What do you think about this trade?

Kirk Cousins for the Rams #1 pick!

I kid, but that would be funny to me.

Kirk is not that good.
He is worth a 4th imo. He had a average game against the falcons.

But yeah, kirk is gone when his contract is up

Axx":16sjqy83 said:

Kirk is not that good.
He is worth a 4th imo. He had a average game against the falcons.

But yeah, kirk is gone when his contract is up

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I doubt he'd go for a high 1st, but you're telling me he's not worth a better deal than Alex Smith? He's only in his 2nd season and still on a rookie deal and has showed some promise. In a limited sample size, he's completing 62% of his passes for 8.0+ YPA with 7/7 TD/INT. Not Russell Wilson numbers, but certainly not bad for a young QB who hasn't been in the league for very long.

The Skins should listen to offers this offseason, esp since Snyder is not gonna let RG3 go. It wouldn't be surprising to see a QB needy team throw a 2nd or 3rd at them for him and they should jump all over that if RG3 is their future.

I think at worst they get a 3rd rounder for him, maybe a 2nd.

EverydayImRusselin":23vxz4zg said:

I doubt he'd go for a high 1st, but you're telling me he's not worth a better deal than Alex Smith?

Not Russell Wilson numbers, but certainly not bad for a young QB who hasn't been in the league for very long.

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Is there anybody who doesn't think the Alex Smith trade was worth it for the Chiefs at this point?

FWIW, we'd be hard pressed to find a QB more statistically similar to Russell Wilson than Alex Smith this year. Smith has peaked and Wilson is a better player, but statistically, really shockingly similar:

Smith has 3544 yards passing/rushing, 25 TDs and 8 turnovers (ints and fumbles)
Wilson has 3585 yards passing/rushing, 26 TDs and 10 turnovers (ints and fumbles)

Obviously not saying that anyone in their right mind would prefer having Smith over Wilson, but the stats are basically the same. After the Matt Flynn implosion, the Cassell disaster and others, I think people are rightly a little suspicious of paying a lot for backups who have never been sustainted starters before.

As for Cousins, the Redskins spent a 4th on him and developed him for two years. I think they'd want at least a second, although the smart play IMO is definitely to keep him. With RGIII's injury and the way he gets banged around having a QB that won't cause your season to be over if your starter goes out is definitely worth more than a second round pick, IMO.

Popeyejones":3s3iy0qp said:

EverydayImRusselin":3s3iy0qp said:

I doubt he'd go for a high 1st, but you're telling me he's not worth a better deal than Alex Smith?

Not Russell Wilson numbers, but certainly not bad for a young QB who hasn't been in the league for very long.

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Is there anybody who doesn't think the Alex Smith trade was worth it for the Chiefs at this point?

FWIW, we'd be hard pressed to find a QB more statistically similar to Russell Wilson than Alex Smith this year. Smith has peaked and Wilson is a better player, but statistically, really shockingly similar:

Smith has 3544 yards passing/rushing, 25 TDs and 8 turnovers (ints and fumbles)
Wilson has 3585 yards passing/rushing, 26 TDs and 10 turnovers (ints and fumbles)

Obviously not saying that anyone in their right mind would prefer having Smith over Wilson, but the stats are basically the same. After the Matt Flynn implosion, the Cassell disaster and others, I think people are rightly a little suspicious of paying a lot for backups who have never been sustainted starters before.

As for Cousins, the Redskins spent a 4th on him and developed him for two years. I think they'd want at least a second, although the smart play IMO is definitely to keep him. With RGIII's injury and the way he gets banged around having a QB that won't cause your season to be over if your starter goes out is definitely worth more than a second round pick, IMO.

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I think the Smith trade has worked out wonderfully for KC. But at the time of the deal, it wasn't exactly a slam dunk. I still think someone will pay a lot for Cousins. There are still a few QB needy teams out there after all.

^^^ Yeah, agreed it definitely wasn't a slam dunk at the time. TBH, if Reid didn't have a long gestating hard on for Alex Smith, I think the 9ers gets SIGNIFICANTLY less value for him. Depending on what Cousins does these next two weeks I think he'll have some value, but it has been awhile since a backup went somewhere else and played well, which unfairly colors things a bit. Was the last one Matt Schaub? I'm assuming I'm forgetting someone (or more than one...)

Popeyejones":27ei586d said:

EverydayImRusselin":27ei586d said:

I doubt he'd go for a high 1st, but you're telling me he's not worth a better deal than Alex Smith?

Not Russell Wilson numbers, but certainly not bad for a young QB who hasn't been in the league for very long.

Click to expand...

Is there anybody who doesn't think the Alex Smith trade was worth it for the Chiefs at this point?

FWIW, we'd be hard pressed to find a QB more statistically similar to Russell Wilson than Alex Smith this year. Smith has peaked and Wilson is a better player, but statistically, really shockingly similar:

Smith has 3544 yards passing/rushing, 25 TDs and 8 turnovers (ints and fumbles)
Wilson has 3585 yards passing/rushing, 26 TDs and 10 turnovers (ints and fumbles)

Obviously not saying that anyone in their right mind would prefer having Smith over Wilson, but the stats are basically the same. After the Matt Flynn implosion, the Cassell disaster and others, I think people are rightly a little suspicious of paying a lot for backups who have never been sustainted starters before.

As for Cousins, the Redskins spent a 4th on him and developed him for two years. I think they'd want at least a second, although the smart play IMO is definitely to keep him. With RGIII's injury and the way he gets banged around having a QB that won't cause your season to be over if your starter goes out is definitely worth more than a second round pick, IMO.

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I disagree, we'd be hard pressed to find a QB more statistically similar to Colin Kaepernick than Alex Smith this year. Smith has peaked and Kaepernick isn't the better player, but statistically, really shockingly similar:

Smith has 3544 yards passing/rushing, 25 TDs and 8 turnovers (ints and fumbles) 60.8% PCT 6.58 YPC 11 WINS
Kaepernick has 3,136 yards passing/rushing, 21 TDs and 9 turnovers (ints and fumbles) 57.9% PCT 7.45 YPC 10 WINS



Russel separates himself because these are key stats you left out that really really matter.

Russel 8.6 YPC 64.7% PCT 12 WINS
Smith 6.58 YPC 60.8% PCT 11 WINS
Kaepernick 7.45 YPC 57.9% PCT 10 WINS

Russel flat out just does more with each opportunity then these two QBs.

You only get 100 throws what QB would you take?

Who would you take second?

The Browns have the Colts' first round pick this year, which will be a low one as Indy is already in the playoffs. Since they have two first rounders I could see them trading the Colts' pick to Washington if Cousins finishes strong.

They should keep cousins and trade RG Knee

Would you send T-Jack to Washington ... for Kirk Cousins?

joeseahawks":199uelq8 said:

Would you send T-Jack to Washington ... for Kirk Cousins?

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I'd keep TJack if it's a straight trade. More proven and consistent.

Brahn":161d0rzt said:

You only get 100 throws what QB would you take?

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?????

In the post you quote I already said twice that despite their statistical similarity Wilson is obviously a much better player than Smith. If you need it a third time: Wilson, obviously. :?

Popeyejones":13757api said:

Brahn":13757api said:

You only get 100 throws what QB would you take?

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?????

In the post you quote I already said twice that despite their statistical similarity Wilson is obviously a much better player than Smith. If you need it a third time: Wilson, obviously. :?

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And I disagreed with you. The statistical similarities in the key stats like Completion Percentage and Yards Per Completion make Wilson nowhere close to Smith statistically. Maybe we just consider different stats more important. You chose to focus on Passing Yards and TD/Turn Overs, and I choose to look at stats like Completion Percentage and Yards Per Completion ( A QB who is high in both stats makes the most of their opportunities). I then stated that Kaepernick would be closer to "Smith" than Wilson. And then asked between the THREE who would you chose first, and you responded only mentioning Smith and Wilson why not Kaep?

If you wanna address my post why not all of it and not just cherry pick?

joeseahawks":36397709 said:

Would you send T-Jack to Washington ... for Kirk Cousins?

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In a heartbeat, then turn around and trade Cousins for a 2nd or a 3rd.

Brahn":3pr608bj said:

Popeyejones":3pr608bj said:

Brahn":3pr608bj said:

You only get 100 throws what QB would you take?

Click to expand...

?????

In the post you quote I already said twice that despite their statistical similarity Wilson is obviously a much better player than Smith. If you need it a third time: Wilson, obviously. :?

Click to expand...

And I disagreed with you. The statistical similarities in the key stats like Completion Percentage and Yards Per Completion make Wilson nowhere close to Smith statistically. Maybe we just consider different stats more important. You chose to focus on Passing Yards and TD/Turn Overs, and I choose to look at stats like Completion Percentage and Yards Per Completion ( A QB who is high in both stats makes the most of their opportunities). I then stated that Kaepernick would be closer to "Smith" than Wilson. And then asked between the THREE who would you chose first, and you responded only mentioning Smith and Wilson why not Kaep?

If you wanna address my post why not all of it and not just cherry pick?

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1. I focused on both passing and rushing yards to Give Wilson the bump he deserves.

2A. I don't disagree about completion % or yards per completion. I mentioned total yards, TDs, and turnovers because those are the things people tend to talk about when they talk about statistical performance. Things like completion percentage, yards per attempt, and team wins matter for sure, but they are secondary types of stats that people tend to bring up when the stats most commonly used don't tell the story they want to hear. For instance:

For Kaep's starts last year 9ers fans loved to talk about his YPC (because it was very high) to counteract critiques about his lower (in rank) passing yards and completion % totals. It was their favorite homer stat. This was very different than the first first half when 9ers fans loved to talk about Smith's completion % and YPA to counteract people talking about his low passing yards, YPC, and TD totals. Smith's YPA (not YPC) was of course high because he completed a higher percentage of his passes than those he was being compared to, but like completion percentage, it was a homer stat. On the topic of YPC and YPA:

2B. You did not cite "yards per completion", you cited "yards per attempt", which obviously goes up by having a higher completion percentage. If you looked at YPC as you claimed, it would erase over 50% of the variation you're trying to cite between these three quarterbacks. In most cases much of saying someone has a high YPA is simply saying they have a high completion %, which is why people look to YPC. I'm assuming this was just a simple mistake, so no biggie.

3. You also introduce wins as a "more important" stat. Basically, if I'm talking about a quarterback's statistical performance and cite their yards, touchdowns, and turnovers and someone comes in and says the important way to judge them is that one of their teams has 12 wins, another has 11, and a third has 10, I am fairly certain that person is trying to sell me something.

I'm fine with us disagreeing. Truly. For how much better of a QB Wilson is than Smith (in my opinion) statistically they are surprising similar so far this year. We agree that is limited to the primary statistical categories that people tend to talk about when they talk about these things, and doesn't include completion percentage or team wins.

On the year, in total, Wilson has 41 more yards, 1 more touchdown, and 2 more turnovers than Smith, and he also completes 3.9% more of his passes and his team has one more win. That's absolutely true, we just interpret it differently. I think overall that's really similar. You don't.

This guy called in last week to one of the ESPN shows and said something that I hadn't heard anywhere.

It was discussed in lots of places that Shannahan fits perfectly within the Houton system

It was discussed in lots of places that Snyder wants to shed the $7million

BUT Houston needs a qb. Shannahan doesn't want to start with another young qb. So put in Cousins and establish a deal where he and Cousins go to Houston for a trade.....

Everyone knows Snyder wants a new coach so this would probably be real cheap by making it a combo deal

I loved the conspiracy theory and this one actually makes sense

^^^^^ LOL. I like that. Makes too much sense for it to ever happen, but I really like it.

Popeyejones":242sda4w said:

^^^^^ LOL. I like that. Makes too much sense for it to ever happen, but I really like it.

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I know right. It was on the Coleman show and you could tell that as the caller started talking Coleman (and me) was like hmmm yeah we heard this before. Then as soon as he mentioned the package deal as why Cousins was playing it was just like cha-ching. If just fits so perfectly