they have a 4 year plan and thats good but pete did himself a disservice by selecting to start a rookie qb and crowing about how good everything is around the vmac all summer. since then things have gotten off to a rough start, which is understandable but ridiculously frustrating. his plan is a good thing to have as a framework but when he tells you he is going off course for his own ego and it doesn't work out, the last thing you want to hear is how great his plan is working. its salt in the wound at that point. its just better for him to accept that a problem he started needs more of his attention, but its now too late for personnel changes so we have to adjust what the player is allowed/can do.

The 4-year plan, while valid, should not be used as a crutch or an excuse for the in-season tactical things this team is failing.

Play calling, penalties, playing soft on 3rd down defense and red zone ineptness cannot be excused away as a victim of the 4-year plan. In my best Herman Edwards voice, you "play to win the game". While I agree the rebuilding project is not complete (it was made even more obvious when we totally ignored the offense outside of Robert Turbin in the draft), we are losing games not because of inferior talent but because of poor coaching and mistakes.

PS Kip - I'm not saying YOU are using it as an excuse. I just don't want people tp jump on the back of it and wave the flag.

_________________
@SeahawkGreg

YEAH, WE HAVE A DUDE NAMED CHRISTINE...DEAL WITH IT!

Good points. I mentioned before that I think that Schneider was being pretty specific when he mentioned that there was a 4-year plan in place. I think that's how long he determined it would take for the team to get the types of players they desired in place at all positions and then to get them to develop cohesiveness, chemistry, etc.

Of course, that's still only a plan. I think there are probably areas where things have come together quicker than expected (the secondary, perhaps) and areas where things have taken longer than they'd like (O-line, for example). I think this is still a team that's developing. I don't think it's close to a finished product that can enter maintenance mode yet, and I absolutely don't believe they're just a different QB away from SB contender status (unless, perhaps, that QB is the 2003-2009 version of Peyton Manning - who, as I understand, is not available due to the undeveloped nature of time travel).

The plan can explain why we might continue to see youth being developed at some positions, but it doesn't excuse the unnecessary penalties and the poor coaching decisions (like onside kicks to start the 2nd half when it's a 1 score game).

_________________


Okay, so maybe that pass rush is still an issue. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I guess our floor could be the chargers. Deep talented roster that keeps under performing. Boy I hope not.

_________________
You have destroyed us. You found the flaw in the crystal. We are gone. You are alone.

Sure would be a shame to waste the good years Marshawn has left to see if Russell can play. It makes far more sense to see at least what Flynn can do given how good this team is.

I'd agree with you if the ENTIRE team was still growing along with Wilson.

But it's not, this team is built to compete for a Superbowl NOW, not in four years. We have all the other pieces in place, a top 5 defense, the #1 running attack in the league, and a very good special teams. All that's missing is a QB that can read a defense, convert on 3rd downs, and make a couple plays a game to score more than 10 points a game.

You might be right, Wilson could be the answer........but he's not the answer in 2012. Flynn gives us the best chance to win NOW.

_________________
If there is no Seahawk football in heaven, then we will never die.

C'mon man, come up with something original that you actually thought of. That old line is BS anyway, about the computer age. People have always been inpatient, especially Americans.

This.

People talk of this 3 year or so window but I see a 1 year window with a pretty healthy team.
Lynch, Rice, Clemons, Okung, Moffit, Carpenter ect... all could be out of the picture in a flash.

I believe still we are very close to having what we need to go deep into playoffs now. Wait for nothing, play to win, and start coaching to win now!

_________________
"Improvement" can come from who you play-

1 year window? Screw that. I want to contend EVERY year, like the Steelers, Patriots, Ravens, etc. And that requires players to develop. We had O-linemen develop last season. We had secondary guys develop the year before that. We've got a QB developing now.

As for players who could be out of the picture in a flash, this is the NFL. That applies to every player on every team. Useless as a scare tactic.

_________________


Okay, so maybe that pass rush is still an issue. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Really good discussion in this thread. Parts of me agree with all of you. I always thought starting Flynn. Would be better for the team. Figured he would get hurt at so e point this year and RW would take over and never look back, leaving Flynn as awesome trade bait. I have my doubs we would be 2-2 flynn though.

_________________
[RE Lynch's foot injury] He'll be fine. Better to rest him at this point. Pretty sure he has the playbook down.
"Get ball from Wilson, run over bitches".
Hasselbeck

And I think you also have to consider that this defense has a lot of young guys who are underpaid given their performance. Can the team afford to keep all of its star young defensive players when it comes time for their second contracts? Maybe the length of their various contracts makes keeping most of them more feasible, I really don't know. My point is that it would be a shame for NFL economics to force at least a partial breakup of this awesome Defense, and then we all lament that they missed their window because the offense was just so bad while the team waited to see if RW3 can play.

So do I but my main point is, the window of certainty is here now. Next year yes, we build, plan and hope to be there, but it is the future and is not a reality yet, and history proves it cannot be relied upon.

_________________
"Improvement" can come from who you play-

This is the problem I have with Carroll's "unconventional" way of coaching.

Common sense says you signed Flynn, he's the more capable QB to start now with how good the rest of our team is. Flynn can read defenses, go through progressions faster and more times than not throw to the right spot and change plays when needed.

Why did Carroll rush Wilson into the starting job? There was no need, let the guy sit, learn the league and in a year or two if Flynn doesn't work out you bring him in. I just never saw the reason to rush Wilson, and now we're paying for it with the worst passing offense in the league.

_________________
If there is no Seahawk football in heaven, then we will never die.

I don't think any "certainty" is here yet. I think we've made big strides, but we're still a work in progress. Our defense is better than we've ever seen it, but we still give up too many 3rd and longs and our pass rush disappears on the road. Our run offense is the most reliable unit on the team, imo. Our O-line isn't a SB-caliber pass blocking unit by ANY stretch of the imagination, and we commit too many penalties. Our WR corps needs to develop some consistency, and we need better play from the QB position. We also need better playcalling.

Those things above tell me that while our talent and our strengths indicate that we can make the postseason, where anything can happen, we're not quite yet a SB-caliber team just waiting for a QB to step in and make it happen. It's going to require improvement from all positions, together.

_________________


Okay, so maybe that pass rush is still an issue. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Every 3 years thers's a new 4 year plan...

_________________
Go SeaHawks

Carroll had no choice, he opened up the competition and Wilson won when it counted, plus Flynn developed an arm issue (all be it questionable how bad). Even me as a Flynn supporter was able to concede that.

That said things have now changed and the question only re appears because of that. I don't even think you give Flynn the year or 2...just the 4-5 games you gave Wilson to really give a good comparison. They competed under terrible conditions. 13 Wr's many of which are not in the league, Lynch mostly unavailable, Rice and Baldwin unavailable ect. Now is the time see IMO.

_________________
"Improvement" can come from who you play-

Errr.......yeah, not sold on the Flynn arm issue thing. To me that's a backdoor excuse Carroll can sneak out of when he's taking heat for his decision to start a rookie QB. "Well I had no choice people! Matt's got that bum elbow for not throwing for six straight weeks while holding a clipboard! Yeah, that's the ticket!"

I also think it was a little naive of Carroll to put so much stock in Wilson's pre-season. Yes Wilson was great, but it was still the pre-season. No one tries, and no one schemes. Add in the fact that 2 out of Wilson's 3 pre-season games was against 2nd and 3rd stringers, most of which aren't even in the league anymore.

_________________
If there is no Seahawk football in heaven, then we will never die.

As I started to read the OP I fugured you were going to go into a I was wrong about Wilson slant. I like your state of the franchise take that you took. We all need a reality check in that this is a process. Prior to the start of the season, I figured the Seahawks would be 2-2 after the first 4, got the record right, just not who they beat. I also looked at the schedule and figured if they can make it through the first half of the season at 4-4, then 10 or 12 wins is very likely. 5 of the last 8 are at home. road games at Miami (winnable), Chicago (tough) and Buffalo(winnable).
I think you may be holding something back on your analysis of Wilson. You stated that he is doing things that you haven't seen him do before. Rookie growing pains? Probably

_________________
Go Hawks!

I totally accept the fact it's a 4-year plan. But, emotionally it makes me pout like a toddler. "B-b-b-b-but I want to win NOW!"

_________________
@ryanadamdavis

By certainty I mean there appears to be enough in place to make a run this year. The details obviously are not certain. Top 5 defense, top 5 RB, good special teams are certain at this point. We have a chance to win every game so far, certain. Offense being the question mark (including coaching yes), and point of discussion as what to do. IMO we need around a #20 or better O to win, and it's possible to get there.

Agree on WIP, but all teams will always be a work in progress to some point though.

_________________
"Improvement" can come from who you play-