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 Post subject: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:04 pm 
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In addition to NFC West Teams all having winning records, we also have three of the top five defenses by allowed scoring, and all four are in the top ten.

1. San Francisco
2. Seattle
5. Arizona
9. St. Louis

Who expected this before the season started? Not me...


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 Post subject: Re: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:08 pm 
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The NFL goes by yards.....and we're #1

1. Seattle
2. San Francisco
11. Arizona
14. St. Louis

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 Post subject: Re: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:15 pm 
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Granted. Yards don't win football games though, so to me the points allowed is the more important stat.


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 Post subject: Re: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:26 am 
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TheHawkster wrote:
The NFL goes by yards.....and we're #1


Yeah, but it's a stupid metric. Would you rather have a defense that gives up 14 points and 500 yards per game, or one that gives up 20 points and 300 yards per game? Obviously, points allowed is the be-all, end-all metric when it comes to ranking a defense. There are a lot of sub-stats that go into that, obviously, but the score trumps all. No matter what.

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 Post subject: Re: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:03 am 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
TheHawkster wrote:
The NFL goes by yards.....and we're #1


Yeah, but it's a stupid metric. Would you rather have a defense that gives up 14 points and 500 yards per game, or one that gives up 20 points and 300 yards per game? Obviously, points allowed is the be-all, end-all metric when it comes to ranking a defense. There are a lot of sub-stats that go into that, obviously, but the score trumps all. No matter what.


Offenses don't score all a teams points, defenses don't give up all a teams points.
The league ranks by yards for a reason.

Just for the fun of it, how can Red Bryant or Bobby Wagner tackle a guy on a Wilson Pick-6 or Jon Ryan safety?
Defenses are judged when defenses are on the field.

In all reality, both stats are just part of the story.

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 Post subject: Re: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:55 am 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you go by points, isn't our defense #1? The points allowed stats include the pick-6 points and special teams points, if you go with strictly points scored against defensive units, I believe the Hawks took the #1 spot after tonight's MNF game.


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 Post subject: Re: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:11 am 
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It's always annoyed me that the NFL includes pick-6 touchdowns and safeties under the "defensive points allowed" column. I mean, it seems pretty obvious to me that there should be a column somewhere for actual points allowed by the defense. I haven't found a source that does that, but PFR does have a table breaking down how all points were scored against every team. After a bit of spreadsheet tinkering, I got my personal favorite defense stat, Defensive Points Allowed per Game:

Image

That doesn't include monday night. The Texans defense only gave up 10 points, so they stay on top this week. The NFC West is ridiculously stout. Frankly, we all benefit a little from having played each other's offenses. If it was that big of a help, though, GB and WAS wouldn't be sitting near the bottom.


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 Post subject: Re: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:27 am 
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who else reckons the 49ers Seahawks game will be a 45-42 shootout?


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 Post subject: Re: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:28 am 
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Not just that but how can you fault a defense for giving up points on a FG when their QB throws an INT deep in their territory like Wilson did against the Rams. Also, allowing a 59 and 60 yard FG to the Rams kicker inflates our scoring D as well. A 59 and 60 yarder is not what I call FG range.


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 Post subject: Re: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:26 am 
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I dont care where some stat sheets rank us.. All I know is that when our D is on the field I'm actually excited. Something ive never felt before


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 Post subject: Re: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:52 am 
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gtcotcakya wrote:
Granted. Yards don't win football games though, so to me the points allowed is the more important stat.

Yes and no. We are really 1 in points as well go look at the breakdown on the points against and see how many were actually given up by the D and not their ST and their D.

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 Post subject: Re: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:10 am 
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Pstark3 wrote:
I dont care where some stat sheets rank us.. All I know is that when our D is on the field I'm actually excited. Something ive never felt before


Exactly, nothing against the OP, but sometimes i miss the days of just watching football. Rather then breaking down every possible stat and overanalyzing every individual play.

:les:

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 Post subject: Re: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:18 am 
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Houston and San Fran have benefited from some lesser competition that's for sure. Houston in particular.

They have played Miami, Jacksonville, Denver, Tennessee, and the Jets. They've played one pro bowl QB and coincidentally enough, he put up the most points against them.

The Niners have had a tougher schedule than Houston but they have recently feasted on two bad teams.


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 Post subject: Re: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:54 am 
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gtcotcakya wrote:
Granted. Yards don't win football games though, so to me the points allowed is the more important stat.


who has SF played?

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 Post subject: Re: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:44 am 
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Twisted wrote:
gtcotcakya wrote:
Granted. Yards don't win football games though, so to me the points allowed is the more important stat.


who has SF played?

I can take your question several different ways, not sure how you actually meant it.

The trivial answer is Packers, Lions, Vikings, Jets and Bills.

If I infer that your unsaid point is that SF has played lesser opponents and thus the relative rankings are incorrect, I won't disagree with you. Obviously (and as many here have already pointed out), the stats referred to are not the whole story. However, I do think that it's the best indicator presently available until the updated DVOA is released later today.

When that happens I fully expect to see the NFC West fully represented in the top ten, and perhaps three of the four in the top five (last week SF, SEA, and AZ were ranked 4, 5, and 6 respectively, and ironically STL was ranked 9th).

The point is that NFC West defenses have been dominant.


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 Post subject: Re: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:39 pm 
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If we are talking about POINTS and DEFENSE

we are number 1 with - 54

49ers 2nd - 62

I read this earlier from either Sando or .com

we gave up 16 points ( fake fg , interception return , saftey)

we also havent giving up a touchdown in 128 minutes , would be more if kam dont get called for p.i against the packers


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 Post subject: Re: Defense - NFC West Style
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:44 pm 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
TheHawkster wrote:
The NFL goes by yards.....and we're #1


Yeah, but it's a stupid metric. Would you rather have a defense that gives up 14 points and 500 yards per game, or one that gives up 20 points and 300 yards per game? Obviously, points allowed is the be-all, end-all metric when it comes to ranking a defense. There are a lot of sub-stats that go into that, obviously, but the score trumps all. No matter what.


The only problem with the Points allowed, is there is no differentiating defensive points allowed vs. Special teams points (such as punt returns/ Kickoff returns for TD's, blocked punts for TD's, ect.

Nor do they seperate- pick 6/ fumble returns for TD's which again aren't defensive points allowed. Our number are more impressive when you subtract out the pick 6, and the safety from last week. You could also probably include the special teams TD throw.

But I agree the points are all that matters. Who cares if we give up a to of yards as long as we keep them from scoring.


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