Story: http://www.king5.com/sports/mariners/Wedge-tells-Mariners-he-will-not-return-in-2014-225583712.html

Well Z is returning Wedge isn't next up based on history is a series of tread worn or new kids on the block and we go thru 4 or 5 years of falling further back of the pack, Z will be gone in two years due to bad performance and the cycle continues.

Now if they could find a hitting coach that could actually improve the teams hitting it would save a lot of Managerial turnover.

Until Lincoln and Armstrong are gone expect the same crap results. The GM and
Manager are non-factors with the two assclowns above those 2 positions.

I wish to Mariners wouldn't return to Seattle next year.

Maybe it was a huge coincidence, but the team played pretty darned well when Robbie Thompson was managing during the period Wedge was out for his heart issue.

Wouldn't mind if they gave him the keys next year to see what he can do.

Don Wakamatsu had a decent year with the Mariners in 2009, why not give him one more try?

Just saw that the GM said Wedge was fine until he opened his yap. Why is it that the GM that has hired back to back horrible managers is still employed?

The second manager to say No Mas. The problem is upper mgmt... I am unimpressed with the GM as well. A manager ? Robby Thompson. He was a hard nose ball player and seemed to do well. The less transition for the team the better.

Eric Wedge just fired the Mariners.

You can't let jack hire yet again another manager. Jack needs to go too.

I don't even care. With Howard Dinkon and Chuck Cuntstrong at the helm, nothing matters. This team should just die. I will pay no attention next year, I will buy no tickets. I really hope this team gets contracted. I'm over it.

I'm happy to see Wedge gone, but like others have said, it's not enough.

They need to hire someone who can develop young talent better.

What I don't get is how the Dodgers had ownership removed for the best interest of baseball. Yet, the Mariners and Marlins are able to run in total dysfuntion because they are in small markets.

Is it true that Wedge air'd out the clowns running that side show?

I don't believe Seattle is a small market team. It was not all that long ago we led the league in attendance. This is inconsistent with being a small-market team. We act like a small market team. Both Shannon Drayer and Stone for the Seattle Times have written pieces with quotes from Wedge.

My take on it was he disagreed with some of the decisions that were made. He was not happy with the future direction what that is I have no idea. This team in my opinion is in full meltdown mode. What it needs is a strong owner to step forward. Right now they don't have anyone and it is a rudderless ship

Sounds like Big Lou coming out against the upper Management before he went South.

Throwdown wrote:Is it true that Wedge air'd out the clowns running that side show?

Pretty much, in a round about way. The M's have had 3 managers quit on them in the past 10 years (Lou, Grover, and Wedge), all because of Lincoln/Armstrong. Hmmm.... wonder where the problem is?

Sports Hernia wrote:

Throwdown wrote:Is it true that Wedge air'd out the clowns running that side show?

Pretty much, in a round about way. The M's have had 3 managers quit on them in the past 10 years (Lou, Grover, and Wedge), all because of Lincoln/Armstrong. Hmmm.... wonder where the problem is?

The problem is obvious, its the traffic in SoDo after the new arena is built

so you all want the team gone.....so this is good news yes?

m0ng0 wrote:so you all want the team gone.....so this is good news yes?

I wouldn't say we want the team gone, but I refuse to attend or watch a game as long as the current FO guys are still in a position of power.

Throwdown wrote:

m0ng0 wrote:so you all want the team gone.....so this is good news yes?

I wouldn't say we want the team gone, but I refuse to attend or watch a game as long as the current FO guys are still in a position of power.

THIS. I love baseball, and Safeco is a great stadium, watched probably 100's games there over the years. Haven't paid for a game in over 5 years, and only went to a couple in the 3 years ago because I got real good seats for free, been to zero games the last 2 seasons, and wont go until Lincoln and Armstrong are gone.

The Mariners have a tough time finding their wallet for top tier talent, and I have a tough time finding my wallet to watch their current crap product.

Should they have traded the prospects away for Justin Upton or Josh Hamilton or a 280lb 1st baseman who hit 25 homers?


*edit*

I looked a little deeper and compared the 3 above with Ibanez, Morales and Seager

Fielder/Upton/Hamilton .264 avg, .341 obp, 73 hr, 255 rbi, 50 million
Ibanez/Seager/Morales .261 abg .327 obp 74 hr, 214 rbi 8.5 million

Its not about player personnel for me, I don't know about anyone else. I don't care if you lose, just be a loveable loser, there's nothing Chuck & Howard have done to give themselves pity, instead gave a middle finger to a large portion of the fan base by going against Chris Hansen. Yes, my beef with team is strictly all about their arena opposition and their funding for anti-arena propaganda, it makes them look petty for being so active against it even after their "concerns" were proven false. We all know the real reason why, and then to find out they helped Clay Bennett out when he was here? The two at the top could catch a Muhammed Ali upper cut each!

I hate this team. I hate that I'll be pouring over the minor moves they'll make in the offseason, I hate that I'll have any kind of hope for the team next year, I hate that next April I'll be sitting front row for opening day. I hate that when I go to games I find myself spending more time in the beer garden, I hate that my favorite sport is represented by this team.

I hope they make major moves and spend a lot of money. Let's pay for offense and hope these young pitchers turn out.

I feel ya Sonic!

I suspect they will open their wallets a bit more next year, smart moves by the gm are whats needed now, is jack Z that guy?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian ... h-directv/

The problem is the ownership group. Remember, the majority of the team is owned by the Nintendo Corporation, not an individual. They aren't interested in fielding a winning team on the field. All they care about is if the team is run in a way that shows a consistent profit margin. The Seattle fans' only hope is that the new TV contract makes it financially attractive to the Nintendo board to sell the team for a huge sum.

m0ng0 wrote:Should they have traded the prospects away for Justin Upton or Josh Hamilton or a 280lb 1st baseman who hit 25 homers?


*edit*

I looked a little deeper and compared the 3 above with Ibanez, Morales and Seager

Fielder/Upton/Hamilton .264 avg, .341 obp, 73 hr, 255 rbi, 50 million
Ibanez/Seager/Morales .261 abg .327 obp 74 hr, 214 rbi 8.5 million

Sigh..... Another Lincoln/Armstrong apologist.......
Never said they should have traded for Upton. A 280 LB first baseman that hits 25 homeruns would look good in this lineup and make the rest of the lineup better, is it the total answer no, but No pitchers fear Smoak, sorry!

The upper FO is risk adverse when it comes to paying for top tier talent. Other teams seem to make it work, but all these 2 clowns do is fail. Keep on being "patient", Chuck and Howard are counting on fans like you!

Do I need to bring up the stats of this teams W/L record under the reign of Chuck Armstrong, and Howard Lincoln????????????????? Face it, these 2 clowns are clueless and have no idea how to run a successful baseball team. To them they are selling a dog and pony show, and apparently you are buying it.

The problem I have seen as a trend with Armstrong and Lincoln is they don't let the GM do his job nor the Manager, every thing has to be approved by them or go through them. Why Gillick and Pinella left and some others.

chris98251 wrote:The problem I have seen as a trend with Armstrong and Lincoln is they don't let the GM do his job nor the Manager, every thing has to be approved by them or go through them. Why Gillick and Pinella left and some others.

That's a big the part of the problem, you want hear that from the Howard and Chuck fanclub though!
To them the reason the Mariners have been door mats over the last decade is just plain dumb luck!
They are like Cowboys fans saying their GM Jerry Jones isn't the problem when everyone outside of a few know he is.

Well we stopped winning when the GM stopped looking at young talent on other teams, situations like bringing in a guy like Randy Johnson who had control problems, trading a known ageing power bat Ke Phelps if i remember correctly for Jay Buhner, those kinds of moves that move older players or costly one such as Langston was at the time for a stable of young talent ready to pop. That and add a good farm system like those days with Griffey and Arod. Thats what has been lacking. It's talent evaluation that hits more then misses and doing it for players ready to pop not that have and are on the decline.

Sports Hernia wrote:

m0ng0 wrote:Should they have traded the prospects away for Justin Upton or Josh Hamilton or a 280lb 1st baseman who hit 25 homers?


*edit*

I looked a little deeper and compared the 3 above with Ibanez, Morales and Seager

Fielder/Upton/Hamilton .264 avg, .341 obp, 73 hr, 255 rbi, 50 million
Ibanez/Seager/Morales .261 abg .327 obp 74 hr, 214 rbi 8.5 million

Sigh..... Another Lincoln/Armstrong apologist.......
Never said they should have traded for Upton. A 280 LB first baseman that hits 25 homeruns would look good in this lineup and make the rest of the lineup better, is it the total answer no, but No pitchers fear Smoak, sorry!

The upper FO is risk adverse when it comes to paying for top tier talent. Other teams seem to make it work, but all these 2 clowns do is fail. Keep on being "patient", Chuck and Howard are counting on fans like you!

Do I need to bring up the stats of this teams W/L record under the reign of Chuck Armstrong, and Howard Lincoln????????????????? Face it, these 2 clowns are clueless and have no idea how to run a successful baseball team. To them they are selling a dog and pony show, and apparently you are buying it.

Excuse me? I could give a damn who chuck or howard are, I pointed out 3 free agents that the league was all hot and bothered about that for one reason or another we did not sign, and none of them appear to be smart moves considering their salary or as you say it top tier talent, the angels built a fantasy team that was damn near as dreadful as Seattle, you hate the mariners I get that, you choose not to support them I get that, you offer no solutions just constant bitching bout chuck and howard, blah blah blah we have already heard all of this before......

chris98251 wrote:Well we stopped winning when the GM stopped looking at young talent on other teams, situations like bringing in a guy like Randy Johnson who had control problems, trading a known ageing power bat Ke Phelps if i remember correctly for Jay Buhner, those kinds of moves that move older players or costly one such as Langston was at the time for a stable of young talent ready to pop. That and add a good farm system like those days with Griffey and Arod. Thats what has been lacking. It's talent evaluation that hits more then misses and doing it for players ready to pop not that have and are on the decline.

I do understand what you are saying however we don't have the chips to play this game, we have nothing worth much at the moment, Langston was a stud when we traded him. I agree talent evaluation is the key along with development of said talent. They have a nice young core that hopefully they continue to build around, I must say I am happy with walker and paxton, miller, zunino, franklin and even seagar and smoak showed something late this year.

m0ng0 wrote:

chris98251 wrote:Well we stopped winning when the GM stopped looking at young talent on other teams, situations like bringing in a guy like Randy Johnson who had control problems, trading a known ageing power bat Ke Phelps if i remember correctly for Jay Buhner, those kinds of moves that move older players or costly one such as Langston was at the time for a stable of young talent ready to pop. That and add a good farm system like those days with Griffey and Arod. Thats what has been lacking. It's talent evaluation that hits more then misses and doing it for players ready to pop not that have and are on the decline.

I do understand what you are saying however we don't have the chips to play this game, we have nothing worth much at the moment, Langston was a stud when we traded him. I agree talent evaluation is the key along with development of said talent. They have a nice young core that hopefully they continue to build around, I must say I am happy with walker and paxton, miller, zunino, franklin and even seagar and smoak showed something late this year.

Your looking at just this year, I'm talking about the last ten years, we have had players that had value we let walk for nothing or traded for peanuts. From Bavasi to Z the GM has been held in check by the Armstrong Lincoln regime, and the Managers. Z has built a good farm and it may take a few years for the young players to solidify as Major League guys, but as soon as they have a contract come up or a year where they play lights out we deal them. Been how we operate.

Exception was Ichiro who we kept one contract to long and of course Felix who I'm not sure keeping was a great baseball move as much as a revenue and name move to bring fans here on the days he pitches.

m0ng0 wrote:

Sports Hernia wrote:

m0ng0 wrote:Should they have traded the prospects away for Justin Upton or Josh Hamilton or a 280lb 1st baseman who hit 25 homers?


*edit*

I looked a little deeper and compared the 3 above with Ibanez, Morales and Seager

Fielder/Upton/Hamilton .264 avg, .341 obp, 73 hr, 255 rbi, 50 million
Ibanez/Seager/Morales .261 abg .327 obp 74 hr, 214 rbi 8.5 million

Sigh..... Another Lincoln/Armstrong apologist.......
Never said they should have traded for Upton. A 280 LB first baseman that hits 25 homeruns would look good in this lineup and make the rest of the lineup better, is it the total answer no, but No pitchers fear Smoak, sorry!

The upper FO is risk adverse when it comes to paying for top tier talent. Other teams seem to make it work, but all these 2 clowns do is fail. Keep on being "patient", Chuck and Howard are counting on fans like you!

Do I need to bring up the stats of this teams W/L record under the reign of Chuck Armstrong, and Howard Lincoln????????????????? Face it, these 2 clowns are clueless and have no idea how to run a successful baseball team. To them they are selling a dog and pony show, and apparently you are buying it.

Excuse me? I could give a damn who chuck or howard are, I pointed out 3 free agents that the league was all hot and bothered about that for one reason or another we did not sign, and none of them appear to be smart moves considering their salary or as you say it top tier talent, the angels built a fantasy team that was damn near as dreadful as Seattle, you hate the mariners I get that, you choose not to support them I get that, you offer no solutions just constant bitching bout chuck and howard, blah blah blah we have already heard all of this before......

Yep, you got me here..... I hate the M's so much, I've only been a fan since their inception in 1977! Way to play the "superfan" card there Skippy! Epic Fail YOU!

OK wiseguy since YOU claim to have all of the answers and you are so butthurt that someone is critical of your heros (chuck and howard) what is your suggestion????? And being patient, and waiting for the rest of the division to suck, ain't a plan!
This should be good!

butthurt, skippy, epic fail, wiseguy and of course

chuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howard.

have a nice day sweetie pie

I'm not much of a fan of the Ms and I pity you guys who are but at what point does the "good farm system" thing get challenged? At least in terms of young hitters, doesn't one of the young guys have to come up and have consistent success to validate that?

Every year seems like 1 or 2 youngsters will have a decent stretch, and those are held up as reasons to be patient, then next year they suck, and a couple other young guys will do okay for a little and be the new hope.

I immediately feel bad for the next man up. The Mariners had better open up the wallet and by a LOT and sign a couple free agents in their prime. A couple of our young guys showed promise at the end of the year. But we have a ways to go before we'd ever compete with the Rangers.

I wasn't a big fan of Wedge's track record when he came here but then again, he had a pretty inferior group of players to manage in Cleveland and Baltimore prior to the scrubs he acquired here in Seattle. IMHO the manager who comes in (or gets promoted from within) should be the third-highest paid on the club (to Kuma & Felix) for all that he will have to do to get this club back to relevance/mediocrity/non-suckage/consistency.

m0ng0 wrote:butthurt, skippy, epic fail, wiseguy and of course

chuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howardchuck and howard.

have a nice day sweetie pie

So you have no plan and the status quo of suck is just fine with you, Nice. Enjoy the hat trick, video hydroplane races, dancing groundskeepers, and empty stadium! Your 2 heros thank you for being a rube, congrats on that Junior!

hawk45 wrote:I'm not much of a fan of the Ms and I pity you guys who are but at what point does the "good farm system" thing get challenged? At least in terms of young hitters, doesn't one of the young guys have to come up and have consistent success to validate that?

Every year seems like 1 or 2 youngsters will have a decent stretch, and those are held up as reasons to be patient, then next year they suck, and a couple other young guys will do okay for a little and be the new hope.

Kyle Seager is the only young bat that shown any consistency. The M's have some good young arms, at the MLB level or close to it. They may have to trade one or two to get a true middle of the order bat if they can find a taker. I have zero faith they will sign any big names via FA as they have no interest in outbidding the big boys.

they can't sign top tier talent without massively overpaying, they can possibly get guys like Jacoby Ellsbury or Tim Lincecum because they have ties to the area but even that is a stretch. Do we outbid the yankees for maybe 330 mill for Robinson Cano? Do we overpay to keep Kendry Morales? What do we do with Montero?

The FA market in 2014 is full of guys we already have except ours are younger and on much cheaper contracts, until the team starts winning consistently we will not be a major player in the FA market. Zunino and Franklin are 23? Miller and Almonte are 24. Seager is established enough I suppose. Pull the plug on Smoak and Saunders yeah probably. Walker and Paxton look like they may pan out, They have to draft better and develop talent and not let it go. Thats kinda what Seattle is doing but it takes time.

Are there players in Japan or in the Caribbean leagues we could take a flyer on? Its a risk but its not a 300 million dollar risk

Spending money just because we can is not always the best idea. Look at Texas, Angels, Blue Jays, Phillies and Yankees they threw lots of money at players and they are all sitting at home now also.

m0ng0 wrote:they can't sign top tier talent without massively overpaying, they can possibly get guys like Jacoby Ellsbury or Tim Lincecum because they have ties to the area but even that is a stretch. Do we outbid the yankees for maybe 330 mill for Robinson Cano? Do we overpay to keep Kendry Morales? What do we do with Montero?



Spending money just because we can is not always the best idea. Look at Texas, Angels, Blue Jays, Phillies and Yankees they threw lots of money at players and they are all sitting at home now also.

This point is lost on most Mariners fans because they have been let down so many times in the past..

"IF we just pulled the trick on this one player..."

Last year it was Josh Hamilton at 18million.... which would have hamstrung this organization even moreso than its apathetic ownership already do. But to many fans they just want to see SOMETHING that signals intent.

Thats the issue... its the lack of trust. We can look at sound financial decisions (although we were ready to dump a ton on Hamilton) play out and relate that Morse and 8 was no different than Hamilton at 18...(outside the injury, they were close in terms of numbers) the issue though is that the two closet onwers running the organization are seen as not pulling the strings instead of deftly playing the market.

Thus it is to be a Mariners fan... you obviously have a handful that are screaming "spend" just to show belief, to take a chance, etc... (to the point where someone on this board accused anyone defending not spending big on players as being the lead members of the Armstrong/Lincoln fan club)

But that only works for a handful of teams in the current MLB environment. I'd rather try and be the Pirates and A's and Rays than the Angels, Rangers and Red Sox.

The pitching staff on this club is a very, very good one... much like the A's and Pirates and Rays. the young players have not all worked out (Smoak did finish with 20 HRs and a respectable .250 batting average).

So now the management has a true conundrum (or a chance to show it truly cares about this club and its fanbase)... make the right moves in the Winter and this team instantly becomes a very good team just based on its rotation and bullpen.

Will they do it? and what are those moves? its an interesting winter, and as Mongo pointed out the free agent class isnt exactly brimming with top end talent.

.250 is not a respectable average for a firsdt baseman that is suppose to be a full time starter, that is what you expect from a guy that historically has been a SS or your weakest hitter, respectable .275 to .290 for a power guy. I guess when you are screaming for decency your expectations of average dwindle.

chris98251 wrote:.250 is not a respectable average for a firsdt baseman that is suppose to be a full time starter, that is what you expect from a guy that historically has been a SS or your weakest hitter, respectable .275 to .290 for a power guy. I guess when you are screaming for decency your expectations of average dwindle.

sorry, he bat .237. its respectable for Justin Smoak was the point... but yeah, josh hamiltons 21 HRs and .250 average at 18 million (without the obligatory Smoak time in the minors) was the right move... and we all know who screamed for that.

No really good FA will consider the Ms given the situation. It is not a hitters park and that is what we need. Aaron was right when he said after the park opened balls just die. No manager a clueless front office what a mess. I would do:

Trade 2 or more of the the better prospects and position players for players under contract. No one is untouchable. No one is that good except for our 1-2 pitchers. I would even listen if it was a knock you over offer.

It's the only way I can see this happening. I don't trust Z both the players he wanted, Upton and Hamilton did nothing. His trades moved good players for squat. Frankly I would let him go too. I don't like his plan. Whatever formula is uses to evaluate players is not working. How has he earned even one more year ? This team is worse not better.

Try to poach a good GM. Give Robby Thompson a shot at manager. Better to throw crazy money at a GM that knows what he is doing then a player. Z was a good scout, that's it. No track record as GM just as an assistant in Milwaukee . Why did we thing he would be able to do it ? He has failed. Next man up works in baseball too IMO.

Honest question for Uncle Si: Why does the fanbase not trust Lincoln and Armstrong from your POV???

And how do those 2 guys regain the trust of a jilted fanbase besides the obvious answer which is to win more?

Happypuppy wrote:No really good FA will consider the Ms given the situation. It is not a hitters park and that is what we need. Aaron was right when he said after the park opened balls just die. No manager a clueless front office what a mess. I would do:

Trade 2 or more of the the better prospects and position players for players under contract. No one is untouchable. No one is that good except for our 1-2 pitchers. I would even listen if it was a knock you over offer.

It's the only way I can see this happening. I don't trust Z both the players he wanted, Upton and Hamilton did nothing. His trades moved good players for squat. Frankly I would let him go too. I don't like his plan. Whatever formula is uses to evaluate players is not working. How has he earned even one more year ? This team is worse not better.

Try to poach a good GM. Give Robby Thompson a shot at manager. Better to throw crazy money at a GM that knows what he is doing then a player. Z was a good scout, that's it. No track record as GM just as an assistant in Milwaukee . Why did we thing he would be able to do it ? He has failed. Next man up works in baseball too IMO.

Unless you can get Billy Beane from Oakland it doesn't really matter IMHO whom your GM and manager are when under restraints of the upper FO.

Sports Hernia wrote:Unless you can get Billy Beane from Oakland I doesn't really matter IMHO whom your GM and manager are when under restraints of the upper FO.

I agree, but it's not just the front office the owners are the ones with the $$. According the ex Times beat writer for the Ms Geoff Baker today on KJR paraphrased said the ownership has increased the valuation of the team to a billion. One of he ways is no long term contracts. Payroll has decreased every year since 2008 when the other teams in our division have been increasing.
http://blogs.seattletimes.com/mariners/ ... osing-big/

I am really tired of it. They know they guaranteed X when the play in other cities based on the MLB contracts. They have to just sell the fans a pretty picture of " these kids will be great " and trot out a minor league level team and a certain number of fans by in. It's works too... The team with the lowest payroll ( Houston) also had the largest profits this year.

We the residents and the fans built them the park. They owe us a competitive team. If they won't , sell it.

I won't listen anymore to there hope and a dream propaganda, instead I will only look at what is the result not what is said. Right now as an organization my grade for them is a solid F

Wedge was a small problem.


Z was the main problem.

I used to attend about 10 games a year... Since 2010 I've only gone to opening day due to it being a yearly tradition for us. Other than that, they get none of my money. I also used to buy a new cap every year, but haven't done that either!

m0ng0 wrote:Should they have traded the prospects away for Justin Upton or Josh Hamilton or a 280lb 1st baseman who hit 25 homers?


*edit*

I looked a little deeper and compared the 3 above with Ibanez, Morales and Seager

Fielder/Upton/Hamilton .264 avg, .341 obp, 73 hr, 255 rbi, 50 million
Ibanez/Seager/Morales .261 abg .327 obp 74 hr, 214 rbi 8.5 million

Who said trade away top prospects for Hitters?

What Z didn't do importantly this season was trade away Raul Ibanez. Ibanez hit 24 homers and 56 RBIs in 277 at-bats with a .267 average before All Star Break.

Kendrys Morales also should had been traded, Switch Hitter that can play 1b, and his stats are not that bad.
280 with 14 homers and 54 RBIs and guess what, he's a free agent, and we could had got something out of him, but nope.