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 Post subject: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:46 am 
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Hi guys, I lurk here all the time but have only posted once. There's nothing I could add that someone here hasn't covered already. One thing has been bugging me about the Pats' last drive yesterday, and I apologize if this has been covered and I missed it.
On the sack, the Pats got called for illegal motion and the Hawks declined the penalty. Once the ball was reset, shouldn't the clock have started since it was a declined penalty? I am fairly sure the Pats were out of timeouts at that point and the clock they have on the TV stayed at 52 seconds. I was losing my mind yelling at the tv. Am I wrong on that rule or shouldn't the clock have been running?

I tried asking Pereira on twiiter but apparrenly he was only watching our game long enough to complain that they got the interference wrong on the Edwards TD and that it should have been offensive interference :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:57 am 
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Yeah something went wrong there, i was thinking the same thing. I think they should have either started the clock after it was spotted or had a 10 sec run off, or maybe both.


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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:01 am 
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Ok so it wasn't just me. I instantly started having flashbacks to Baltimore 03.


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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:11 am 
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HawkRiderFan wrote:
Ok so it wasn't just me. I instantly started having flashbacks to Baltimore 03.


I still don't know whether Tom White was being a legit bumbling old man or a pretend bumbling old man like Don Altobello in Godfather III...


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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:32 am 
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No, of course not...it's the regular refs and they never make mistakes, especially in a Seahawks game.

Ok, that was complete BS I just wrote.

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:34 am 
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The refs were terrible. I was screaming for that as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:35 am 
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Did Pereira really say that about Braylon's touchdown? What an idiot.

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:12 am 
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getnasty wrote:
Yeah something went wrong there, i was thinking the same thing. I think they should have either started the clock after it was spotted or had a 10 sec run off, or maybe both.



The official behind motioned for the clock to start running but they didn't do it.

:les:

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 Post subject: The Brady sack with 1:03 remaining.
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:58 am 
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I may have missed something in the game, but I'm curious why the clock wasn't started after his sack. There was a flag on the play that was on the Patriots and Seattle declined it. The Pats had no timeouts and the sack on Brady stood, but the clock was not started. This had no impact on the outcome of the game, but I was curious if there's a rule I'm unaware of here. Shouldn't there have been at minimum a 10 second run off, or the clock start running?


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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:10 pm 
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There was also some BS on the clock at the end of the first half. They added 3 seconds at Belicheck's demand that should NOT have been added (at least according to my DVR watching of the play several times). That left a second on the clock that would have allowed the Patsies to kick a field goal if it weren't for the correct grounding call (thank goodness for that). I was surprised the announcers didn't catch it.... all they caught was Fouts saying "there should be 2 seconds on the clock!" I found it quite interesting that a former QB didn't even know the grounding rule. My wife is screaming "grounding grounding and the clock should be gone!" and I'm yelling "GROUNDING GROUNDING TEN SECOND RUN OFF!". Fouts is stroking his luscious beard and calling the field goal already. Goober.

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:11 pm 
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Yep, everyone in my section was yelling for this as well. The refs were terrible as always. Fortunately it didn't bite us in the ass.

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:36 pm 
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SharkHawk wrote:
There was also some BS on the clock at the end of the first half. They added 3 seconds at Belicheck's demand that should NOT have been added (at least according to my DVR watching of the play several times). That left a second on the clock that would have allowed the Patsies to kick a field goal if it weren't for the correct grounding call (thank goodness for that). I was surprised the announcers didn't catch it.... all they caught was Fouts saying "there should be 2 seconds on the clock!" I found it quite interesting that a former QB didn't even know the grounding rule. My wife is screaming "grounding grounding and the clock should be gone!" and I'm yelling "GROUNDING GROUNDING TEN SECOND RUN OFF!". Fouts is stroking his luscious beard and calling the field goal already. Goober.



Hey Jon, one thing wrong with your analogy. Fouts is now clean shaven. hahahahaha

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:41 pm 
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HawkRiderFan wrote:
I tried asking Pereira on twiiter but apparrenly he was only watching our game long enough to complain that they got the interference wrong on the Edwards TD and that it should have been offensive interference :roll:

Damn replacement refs! Always screwing things up.

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:44 pm 
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I saw that replay about 20 times while having coffee at a sports bar this morning and damned if I can see offensive pushing off there.

I can see the guy trying to push Brayton out of bounds tho.

:les:

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:45 pm 
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The Radish wrote:
SharkHawk wrote:
There was also some BS on the clock at the end of the first half. They added 3 seconds at Belicheck's demand that should NOT have been added (at least according to my DVR watching of the play several times). That left a second on the clock that would have allowed the Patsies to kick a field goal if it weren't for the correct grounding call (thank goodness for that). I was surprised the announcers didn't catch it.... all they caught was Fouts saying "there should be 2 seconds on the clock!" I found it quite interesting that a former QB didn't even know the grounding rule. My wife is screaming "grounding grounding and the clock should be gone!" and I'm yelling "GROUNDING GROUNDING TEN SECOND RUN OFF!". Fouts is stroking his luscious beard and calling the field goal already. Goober.



Hey Jon, one thing wrong with your analogy. Fouts is now clean shaven. hahahahaha


Seriously? I swear he was sporting his Merlin Olsen halloween costume yesterday. I think the beard is back. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:47 pm 
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Showed them in the booth a couple of times and I didn't hardly recognize him with no hair.

lol

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:16 pm 
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1st half - as I heard it on my TV they debated the 1 sec until they saw the flag then they were all good with the run-off. They also pointed out what a great job by the officials to call intentional grounding on that play. You see it ALL the time at that place of the field pass being thrown to the ground or the 800 section and it was a great call by the officials

On the sack - yeah clock should start when flag is waived if the result of the prior play is a live play as it was in this case


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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:51 am 
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SharkHawk wrote:
There was also some BS on the clock at the end of the first half. They added 3 seconds at Belicheck's demand that should NOT have been added (at least according to my DVR watching of the play several times).

It's a good thing that Belicheck got those three seconds. If he hadn't the Patriots would have simply tried to kick a field goal rather than make another attempt at the end zone. Sometimes cheating simply bites you on the butt.


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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:58 am 
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I was pissed about this too. I quickly forgot about it when Welker got stuffed on 4th down though.

The clock absolutely should have been running.

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:21 am 
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Apparently if you are Braylon Edwards and the Seahawks you don't have a right to come back to the ball and catch a touchdown pass.

I am just thankful that we didn't draw Mike Martz as a commentator. He makes me insane. I literally hate listening to him more than anything else in the world. He had me incensed in the Rams game within about a minute of the broadcast.


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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:10 am 
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Not only that, but at the time I watched it I was looking at the replay and I didn't see any penalty in the first place. It looked to me like the sole reason for throwing that flag was to stop the clock. So this morning I went back and watched the play on DVR. I was right. There was no penalty. The flag didn't come out until Brady started to get sacked and the moment he started to go down, the flag flew out. If it had been a legit penalty call, that flag would have went out long before.

The ref ONLY threw that flag in order to stop the clock for the Pats. It was no coincidence therefore, that the refs "mistakenly" didn't run off the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:09 pm 
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I noticed that too. Hope the Hawks send that into the league office. Baghdad Mike Pereira equals a POS, but then again most already knew that.

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Last edited by Sports Hernia on Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:39 pm 
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I didn't notice it in the game, but I now see what is happening on DVR. Also, the Edwards TD wasn't even close to OPI, Edwards didn't do ANYTHING to that DB. I don't even think the DB did enough to warrant a flag, but he did make enough contact with the ball in the air. From 124 it looked like the DB was guilty of PI. Not so much on DVR.

It kind of looks like OPI from a distance on TV because of the separation, but that was all Edwards coming back. Of course that didn't stop the commentators later from mentioning it as OPI. Most of them haven't let go of the Tate catch. Evans? Just a solid prick.

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:10 pm 
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BlueTalon wrote:
HawkRiderFan wrote:
I tried asking Pereira on twiiter but apparrenly he was only watching our game long enough to complain that they got the interference wrong on the Edwards TD and that it should have been offensive interference :roll:

Damn replacement refs! Always screwing things up.


I hate Mike Perriera. I want to punch that guy in the face every time I see his stupid face. He reminds me of Mel Kiper whom I also want to punch in the face.


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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:45 pm 
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haha,that just funny

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:28 pm 
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NFL rule reference:
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/7_2012_Game_Timing.pdf

Scrimmage Down
Article 2 Following any timeout (3-36), the game clock shall be started on a scrimmage down when the ball is next snapped,
except in the following situations:
[...]
(f) If the game clock is stopped after a down in which there was a foul by either team, following enforcement or
declination of a penalty, the game clock will start as if the foul had not occurred, except that the clock will start on the
snap if:

(1) the foul occurs after the two-minute warning of the first half;
(2) the foul occurs inside the last five minutes of the second half; or
(3) a specific rule prescribes otherwise.

(i.e. They got it right.)


Last edited by LusciousJames on Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:33 pm 
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Yeah we were screaming at that one too... unbelieveable how they didn't start the clock. Wasn't a 10 sec run off cause there was like 1 03 left on the game clock, has to be under 1 min

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:00 pm 
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jfurdell wrote:
NFL rule reference:
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/7_2012_Game_Timing.pdf

Scrimmage Down
Article 2 Following any timeout (3-36), the game clock shall be started on a scrimmage down when the ball is next snapped,
except in the following situations:
[...]
(f) If the game clock is stopped after a down in which there was a foul by either team, following enforcement or
declination of a penalty, the game clock will start as if the foul had not occurred, except that the clock will start on the
snap if:

(1) the foul occurs after the two-minute warning of the first half;
(2) the foul occurs inside the last five minutes of the second half; or
(3) a specific rule prescribes otherwise.

(i.e. They got it right.)

Well, I get what you're saying about they don't start the clock, but look at the play again and there is no penalty. No second man went in motion. And the flag comes out the moment Brady starts to go down. It's pretty obvious to me that the only reason the ref threw that flag was to have an excuse to stop the clock and buy NE more time. It's not like we Seahawk fans haven't seen this kind of manipulation by the refs over and over for decades now. That's why I immediately suspected what was going on and that's why I wasn't surprised when I went back on DVR and saw it was so obvious.

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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:34 pm 
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SalishHawkFan wrote:
Well, I get what you're saying about they don't start the clock, but look at the play again and there is no penalty. No second man went in motion. And the flag comes out the moment Brady starts to go down. It's pretty obvious to me that the only reason the ref threw that flag was to have an excuse to stop the clock and buy NE more time. It's not like we Seahawk fans haven't seen this kind of manipulation by the refs over and over for decades now. That's why I immediately suspected what was going on and that's why I wasn't surprised when I went back on DVR and saw it was so obvious.


I also have it DVR'd and watched it again. The penalty was for illegal motion; the player in motion #84 was moving forward at the snap (hey look at that, it's Branch). There are two flags; the first one comes from the wing official on the near side of the field (the side Branch was on) and it's in the air before Brady was pressured. The other wing official on the far sideline does have a late flag; it's possible the man in motion away from him is supposed to be his responsibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Clock on the Patriots last drive
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:10 pm 
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jfurdell wrote:
SalishHawkFan wrote:
Well, I get what you're saying about they don't start the clock, but look at the play again and there is no penalty. No second man went in motion. And the flag comes out the moment Brady starts to go down. It's pretty obvious to me that the only reason the ref threw that flag was to have an excuse to stop the clock and buy NE more time. It's not like we Seahawk fans haven't seen this kind of manipulation by the refs over and over for decades now. That's why I immediately suspected what was going on and that's why I wasn't surprised when I went back on DVR and saw it was so obvious.


I also have it DVR'd and watched it again. The penalty was for illegal motion; the player in motion #84 was moving forward at the snap (hey look at that, it's Branch). There are two flags; the first one comes from the wing official on the near side of the field (the side Branch was on) and it's in the air before Brady was pressured. The other wing official on the far sideline does have a late flag; it's possible the man in motion away from him is supposed to be his responsibility.

I'll look at it again, but I thought the call was that two men went into motion. You may be right. I was looking for the second person going into motion, not if Branch turned upfield before the snap. I definitely only saw one flag, however. I'll check that too. Everyone is asleep now, so I'll do it in the morning.

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