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Sarlacc83

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I couldn't get too far with that. Makes Bevell's play design look pretty good. *sigh*
 

Scottemojo

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That might be the worst way to prove a point I have ever seen. Go do that with any very good QB in this league, and you will see the same thing. Still shots don't give the context of play design, correct read, or what happens to how open players look as defenders react to throws.
 
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FlyingGreg

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Scottemojo":fcoy7f19 said:
That might be the worst way to prove a point I have ever seen. Go do that with any very good QB in this league, and you will see the same thing. Still shots don't give the context of play design, correct read, or what happens to how open players look as defenders react to throws.

True.

But it does show that the WRs are getting open more than I thought.
 

hawkfan1975

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Scottemojo":a0xucevj said:
That might be the worst way to prove a point I have ever seen. Go do that with any very good QB in this league, and you will see the same thing. Still shots don't give the context of play design, correct read, or what happens to how open players look as defenders react to throws.

:177692:
 

Verndog

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It shows more then hot air "nobody is open" murder, death, kill all WR's. :!:
 

drdiags

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Shot 28 is the one I was mentioning about the ref covering up Baldwin.

The miss to Zach and the defender falling covering Tate (?) on that same play, it would have been across his body running away to hit Tate in the middle but would have been sweet TD as well (or just throw to Zach).

Appreciate Hawkblogger's effort. BTW, those coaches tape surely need to have upgraded cameras taking the shots. It's like watching old black and white film in high school with the old projectors. Get it together teams, update your hardware.
 

Verndog

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FlyingGreg":2p2sz6ai said:
Verndog":2p2sz6ai said:
It shows more then hot air "nobody is open" murder, death, kill all WR's. :!:

Yep...even a noted WR critic such as I must admit that.

You weren't the only one that cruised outside .net during downtime. :D

I found it useful keeping in mind it's a snapshot within a 3 sec. or so window.
 

Scottemojo

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FlyingGreg":q1vo7tbr said:
Scottemojo":q1vo7tbr said:
That might be the worst way to prove a point I have ever seen. Go do that with any very good QB in this league, and you will see the same thing. Still shots don't give the context of play design, correct read, or what happens to how open players look as defenders react to throws.

True.

But it does show that the WRs are getting open more than I thought.

Let me illustrate it like this. People have been talking at length about how Wilson missed a wide open Zach Miller and threw an incompletion to Rice. there is a still shot that makes it look he must need a seeing eye dog to help him play QB if he can't see Miller. What the still shot doesn't show is that a safety was covering Miller a split second before, right when Wilson was looking at him, and peeled off coverage as Wilson moved to the next read at the back of the endzone. Could he have made the pass to Miller? Yep. But there is a good reason the still shot is misleading about how open Miller looks.
 

drdiags

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It doesn't pay well for sponsors I suppose but having one of those "Knox Talks Hawks" reviews of plays on an hour show would be worth gold to me. Knox drove me crazy with that damn clicker though.
 
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FlyingGreg

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Scottemojo":2pls42zm said:
FlyingGreg":2pls42zm said:
Scottemojo":2pls42zm said:
That might be the worst way to prove a point I have ever seen. Go do that with any very good QB in this league, and you will see the same thing. Still shots don't give the context of play design, correct read, or what happens to how open players look as defenders react to throws.

True.

But it does show that the WRs are getting open more than I thought.

Let me illustrate it like this. People have been talking at length about how Wilson missed a wide open Zach Miller and threw an incompletion to Rice. there is a still shot that makes it look he must need a seeing eye dog to help him play QB if he can't see Miller. What the still shot doesn't show is that a safety was covering Miller a split second before, right when Wilson was looking at him, and peeled off coverage as Wilson moved to the next read at the back of the endzone. Could he have made the pass to Miller? Yep. But there is a good reason the still shot is misleading about how open Miller looks.

I hear what you are saying...and I agree, it's not a perfect picture by any means. But there are quite a few plays other than this one where it's obvious no matter the circumstances the WRs are open in spaces.
 

Basis4day

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Let me illustrate it like this. People have been talking at length about how Wilson missed a wide open Zach Miller and threw an incompletion to Rice. there is a still shot that makes it look he must need a seeing eye dog to help him play QB if he can't see Miller. What the still shot doesn't show is that a safety was covering Miller a split second before, right when Wilson was looking at him, and peeled off coverage as Wilson moved to the next read at the back of the endzone. Could he have made the pass to Miller? Yep. But there is a good reason the still shot is misleading about how open Miller looks.

Moon gave the same sentiment yesterday with Brock and Salk.

I don't really care for freeze frame analysis by itself. That's something Mike Martz would do.
 
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FlyingGreg

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drdiags":2frod6hy said:
It doesn't pay well for sponsors I suppose but having one of those "Knox Talks Hawks" reviews of plays on an hour show would be worth gold to me. Knox drove me crazy with that damn clicker though.

I'm with you...would love that.
 

Hawkaholic

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The biggest thing these still shots don't show is Wilson's reads. If the WR gets open after he's already looked his way it's not his fault necessarily. Same thing if Wilson's last read gets open right off the snap, a picture will make him look like he missed a wide open WR. What he can do is try to anticipate what the defense will give him pre-snap. But I suspect he's seen a ton of different looks since he's a rookie. He'll improve with time.
 

Coug_Hawk08

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I saw this earlier today, and was disappointed. Hawkblogger normally spews a lot of words. To post ambiguous photos with no real context/analysis was just lame IMO.
 

firebee

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These shots don't show what the QB sees from behind the LOS. The design of Bevell's passing plays do not create quick completions. Me and my friends watched they game and my friends even noticed that almost all of the routes our receivers run are deep routes that take time to develop. Almost none of them had receivers getting open quickly on the slant, hitch, curl or crossing route. Bevell needs to start running 2 short - 2 deep, 3 short - 2 deep or 2 short - 3 deep passing plays.... Not 3 or 4 deep with a checkdown, especially when the checkdown is the last or 2nd to last option in the progression. His passing plays create easy coverage for opposing defenses. Opposing defenses figure out... Just cover deep and pressure the backfield because the quick short-intermediate passes don't exist when we're passing the ball and the checkdown's the last read, which gives the linebackers enough time to close on the checkdown if the QB extends the play.
 

kmedic

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Take a listen to Hugh Millen break down the last interception when McCoy slipped while looking at the stills that Hawkblogger provides. Everyone has been saying it wasn't Wilson's fault that McCoy slipped and he didn't deserve the INT but after listening to this breakdown and looking at the stills, Wilson clearly made the wrong read and throw. Baldwin was WIDE OPEN down the middle!!

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/10/3/344 ... arren-moon

I'm willing to endure Wilson for a few more games but if he continues to make level 101 mistakes like these that lead to bad losses like last week then I really think we need to get Flynn in there.
 

AgentDib

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I have to agree with Scott that still frames are not persuasive on two counts.

1. No QB in the league keeps track of all of his receivers all of the time, instead they go through a series of progressions planned ahead of time. This would be extremely valuable if it was video showing the reads Wilson was making, what coverage he was looking at, and where he should have gone with the ball. Any decent analysis does just that. We have heard a few breakdowns where Wilson made the wrong read and so it is likely a real issue, but nothing in these stills is a smoking gun.

2. Every WR in the NFL will get open after a few seconds unless they completely give up on the play. The typical NFL pocket is supposed to last for just 2.5 seconds and what matters is whether the receiver is open in the single moment when the QB is looking his way.
 

Hawkaholic

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AgentDib":2jq8fjue said:
I have to agree with Scott that still frames are not persuasive on two counts.

1. No QB in the league keeps track of all of his receivers all of the time, instead they go through a series of progressions planned ahead of time. This would be extremely valuable if it was video showing the reads Wilson was making, what coverage he was looking at, and where he should have gone with the ball. Any decent analysis does just that. We have heard a few breakdowns where Wilson made the wrong read and so it is likely a real issue, but nothing in these stills is a smoking gun.

2. Every WR in the NFL will get open after a few seconds unless they completely give up on the play. The typical NFL pocket is supposed to last for just 2.5 seconds and what matters is whether the receiver is open in the single moment when the QB is looking his way.

Yep, exactly
 

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