Interesting 49er Seahawks comparison I found

60niners":29i5whs3 said:

No intelligent retort? Just what I expected.

History means nothing, except when it's convenient to Seahawk fans.

Click to expand...

What do you want to hear? The Seahawks and Niners don't have any history before 2002. Out of the very few games that SEA/SF had prior to realignment, I remember very little being on the line.

loafoftatupu":2z8xkdog said:

60niners":2z8xkdog said:

No intelligent retort? Just what I expected.

History means nothing, except when it's convenient to Seahawk fans.

Click to expand...

What do you want to hear? The Seahawks and Niners don't have any history before 2002. Out of the very few games that SEA/SF had prior to realignment, I remember very little being on the line.

Click to expand...

I don't really want to hear anything.... Especially some [likely] pale overweight scrub talking about my supposed girlfriend.

Do you not find it a little extra-convenient that when Niner fans discuss history or historical feats you all roll your eyes in disgust, yet when those feats make shine a bright light on the Seahawks they become so apparently important. The NFL didn't cease to exist before 2002, and claiming superiority as far as 11 years back is no different than claiming the same thing for 15 years back.

60niners":skd5pejl said:

loafoftatupu":skd5pejl said:

60niners":skd5pejl said:

No intelligent retort? Just what I expected.

History means nothing, except when it's convenient to Seahawk fans.

Click to expand...

What do you want to hear? The Seahawks and Niners don't have any history before 2002. Out of the very few games that SEA/SF had prior to realignment, I remember very little being on the line.

Click to expand...

I don't really want to hear anything.... Especially some [likely] pale overweight scrub talking about my supposed girlfriend.

Do you not find it a little extra-convenient that when Niner fans discuss history or historical feats you all roll your eyes in disgust, yet when those feats make shine a bright light on the Seahawks they become so apparently important. The NFL didn't cease to exist before 2002, and claiming superiority as far as 11 years back is no different than claiming the same thing for 15 years back.

Click to expand...

Yet another case of the Whiners don't get it. We care just as much about the niner years before 2002, about as much as niner fans cared about the AFCW. What happened after realignment is all that really matters when talking about this rivalry..

As I've stated before, i was actually a Niner fan back in our AFC day's and a STL Rams fan before that, if the Seahawks weren't going to make it to the dance, i would root for either of those teams. I admire and respect their storied history and believe it's relevant in the grand scheme of things, but that history is where it belongs, in the past, to be remembered and cherished, NOT used as a reason why the SF 49ers are still the big dog in the division. What matters now to me is what's happened since we joined the conference, we're in the process of building our own history, and only now since 2002 is SF a part of it.

hawker84":e82qxy02 said:

Yet another case of the Whiners don't get it. We care just as much about the niner years before 2002, about as much as niner fans cared about the AFCW. What happened after realignment is all that really matters when talking about this rivalry..

As I've stated before, i was actually a Niner fan back in our AFC day's and a STL Rams fan before that, if the Seahawks weren't going to make it to the dance, i would root for either of those teams. I admire and respect their storied history and believe it's relevant in the grand scheme of things, but that history is where it belongs, in the past, to be remembered and cherished, NOT used as a reason why the SF 49ers are still the big dog in the division. What matters now to me is what's happened since we joined the conference, we're in the process of building our own history, and only now since 2002 is SF a part of it.

Click to expand...

I can totally respect the bolded section. Unfortunately this sentiment is lost when a lot of the Seahawk fans selectively quote wins or time durations or scores or any other measure which puts the hawks in a brighter light than the Niners. As much as you guys love to rub the score in our faces of the last two games played in Seattle, the bigger picture shows that over the last two years, the tally is 2-2. If you want to go a year prior, the tally becomes 4-2 in favor of the 49ers. Admittedly, I'd brag about the score too, but I'd also recognize that what matters at the end of the season is wins and losses, not points.

Last year was the Seahawks first winning season since 2007, yet most of you were demanding to be recognized as the king of the hill or best team in the league or some mystical unstoppable force lol... It just doesn't work that way. Like I said earlier, the sentiment behind your bolded statement gets lost behind that kind of braggadocio.

WTF is the point of this thread? Lol
Like I don't know the Niners sucked hard most of the 2000's?
But totally agree that realignment is the point where you would compare the franchises, hell that was rivalry year one.
this is such a phenomenal rivalry now, that's all that matters. There was nothing like this in the NFC west through the 80s and 90s, it was usually a cakewalk for us.
The Rams had some great offenses and the Saints had a monster D for about 8 years or so, but more or less is was a free ticket to the playoffs.
If both these clubs keep drafting well this is just the beginning.

60niners":6mhrutrl said:

loafoftatupu":6mhrutrl said:

60niners":6mhrutrl said:

No intelligent retort? Just what I expected.

History means nothing, except when it's convenient to Seahawk fans.

Click to expand...

What do you want to hear? The Seahawks and Niners don't have any history before 2002. Out of the very few games that SEA/SF had prior to realignment, I remember very little being on the line.

Click to expand...

I don't really want to hear anything.... Especially some [likely] pale overweight scrub talking about my supposed girlfriend.

Do you not find it a little extra-convenient that when Niner fans discuss history or historical feats you all roll your eyes in disgust, yet when those feats make shine a bright light on the Seahawks they become so apparently important. The NFL didn't cease to exist before 2002, and claiming superiority as far as 11 years back is no different than claiming the same thing for 15 years back.

Click to expand...

I don't roll my eyes in disgust. I loved watching those Niner teams kick ass. No one is saying the NFL didn't exist before 2002 either, I loved watching the Hawks from day 1 of their existence.

As much as Niner fans deny it, the Hawks became their rival after the first time Seattle beat SF as a member of the division, I remember all the crap that Niner fans said after realignment, the Hawks were going to be fodder for the Niners, just like AZ was supposed to be. After the first win in 2003, the Hawks immediately made the hate list and all the excuses started then. "What have they done?" Became a frequently used phrase.

That was after the first Seahawks win, they followed it up by getting the next 5 and Niner nation was fuming. SF fans made them a rival on their own. They pretended that the Hawks weren't relevant to them because of legacy success, but couldn't beat them. The 2002 thing is a factor, because before that no one cared what the other was doing. It doesn't matter to Niner fans because they want to pretend it never happened.

Weadoption":2utuv2pm said:

WTF is the point of this thread? Lol
Like I don't know the Niners sucked hard most of the 2000's?
But totally agree that realignment is the point where you would compare the franchises, hell that was rivalry year one.
this is such a phenomenal rivalry now, that's all that matters. There was nothing like this in the NFC west through the 80s and 90s, it was usually a cakewalk for us.
The Rams had some great offenses and the Saints had a monster D for about 8 years or so, but more or less is was a free ticket to the playoffs.
If both these clubs keep drafting well this is just the beginning.

Click to expand...

Pretty much dead on. I do remember tuning into those Rams/Niners games though. The Niners usually kicked the crap out of them. Lol.. the 89 NFCC, some Rams fan bet me 100 that the Rams would win. I made sure we watched that game together. You should have seen that guy squirming every time Everett went down. That was an epic ass whooping.

Talk about stupid. After the Rams left LA he Bailed on them and he lived in WA his whole life. I mean, really.. what's the difference to him?

I Almost forgot, those 80s Niners teams would have beat the crap out of the Hawks for 14 straight back in those days. I know that much. It wouldn't have mattered what division they were in, they would still be killing everyone.

loafoftatupu":3b635eu3 said:

60niners":3b635eu3 said:

loafoftatupu":3b635eu3 said:

60niners":3b635eu3 said:

No intelligent retort? Just what I expected.

History means nothing, except when it's convenient to Seahawk fans.

Click to expand...

What do you want to hear? The Seahawks and Niners don't have any history before 2002. Out of the very few games that SEA/SF had prior to realignment, I remember very little being on the line.

Click to expand...

I don't really want to hear anything.... Especially some [likely] pale overweight scrub talking about my supposed girlfriend.

Do you not find it a little extra-convenient that when Niner fans discuss history or historical feats you all roll your eyes in disgust, yet when those feats make shine a bright light on the Seahawks they become so apparently important. The NFL didn't cease to exist before 2002, and claiming superiority as far as 11 years back is no different than claiming the same thing for 15 years back.

Click to expand...

I don't roll my eyes in disgust. I loved watching those Niner teams kick ass. No one is saying the NFL didn't exist before 2002 either, I loved watching the Hawks from day 1 of their existence.

As much as Niner fans deny it, the Hawks became their rival after the first time Seattle beat SF as a member of the division, I remember all the crap that Niner fans said after realignment, the Hawks were going to be fodder for the Niners, just like AZ was supposed to be. After the first win in 2003, the Hawks immediately made the hate list and all the excuses started then. "What have they done?" Became a frequently used phrase.

That was after the first Seahawks win, they followed it up by getting the next 5 and Niner nation was fuming. SF fans made them a rival on their own. They pretended that the Hawks weren't relevant to them because of legacy success, but couldn't beat them. The 2002 thing is a factor, because before that no one cared what the other was doing. It doesn't matter to Niner fans because they want to pretend it never happened.

Click to expand...

Well I can't personally account for what happened in those early years of realignment, in fact I didn't watch much football at all. Throughout my schooling years I wouldn't be caught dead missing a game; but in 2000 I joined the Marines and through training and deployments I ended up missing entire years of football. I watched most of 2005 and from then on out I sort of caught bits and pieces until around 2009. 2009 is when the Seahawks really hit my radar as a team I should be antagonistic towards. In fact, I was totally rooting for the Hawks in the beast-mode game. My hatred for the Aint's goes back to the old NFCW days so I absolutely wanted any new NFCW representative to smash them.

*In the middle of this reply my laptop battery died so I completely lost train-of-thought*

Since I have no idea where I was going with that, I'll ask; if the Seahawks were dominating this rivalry, where did their fans distaste for the 49ers come from? Hard to hate a team that you always beat, right? I know the teams that I really can't stand, are the Cowboys, and the Raiders... Probably for separate reasons. I had nothing against the Seahawks. Don't take this the wrong way, but typically there's no reason for most people in CA to ever think of the northwest unless you have to go there for work, so it's not like there are non-sport-related reasons to dislike the Seahawks.

Most of our issues don't come from the Niners teams themselves, it's the terrible fan base (as a whole). I don't have a problem with anyone in this thread and most of the Niners fans that come here are all right in my book; usually it's just talking football with a bit of friendly smack talk.

The rest of the "Whiner" fan base is terrible. You ask why we would hate a team that we've beaten soundly since realignment. This is how it normally goes:

Hawks fan: "we're whooping that ass the last few times we've played"
Niners fan: "we've won the division the last 2 years what have you done?'
Hawks: and 5 of the last 7 before that, we won. what's the point ?"
Niners: "you've never done anything. we have 5 rings. talk to me when you win one"

So, you have a guy that's trying to diminish recent events with recent history. Then the retort is the history just previous. Then you get the fan who retorts that they've won championsips 20 years ago and to stfu. This is usually followed by "stupid seahawk fans, always using the past".

Most of the sh*t talking is myopic and hypocritical. 5 years ago means nothing now as both teams have barely any personnel from then. We both know that, but when you've lost 2 out of the last 3 games (or call it split the last 2 years) and by the points disparity that has happened and fans start spouting history it's because they don't want to face the present.

See how that can be annoying ? (and this stupid argument is repeated ad nauseum constantly, all the time).

Well I can't personally account for what happened in those early years of realignment, in fact I didn't watch much football at all. Throughout my schooling years I wouldn't be caught dead missing a game; but in 2000 I joined the Marines and through training and deployments I ended up missing entire years of football. I watched most of 2005 and from then on out I sort of caught bits and pieces until around 2009. 2009 is when the Seahawks really hit my radar as a team I should be antagonistic towards. In fact, I was totally rooting for the Hawks in the beast-mode game. My hatred for the Aint's goes back to the old NFCW days so I absolutely wanted any new NFCW representative to smash them.

*In the middle of this reply my laptop battery died so I completely lost train-of-thought*

Since I have no idea where I was going with that, I'll ask; if the Seahawks were dominating this rivalry, where did their fans distaste for the 49ers come from? Hard to hate a team that you always beat, right? I know the teams that I really can't stand, are the Cowboys, and the Raiders... Probably for separate reasons. I had nothing against the Seahawks. Don't take this the wrong way, but typically there's no reason for most people in CA to ever think of the northwest unless you have to go there for work, so it's not like there are non-sport-related reasons to dislike the Seahawks.[/quote]

The technical name for this post is Verbal Diarrhea

Coug_Hawk08":33ztf608 said:

Click to expand...

dont need a delorean to go back 10 months lol.

FriscosFinest":14p8c50o said:

Coug_Hawk08":14p8c50o said:

Click to expand...

dont need a delorean to go back 10 months lol.

Click to expand...

You don't? You can go back in time 10 months? That is impressive. You could make millions off this invention of yours.

FriscosFinest":swfbfv9c said:

Coug_Hawk08":swfbfv9c said:

Click to expand...

dont need a delorean to go back 10 months lol.

Click to expand...

I don't know why I am laughing so MUCH, but if you don't need a Delorean, what does it take to go back 10 months? Mushrooms?

HO-Lee Shit. I bet that sounded a lot smarter in your head than it looked in print.

loafoftatupu":3dcq36ul said:

60niners":3dcq36ul said:

Funny how you guys willingly scrap your history since it's convenient to your case. What happened in 2002 is no more or less relevant than what happened in 1992.

Click to expand...

Except that we never played the Niners with even remote frequency. We are talking about 5-6 times, until 2002. The relevancy is there.

Click to expand...

49ers have stank up the joint since 2003, thats for sure. 2011 was the turning point for this more recent rebuilt organization. For the 49ers to get a win at C-link in the playoffs, they have to beat the 12th man and the refs, no easy task. I'm pretty sure Seattle will be favored by many points in that game. It should be a good one if the 49ers are fortunate to have that chance to play up there.

Coug_Hawk08":7rvbrus1 said:

Click to expand...

LOL
I know I'd at least go back and give it Gore 3 times at the 5 yd line.

I think for this Seahawk/49er rivalry to have merit as it pertains to our current teams we should rewind to 2010, game 1. The intensity of the games seems ramped up dramatically over the 2002-2009 seasons, IMO. And Carroll had no idea that Harbaugh would eventually coach SF.

I do vividly remembering losing to the Seahawks in '03 or '04 (primetime) in Seattle and getting that feeling that that dynasty 49er team that was started in 1981 and hung on for two decades was done. A sucky Niner team that followed in '04 and '05 did little to harbor hatred for Seahawks, Cardinals, Rams, or any team. I rooted for the NFC West in every super bowl except the ones that Rams played in because when they were in, the 49ers were still very good. To me a Seahawks victory over Pittsburgh meant the Steelers wouldn't have 5 trophies (and Cards victory, 6 trophies).

The Rams have been annoying the last few years (last year big time), but their inability to have a winning season or division title tempers the rivalry from being the type of hatred it was in the '80s or even late '90s. The Giants have historically been my most hated team....peaked in the late '80s/early '90s, went away the rest of the '90s....restored briefly in 2002, then went away completely until 2011 when the 49ers were good again. It escalated very quickly back into a hatred as intense as the good ole days.

Now that they sucked this season, it's faded quite a bit but still there. Even though it would have benefited the 49ers if they beat the Seahawks last week, at a certain point I said...."Ok, they're clearly not going to win this game......now I want them blown the f*** out"!

Anyways, back to SEA/SF....I think the idea of division dominance in the 2000s is silly for anyone to talk about. Finally after 10 or so years since the realignment the West is a consensus pick for strongest division in the league, and the Seahawks needing 13 wins to clinch it says it all compared to 7 wins in 2010!

I think projecting forward the next 5 seasons, I can foresee the division being won by 2 or 3 teams. It will be as volatile as the NFC East has been.

ya but this rivalry starts at realignment, whether we were good or not then is irrelevant.
At realignment, only then can you talk apples to apples.

There are many different ways to frame the conversation, and I think the question is who is arguing what, and is it suspiciously a convenient metric for someone from that fanbase to argue from.

For instance, in order, 49ers fans would LOVE if the right way to do this were:

1A) Success of the franchise, as measured by Super Bowl wins, over time.
1B) Success of the team, as measured by division wins and playoff wins, since the two new regimes came into place two years ago.
1C) Success of the team, as measured by the records against each other in the regular season, since to the two new regimes came into place two years ago.

In turn, in order, Seahawks fans would LOVE if the right way to do this were:

2A) Success of the team, as measured by total point differential against each other in the regular season, since the the two new regimes came into place two years ago.
2B) Success of the team, as measured by division wins and playoff wins, since realignment when the Hawks have been in the NFCW.
2C) Success of the team, as measured by this current season so far.

NONE of these six things are OBJECTIVELY the correct metric to use. Instead, we see each fanbase opportunistically employ the metrics that are most convenient to arguing for their team's "obvious" superiority, and mostly in order too in order to make their case appear to be more airtight.

On 9ers boards it is "obvious" that 1A-1C matter and that Hawks fans are homer idiots who have deluded themselves into believing that 2A-2C matter. In turn, on Hawks boards (and for example, this thread) it is "obvious" that 2A-2C matter and that 9ers fans are homer idiots who have deluded themselves into believing that 1A-1C matter.

We can get in all the little scrapes about if "history" matters or not (for Hawks fans history doesn't matter if we're talking about 1A but does matter if we're talking about 2B and for 9ers fans history doesn't matter if we're talking about 2B but does when talking about 1A), but IMO it's basically just obscuring what's happening:

Yes, if we are assuming a world of logic and reason than privileging 1A over 2B or vice-versa while ignoring or minimizing the other is a clear contradiction of logic.

Instead, if we are assuming a world of opportunism and homerism than when talking about "history" privileging 1A over 2B or vice-versa while ignoring or minimizing the other is totally normal and to be expected.

Basically, if someone is trying to convince you that fandom exists in a world of logic and reason, they're trying to sell you something. We know this because really nobody's fandom origin story comes from a place of logic or reason: it's mostly born out of where you happened to grow up, and if not that stuff like having a relative who happened to be a fan of a team, or having a long-since retired favorite player be on a team when you were a kid, or that team being on TV a lot when you were a kid, or just randomly picking one when you started watching, or liking a uniform that has probably changed since then, etc. etc. Instead, fandom exists in an emotional world that's rife with opportunism and homerism, and according to that logic, this whole conondrum makes perfect sense.

Long story short, if someone immplies there's "truth" to their position beyond just opportunistic orientation and the homerism that comes with fandom, they're full of sh!t. It's not that people "don't get it", it's just that they choose different things to "get" based on what makes them feel good about their fandom and their team. It's why you NEVER see a 9ers fan giving any credibility to 2A-2C and NEVER see a Hawks fan giving any credibility to 1A-1C. It's all just a bunch of bullsh!tters opportunistically bullsh!ting.

I will say also that a somewhat natural extension of this is moving beyond the fandom of one's team to the disparagement of an opposing team, and then again beyond that into the disparagement of opposing fans as all inferior, immoral, stupid or what have you. That's a degree of tribalism that goes too far IMO. While it would be nice if fans didn't act like opportunistic homers in deciding what "counts" and "doesn't count", we'd be asking too much because doing so basically contradicts the logic of fandom. Instead, we should ask that the tribalsim not extend into petty attacks on other fans, which is just unnecessary, going too far, and frankly pretty pathetic IMO.*








*Spacing this from the rest of the post because it is an addendum (meaning, it shouldn't get in the way of the above which is think is "true" versus what follows which is an opinion) and I know it will be an unpopular one here: : As a 9er fan -- and I've said this here before -- personally this really only gets my goat when some Hawks fans talk about 9ers fans as being "thugs" and "criminals" and the stadium being not safe, etc. etc. (e.g. 9ers fans are criminals because someone in a rap video about the 9ers was wearing a bandana; the shock!!! the horror!!!). Even when not intentional or conscious (which I think is most of the time) I sadly know what these code words mean, and it annoys the ever loving hell out of me. That's the type of "too far" that I'm talking about.

It is a shame the name 49ers can not be mentioned without a flaming war breaking out.

Sedaisan":1xwizfnh said:

Interesting 49er Seahawks comparison I found...

Click to expand...

Never-the-less ..... thanks for posting the information. :th2thumbs: