Browns shopping Josh Gordon

Largent80":1zgswrwg said:

Really?....So you think we are ok on the O-Line?

And that we need a receiver more than a good tackle?

Breno is hurt and Okung is out. We have rookie backups.

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Was hoping to see a Roland response.

In lieu of that, I would just like to ask the usual... What sweet OL are available? Not that I know anything about them, other than their apparent rarity.

I would love the idea of having Gordon, he's big, fast and all the other explatives that you all have mentioned, but as much as I love the idea, I don't think it would work.

We have bigger issues at hand, OL to be specific, and adding another WR, to the corp I'm afraid would send a wrong message to our existing receivers, mainly that they're not good enough. Yeah I believe he would step up our receivers but at the same time it's a backhanded way to say that we need help here, when again, we really need help there. In the back of my mind, I would be afraid that the team concept, will be lost to the "me" mentality, since PC obviously doesn't think our receivers can do the job.


I maybe wrong, but just throwing another angle out

DavidSeven":1n5t6rnr said:

themunn":1n5t6rnr said:

And yet we traded our first round pick for a WR when we had Tate, Rice and Baldwin and spent our second on a running back when we have Lynch and Turbin.


2 of our starting O-Linemen were picked up midseason off waivers, another was an undrafted free agent.

Gordon had more yards last season than any Seattle WR has had in the last 4 years - as a rookie playing for the Browns.

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Again, he got twice as many targets as Rice and barely surpassed him in overall yards. Gordon's catch rate according to Football Outsiders last year was 53%. Rice's was 62%; Tate was at 69%. We traded a #1 for Harvin because he's a dynamic and unique player in this league. He has value as a receiver, runner and returner. I think Gordon is a good player, but he's not a unique one.

2012 FO Adjusted WR rankings: Rice #14, Tate #19, Gordon #51.

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I like what you are trying to do here, but you are overlooking something of critical importance. Context. Rookie WRs, even ones who turn out to be very good, usually suck as rookies. Gordon put up some of the best rookie numbers from a WR we've seen in the last few years, while catching passes in one of the NFL's worst offenses, whereas Tate and Rice are polished veterans catching passes from the NFL's 4th ranked QB in passer rating.

I watched Gordon in college and I knew back then that he had #1 WR talent. When Cleveland paid a high 2nd rounder to get him in the suppletmental draft, a lot of people bashed them for it. Not me. Personally, I think they are completely nuts to trade a talent like Gordon for anything less than a 1st. If they'd part with him for a 3rd rounder, on that contract, ANY team should want to be on the buying side of that deal.

Also, as much as I'd love to be wrong, I think one or both of Rice and Tate could be gone next offseason. It's very possible we might end up investing a high pick on a WR next year anyway, and if that's the case, I'd much rather roll with Gordon than potentially than an unproven rookie who probably wouldn't contribute for a couple years. WRs are one of the highest bust-rate positions in the game too, so if you can get a good one from outside the draft, you should always go that route first, which is why PC/JS have been so aggressive pursuing WRs from other teams.

Go look up Megatron's rookie numbers. They are pretty low.

Josh Gordon is exactly what Pete tried to get with Jackson and Marshall, though their respective clubs ended up wanting too much. Yes he is one strike from suspension. It is a factor, and would dramatically affect compensation, and any contract he signs would have clauses.

Whether anyone likes him or not, he is the player prototype Pete is looking for, and has been looking for.

Scottemojo":20tlahtt said:

Go look up Megatron's rookie numbers. They are pretty low.

Josh Gordon is exactly what Pete tried to get with Jackson and Marshall, though their respective clubs ended up wanting too much. Yes he is one strike from suspension. It is a factor, and would dramatically affect compensation, and any contract he signs would have clauses.

Whether anyone likes him or not, he is the player prototype Pete is looking for, and has been looking for.

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Not that I disagree with you, but if this is the case, why didn't the Seahawks put a claim on him in the supp. draft? Yes, he went for a high 2nd, but I don't believe anyone else put a claim in on him.

Dtowers":ac53xte6 said:

Scottemojo":ac53xte6 said:

Go look up Megatron's rookie numbers. They are pretty low.

Josh Gordon is exactly what Pete tried to get with Jackson and Marshall, though their respective clubs ended up wanting too much. Yes he is one strike from suspension. It is a factor, and would dramatically affect compensation, and any contract he signs would have clauses.

Whether anyone likes him or not, he is the player prototype Pete is looking for, and has been looking for.

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Not that I disagree with you, but if this is the case, why didn't the Seahawks put a claim on him in the supp. draft? Yes, he went for a high 2nd, but I don't believe anyone else put a claim in on him.

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No one else put in a first round claim on him, but the Browns had the second pick of the second round, and used it on Gordon. Considering his issues, nobody spending a first on him was valid. Only one team passed on him in the second, the Bills. It works more like waiver claims anyway, but I don't know if there is a way to tell what others were willing to spend.

I watched the last Cleveland game, the man is a beast. Think Brandon Marshall/TO. I honestly do not know enough about what got him suspended, but a complete aversion to risk is not a hallmark of this group in Seattle now. How many of Seattle's fans were on board with Marshawn Lynch at first? He had plenty of baggage, that worked out well.

I'd be on board if a 4th next draft and a 5th the year after with conditions that void the 5th if Gordon gets suspended for a year for a second violation could get it done. Seattle is a team that could weather a year suspension if that happened, the upside is he doesn't get suspended and produces at a pro-bowl level. Pretty risky but hey, maybe paring him with this locker room can keep him in line. Of course with Browner and Irvin recently having trouble I could see us avoiding this situation.

I just can't help thinking about Gordon, Tate, Harvin, Rice, and Baldwin when we go 5 wide. Crap that sounds sick.

Question I must be in a hole but i admit I do not know much about Gordon. IF and big IF how would he fit in my Niners system. We a desperate for a #1 WR can he be that if he grows up???

Sound quality sucks, but great highlights
[youtube]M0V3M6yM3_w[/youtube]

Dtowers":2ni58ir8 said:

Scottemojo":2ni58ir8 said:

Go look up Megatron's rookie numbers. They are pretty low.

Josh Gordon is exactly what Pete tried to get with Jackson and Marshall, though their respective clubs ended up wanting too much. Yes he is one strike from suspension. It is a factor, and would dramatically affect compensation, and any contract he signs would have clauses.

Whether anyone likes him or not, he is the player prototype Pete is looking for, and has been looking for.

Click to expand...

Not that I disagree with you, but if this is the case, why didn't the Seahawks put a claim on him in the supp. draft? Yes, he went for a high 2nd, but I don't believe anyone else put a claim in on him.

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There was talk at the time that Seattle might put a 2nd or 3rd round claim on him. It didn't matter once the Browns put in their 2nd round claim. It doesn't mean no other teams put claims on him, the Browns just had the highest claim.

Scottemojo":3b36yval said:

Sound quality sucks, but great highlights
[youtube]M0V3M6yM3_w[/youtube]

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Thanks Scott. wow the dudes a game changer for sure

I know. Any Niner fan should be begging Baalke to do this, it isn't like the Niners need the picks next year.

Man it would help for sure. We dont have crap now. Boldin No #1 vernon not enough. Mario #3 at best when healthy and Crabtree who know how he will come back.

rlkats":1wm0hvrc said:

Man it would help for sure. We dont have crap now. Boldin No #1 vernon not enough. Mario #3 at best when healthy and Crabtree who know how he will come back.

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Don't get me wrong, I don't want that to happen...I like the Niners just the way they are

Scottemojo":19if4iv8 said:

rlkats":19if4iv8 said:

Man it would help for sure. We dont have crap now. Boldin No #1 vernon not enough. Mario #3 at best when healthy and Crabtree who know how he will come back.

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Don't get me wrong, I don't want that to happen...I like the Niners just the way they are

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LOL im sure you do. We have to at least make it interesting HAHA. God would be nice

What I like about him: big target, unafraid of the middle of the field, above-average YAC ability, hard to tackle.

What I'm "meh" on: all the catches on his reel are pretty pedestrian (everything he caught was thrown near his body, no high pointing, no leaping grabs, no toe-tapping, etc.) There isn't a single catch on his tape where he actually made a play on the ball. This probably accounts for his low catch-rate / yards per target ratio. Compare this to catches that even guys like Kearse/Williams were making in the pre-season.

I do agree that he's a talent and that he fits the Mike Williams mold that Pete's always been after. My main point is that I question how much our offense will utilize him given i's offensive identity and Russell's reluctance to toss it around. Bevell had very little use for Mike Williams in his play-action/deep pass offense. I don't think we get as much value out of the player as other teams would.

I don't think the Browns are in a real hurry, they will with out doubt build up the desperation of teams like the Pats and Niners, where they are almost forced to make a deal.

Browns want draft choices and plenty of them me thinks.

Maybe we can lend them JS for some drafting tips as a trade concession.

oh, and I'd rather not see him on the 49ers, like someone said, like the 9ers the way they are and will like them even better at 1-4

rlkats":29oerfwt said:

Question I must be in a hole but i admit I do not know much about Gordon. IF and big IF how would he fit in my Niners system. We a desperate for a #1 WR can he be that if he grows up???

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That's my question also. It isn't like Harvin won't be back between 3-7 weeks and him alone will transform the offense given the players around him and more importantly, the quarterback at the controls going forward for years forward? A quarterback rating of 109ish while basically sucking half the time? Really? Seriously?

The NFL isn't MLB there's a real salary cap and harsh roster limitations, we can't have every good player similar to elite baseball teams. At some point the 49ers will have the opportunity to get that good WR if they're willing to pay the seller's price.

Coug_Hawk08":2tfyd13e said:

Why are we always worried about niners picking up our scraps? Our 5th guy is their first or second best option?

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Williams is a 27 year old UFA who is coming off of a concussion and hasn't caught a regular season pass three seasons seasons. All fans of course over-value the folks at the bottom of their bench who looked good against players who aren't playing in the NFL in the pre-season, but Williams makes Jon Baldwin, Kyle Williams, Quinton Patton and even Marlon Moore look like studs in comparison.

Don't think anyone needs to worry about cutting the guy.

Scottemojo":23kojvnm said:

Go look up Megatron's rookie numbers. They are pretty low.

Josh Gordon is exactly what Pete tried to get with Jackson and Marshall, though their respective clubs ended up wanting too much. Yes he is one strike from suspension. It is a factor, and would dramatically affect compensation, and any contract he signs would have clauses.

Whether anyone likes him or not, he is the player prototype Pete is looking for, and has been looking for.

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Good comps. AJ Green is the guy he reminds me of. Very similar body type, hands, strength/toughness, and knack for earning targets. Like Green, his game seems "bland" to the untrained eye, but you watch him closely and you see that play after play after play he's proving to be too much to handle for defensive backs.

The only reason Lombardi is shopping this guy is because he will do whatever it takes to get Johnny Football. 1 strike or no, there is no sane reason to trade a talent like Gordon (unless there is something scary they know that we don't).

It makes me incredibly nervous knowing that Gordon is out there for the taking. I don't think much of Baalke, but he would have to be a complete idiot not to roll the dice on Gordon.