Do you think he would have any more success if he was in more of a Mathews role? Like a outside 3-4 linebacker, move him around, or even stack him over Clem at times. I feel like the coach need to get more creative with him, they are just lining him up and hoping his speed works. Maybe his football IQ will improve over the season and the game will slow down for him. At this point he looks to be overwhelmed and over thinking.could be why the coaches are keeping it simple for him.

Standing him up sounds like a good idea I also like the idea of Clemons and Irvin stacked. That could be a potent combo off the edge.

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"Tracy Porter lost his manhood when Marshawn stiff armed him" some dude on youtube.

I really like this idea. However I think the real issue is that Irvin does not know how to engage blockers. If you watch Mathews he does a great job using his hands once hes engaged with the linemen. It looks like Irvin just tries to run by them and if doesn't work he quits.

That's a great point. It's almost like he is back at West Virginia being put on the line trying to outmuscle 310 pound behemoths. He's not ready for that. He should be in more of a Wide 9 look to give his speed an advantage.

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Joe Vellano, DT, 6'1", 300lbs, 61 tkls 14 TFL, 6 sacks" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc_yzeVi-eU, Mike Catapano 6'4" 271
QB Jordan Rodgers 6'1" 212# 2539 Yards, 60% completion 15td/5int

I don't think he is a project, a project normally is not set to start game 1 and continue to be in the starting roster. He is a rookie and will have to go through some downs before he figures thinks out, I think he will be just fine after another 4 or 5 games, he has the physical tools, he just need to understand the speed and tune his mind, when to rush, whether it is on snap or delayed rush, but he is definitely a fast guy. He has only potential to go up, how soon is the question, that we will have to see.

Mario Williams?
Look, I understand where you guys are coming from to some degree, I too would like to see a glimps or two from the kid showing why PC & JS made the decide to take him (he wouldn't have made it to the second round), so apparently they scouted him pretty hard, and felt he was going to be solid,,Maybe not right away, but somewhere down the road.
PC and JS pick for football smarts as well as self motivation and athletic abilities, and so far they've found some real gems, so, "I'm In"

I think maybe we can. I went back today and watched the defense during the second half of last week's game, and I noticed something surprising. Our four man pass rushing was actually working. With one or two exceptions, Irvin was not a part of that. With Clemons on one side and Bryant on the other, we were actually getting a solid amount of pressure. When I was trying to remember the game, I thought we had been sending blitzes regularly, but that wasn't true.

For the record, while Irvin had one near sack (which caused the interception that Clemons' offsides penalty nulled), he definitely didn't get regular pressure. Everyone already knew that, but it leads to my next point: I'm not sure we can afford for Irvin to not be a project. If they try to force the issue with him, I think we'll be worse off than if they rely on the actual disruption that Bryant causes. I'm okay with Irvin getting his reps, but at this point I think it would be better if they keep him on the bench in the red zone and other critical situations. There's no reason they couldn't work him in as he progresses. The guy actually has some potential to hurry the QB so it's not a total waste as long as we're not talking about do-or-die situations.

Yes, we can afford a "project." Of course, that depends a bit on how you define the word.

IIRC, Irvin was picked specifically to play the LEO position. Since we re-signed Clemons, that means that our LOTF can step back a bit from the spotlight of being a mid first round pick and take some time to learn the pro game. In fact, he'll not be playing LEO much while Clem is healthy. He'll be playing other roles he's not as well suited for physically. I trust that the coaching staff are looking for ways to use Irvin productively.

Sacks come in bunches and streaks, on the team and on the individual level. Clem has been our best pass rusher for two years had 11 sacks per season. That means that he did not get a sack in every game. Even the best sack artists in NFL history seldom (never?) got a sack in every game of a season. The fact that Irvin didn't get a sack against AZ does not concern me much. I think he'll come around, and soon. I expect a half dozen sacks from him this year, at least.

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Talent can get you to the playoffs.
It takes character to win when you get there.

Loaded question.

A lot of how you might respond is how you expect a "project" to perform in his rookie season. If you expect it to be subpar from Week 1 through Week 16, then no, I imagine you can't afford that type of project.

If you expect struggles early on and then growth which leads to promising production later in the season, then yeah, I think that's a project you take on if the potential payoff is big.

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Okay, so maybe that pass rush is still an issue. Lather, rinse, repeat.

If Irvin has potential at OLB, you can expect him to end up there once a real DE is found. Carroll is always moving guys around and tweaking things. He enabled Bryant, experimented with Curry, adjusted to Mebane's strengths (he looked good in Arizona), all kinds of stuff. If Irvin's a Clay Matthews type waiting to happen, Pete will figure it out. Malcolm Smith certainly has no monopoly on the position yet. (And I agree that Irvin should be used as a Wide 9 for the moment, not lined up tight - several others made that point earlier in the year).

I'm cautiously curious about what Greg Scruggs can do at DE. You never know who's going to emerge on this team.

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Irvin has all the physical tools to go to war just like Mathews. But I don't see any of that hunger. You gotta want that type of battle every play. Correct me if you think I am wrong, but do any of you see that hunger yet? A hint of it?

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SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need

You are going to call me ridiculous because I pointed out Irvin was on the field the entire game winning drive? Did you really see no difference in results with that drive compared to prior with Red in the game? You are right about 1 thing...yes I did it on purpose, and that is pointed out the fact we appeared my liable with Irvin then without. Get over it.

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"Improvement" can come from who you play-

Earl Thomas was on the field that whole drive as well. So were Browner and Sherman. Just sayin.

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SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need

Curry part II....over commits since his motor is running too fast.

But honestly, it is way to early to say that. I hope he can get to what Pete "thinks" he can.

I think Irvin needs to learn and perfect some "get-around" moves, like a spin-move, or swim-move. Bull-rushing around the outside is simply not going to cut it.

Until he can stop getting pushed around the back side of the pocket, and can effectively get on a straight trajectory to the QB, he's simply going to be dancing with the tackle all the time.

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"God bless America, and God bless the Seattle Seahawks" - Cortez Kennedy

Did you even notice that the team was in soft zone coverage and Kolb was getting the ball out of there fast...? Even Skelton was doing it, That negates pass rush.

If it helps leads to a Super Bowl in the next couple of years, yes.

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My single greatest contribution to the board: "42-13" (formerly 24-14)

I saw signs of a pretty wicked looking hump move during that Oakland game. With his burst, he'll get guys selling out to beat him to the edge (because he'll eventually start toasting people around the corner). All he has to do then is plant that outside foot hard and shoot inside while shoving his man along with the inside hand. That move put Reggie White in Canton. While I don't necessarily see it getting Irvin into the HOF, it'll get him a Pro Bowl or two if he keeps developing it. Speed kils after all.

Dude has great athleticism and a super high ceiling. All these comparisons to Aaron Curry are way too premature, we're one game in. I think right now, he's playing too reserved because he's afraid to screw up. He seems concerned with all those classic DE things like setting the edge, outside containment and all that shit, but that's not his job. He just needs to let loose and uncork it; be a QB killer. He's a ballistic missile and once he starts playing like it....... whoo doggie! It'll just happen one day, he'll have a 3 sack day and all the doubters and nervous nellies will feel really stupid for prognosticating his failure once it does.

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Papaki douchebag love turtle long time

When the Thunder play the Grizzlies, I'll be cheering for a tornado.

Rodger that. I'm just saying that the first place to look when troubleshooting a failure is what has changed from when it was working.

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"Improvement" can come from who you play-

It is a fact that a player's performance in his first regular season game is indicative of his overall value.

You know, like this guy:

http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2 ... awk14.html

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Give me some damn skittles...