I know this is way premature, but as my bitches like to point out, I do all things premature (especially when shooting from the hip).

I find myself salivating at the thought of a Peppers or Mathews type on the Seahawks roster. Not only do they change field position, it's as if their playing offense from a defensive position. Their rush, changes everything. And, yeah, would help an offense with a rookie QB and questionable receivers.

This is year 3, and if this year doesn't work, it COULD be hotseat time for Carroll. He has to know that, so I'm not sure this staff can necessarily afford Irvin to be a project. Even if he lives up to the draft day haters prognostication, 10 sacks, that'd change so many things.

You cant have a losing season, and a draft day pick that drew tons of head-tilts, can you?

Man, they need to manufacture ways to get him going. He's got speed, tenacity and at least in college a knack for finding QB's. There's GOT TO a way to utilize that, outside of a hand down, dont ya think?

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@ryanadamdavis

I'm with you...you don't take "projects" in the first round.

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@SeahawkGreg

Well, not at this stage at least.

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@ryanadamdavis

Sadly it's looking like that is exactly what's going on. He has not impressed me at all. Hope he gets going sooner than later if ever.

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Yet another entry in the "List of Threads that Should Not Exist Before a Player's Eighth Game at the Very Earliest".

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...and yet you visited and posted.

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@SeahawkGreg

I hear ya, man. Watching Matthews and Peppers is a thing of beauty and I find myself envious. I wanted Chandler Jones and he definitely coudlve made an immediate impact. I don't see how a project in Irvin can be that much better than Jones once all is said and done.

Easy there, wannabe mod. The question was can they AFFORD him to be a project. I am not willing to say one way or another. I dont know if he will or wont.

A good rule of thumb is to understand a thread before you criticize it, Sugarpants.

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@ryanadamdavis

Only safe low first round picks guys! Would JPP been a bad pick? Is Vernon Ghoulston a bad pick? Wait no not what I meant!

Half Kidding aside, I don't think they can afford him to be a project that gives zero value this year. I think that will hurt the team quite a bit. Assuming no one else steps up as the other edge threat.

If he can be fairly effective in part time play by the second half of the year, it's fine in my opinion for him to be a bit of a non factor now. Not that's what I'd like but more realistic expectations. I think it's still early to have a good sense of what he's gonna bring this year. Hopefully some stuff clicks and he goes off a few times. It might take a bit though.

Pass rushers take time, they might have wanted to bring a vet as insurance, maybe even Mark Anderson if he proves healthy.

I think you take the guy with higher upside, I feel while we may feel this is OUR window starting right now, but I feel Pete and John are still very much looking ahead. We have to have a pass rusher waiting in the wings for when Clem is gone. While maybe other picks may have provided more immediate value, Bruce provides potentially huge value at a key position.

So yeah, the Hawks can afford it. Maybe it hurts them at times this year, but I think the end benefit, assuming he turns out, is good enough.

See Montana, he got it. Maybe sound out the words?

When the Giants took JPP, didn't they have Strahan, Osi, and a freak line already?

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@ryanadamdavis

Well, it depends. If Clemons and Jones produce enough pressure, then I think they can afford to have him have a learning curve this year. If not, and we're relying on him to be a big part of the pass rush, then we'd better hope he turns it on quick.

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FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ

Setting the timing of the question aside, it's a legit question. I think some teams have the luxury to pick a first rounder who doesn't necessarily have to make an immediate impact, but Seattle isn't really one of them. This was/is one of my major issues with the Carpenter pick. He may turn out to be a stud LG, but he was horrid at RT, and you'll never convince me that there weren't better options at that position either later in the draft or in FA...or hell, on our roster. Again, if he turns out to be a stud then all will be forgiven, but the immediate impact (postive) I think teams like ours needed did not happen.

As for Irvin? Admittedly, I wanted Cox at that pick, but after some headscratching, I came around to like the pick and can appreciate his potential...big time...but I cannot help but feel he is a project. My sincerest hope is that, like Wilson, now that he's had a taste of NFL athleticism he'll be able to QUICKLY mature and work on all the technical aspects that will be essential to his game. IF he does it quickly, then Pete and John will look like geniuses BUT the way things have looked so far indicate that we'll have to be patient. And let's face it, after a long string of losing seasons, patience is wearing thin.

Objectively, if guys like Irvin and Carpenter turn into high-caliber players, even if it takes a season or two, then I'm happy, but in the short term my teeth are being worn down. My point is this: the team can afford a project much more than it can a bust, but IMO those projects all need to be accelerated.

sure they can. That is IF the secondary really is as good as most on this board think they are. The Clemmons resigning was huge, it takes some pressure off of Irvin. Remember Jason Peirre Paul was drafted roughly the same spot in 2010. He had a whole 4.5 sacks as a rookie, only to burst out his 2nd year with 16. Just because a few players have played well right from the start, you shouldn't be deluded into thinking that everyone is the same. The truth is most players take a year or 2 to reach their potential. Look at Chancellor played sparingly as a rookie, but you can hardly be disappointed in that considering he's now a team leader.

I beleive Irvin will get better each and every game and it may not be until NOV, but I think he'll have an impact on this team. I agree with the above person who said, give him half a season. If he's still not doing anything than give him a hard time. I don't understand the extreme impatience on this board. If a guy isn't playing great right out the gates it's panic mode on here.

Under few circumstances do I think PC on the "hot-seat" at the end of the year. We had the talent to win 8-10 games this year. If we don't reach this range than I'll be extremely disappointed. If we don't get to that number than we'll most likely have our answers concerning the long term status of our QB's.

@Jkent82, spot on just because you and others think our window is open I don't and I'm confident JS/PC are far nearer my stance than yours.

Hell NO! I want success NOW!

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"Some people here have been groomed to accept mediocrity and lame ducks, I'm on board with the vibrato!" -SouthSoundHawk

Bitter pill to swallow (but I'm man enough to swallow).

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@ryanadamdavis

I'm wondering the same thing. Not because I dislike Irvin. I like him a lot, and I think he'll be a good player.

I'm speaking entirely in hypotheticals here, not making projections.

For 2012, yeah, we need him now. 1st round picks don't need to start, but they need to at least make some big plays. The team isn't constructed to survive without a situational edge rusher who can bring the pressure.

Of course, it's dumb to judge a pick by their first year. You draft for the future. But we are in trouble if we don't get pressure from Irvin, and Carroll needs at least a season like last year (where we all think the team is progressing, even if we aren't hugely successful). Just the way it is in the NFL.

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Sarlacc, on comparing .NET to Soccer: And why not? It's a bunch of people running around in circles, feigning pain, and never scoring.

Agree with Montana here. It's one game, and he did get pressure in that game. And to be fair, nobody on the d line except Mebane got much in the way of penetration. But already we have a thread with project and Pete in the same sentence as "hotseat"

Chandler Jones gets one sack in a game where his team is ahead and he's the "should have beenLet's give it a little more time and have a little more confidence in Petes abilities.

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Joe Vellano, DT, 6'1", 300lbs, 61 tkls 14 TFL, 6 sacks" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc_yzeVi-eU, Mike Catapano 6'4" 271
QB Jordan Rodgers 6'1" 212# 2539 Yards, 60% completion 15td/5int

At this point our pass rush looks like every year since 84. So, let him play.

I may be only an amateur psychologist, but I doubt the thread would exist if you weren't worried that he will be a project.

FWIW, I expect Irvin to get more chances against Dallas' offense. Romo doesn't like the quick dink-and-dunk stuff that Arizona used to dodge our edge rush; he prefers to wind up and look for a 400-yard touchdown on every play.

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