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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:08 am 
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Mark Legree and EJ Wilson know this team shows no loyalty to draft picks.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:13 am 
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Even with a good showing tonight, Harper's best case scenario is practice squad.

That's my guess, practice squad. For no other reason than he has potential and Pete and John don't want to take the 300k signing bonus hit for cutting him.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:22 am 
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TCS wrote:
I agree with Bob. They have to force feed Harper to see what he's "got", but even then it's just pre season. I wonder if JS has "buyer's remorse" when it comes to the Harper pick? I for one didn't think Kearse would take the strides he's taken from last year to now, and Williams has been outstanding stretching the field. There is such a small sample size with Harper that he simply might fall by the wayside because of the log jam at receiver. Good problem to have I guess...

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I don't think Carrol/Schneider thought Kearse would make the strides he has. Hence the Harper pick.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:48 am 
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Throw 10 lbs on him, convert him to Joker a la Delanie Walker.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:11 pm 
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Well the dilemma is over....Harper dropped too many passes tonight. Ones that were right in his hands.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:32 pm 
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hawkfan68 wrote:
Well the dilemma is over....Harper dropped too many passes tonight. Ones that were right in his hands.


That about sums it up.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:17 pm 
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fridayfrenzy wrote:
How does the new CBA make it easier to bail on a 4th rounder?

http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Name= ... m=Seahawks

The second column there (pro-rated bonus) is the guaranteed money that he will receive - $412k. Not bad at all for a 23 year old guy, but a small percentage of his contract and not a figure that would affect our decision on whether we makes the 53 man roster.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:41 pm 
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he needs to go to the practice squad

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:47 pm 
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Those two big drops were painful. He hasn't shown enough.
It's important (but hard sometimes) not to fall in love with "the idea" of what Harper "could be", and to see what he "is", which is an underskilled receiver who drops key passes at the worst possible moment.
A lot of us (me included) were in "like" (it wasn't quite love) last year with Kris Durham, and the idea of what he "could be".
After seeing Durham play for the Lions, failing to make plays on balls targeted to him, I was SO glad we let him walk. The receivers we kept were so much better.
Stephan Williams > Durham. Williams IS what we wished Durham could someday become.
Kearse already IS much of what we hope Harper *could* become. I'd feel confident seeing Kearse out on the field as a starter if one of our current starters were unable to go. (I'm still a little hesitant on how Williams' game will translate when the games start counting)

Release Harper, and put him on PS if he clears waivers. End of story. Now we'll see what Pete and John do.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:59 pm 
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When a 4th round player drops a pass in the NFL that I am 98.7% certain I will catch...

Yeah. Time to cut him. Or at least practice squad his ass if you think it is just a case of being the worst time to have an off day.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:16 am 
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It was sad watching my 'Adopt A Rookie' do his best TO imitation dropping sure TDs. YAY!
And holding my tongue while easy 1st downs go bouncing off his "known for his sure hands in college"! HooRAYY!!

Geez louise. At this point I honestly don't see him making the Seahawks 53.

As is, all I have left is Luke Willson, but at least he looks to be "gettin' it", whereas Harper looked like a deer in the headlights, with a one-way ticket on a slow plane to Jacksonville...


ps I know I know. I'm sorry, but as of this moment I no longer consider him a Hawk(I'd be astonished if he plays another down for us...), and I can't root for the Jags either. bbye H-aar-per. :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:22 am 
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Just my opinion -- Harper makes the 53 and is gameday inactive most of the year. He clearly has talent and a unique body size. I just see a guy who needs a year to develop. We talk all the time about how John/Pete will dump a player even if he's a high draft pick, but they also kept Jaye Howard around last year to sit and watch. You can afford to do that with maybe 1 guy a year.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:35 am 
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Hawkstorian wrote:
Just my opinion -- Harper makes the 53 and is gameday inactive most of the year. He clearly has talent and a unique body size. I just see a guy who needs a year to develop. We talk all the time about how John/Pete will dump a player even if he's a high draft pick, but they also kept Jaye Howard around last year to sit and watch. You can afford to do that with maybe 1 guy a year.


They could have afforded to stash him if we had the same WR group as last year, but with Williams and eventually Harvin added to the mix, I just don't see the space. We also didn't have a ton of depth at DL last year, so it made it pretty easy to stash Howard away. There are also far better candidates for the one "stash and develop" spot on the team (Mayowa, Lotulelei, Coleman, Ware, etc.).


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:22 am 
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Well for what it's worth, I have 4 out of 5 of those guys on your list as making the 53. I'm taking Ware ahead of Coleman but it could go either way. I still believe draft picks get an edge but I'm old and stubborn so that may be a part of it.

Also -- rookie WRs just suck usually anyway. Nothing to be done about it. Golden Tate didn't do much as a rookie and now he's a starter. Jermaine Kearse looks like he's made huge strides year 1 to 2. Harper looks to me like he needs the number of Kearse's ophthalmologist.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:25 am 
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Every time I read Hawkstorians signature I ask myself "but when will the entertainment come, John?".

Agree all the way around, BTW, 'Storian. I think Ware has a tad more versatility than Coleman. They did line him up wide last night, and IMO, he can do that occasionally. He kind of reminds me of a more compact Lamar Smith (hopefully there's not Michael Friars).


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:26 am 
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olyfan63 wrote:
Kearse already IS much of what we hope Harper *could* become. I'd feel confident seeing Kearse out on the field as a starter if one of our current starters were unable to go.


To be fair, Kearse wasn't what we hoped Harper could become his first year either. Now I understand the circumstances are different -- as Kearse's rookie year coincided with a lack of WR depth. Allowing him the opportunity to stick around and develop. Harper faces a much more crowded and accomplished receiving corps competition wise. There may not be the same ability to afford development time for Harper that benefitted Kearse.

Harper does appear to have a considerable road to hoe in order to be competitive with this group.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:54 am 
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Coleman > Ware >> Harper

I think Coleman gets the roster spot on offense, and MRob doesn't go anywhere.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:08 am 
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Attyla the Hawk wrote:
olyfan63 wrote:
Kearse already IS much of what we hope Harper *could* become. I'd feel confident seeing Kearse out on the field as a starter if one of our current starters were unable to go.


To be fair, Kearse wasn't what we hoped Harper could become his first year either. Now I understand the circumstances are different -- as Kearse's rookie year coincided with a lack of WR depth. Allowing him the opportunity to stick around and develop. Harper faces a much more crowded and accomplished receiving corps competition wise. There may not be the same ability to afford development time for Harper that benefitted Kearse.

Harper does appear to have a considerable road to hoe in order to be competitive with this group.


Pretty much this was bound to happen regardless. Eventually, if your developmental WR's do workout like you hoped, your going to have to use them, or what is the point. WR's have a longer shelf life then RB's. Your going to top out eventually. Harper just came in at the wrong time and dropped the ball (pun intended) at the chances he got. No room to take a chance on him.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:12 am 
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Any fan, of any NFL team, will explain to why their "#5 and #6" WR's are the BOMB and best in the league. It's scientific law of NFL fanaticism, you always see SO much potential in your lower tier receivers (my Rosebud was Jordan Kent). But, with this version of the Seahawks, its actually true!

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:13 am 
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The dilemma is over. You don't drop catches in the end zone. Especially when your future depends on it. Too bad for him, but I want to win the SB and not have to worry about a fringe player to make a play.

There will be more draft picks next year. Time to move on.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:16 am 
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I wouldn't take Harper over Lotu, Brooks, or Mayowa, all those guys were not draft picks but showed me more this preseason. Harper might make himself a spot though, he has obvious talent and size. The one catch he made was a catch a lot of WR won't hold onto. In Seattle though, he would have to show more unfortunately, I think he could stick in Jacksonville or Oakland.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:40 am 
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Harper will make it to the practice squad. The limited film on him doesn't really stand out. I doubt he gets claimed if exposed.

He did collect one ball while taking a good shot. Didn't follow it up though.

I could part ways with him.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:20 pm 
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Mick063 wrote:
Harper will make it to the practice squad. The limited film on him doesn't really stand out. I doubt he gets claimed if exposed.

He did collect one ball while taking a good shot. Didn't follow it up though.

I could part ways with him.


Dude, theres no such thing as limited film on any player in todays technological world. And with how deep the Hawks are all around, every team is paying notice to this roster. Furthermore, when it comes to recently drafted players, most of the league just scouted the guys months ago. They're more than familiar.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:26 pm 
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SeaTown81 wrote:
Mick063 wrote:
Harper will make it to the practice squad. The limited film on him doesn't really stand out. I doubt he gets claimed if exposed.

He did collect one ball while taking a good shot. Didn't follow it up though.

I could part ways with him.


Dude, theres no such thing as limited film on any player in todays technological world. And with how deep the Hawks are all around, every team is paying notice to this roster. Furthermore, when it comes to recently drafted players, most of the league just scouted the guys months ago. They're more than familiar.



You are right.

Pre Season is obsolete.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:53 pm 
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I think he will probably be safe on the practice squad, and if not, oh well... I think he has dropped more passes than he has caught in the pre-season.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:03 pm 
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Wasn't impressed at all with him, even when doing research after the draft he never really made his mark.

There are 5 solid players in Rice, Tate, Baldwin, Kearse, and Williams.

Phil Bates has shown more up to this point, but Harper is just as much a project as neither will see very much playing time at all. It's apples and oranges at this point, depends on what kind of player Coach wants and who he feels can contribute in more areas other than being a Sixth WR.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:04 pm 
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I'm high on him, but no denying he had a bad game. Coaches are going to evaluate him for his body of work, not just a couple of drops, but with Williams and especially Kearse the WR depth is better than it has been in ages. I'm still not sure he makes it to the practice squad if that's the route the team decides to go. We've seen players like Maurice Mann *blast from past* get claimed. I'm hoping he sticks around.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:01 pm 
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I don't see us carrying 6 receivers this year (unless/until Harvin) anyway, and I don't feel picking Harper was a bad or dumb move. He had a reputation of being a good blocker and that might have been enough to carry / groom him if Harvin was active (and Williams and the new Chop Chop hadn't come along).

Harper screwed everybody, himself included, with that dropped TD last night. He catches it..or even extends the drive without his other drop, and we might be looking at a late rd pick for him in trade. Now?

I doubt he clears. Pete and JS have too good of a reputation for evaluating talent. We gave a 4th for him, someone will pick him up based on that fact alone. IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:05 pm 
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With Williams having the concussion that would give us only 4 healthy receivers if you want to include Rice as being healthy. I think he makes the team but isn't activated for most of the season.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:37 pm 
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olyfan63 wrote:
Kearse already IS much of what we hope Harper *could* become. I'd feel confident seeing Kearse out on the field as a starter if one of our current starters were unable to go.


Yup....like 6 regular season receptions and he is there.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:37 pm 
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I think Williams just got a bit rattled. If he were seriously concussed, I doubt they would have had him standing on the sideline for the remainder of the game. In any event, he's got more than a week to clear any cobwebs.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:43 pm 
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Here is what I think. We are keeping him because we all know that Tate is gonna have a big year with us this season. And there is no way we can retain him next season. Harper will come through. Just like Tate did.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:54 pm 
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Sandpoint Hawk wrote:
Here is what I think. We are keeping him because we all know that Tate is gonna have a big year with us this season. And there is no way we can retain him next season. Harper will come through. Just like Tate did.


We will pay Tate and cut Rice.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:57 pm 
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Sandpoint Hawk wrote:
Here is what I think. We are keeping him because we all know that Tate is gonna have a big year with us this season. And there is no way we can retain him next season. Harper will come through. Just like Tate did.



They obviously saw something in Harper (4th?!) and Tate is definitely going to have a banner year. IF we win the SB, I hope we re-sign Tate, move Harvin.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:59 pm 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
Sandpoint Hawk wrote:
Here is what I think. We are keeping him because we all know that Tate is gonna have a big year with us this season. And there is no way we can retain him next season. Harper will come through. Just like Tate did.


We will pay Tate and cut Rice.

Agreed.

I like Rice, I really do, I just don't like the salary that we have to pay him. Would love if he would take a pay cut but who knows.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:01 pm 
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HawkWow wrote:
Sandpoint Hawk wrote:
Here is what I think. We are keeping him because we all know that Tate is gonna have a big year with us this season. And there is no way we can retain him next season. Harper will come through. Just like Tate did.



They obviously saw something in Harper (4th?!) and Tate is definitely going to have a banner year. IF we win the SB, I hope we re-sign Tate, move Harvin.


Sad. Thank god you don't run the front office. Housh and Big-Mike would probably be running deep posts w/ Hass throwing it up.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:47 pm 
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I hope we keep Harper and I have been a big fan of his since about around the middle of last season and I would hate to cut him and watch him become a solid player for another team. He had a couple of unfortunate drops, but the numbers game at WR probably put a lot of pressure on him when he finally got a significant amount of reps in the last pre-season game. Don't give up on him as a player, there was a guy you may have heard of that was a former 1st round pick who struggled his rookie year with dropped passes...his name is Jerry Rice. Jerry Rice's rookie year he dropped quite a few passes and at one point during a game he broke down crying because of his struggles on the field. Now, no I'm not saying Harper is the next Jerry Rice, but he can still be the tough, physical, great hands WR that our coaching staff envisioned him to be.

Here is an article on Jerry Rice's struggle with drops his rookie year.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/walkthrough/2006/too-deep-zone-jerry-rice-rookie-bust


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:37 pm 
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OMG! It appears that today we cut MikeRob instead of this guy?!?

All I can say is he better be payin' off bigtime in the longrun...

before I embarrass myself further; I'll shut up.
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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:47 pm 
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Decimation wrote:
T-Sizzle wrote:
Sandpoint Hawk wrote:
Here is what I think. We are keeping him because we all know that Tate is gonna have a big year with us this season. And there is no way we can retain him next season. Harper will come through. Just like Tate did.


We will pay Tate and cut Rice.

Agreed.

I like Rice, I really do, I just don't like the salary that we have to pay him. Would love if he would take a pay cut but who knows.


Soon, unless I am seeing this wrong, all the high dollar non-QBs / CBs will be taking pay cuts.
Rice was money last year but his track record...not so much. I value him, but he's making about twice as much as he's worth to this team (IMO). I don't see him reducing his asking price by that much so...he'll be toast.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:50 pm 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
olyfan63 wrote:
Kearse already IS much of what we hope Harper *could* become. I'd feel confident seeing Kearse out on the field as a starter if one of our current starters were unable to go.


Yup....like 6 regular season receptions and he is there.


I'm sticking with Kearse on this one. He gets it this year. He is a playmaker. 6 regular season receptions and all. I say Kearse is on the field enough to catch 20+ passes this year, (more if Rice/Tate other WR's miss games) and makes some key plays during the season to keep the W's rolling. Kearse now IS a legit NFL receiver. I see it came off like I was drawing a parallel between Kearse's skill set and Harper's skill set. To clarify, the skill set parallels are Kearse has that we hope for from Harper, is that Kearse is now a legit NFL receiver, Kearse gets open, Kearse *makes plays* on balls thrown to him in traffic. And, this year (so far, knock on wood...) Kearse CATCHES the ball. Obviously Harper is a bigger body and has some other unique advantages.

In truth, I hope we find a way to keep Harper. I say the dropsies are uncharacteristic and will go away. Part of me wonders if Pete told him to intentionally drop a couple EZ balls to help other teams pass on him. Seriously, for a moment. But then I dismissed that thought because that would simply be counter to the whole Pete Carroll program.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:57 pm 
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With MRob gone, I'm feeling like Harper gets kept on the 53.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:12 am 
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Unless this kid has been lights out on special teams or at least shown potential for it I am not too worried about where he ends up.With the talent this team has I dont think players have the luxury of spending 3 years learning the route tree.Cutting a 4th round pick isnt that big of a deal,in the long run most dont make it


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:17 am 
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cover-2 wrote:
I hope we keep Harper and I have been a big fan of his since about around the middle of last season and I would hate to cut him and watch him become a solid player for another team. He had a couple of unfortunate drops, but the numbers game at WR probably put a lot of pressure on him when he finally got a significant amount of reps in the last pre-season game. Don't give up on him as a player, there was a guy you may have heard of that was a former 1st round pick who struggled his rookie year with dropped passes...his name is Jerry Rice. Jerry Rice's rookie year he dropped quite a few passes and at one point during a game he broke down crying because of his struggles on the field. Now, no I'm not saying Harper is the next Jerry Rice, but he can still be the tough, physical, great hands WR that our coaching staff envisioned him to be.

Here is an article on Jerry Rice's struggle with drops his rookie year.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/walkthrough/2006/too-deep-zone-jerry-rice-rookie-bust


did you just compare Chris Harper to Jerry Rice


I think you did


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 Post subject: Re: The Chris Harper dilemma
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:42 am 
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If I'm stuck with him... FINE!
Catch the ball fool!


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