1st Round Pass Catchers

Mtjhoyas

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I can see the appeal of Allen Robinson but he does play like a smaller, fast WR. He doesn't seem to be a natural high pointer, which really scares me. I think that's just an innate ability. I don't question his athleticism, but high pointing is about timing, physicality, strong hands. While I like Robinson, I don't see those qualities. I'd rather gamble on Benjamin or settle for Landry/Beckham who, despite height, are much better jump ball/red line guys than Robinson and Coleman for that matter.

I've seen the Demaryius Thomas comp, but I vehemently disagree with that. Thomas is a rare, rare physical specimen. He's 20 lbs heavier and runs a legit 4.38-42. I expect Robinson to run in the 4.5s.

I would also like to double dip at WR and take a shot on Martavis Bryant. His upside is incredible and is another big body with wheels.
 

kigenzun

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Allen Robinson in the 1st (or early second if we trade down a little bit) and Martavis Bryant in the 4th, to double dip!!!, NOW WE'RE TALKING!
:th2thumbs:
 

theENGLISHseahawk

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bbsplitter":34s66i3b said:
Sooo.... Naturally that means that there will be more quality depth of WR's in the later rounds... right?

No, it means there are some really good receivers with first round grades that are ideal for this team and you'd be fighting the board for no reason not tapping into it.

SDHawk":34s66i3b said:
If the Seahawks had a 6'3 215lbs Golden Tate, then we would have a guy like that.


It's not just about being 6-3. It's the style of the receiver. You keep bringing up Demaryius Thomas who, with respect, is nothing like Allen Robinson.
 

SDHawk

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I mentioned him twice. Once because he is 6'3. I'm sorry. Is he not? And once because of Robinson's screen game and YAC ability. I happen to think crabtree is a better comparison but crab is too small by your standards at just 6'1
 

Attyla the Hawk

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I've been keen on Robinson since before the college season. But even I don't see him as a first round talent.

I still like him. But there are definite warts to his game. In particular, I really don't like the absolute disinterest he displays when pass plays are not called. He has absolutely zero attitude when a run is called. It is so bad, that you can simply watch him out of his stance and instantly know if it's a run well before the ball is even handed off. I would think that would be a real tough sell for us, because every single WR that has made this roster out of training camp blocks and does it with purpose.

That attribute alone could be enough to completely strike him off our board.

As a receiver, he aggressively gets the ball. He is athletic, can leap and high point the ball well. Tracks the ball well. And while we often times give allowance to receivers who have poor QB complements to the passing game (Coleman), Robinson broke Bobby Engram's receiving records snaring passes from a freshman QB this year. He was amazingly productive and well rounded in the receiving aspect of his game. Despite having less than optimal conditions from the QB aspect of the passing game.

I still see Robinson as a day 2 guy. For me, he's kind of at or near the top of the tier 2 guys -- but there is very little separation between him and others at the top of that class. The combine is going to be important because of that lack of separation. And if it too fails to provide any clarity, then we could be looking at a clear trade back scenario if WR is our first selection.
 

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I don't know why, I just have a feeling Donte Moncrief is gonna be a steal in the mid rounds.
 

Mtjhoyas

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I decided to go and watch more Allen Robinson last night. Here are a few observations from my perspective:

Positives: Faster than I expected. Doesn't look pretty but he does run by guys.
YAC is really good, though most of it seems close to the LOS (is that redundant?)
Pretty good separation.
Playmaker

Negatives: Really unnatural catching the ball. Saw a ton of slight bobbles.
Not a very good/natural route runner - really "leggy"
Not a natural High Pointer. Does not naturally use height as advantage.

My overall opinion: Robinson has a lot to like and quite a bit that worries me. He truly plays like a 6' tall WR. He offers really underrated game speed (not sure how he will test) but a lot of his big plays came from YAC at the LOS or quite a few busted coverages down field. He showed a few catches where it looked like he high pointed the ball, but after further review, he doesn't maximize that ability at all despite really good athleticism and length. Additionally, there were far too many body catches and slight bobbles, aka doesn't look like a natural catcher to me.

Seahawks Outlook: I really don't think Robinson is the type of player we need. He offers good upside but the things he struggles with are the skills I don't think one can just "learn." High pointing and natural hands are just innate abilities. It's really a shame IMO, because he looks the part of the guy that we are currently missing on this team. Would love him in R2, but wouldn't want him in R1. I still like Beckham, Landry, and the upside of Kelvin Benjamin more than Robinson and would prefer to go that route, and offset one of those 3 with another, later round WR who offers a different skill set. ie Draft Beckham/Landry in R1, then go Martavis Bryant or Cody Hoffman later in the draft. Or draft Kelvin Benjamin in R1 and draft an Austin Franklin type later in the draft. Just my opinion...
 

jhern87

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... Is everyone assuming Marqise Lee will be gone as well? Because I think it's Watkins / Lee >>> Every other WR in this class.
 

Attyla the Hawk

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jhern87":3dc5s0o4 said:
... Is everyone assuming Marqise Lee will be gone as well? Because I think it's Watkins / Lee >>> Every other WR in this class.

Yes, pretty much that. He's expected to go in the late teens to early 20s. He could drop, but I rather doubt that. He'd have to pass by the Chiefs and Panthers. Those teams probably have WR as their #1 need. Should we win against SF, then they'd be a third team that would pick before us likely to take Lee.

One player to watch closely is Jordan Matthews at Mobile. I'm sure there will be Senior Bowl threads to come. Seattle is well known for cementing their evaluations of players there. Matthews is a good prospect and worthy of late round 1 consideration.

He likely will very much intrigue Seattle as he's a very heady player who has an established hunger to get better. He should impress in person when they talk to him. His first response to getting a Senior Bowl invite: He requested tape on the Senior Bowl corners to study in the weeks before practices. He's got talent and he does the little things.
 

theENGLISHseahawk

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SDHawk":1ieys1un said:
I mentioned him twice. Once because he is 6'3. I'm sorry. Is he not? And once because of Robinson's screen game and YAC ability. I happen to think crabtree is a better comparison but crab is too small by your standards at just 6'1

I can't agree with that comparison either to be fair. Crabtree is nothing like Robinson from what I've seen. He had amazing YAC ability too at Texas Tech, but the two players are/were just completely different. Crabtree hasn't got Robinson's speed and shiftiness, but he has the best hands of any receiver I've seen entering the NFL, amazing body control and competitiveness.

Robinson for me is Percy Harvin-lite. He might be tall, but his game is predicated on getting it into his hands quickly and letting him do the rest. He's nowhere near as explosive as Harvin, but that's the style of receiver we're talking about here.

Seattle, in fairness, has the elite of the elite in that category. They really need a possession receiver with big time physical upside.
 

MontanaHawk05

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bbsplitter":3fryzi2m said:
theENGLISHseahawk":3fryzi2m said:
bbsplitter":3fryzi2m said:
And secondly, we have supposedly found our "franchise QB" and I would love it if the front office started placing more importance on protecting him.

Two first round picks (including two in their first two drafts), extended the contract of a previous second round pick, spent big money on a guard that is no longer with the team, signed one of the most expensive offensive line coaches in the NFL.

Seattle have put a lot of importance on the offensive line, and when Okung and Breno have been healthy, the line has done it's job.

Wilson's development will not be highly impacted by a first round guard. It could easily be impacted with a top notch big receiver who can be a third down and red zone demon.

Besides, we're talking about what looks like it could potentially be a legendary draft for receivers with as many as 5-6 going in round one. To put it bluntly, it's a crap year for guards in round one.

Sooo.... Naturally that means that there will be more quality depth of WR's in the later rounds... right? And not so many Guards worth a crap later on? No, at first it didn't effect Wilsons development, now he is conveniently having a cold streak right after a long stretch of O line injuries and bad play. He is Mr. happy feet back there and a big factor is a crap line.

Soooo.... We have put all this importance on the line in the past and if that's the case then...we just randomly stop doing that this year? You say they gave a guard "big money", well, take his contract and compare it to other "big money" guards on other teams. It's not really, and that's the point.

You're merely buying into the usual cliche that offensive line is everything in the NFL. Fact is, it's massively overrated as a factor amongst journeyman analysts. Super Bowls have recently been won by teams with both excellent and perfectly average offensive lines. Quarterback is generally the consistent factor, and quarterbacks are arguably enhanced by wide receiver skill.

And you don't have any way to prove that Wilson has been ruined by O-line play, nor does anyone else. He looked terrific in the pocket just six weeks ago. David Carr and Marc Bulger were crummy quarterbacks in their own right, quarterbacks whose sack rate followed them to other teams with better O-lines while the O-lines they left behind looked better with other QB's. They were not ruined by their offensive lines; they ruined themselves. The all-encompassing importance of the offensive line for the passing game is a tiresome myth that needs to be violently deflated to its proper size.

I will throw something if they spend yet another first-rounder on a guard, especially with Michael Bowie looking very promising and our stable of red-zone targets being lacking.
 

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theENGLISHseahawk":3k3bxsa7 said:
I think we need to consider what Seattle really needs here.

I like Allen Robinson at Penn State. But he's at his best when you put the ball in his hands and let him run at defenders. He's tall -- 6-3 -- but he's around 205-210lbs and looks relatively skinny. For me he's a YAC specialist. And while he will make plays downfield, it's not his absolute greatest strength.

The Seahawks have guys like that, and I fully expect them to find a way to re-sign Tate. Harvin isn't going anywhere before 2014 and will get a chance to bounce back.

What the team needs is a big target -- 6-5/6-6 -- enormous frame. Someone who can box out defenders, compete physically in the air, provide a safety net and be a possession receiver with benefits (aka speed).

This draft has three players who fit that bill. Mike Evans, who should be a top-15 pick and out of reach. He would be ideal, the absolute dream of a pick for this team. Kelvin Benjamin is not my favourite, but he has a ton of potential and maybe playing for an uber competitive team like Seattle will get a spark going there for him to work harder (and if that happens, watch out). And Brandon Coleman is the other one -- technique wise not the finished product but I've not seen a 6-6, 220lbs monster do what he can do before. He could be another Josh Gordon and his potential is ridiculous.

A report via Dan Pompei last week had both Benjamin and Coleman listed as late first rounders via an anonymous NFL GM or scout (can't remember which).

They are the three players, right now, I want to see this team targeting -- and I don't even like Benjamin that much. But I'd accept the pick because that's the need.

Wouldn't Martavius Bryant also be a big target type? He was playing under the shadow of Watkins but seemed like Clemson's redzone threat.
 

Attyla the Hawk

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MontanaHawk05":44q4szwc said:
You're merely buying into the usual cliche that offensive line is everything in the NFL. Fact is, it's massively overrated as a factor amongst journeyman analysts. Super Bowls have recently been won by teams with both excellent and perfectly average offensive lines. Quarterback is generally the consistent factor, and quarterbacks are arguably enhanced by wide receiver skill.

...
I will throw something if they spend yet another first-rounder on a guard, especially with Michael Bowie looking very promising and our stable of red-zone targets being lacking.

Apologies up front. This reply kind of got away from me.

I'm similarly dubious of the idea that a red zone big target is the panacea of this offense.

Is it lacking? It is now. But Sidney Rice was that player for us and we didn't make use of him to a measurable degree in that fashion. Rice is faster than Benjamin or Evans. He's definitely got better hands and ball skills than either of those two.

Seattle, whether by design or by QB choice, doesn't really attempt these 'jump ball' kinds of plays. We don't do it in the red zone and we don't do it between the 20s. It seems to me a classic case of transferring what we see as missing versus how this offense WANTS to operate.

This offense is about ball control. It's about limiting the opponents' ability to score. Good defense, good running, lack of turnovers and efficiency are the mother's milk of that strategy.

We have not wanted to or tried to use a big red zone target. Recall the ONE time we did that against Jacksonville. Wilson admitted it was an ad lib play where he didn't really want to throw it but -- well it was Jacksonville and we were curb stomping them and he said, "Ok I'll trust you". I don't think Wilson wants to throw jump balls. He doesn't do it. I don't think it fits with our blueprint for winning. It's risky and that goes against what we're about.

Even if we got a Benjamin or a Coleman, I don't see Wilson trusting them to a degree that the big red zone target even manifests itself. Coleman or Benjamin are going to have to get open. Not just be taller. That's something other teams and QBs do. It's not our thing and I don't think adding more will make it our thing.

Looking at the difference between last year and this year, it's obvious to me that the indicators would suggest we go a different route.

Our rushing dropped by almost 20% per game over last years' production. Was some of that due to injuries on the line? Sure. But even at full strength, our rushing attack has been considerably less effective this year.

Despite having the #1 defense in terms of turnovers forced, yards allowed and points allowed, our TOP ranked in the bottom third of the NFL. Even a no huddle pass happy offense should be in the top half of the league in TOP with a defense that dominant. If our defense was merely good in the 8-10th overall range our TOP would probably be in the bottom 3 of the entire NFL.

This offense is predicated on a stout rushing attack, and we've not been achieving that. Regularly. Even at full strength. We dropped from 5th in yards per attempt down to 12th this year.

The TOP difference is a big indicator for me. Because our efficiency overall for the year was fairly consistent. Our 3rd down conversions dropped significantly, our sacks allowed went from 23rd in Wilson's rookie year to dead last in the NFL this year. Our red zone TD scoring barely dropped at all over last year and was still in the top third of the NFL at 11th (down from 10th last year).

I don't see red zone scoring (or the lack of it) as being an issue for us at all. Our scoring and our efficiency in scoring TDs when we get there remain virtually unchanged. In fact, our points per play and points per game increased over last year.

What has changed, is our ability to move the ball in between the 20s to even get to the red zone in the first place. Our TOP and conversion rates are poor. And outside of scoring, that affects our primary goals of limiting the opponents' ability to score. It is one of the fundamental components of our overall strategy and it's floundering.

We need chain movers. Pure and simple. If we're talking WR, then we need options that Wilson will actually pull the trigger on passes for. Not add options that Wilson is going to avoid due to our tenet of take care of the ball. Jump balls is NOT taking care of the ball. It's going to have virtually no impact for Seattle. For other NFL teams who are less risk averse, a big target is more appealing. But we simply don't call those passes and we don't throw them when the opportunity presents itself. Even when we have Rice on the field who is excellent at that kind of pass. Wilson is not Favre or Cutler and isn't willing to throw it up for grabs like that.

It's easy to think that all we need is just one piece to score points and change everything. But the fact is, we have those pieces to score points and when we get into scoring position, we are scoring at a top five clip. Our problem is uglier and not as sexy and not a one player fix. We have to get into scoring position more frequently. We need to string first down conversions together at a better rate. We do more than fine when we get to where we need to be. We just don't get there enough.

Even though I will concede that we aren't the 32nd rated pass pro line when assuming an average degree of attrition on the OL -- we are also very clearly in the bottom 5 of the league in that category. Which is doubly poor since we do possess a potent rushing attack and we use play action regularly which limits a pass rush by design. We should be immeasurably better at protecting Russell.

But if we aren't going that route, then we need to get receiving options for Russell that he will actually throw to. Guys who can get open and be trusted to catch the ball. Guys that will fight for 50-50 balls. Quite honestly, other than Evans, I don't see that in Coleman's or Benjamin's repertoire. They are passive WRs that just don't attack the ball. And I think that will doom them when we grade them.

I'm very skeptical that getting a big red zone target will have any effect for this offense. It's just that it goes against everything we know this team wants to do to win. And, I have to admit, that I don't see Coleman or Benjamin as being capable of being as good as Rice is. He brings so much more to the table than those two in receiving skills. He has the hops, the skills, the speed, the size. Rice is still the complete package outside of availability. And despite that, we don't do the jump ball thing when he's starting.

The one thing I would concede, is Coleman looks like a red line target we'd use. His size and more importantly, his ramp up speed -- really looks like attributes that Russell can identify and make use of. Coleman has that extra gear when he gets 5-8 yards downfield where he can shake free of corners when he forces them to flip their hips. He has that ability to separate and shake free on a go route.

But his other routes look awkward and he doesn't show really any quickness out of breaks. That limits about 2/3 of the route tree unless he can get better at that.
 

Mr.Hawkbrah

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^I could see the argument that a big red zone target wouldn't be as useful on our team compared to others, although I don't really agree with it. ... But to say a 6 4 we would have no effect in the red Zone..... :pukeface:

Imo Sidney rice is similar to "I'm Jimmy", used to being bigger and faster than everyone, and uses that to compensate for their lack of physicality. Tate fights for the ball ten times harder than Sidney rice, I just don't see that jump ball ability in him you and many others claim he has. Even if I'm wrong and he's not bad at jump balls, He's certainly not excellent at it, rice is severely overrated.

You're right though, Seattle doesn't use the jump ball much, it could be too much risk like you said, or...
Maybe we had money invested in to a guy that sucked at it? Maybe they've Been waiting for the right tools and the right time to implement this part of the passing attack. I do agree throwing jump balls to wrs like ours is risky, but a good big physical wr will not only fight to catch the ball, will also play defense when needed as well.

This seems to be the Draft year for big wrs, and the need is there, so I guess this time next year we should have our answers.
 

SDHawk

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Attyla the Hawk":1vhp92wi said:
MontanaHawk05":1vhp92wi said:
You're merely buying into the usual cliche that offensive line is everything in the NFL. Fact is, it's massively overrated as a factor amongst journeyman analysts. Super Bowls have recently been won by teams with both excellent and perfectly average offensive lines. Quarterback is generally the consistent factor, and quarterbacks are arguably enhanced by wide receiver skill.

...
I will throw something if they spend yet another first-rounder on a guard, especially with Michael Bowie looking very promising and our stable of red-zone targets being lacking.

Apologies up front. This reply kind of got away from me.

I'm similarly dubious of the idea that a red zone big target is the panacea of this offense.

Is it lacking? It is now. But Sidney Rice was that player for us and we didn't make use of him to a measurable degree in that fashion. Rice is faster than Benjamin or Evans. He's definitely got better hands and ball skills than either of those two.

Seattle, whether by design or by QB choice, doesn't really attempt these 'jump ball' kinds of plays. We don't do it in the red zone and we don't do it between the 20s. It seems to me a classic case of transferring what we see as missing versus how this offense WANTS to operate.

This offense is about ball control. It's about limiting the opponents' ability to score. Good defense, good running, lack of turnovers and efficiency are the mother's milk of that strategy.

We have not wanted to or tried to use a big red zone target. Recall the ONE time we did that against Jacksonville. Wilson admitted it was an ad lib play where he didn't really want to throw it but -- well it was Jacksonville and we were curb stomping them and he said, "Ok I'll trust you". I don't think Wilson wants to throw jump balls. He doesn't do it. I don't think it fits with our blueprint for winning. It's risky and that goes against what we're about.

Even if we got a Benjamin or a Coleman, I don't see Wilson trusting them to a degree that the big red zone target even manifests itself. Coleman or Benjamin are going to have to get open. Not just be taller. That's something other teams and QBs do. It's not our thing and I don't think adding more will make it our thing.

Looking at the difference between last year and this year, it's obvious to me that the indicators would suggest we go a different route.

Our rushing dropped by almost 20% per game over last years' production. Was some of that due to injuries on the line? Sure. But even at full strength, our rushing attack has been considerably less effective this year.

Despite having the #1 defense in terms of turnovers forced, yards allowed and points allowed, our TOP ranked in the bottom third of the NFL. Even a no huddle pass happy offense should be in the top half of the league in TOP with a defense that dominant. If our defense was merely good in the 8-10th overall range our TOP would probably be in the bottom 3 of the entire NFL.

This offense is predicated on a stout rushing attack, and we've not been achieving that. Regularly. Even at full strength. We dropped from 5th in yards per attempt down to 12th this year.

The TOP difference is a big indicator for me. Because our efficiency overall for the year was fairly consistent. Our 3rd down conversions dropped significantly, our sacks allowed went from 23rd in Wilson's rookie year to dead last in the NFL this year. Our red zone TD scoring barely dropped at all over last year and was still in the top third of the NFL at 11th (down from 10th last year).

I don't see red zone scoring (or the lack of it) as being an issue for us at all. Our scoring and our efficiency in scoring TDs when we get there remain virtually unchanged. In fact, our points per play and points per game increased over last year.

What has changed, is our ability to move the ball in between the 20s to even get to the red zone in the first place. Our TOP and conversion rates are poor. And outside of scoring, that affects our primary goals of limiting the opponents' ability to score. It is one of the fundamental components of our overall strategy and it's floundering.

We need chain movers. Pure and simple. If we're talking WR, then we need options that Wilson will actually pull the trigger on passes for. Not add options that Wilson is going to avoid due to our tenet of take care of the ball. Jump balls is NOT taking care of the ball. It's going to have virtually no impact for Seattle. For other NFL teams who are less risk averse, a big target is more appealing. But we simply don't call those passes and we don't throw them when the opportunity presents itself. Even when we have Rice on the field who is excellent at that kind of pass. Wilson is not Favre or Cutler and isn't willing to throw it up for grabs like that.

It's easy to think that all we need is just one piece to score points and change everything. But the fact is, we have those pieces to score points and when we get into scoring position, we are scoring at a top five clip. Our problem is uglier and not as sexy and not a one player fix. We have to get into scoring position more frequently. We need to string first down conversions together at a better rate. We do more than fine when we get to where we need to be. We just don't get there enough.

Even though I will concede that we aren't the 32nd rated pass pro line when assuming an average degree of attrition on the OL -- we are also very clearly in the bottom 5 of the league in that category. Which is doubly poor since we do possess a potent rushing attack and we use play action regularly which limits a pass rush by design. We should be immeasurably better at protecting Russell.

But if we aren't going that route, then we need to get receiving options for Russell that he will actually throw to. Guys who can get open and be trusted to catch the ball. Guys that will fight for 50-50 balls. Quite honestly, other than Evans, I don't see that in Coleman's or Benjamin's repertoire. They are passive WRs that just don't attack the ball. And I think that will doom them when we grade them.

I'm very skeptical that getting a big red zone target will have any effect for this offense. It's just that it goes against everything we know this team wants to do to win. And, I have to admit, that I don't see Coleman or Benjamin as being capable of being as good as Rice is. He brings so much more to the table than those two in receiving skills. He has the hops, the skills, the speed, the size. Rice is still the complete package outside of availability. And despite that, we don't do the jump ball thing when he's starting.

The one thing I would concede, is Coleman looks like a red line target we'd use. His size and more importantly, his ramp up speed -- really looks like attributes that Russell can identify and make use of. Coleman has that extra gear when he gets 5-8 yards downfield where he can shake free of corners when he forces them to flip their hips. He has that ability to separate and shake free on a go route.

But his other routes look awkward and he doesn't show really any quickness out of breaks. That limits about 2/3 of the route tree unless he can get better at that.

This is why I want the best football player rather than the best football body. Our FO values players that can turn low risk plays into big results. I also suspect the FO covets players that can maximize Wilson's ability to extend plays. Robinson will fight to get open and come back to his QB when the play is dead.
 

SDHawk

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Mr.Hawkbrah":moy36b63 said:
Sidney rice, I just don't see that jump ball ability in him you and many others claim he has. Even if I'm wrong and he's not bad at jump balls, He's certainly not excellent at it, rice is severely overrated.
.

One example is that catch he made against the Jags on the pass RW lofted.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-high ... 23-yard-TD

I think you're wrong... Sidney Rice had a huge radius and was great at making catches away from the body. His issue was getting separation. These are similar issues with Coleman.

KB doesnt have the best hands. As Attyla pointed out, a few drops can go a long ways towards destroying any goodwill the QB or coaching staff may have had in your size and potential for winning 50/50s.
 

bbsplitter

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MontanaHawk05":1zmgw7ba said:
bbsplitter":1zmgw7ba said:
theENGLISHseahawk":1zmgw7ba said:
bbsplitter":1zmgw7ba said:
And secondly, we have supposedly found our "franchise QB" and I would love it if the front office started placing more importance on protecting him.

Two first round picks (including two in their first two drafts), extended the contract of a previous second round pick, spent big money on a guard that is no longer with the team, signed one of the most expensive offensive line coaches in the NFL.

Seattle have put a lot of importance on the offensive line, and when Okung and Breno have been healthy, the line has done it's job.

Wilson's development will not be highly impacted by a first round guard. It could easily be impacted with a top notch big receiver who can be a third down and red zone demon.

Besides, we're talking about what looks like it could potentially be a legendary draft for receivers with as many as 5-6 going in round one. To put it bluntly, it's a crap year for guards in round one.

Sooo.... Naturally that means that there will be more quality depth of WR's in the later rounds... right? And not so many Guards worth a crap later on? No, at first it didn't effect Wilsons development, now he is conveniently having a cold streak right after a long stretch of O line injuries and bad play. He is Mr. happy feet back there and a big factor is a crap line.

Soooo.... We have put all this importance on the line in the past and if that's the case then...we just randomly stop doing that this year? You say they gave a guard "big money", well, take his contract and compare it to other "big money" guards on other teams. It's not really, and that's the point.

You're merely buying into the usual cliche that offensive line is everything in the NFL. Fact is, it's massively overrated as a factor amongst journeyman analysts. Super Bowls have recently been won by teams with both excellent and perfectly average offensive lines. Quarterback is generally the consistent factor, and quarterbacks are arguably enhanced by wide receiver skill.

And you don't have any way to prove that Wilson has been ruined by O-line play, nor does anyone else. He looked terrific in the pocket just six weeks ago. David Carr and Marc Bulger were crummy quarterbacks in their own right, quarterbacks whose sack rate followed them to other teams with better O-lines while the O-lines they left behind looked better with other QB's. They were not ruined by their offensive lines; they ruined themselves. The all-encompassing importance of the offensive line for the passing game is a tiresome myth that needs to be violently deflated to its proper size.

I will throw something if they spend yet another first-rounder on a guard, especially with Michael Bowie looking very promising and our stable of red-zone targets being lacking.

And you are buying into the cliché that one big wide receiver will have that much more an impact than a solid o-line. Much less, in a system that under-utilizes wide receivers besides in blocking.

Yet ANOTHER first round guard? You mean besides the ONE other time they have done that? So it doesn't work the first time you just stop trying?

I'm not comprehending... Why the random comparison to horrible quarterbacks? I'm sure there are other examples I could randomly state to where a QB was harassed by a bad O-line and it stunts his development. Wilson has not been "ruined" by O-line as you say. But he has been influenced by them. Read any professionally written article about his "cold streak" right now and they all say its due to happy feet most likely caused by terrible o-line play.

We HAVE play makers at wide receiver. Look at any game where Wilson actually has time to throw, and all the sudden the passing numbers go up exponentially. Could we use a big WR? Yeah sure, but IMO I don't think that's what we should go after first in the draft.
 

bbsplitter

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SDHawk":2bxtgnz3 said:
Mr.Hawkbrah":2bxtgnz3 said:
Sidney rice, I just don't see that jump ball ability in him you and many others claim he has. Even if I'm wrong and he's not bad at jump balls, He's certainly not excellent at it, rice is severely overrated.
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One example is that catch he made against the Jags on the pass RW lofted.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-high ... 23-yard-TD

I think you're wrong... Sidney Rice had a huge radius and was great at making catches away from the body. His issue was getting separation. These are similar issues with Coleman.

KB doesnt have the best hands. As Attyla pointed out, a few drops can go a long ways towards destroying any goodwill the QB or coaching staff may have had in your size and potential for winning 50/50s.

I agree with your first point, although its good to keep in mind they stuck with Kearse who had problems dropping passes, and I would say he has much less talent than KB.
 
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