Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck

DavidSeven":1psbl7s6 said:

We get it, man. You hate Russell Wilson. You've seriously dogged him in basically every thread that's come up in the last two days. Hard to take you seriously.

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I don't hate him at all. I really like him as a person and think he has a ton of potential.

1. I am disapointed in his progress so far this year. I expected a lot more out of him. A lot of it is the Oline but to give them all the blame is foolish. He needs to get better. He needs to get better with his reads and downfield vision and his accuracy needs to improve. He also needs to work on stepping into the pocket against edge pressure instead of sliding out. Against inside pressure that's not really his fault and not much he can do. The good thing is that these are all rectifiable.

2. 32/32 GMs in the league would take Luck. That's just the honest truth.

NFSeahawks628":3f1ecdfz said:

Sgt. Largent":3f1ecdfz said:

KARAVARUS":3f1ecdfz said:

I still don't see why you think I am irrational if I don't want Luck over Wilson. Or am I misunderstanding? Literally, no part of me wants Luck over Wilson. None. Zero. Nada. Does that mean I think Wilson is better or that I hate Luck? I don't think so. I am happy with our QB, and it has to do with more than QB play on the field. I think Luck leaves Indy at some point in his career. Maybe Wilson leaves eventually too, but I think we have a better chance of having RW forever than Indy has of keeping Luck forever. I have no evidence to back that claim, mind you, none. I'm just happy with our guy. Call me crazy.

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You are crazy.

If you polled every GM and coach in the league (other than Seattle's), they'd take Luck over Wilson........and you would too if you removed your allegiance to the Hawks.

I love Russell, he's a top 10 QB in this league and a fantastic teammate, role model and community leader. But Luck is an every 25 year type of QB. IMO he's that special.

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How so? His stats to this point are less than what Wilson has done and youre talking about him like he's the next Joe Montana. Maybe he has the potential to do something like that but until he proves it and gets his first playoff win, all those accolades you and the rest of the media want to give him are fictitious.

I think Luck is great I just don't really think he's beyond Russell Wilson or even on another level yet, theres still lots to improve on in his game.

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IMO Wilson's stats were better last year because Wilson had more talent around him, and a much better offensive line. Now that Luck has some talent on offense you'll notice that their 2013 stats are very close.

No one can convince me that any GM/coach combo would choose Wilson over Luck. That right there should end this debate. Both are very good QB's, but IMO Luck is the TOTAL package. He has no deficiencies.

Wilson also has the ability to have a very good long career, and I'm glad we have him. But it'll be interesting to see how well he does when he starts approaching age 30 and his mobility slows down. Allusiveness is his biggest asset right now, what happens when that wanes? Hopefully we start building the hell out of our O-Line in the coming years so we don't have to find out.

Sgt. Largent":3392sgi0 said:

No one can convince me that any GM/coach combo would choose Wilson over Luck. That right there should end this debate.

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And no one can convince me that Carroll/Schneider or Bret Bielema would choose anyone other than Russell Wilson to be their franchise quarterback. That right there should end this debate.

Sgt. Largent":3392sgi0 said:

[But it'll be interesting to see how well he does when he starts approaching age 30 and his mobility slows down. Allusiveness is his biggest asset right now, what happens when that wanes? Hopefully we start building the hell out of our O-Line in the coming years so we don't have to find out.

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Tarkenton, Favre, and Young were mobile and productive well beyond 30. Russell isn't a running QB.

Luck does have deficiencies. Have you seen is turnover numbers so far? Most in the nfl to only Mark Sanchez. Seahawks had better talent overall but not so sure about his receiver corp. Hilton can fly and Wayne has been top 10 for a decade. Also I mentioned it earlier but Pro Football focus had Wilson's schedule as one of the toughest in the league last year and he has had a brutal schedule to start the year. Factor in we faced 3 top 5 front sevens with a decimated offensive line as well. What happened when he did have time to throw against Jax? He had an incredible day. GM's would take Luck because of his size....he's just safer. Doesn't mean he will be or is better.

And do you know who GM's would take at #2? Russell Wilson. Not RG3, Kap, Newton etc....but Mr. Wilson.

Also what do you think Lucks stats would be if we had him as our starter these first 5 games against the front 7's we faced? I would argue they would be worse. There are only a couple of guys in the league who can avoid contact and scramble like Wilson can and that has been his saving grace this year.

coltsfan1405":3mm1dpbg said:

lol im sorry but Wilson is not on lucks level VERY close but just not yet I hope we see you guys in the superbowl cause it will be a very good game and on neutral grounds in NY

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You are correct Wilson is clearly a level above...

Sarlacc83":3q44nc9a said:

Bartmuley":3q44nc9a said:

Last year for most of the year Wilson was a game manager, nothing wrong with that but the Seahawks D and running game (and replacement refs) were what won the Seahawks games last year.

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Hahahaha, you don't know anything. Go watch the Bears game. Or the Atlanta game. Or the December 49ers game.

Game manager. Brilliant.

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You obviously missed the "most of the year" part of my post. It's OK, i know some people have trouble reading. Just go reread my post, I'm sure you'll see it tis time.

Bartmuley":qx4sc2xc said:

Sarlacc83":qx4sc2xc said:

Bartmuley":qx4sc2xc said:

Last year for most of the year Wilson was a game manager, nothing wrong with that but the Seahawks D and running game (and replacement refs) were what won the Seahawks games last year.

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Hahahaha, you don't know anything. Go watch the Bears game. Or the Atlanta game. Or the December 49ers game.

Game manager. Brilliant.

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You obviously missed the "most of the year" part of my post. It's OK, i know some people have trouble reading. Just go reread my post, I'm sure you'll see it tis time.

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Nope; I just know that you don't know anything.

DavidSeven":1fa03c20 said:

Sgt. Largent":1fa03c20 said:

Tarkenton, Favre, and Young were mobile and productive well beyond 30. Russell isn't a running QB.

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Russell isn't a running QB in the same vein as guys like Vick or Cunningham, but he does depend heavily on his legs to allude pressure and buy time and/or run when the pocket breaks down.

I'm just worried that his effectiveness might wane when he can no longer do this as efficiently as he does now. But that's a good problem to have considering every single one of our previous QB's going back to Zorn didn't have 1/10th of Wilson's skill set.

Sgt. Largent":kcdzcgpa said:

NFSeahawks628":kcdzcgpa said:

Sgt. Largent":kcdzcgpa said:

KARAVARUS":kcdzcgpa said:

I still don't see why you think I am irrational if I don't want Luck over Wilson. Or am I misunderstanding? Literally, no part of me wants Luck over Wilson. None. Zero. Nada. Does that mean I think Wilson is better or that I hate Luck? I don't think so. I am happy with our QB, and it has to do with more than QB play on the field. I think Luck leaves Indy at some point in his career. Maybe Wilson leaves eventually too, but I think we have a better chance of having RW forever than Indy has of keeping Luck forever. I have no evidence to back that claim, mind you, none. I'm just happy with our guy. Call me crazy.

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You are crazy.

If you polled every GM and coach in the league (other than Seattle's), they'd take Luck over Wilson........and you would too if you removed your allegiance to the Hawks.

I love Russell, he's a top 10 QB in this league and a fantastic teammate, role model and community leader. But Luck is an every 25 year type of QB. IMO he's that special.

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How so? His stats to this point are less than what Wilson has done and youre talking about him like he's the next Joe Montana. Maybe he has the potential to do something like that but until he proves it and gets his first playoff win, all those accolades you and the rest of the media want to give him are fictitious.

I think Luck is great I just don't really think he's beyond Russell Wilson or even on another level yet, theres still lots to improve on in his game.

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IMO Wilson's stats were better last year because Wilson had more talent around him, and a much better offensive line. Now that Luck has some talent on offense you'll notice that their 2013 stats are very close.

No one can convince me that any GM/coach combo would choose Wilson over Luck. That right there should end this debate. Both are very good QB's, but IMO Luck is the TOTAL package. He has no deficiencies.

Wilson also has the ability to have a very good long career, and I'm glad we have him. But it'll be interesting to see how well he does when he starts approaching age 30 and his mobility slows down. Allusiveness is his biggest asset right now, what happens when that wanes? Hopefully we start building the hell out of our O-Line in the coming years so we don't have to find out.

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Anyone who is directly comparing Luck's stats to Wilson's from last year doesn't know about football. Luck ran a totally different, far more aggressive offense than Wilson and he did it without anywhere near the defense or running game the Seahawks had last year.

Indy last year was running a new offense, with a rookie QB, with two rookie TEs, a rookie RB, a rookie WR, Avery who caught 3 passes the year before, and of course Wayne. And the Colts won 11 games...largely because oF Luck.

No disrespect to Wilson but he came to loaded team and for much of last year he was just a game manager. He had nowhere near the attempts Luck had or passing yards.

Wilson's running ability saves him a lot but sooner or later it will cost him. Ask RG3. Personally I don't want my QB running except as a last resort or if he's not going to get hit, QBs are too important.

Speaking as a fan (i.e. one who is prone to emotional swings) I think both are very promising QBs and deserve their accolades, but they make plays in different ways. That said, if the question is which is going to have the better career, at this point I'd say Luck will. He seems to be the more accurate passer and better at hitting a receiver in stride. I'm also beginning to think he sees the field better. Russell tends to overthrow open receivers, and this is something we've been seeing since he's been our QB, and it seems he's just not seeing some wide open receivers of late. Perhaps all QBs are guilty of that, but it just seems that this part of his game, his vision, hasn't been great this season. He makes up for this by being terrific with his legs, having great poise, and dedicating himself to being a great leader, but the dude has to figure out his accuracy issues because at some point, legs aren't enough for a QB.

I don't know if this is all because our OL has more or less failed to rise to the occasion in Pass Pro (seem to be doing a little better in run game of late), but Russell just seems "off" a wee bit. Not a ton, mind you, but I don't mind telling you I'm a little...concerned.

TJH":3n7csmp6 said:

DavidSeven":3n7csmp6 said:

We get it, man. You hate Russell Wilson. You've seriously dogged him in basically every thread that's come up in the last two days. Hard to take you seriously.

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I don't hate him at all. I really like him as a person and think he has a ton of potential.

1. I am disapointed in his progress so far this year. I expected a lot more out of him. A lot of it is the Oline but to give them all the blame is foolish. He needs to get better. He needs to get better with his reads and downfield vision and his accuracy needs to improve. He also needs to work on stepping into the pocket against edge pressure instead of sliding out. Against inside pressure that's not really his fault and not much he can do. The good thing is that these are all rectifiable.

2. 32/32 GMs in the league would take Luck. That's just the honest truth.

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Unless you talked to 32 GM's, there's no sort of truth to that.

-The Glove-":35t4hqyd said:

TJH":35t4hqyd said:

DavidSeven":35t4hqyd said:

We get it, man. You hate Russell Wilson. You've seriously dogged him in basically every thread that's come up in the last two days. Hard to take you seriously.

Click to expand...

I don't hate him at all. I really like him as a person and think he has a ton of potential.

1. I am disapointed in his progress so far this year. I expected a lot more out of him. A lot of it is the Oline but to give them all the blame is foolish. He needs to get better. He needs to get better with his reads and downfield vision and his accuracy needs to improve. He also needs to work on stepping into the pocket against edge pressure instead of sliding out. Against inside pressure that's not really his fault and not much he can do. The good thing is that these are all rectifiable.

2. 32/32 GMs in the league would take Luck. That's just the honest truth.

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Unless you talked to 32 GM's, there's no sort of truth to that.

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Luck was universally acclaimed as the best prospect in 20 years since Elway and has done nothing to dispell that. This isn' really even questionable.

MysterMatt":5nc9ylf5 said:

I don't know if this is all because our OL has more or less failed to rise to the occasion in Pass Pro (seem to be doing a little better in run game of late), but Russell just seems "off" a wee bit. Not a ton, mind you, but I don't mind telling you I'm a little...concerned.

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I'm not concerned about Wilson. Right now he's trying to operate behind a horrific offensive line. Seriously, our O-line was under performing BEFORE all the injuries, and now they're just flat out getting beat on a regular basis......especially pass blocking.

No QB, even Manning and Brees could operate efficiently behind this line. Add in the fact that guys like Miller and Rice aren't playing up to their potential (or in Miller's case aren't playing at all), and it spells disaster for Russell.

The good news is Harvin is coming back, and hopefully Unger and Breno get back to full health. Then Okung in November and we should be good to go for the stretch run.

Sarlacc83":29klw16t said:

Bartmuley":29klw16t said:

Sarlacc83":29klw16t said:

Bartmuley":29klw16t said:

Last year for most of the year Wilson was a game manager, nothing wrong with that but the Seahawks D and running game (and replacement refs) were what won the Seahawks games last year.

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Hahahaha, you don't know anything. Go watch the Bears game. Or the Atlanta game. Or the December 49ers game.

Game manager. Brilliant.

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You obviously missed the "most of the year" part of my post. It's OK, i know some people have trouble reading. Just go reread my post, I'm sure you'll see it tis time.

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Nope; I just know that you don't know anything.

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I know Russel passed for less than 200 yards 9 times last season, averaged only around 24 attempts per game, and only passed for 300 yards once, in a loss in the playoffs.

Hell the guy passed for less than 175 yards 9 times.

Like I said, most of the year he was a game manager. He was a rookie on a team with a great running game and defense, he did what was asked of him, but the fact is what he did and what Luck did last year as far as roles go, are totally different.

TJH":1tu4dl23 said:

-The Glove-":1tu4dl23 said:

TJH":1tu4dl23 said:

DavidSeven":1tu4dl23 said:

We get it, man. You hate Russell Wilson. You've seriously dogged him in basically every thread that's come up in the last two days. Hard to take you seriously.

Click to expand...

I don't hate him at all. I really like him as a person and think he has a ton of potential.

1. I am disapointed in his progress so far this year. I expected a lot more out of him. A lot of it is the Oline but to give them all the blame is foolish. He needs to get better. He needs to get better with his reads and downfield vision and his accuracy needs to improve. He also needs to work on stepping into the pocket against edge pressure instead of sliding out. Against inside pressure that's not really his fault and not much he can do. The good thing is that these are all rectifiable.

2. 32/32 GMs in the league would take Luck. That's just the honest truth.

Click to expand...

Unless you talked to 32 GM's, there's no sort of truth to that.

Click to expand...

Luck was universally acclaimed as the best prospect in 20 years since Elway and has done nothing to dispell that. This isn' really even questionable.

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Sure. That was entering the league. Back then, no doubt. Now that we know what we have in Wilson, I highly doubt PC and JS would part with him for anybody.

Sgt. Largent":2f9rvbz6 said:

MysterMatt":2f9rvbz6 said:

I don't know if this is all because our OL has more or less failed to rise to the occasion in Pass Pro (seem to be doing a little better in run game of late), but Russell just seems "off" a wee bit. Not a ton, mind you, but I don't mind telling you I'm a little...concerned.

Click to expand...

I'm not concerned about Wilson. Right now he's trying to operate behind a horrific offensive line. Seriously, our O-line was under performing BEFORE all the injuries, and now they're just flat out getting beat on a regular basis......especially pass blocking.

No QB, even Manning and Brees could operate efficiently behind this line. Add in the fact that guys like Miller and Rice aren't playing up to their potential (or in Miller's case aren't playing at all), and it spells disaster for Russell.

The good news is Harvin is coming back, and hopefully Unger and Breno get back to full health. Then Okung in November and we should be good to go for the stretch run.

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I approve of your attitude.

Bartmuley":1208kw9o said:

I know Russel passed for less than 200 yards 9 times last season, averaged only around 24 attempts per game, and only passed for 300 yards once, in a loss in the playoffs.

Hell the guy passed for less than 175 yards 9 times.

Like I said, most of the year he was a game manager. He was a rookie on a team with a great running game and defense, he did what was asked of him, but the fact is what he did and what Luck did last year as far as roles go, are totally different.

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You can keep repeating that talking point, but since you didn't watch the games, you don't know. Wilson threw less because the identity of the team is to run the ball, not because Wilson had any limitations (except the artificial limitation for the first five games). You're looking at the stats without context. Like, for instance, the fact that Wilson threw for sub 200 yards at the end of the season games because the team, as a total, kicked so much ass he was out of 2 of those games by the third quarter.

Furthermore, game managers DON'T tie the record for rookie TD throws. Nor do their numbers go drastically up when the team needs it. (See: Bears, Patriots). Once again: You don't know anything.

Sarlacc83":hwj01nar said:

Bartmuley":hwj01nar said:

I know Russel passed for less than 200 yards 9 times last season, averaged only around 24 attempts per game, and only passed for 300 yards once, in a loss in the playoffs.

Hell the guy passed for less than 175 yards 9 times.

Like I said, most of the year he was a game manager. He was a rookie on a team with a great running game and defense, he did what was asked of him, but the fact is what he did and what Luck did last year as far as roles go, are totally different.

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You can keep repeating that talking point, but since you didn't watch the games, you don't know. Wilson threw less because the identity of the team is to run the ball, not because Wilson had any limitations (except the artificial limitation for the first five games). You're looking at the stats without context. Like, for instance, the fact that Wilson threw for sub 200 yards at the end of the season games because the team, as a total, kicked so much ass he was out of 2 of those games by the third quarter.

Furthermore, game managers DON'T tie the record for rookie TD throws. Nor do their numbers go drastically up when the team needs it. (See: Bears, Patriots). Once again: You don't know anything.

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Yeah, Sarlacc nailed it, if you look at his stats without any context you'd get that impression but consider how many games Wilson had won by the second quarter his numbers could of been way higher if stats were his goal. All you really need to know is what happened in the Atlanta game in the second half. Wilson was unstoppable in that game, without Tony Gonzales the Seahawks would of been in the NFC championship.

As a Seahawks fan I love Russell Wilson as much as the next, but there is definitely some homerism on these boards regarding RW3... Why do people get butt hurt on these boards if someone thinks Luck is better than Wilson? I will say that watching the Seahawks Colts game, Luck was much more effective stepping up into the pocket when the line collapsed, still looking down field the entire time. A problem with Wilson is that when the line collapses, he NEVER steps up into the pocket, it seems that he immediately resorts to his legs and runs outside, cutting his vision by half. I'm happy we have RW3, but placing the entire blame on the line is ridiculous. He has deficiencies and some are concerned on the lack of progression regarding said deficiencies.

Sarlacc83":20txcpbv said:

Bartmuley":20txcpbv said:

I know Russel passed for less than 200 yards 9 times last season, averaged only around 24 attempts per game, and only passed for 300 yards once, in a loss in the playoffs.

Hell the guy passed for less than 175 yards 9 times.

Like I said, most of the year he was a game manager. He was a rookie on a team with a great running game and defense, he did what was asked of him, but the fact is what he did and what Luck did last year as far as roles go, are totally different.

Click to expand...

You can keep repeating that talking point, but since you didn't watch the games, you don't know. Wilson threw less because the identity of the team is to run the ball, not because Wilson had any limitations (except the artificial limitation for the first five games). You're looking at the stats without context. Like, for instance, the fact that Wilson threw for sub 200 yards at the end of the season games because the team, as a total, kicked so much ass he was out of 2 of those games by the third quarter.

Furthermore, game managers DON'T tie the record for rookie TD throws. Nor do their numbers go drastically up when the team needs it. (See: Bears, Patriots). Once again: You don't know anything.

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Uh huh. I know Wilson was a game manager who averaged less than 200 yards a game passing. I know he had a great D and running game so he wasnt asked to do as much as most QBs.

Seriously I have no idea why you're getting so upset. Tom Brayd was a game manager his first year as a starter. Wilson lucked out in going to a very good team that needed a QB.

He's a good QB, but he runs too much and comparing his rookie season to Luck's stat-wise is silly. He was a game manager, Luck was the whole show in Indy last year. Luck couldn't count on his D or run game to win games for the Colts.