http://seattletimes.com/html/stevekelle ... ley03.html

-Steve Kelly


"But why, in a season this important, with a defense this dominating, has coach Pete Carroll chosen to go with the rookie Wilson instead of the veteran Matt Flynn, who spent his first four seasons in the Green Bay Packers' sophisticated offense, preparing himself for the opportunity that should have come to him this summer?"

Holding a clipboard for four years qualifies one as a veteran?

Enough is enough with the semantics. Both would experience growing pains.

Cadillac wrote:Holding a clipboard for four years qualifies one as a veteran?

Enough is enough with the semantics. Both would experience growing pains.

Yeah, and don't forget the "should" part.



BTW I don't think the Seahawks are painted into a corner. I think Seahawks fan might be tho.

Theyre only painted into a corner if they're listening to the fans and media, which i sincerely hope they are not.

I love that Pete doesn't care about conventional wisdom all the time, but sometimes I think he ignores it for unsound reasons. I've no idea what the decision making process was in preseason, or if this phantom elbow injury of Flynn's (if it exists) played a factor, but I can appreciate that Wilson looked good with his opportunities. All I can also say is that, since we're all about excuses, Flynn didn't have Marshawn, the line was still in a bit of flux, and several starting receivers were also out.

My point? I'm not sure that I have one, other than to say that I am beginning to think that Pete fell in love with the idea of Wilson (like many of us!) instead of focusing on who would give us our better chance to win now.

But hey, what do I know? If Wilson played just a teensy bit better at the end of two games we wouldn't be having this discussion.

JSeahawks wrote:Theyre only painted into a corner if they're listening to the fans and media, which i sincerely hope they are not.

Bingo.

You're painted into a corner only if you're afraid of making footprints.

It certainly can be argued that the Hawks would have beaten Arizona in the opener. And it is likely Flynn wouldn't have made the same mistakes the rookie made Sunday in St. Louis.

I'll never understand statements like these. Complete hindsight bias.

The fact is we'll never know what Flynn would have done. He could be the best QB ever, or the worst.

We just don't know, we'll never know, and these kind of arguments are best saved for drunks and fanatics on a message board.

Cadillac wrote:Holding a clipboard for four years qualifies one as a veteran?

Enough is enough with the semantics. Both would experience growing pains.

Exactly. We need to go no farther than our own team to prove this point.

Refer to our Clip Board Jesus.

If holding a clip board for many years is the key he should have been the 2nd comming of Joe Montana/Johny U and every other qb Master that has ever played.

I think Kelley is a joke of a sports writer and his knowledge of sports in general but aside from calling Flynn a veteran I actually agree that they should have started Flynn to begin the season. I did fall into the hype of how ready RW was and took the coaching staff's word for it and am second guessing now. I just don't see how Flynn could have been any less advanced than what Wilson has shown and am of the opinion that those years watching, practicing and learning had to have accounted for something more than being a straight up rookie from college. We heard alot about how well Flynn could read defenses and his decision making process until we drafted Wilson. Now all that's out the window?

Now I think this whole decision was based on going with who they thought was going to be the guy long term and just starting that process now and taking the lumps now as opposed to later. And there is a valid argument I think for each side on this thing. I'd prefer they would have started Flynn myself.

I don't know why this situation is so touchy between fans though. Why can't we feel like Flynn should be starting or RW should be starting? I don't give a shit if someone else thinks we should be starting RW and sticking it out with him. I can understand that too.

Technically, once you are past your rookie year you are a veteran. Jesus you guys.

The Hawks just need to do what they truly believe is the best for the team. When people were crying for CW they stood fast. If they believe that Wilson gives them the best chance to win this year I am all for it.

Could someone please explain to me how your painted into a corner with a 2-2 record and 3/4 of the season to go? Do we have a few things to figure out? Yeah! It's more like being painted into the middle of an auditorium. We have time to get it corrected.

Kelly has always been a drama queen.

Well I'd much rather be 2-2 and 2-0 in the division. Starting 0-2 in the division is a hole/corner.

Wow, The Wilsonites love to place Flynn in that Charlie "clipboard jesus" box everytime they can't think of a good reason why Flynn isn't the starter. Until i see Wilson throw 4 or more TD's in a shoot out like Flynn has done and still come away with that win, i will consider Flynn the best guy for the job right now. If you want to be technical just being in the league for 4 yrs will make you a veteran QB. Not to mention starting 2 games and doing very well in those games. He had more yards and td's, less int's in those two games he has played then Wilson has in 4 games. I think he lost the job because in the preseason he was far to conservative, like he thought if he didn't make mistakes he would easily win the job. He didn't go after it like he should have. Now i know if he had to do it all over again he would have gone all out and clearly won that job. I really like Wilson, he has talent, but i really think Flynn would have won at least one of the games we have lost. When Flynn gets his chance, it will be night and day. He will destroy the team we play that week, i just know it. Wilson in my opinion is not the right QB for this system. They are asking him to sit in the pocket and makes things happen, but in the pocket his vision is not going to be there like flynn's would. He is just to small to see the entire field if he stays in the pocket. So your choices are chance the system to suit Wilson, or continue to destroy Wilson's career while at the same time destroying Flynn's career by holding him back. Just my opinion, that it for what it is worth

SeahawksRawk wrote:

Cadillac wrote:Holding a clipboard for four years qualifies one as a veteran?

Enough is enough with the semantics. Both would experience growing pains.

Exactly. We need to go no farther than our own team to prove this point.

Refer to our Clip Board Jesus.

If holding a clip board for many years is the key he should have been the 2nd comming of Joe Montana/Johny U and every other qb Master that has ever played.

Having a problem finding that game Charlie Whitehurst threw for 480 and 6...

Anyone that starts a rookie QB can't be expected to be a true contender unless the red sea parts, not painted into a corner, more of not living up to the pre season hype and going through the typical growing pains of an inexpereinced QB learning his job.

LOL. "Veteran" Matt Flynn? Dude has been a backup for 4 years and starts 2 games and he's a "veteran?" He's every bit as unproven as Wilson at this point. And everyone focuses on whether he would have won one of those two lost games. But would he have lost won of the two games we won? Would we have beaten Green Bay with Matt Flynn at QB? How do we even know? How does anyone feel like they can say with any certainty how Flynn would perform? He had a great game that one time. He really did. But small sample sizes are small. They fluctuate wildly. Remember when Willie Bloomquist had an incredible September? Yes, I know, it's baseball, but the point stands.

Seahawk Sailor wrote:

JSeahawks wrote:Theyre only painted into a corner if they're listening to the fans and media, which i sincerely hope they are not.

Bingo.

Or they are listening to bestfightstory and he hopes they are

Everybody knows more than coaches, and the backup always shits golden eggs. 2nd oldest story in sports. The oldest story in sports has to do with naked Greek wrestlers. Maybe another time.

rainger wrote:

Seahawk Sailor wrote:

JSeahawks wrote:Theyre only painted into a corner if they're listening to the fans and media, which i sincerely hope they are not.

Bingo.

Or they are listening to bestfightstory and he hopes they are

Ummm...I didn't write the article-I linked to it. It's called sharing information. Information includes opinions. You seem to have a bunch of those about me. It's kinda touching.

Basis4day wrote:

It certainly can be argued that the Hawks would have beaten Arizona in the opener. And it is likely Flynn wouldn't have made the same mistakes the rookie made Sunday in St. Louis.

He could be the best QB ever

I highly doubt that, in his 5 years he would have shown some signs he was going to be great not to mention the greatest, would the Hawks have won all 4 if Flynn was in?

maybe? that we'll never know

As a head coach, its his job to evaluate and bring this program to fruition, he may have found what RW has that would help this team reach that point. I am sure he would have evaluated everything and figured RW to be the best of the lot to lead this team. So as an outsider I have no problem playing him as long as he has the coaches confidence. Yes, after showing a great KC game in pre season, I can understand why I feel terrible seeing RW in regular games, but I am hoping he will reach his full potential soon.

Happypuppy wrote:The Hawks just need to do what they truly believe is the best for the team. When people were crying for CW they stood fast. If they believe that Wilson gives them the best chance to win this year I am all for it.

With all respect to those that continue to use CW as some sort of measuring stick...you should stop. Continue only if, the day we signed Flynn, you actually said...oh, good, another clipboard Jesus on the roster. If you didn't say that then, why say it now?

I think we all believe Flynn is better than CW, so this argument is nothing more than argument. It is true Flynn has spent his career carrying a clipboard. But he's done so for a team that over the years, has had an uncanny ability to find and develope QBs. Just the fact they kept Flynn on the sideline for that long at the 2 spot, tells me Flynn is the real deal. Steve Young carried a clipboard for awhile as well. So did Tom Brady. Flynn deserves a shot, if for no other reason, Wilson is not getting it done. Blame the receivers, blame the line, whatever...our current situation is not producing pts and if a change can change that...let change begin.

Scottemojo wrote:Everybody knows more than coaches, and the backup always shits golden eggs. 2nd oldest story in sports. The oldest story in sports has to do with naked Greek wrestlers. Maybe another time.

Point to me a back up who has performed like Flynn in their chances at starting and I'll show you someone who has earned that respect. People talking down Flynn to protect Wilson is getting old and don't even have a good argument. The best you can say about Wilson is that he performed better in the pre-season, but pre-season doesn't mean squat.

jkitsune wrote:LOL. "Veteran" Matt Flynn? Dude has been a backup for 4 years and starts 2 games and he's a "veteran?" He's every bit as unproven as Wilson at this point. And everyone focuses on whether he would have won one of those two lost games. But would he have lost won of the two games we won? Would we have beaten Green Bay with Matt Flynn at QB? How do we even know? How does anyone feel like they can say with any certainty how Flynn would perform? He had a great game that one time. He really did. But small sample sizes are small. They fluctuate wildly. Remember when Willie Bloomquist had an incredible September? Yes, I know, it's baseball, but the point stands.

You might have a point if Wilson hadn't been so outstanding bad to mediocre in the two wins and losses. We didn't win against the Packers or Cowboys because of Wilson, but we definately lost because of him not being able to move the ball through the air. With a little more offense we wouldn't have needed that last minute hail marry to beat the Packers.

Pete Carroll painted into a corner. This decision will make or break him. He better have it right or we are starting over again

bestfightstory wrote:Technically, once you are past your rookie year you are a veteran. Jesus you guys.

And as we all know, James Carpenter offers a "veteran" presence on the offensive line!

Man............ Honestly, I think Matt Flynn probably WOULD do a good job, but what's a coach to do? None of us reside even part-time in PC's head. I can see where everyone is coming from on this issue, but do you really want to yank the rookie QB when we're 2-2 and the losses we had were close? Really close? Right now we're not getting blown out on the field, so I'm inclined to say patience is in order. I really like RW and consider myself on his wagon, yet I was really excited about Flynn coming to town. A part of me wishes Flynn would have started just to see, but oh well. The coaching staff has chosen a path, and now they get to travel it, while we watch from the sidelines.

If not at 2-2 then when?

If we wait until we are mathematically eliminated then what's the point? It would make more sense then to just throw the season away for the sake of developing Wilson.

How do you think fans would feel if Wilson got injured after we were mathematically eliminated and Flynn came in and tore it up? If you think fans are upset now, they would be openly calling for Carroll's job if that happened.

RichNhansom wrote:If not at 2-2 then when?

If we wait until we are mathematically eliminated then what's the point? It would make more sense then to just throw the season away for the sake of developing Wilson.

How do you think fans would feel if Wilson got injured after we were mathematically eliminated and Flynn came in and tore it up? If you think fans are upset now, they would be openly calling for Carroll's job if that happened.

If Flynn came in and tore it up, no one would care about Pete's job cause tearing it up = winning. Winning heals all wounds.

My guess is Wilson has to prove he can win this week. If we lose at Carolina, Flynn's starting at home next week against the Pats, fake sore elbow and all.

Sgt. Largent wrote:

RichNhansom wrote:
How do you think fans would feel if Wilson got injured after we were mathematically eliminated and Flynn came in and tore it up? If you think fans are upset now, they would be openly calling for Carroll's job if that happened.

If Flynn came in and tore it up, no one would care about Pete's job cause tearing it up = winning. Winning heals all wounds.

My guess is Wilson has to prove he can win this week. If we lose at Carolina, Flynn's starting at home next week against the Pats, fake sore elbow and all.

Really? You don't think people would be frustrated that we wasted a season?

I disagree and even worse, next year we would be faced with even more challenges. If Flynn did well in that scenario I would assume he would want to either be traded or guaranteed the starter spot the following year. If Wilson still was a question mark, what would be the best way to go? I get the feeling that Pete would want to stick to his mantra of competition and tell Flynn he would have to again fight for the job. I don't get the feeling that Flynn would be agreeable to that and would force a trade or hold out and to honest I wouldn't blame him.

Pete is going by his gut in thinking that Wilson will get it. He also went by his gut that Jackson would improve away from the chaos in Minnesota and that Whitehurst would blossom in our system. They don't always work out. If Wilson never becomes that QB we all hope he does and we burn Flynn, especially if Flynn were to have a few good games for us that exceeded anything Wilson had shown, it could be a major catalyst for his departure.

I'm of the opinion that the Seahawks passing offense lack of performance is a coaching problem as much as anything else. If one looks at Wilson in his college games, he was not a pocket QB. PC has seen fit to try and make him into a pocket QB and game manager, and that isn't what he is. PC is trying to put a square peg into a round hole. Wilson's abilities and his college successes are all as a mobile QB with evasive moves that can pass on the run. Why are they trying to change him?

I was under the impression that PC's wanted a running game offense with the use of "motion plays, bootlegs, screen passes and run/pass options" in the passing game that would keep defenses on their heels while having to respect the exceptional running game. Where is that? Turn the kid loose and let him actually use more of his skills rather than hold him back in favor of a running game and passing mostly on 3-rd downs if the running game doesn't produce a first down.
(Additionally, way too many penalties have stalled a lot of drives.)

If PC really wants a pocket QB, he should be starting Flynn as that is more of what he is, however if he still wants the potential of Wilson to come out, the system" needs to be adjusted some to accomodate Wilson's skills and strengths IMO.

I’ve mostly stayed out of this discussion because I have a serious bias against rookie QBs…

But I also have a bias against back-up QBs as well….

There lies my quandary inside an imbroglio…

FidelisHawk wrote:I’ve mostly stayed out of this discussion because I have a serious bias against rookie QBs…

But I also have a bias against back-up QBs as well….

There lies my quandary inside an imbroglio…

I call your 2 biases and raise you 4 radials

grizbob wrote:

FidelisHawk wrote:I’ve mostly stayed out of this discussion because I have a serious bias against rookie QBs…

But I also have a bias against back-up QBs as well….

There lies my quandary inside an imbroglio…

I call your 2 biases and raise you 4 radials

Well, in that case I’m afraid I’ll have to fold and take my quandary and my imbroglio with me, to my quagmire…