The OL needs depth, we need another mid-level T that can step in and play on both sides. Moffitt is fine, or McQuistan, either are acceptable. Iupati would have been a hell of a get, IMO, and I am jealous that the 9ers got him instead.

    Also remember in regards to the qb position and its unorthodox handling- PC&JS have not built this team in any phase the "conventional" way. The defense is built from the back forward. The corners and SS are ridiculously sized for their spots. Other than Okung and Carpenter (who IMO was a failure of a pick) the line is built essentially from spare parts. We do not have the 1st round pedigree of the 9ers in our OL, and yet, the are effective and productive. Can it be improved? Of course, but with the ingredients at hand, we should not be quite so critical.

    That said, I do not understand the vitriol for the plan that PC&JS have for RW. It's unconventional. It's kinda our thing. Get with the program.

    Thirdly, we all are looking towards the draft at this point with one eye towards WR, and the pressure will be for us to select the top choice available. We aren't getting Calvin Johnson part deux, so get rid of that idea. We will be drafting late enough in the draft that it will be more likely a selection along the OL or DL, and our WRs selection will come in the 2nd or 3rd rd, possibly later. Remember that PC&JS have a plan, and we are not quite 75% there.

    I'd say for ~75% we are in pretty damn good shape.
    Last edited by Seahawkscrazy on Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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