A series on a religious document is just that: a documentary on a religious text. I've seen the same treatment on Greek mythology, narrated from a "factual" point of view. No big deal. "Real" doesn't have anything to do with it.

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God is on a slow death march to being completely obsolete. Unless actual, documented proof is found, agnostic/atheism is the fastest growing "belief system" or whatever you want to call it in the USA. More people are turning to science than god for answers every day, so it is only a matter of time before humans are enlightened and shed away the shackles of mythological ignorance.

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Flavor, really? Where? Even the guy who wrote the establishment clause said point blank religion and government work in greater purity if they remain separate. Is that where we want to take the argument, about somebody's feeling? That since some people feel there is a flavor of religion in the Constitution, despite never mentioning God or Religion out side of the government not getting involved with it, then that means Christians have every right to force their religion into government?



You do know the Declaration of Independence, while being an important document, has no standing in our formation of a government.

I will take up your challenge. Thomas Jefferson who famously wrote the line you quoted. Try reading the Jefferson bible, it is amazing what Jesus becomes when he is stripped of all his miracles.

agreed, i use to pray for things that i wanted in life that were out of my control. Non-selfish and non-conceited things. In fact its probably the only thing in my life that i prayed for. but as time went on and realized that this will never work i began turning over to science. With the help of science I have gotten my "prayer" then questioned the existence of a "god". After some research on evolution, abiogenesis, and myths in the bible I have come to the conclusion that God is not needed for the existence of man kind. Surely having 66 authors and only like 2-3 actually know jesus has to raise some eye brows. Also dont even get me started on the similarities between Jesus and Horus. The similarities are to similar to just blow away.
Many people have gone through a similar path as I did.

Also i want to say though is that all Christians are hypocrites. They want to see the sick go with out help (Republican Christ Party)

"The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"

-George Washington

Christian's are hypocrites on this subject, like mikehawks said, they believe freedom of religion is different than freedom from religion. With that distinction in hand they try to force prayer into schools, faith into science class, religious monuments on government property, and then cry about separation of church and state when a school has an optional Yoga class because there is some connection between Yoga and religion. They howl when it is Islam and they make up shit to say the Muslims are trying to introduce Sharia law to America. Also God forbid if a non-Christian, especially an Atheist, ever runs for office. Most Christians aren't for the Freedom of Religion, they just want freedom for their religion to do whatever the hell they want.

George Washington didnt say that, thats how the Treaty of Tripoli reads....

Relgion -- "rabid" (as my hate mail says) atheist. I used to be the traditional type atheist, quietly disbelieving but not saying much about the topic. From 1993 to 2001 world events gradually shifted my views.

Political Party -- none.

Church + State view -- Religion is a private matter and should be left as such. HOWEVER, I would make practical concessions. Christmas should be a national holiday in my opinion, in a concession to practical reality. The second holiest and most celebrated holiday of the year for.. a huge amount of people in the country.. needs to a national holiday. And can be in a secular sense. I celebrate Christmas big time every year..but not in a religious sense.

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On our coins, our national monuments, our public buildings and properties, in the oath of public office, Pledge of Allegiance, National Anthem, the Declaration of friggin' Independence, our National Day of Prayer...are you really going to try to pretend that America's foundation doesn't bear the distinct tang of acknowledging a supreme being?

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"God" was not on the coinage, IIRC, unitl the mid 1800's. The oath of office, at least for the President, as proposed in the Constitution, does not reference any god, Christian or otherwise. The Pledge of Allegiance was written in the late 1800's, "under God" was added in the 1950's.

National monuments are works of art, not necessarily indicative of government or even public opinion.

You are mistaking customs, in the case of the National Day of Prayer, with law. Please show me, article, clause, and paragraph where god, any god, is actually mentioned in the Constitution. Please do.

Article Six explicitly states that no religious qualifier shall be applied to any office under the Constitution.

Please get a real education.

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Fox News and worldnet daily don't offer real education, silly goose!

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Are you even trying? Please don't try and spread your fake history from the pulpit as fact that our nation was founded on your religion. The vast majority of your points came long after the Constitution was written and after our founding fathers were dead. Christians have been fighting since the dawn of our Constitution's ratification to include God in it, and put God into government. In fact Christian were pissed when the Constitution was ratified because it didn't include even 1 mention of God or Jesus and his dominance over us. There have been Amendments proposed to change the Preamble of the Constitution so that it includes God multiple times.

In God We Trust didn't show up on money till long after the Founding Fathers were dead. The first coin to use it was in I believe 1870 something, and didn't show up on all money will 1954 I believe. In God we Trust didn't become the countries official motto until the 50s either, until then it was e pluribus unum.

Same with many of those public buildings, George Washington didn't even live in the White House. Plus, I am not really sure what our national building are supposed to prove anyways. They aren't government documents. Just because somebody build a building and added religious flavoring to it doesn't make our government religious in nature.

The Oath of Office for the President to this day does not officially include "so help me God" and it is not required by law to say. It is only a personal preference to the person taking the Oath to say. Not all Presidents have even uttered it. "so help me God" was only added for offices besides the President in 1789 as part of a law outside of the Constitution. Swearing on Bibles is also a personal preference not all Presidents or other politicians take oath on a bible. Theodore Roosevelt didn't, John Quincy Adams swore on a law book.

The Pledge of Allegiance wasn't written until 1892 and wasn't adopted until 1942. It also did not contain "Under God" until 1953.

The National Anthem was a poem written during the War of 1812. It was written in 1814 to be specific. It never even mentions God. Are you talking about America the Beautiful or my Country Tis of Thee? Both of them were written after The Star Spangled Banner.

The Declaration of Independence only mentions a Creator, which could mean aliens or any god including Odin. It has nothing to do with the formation of our Government, and is NOT a legal document. It has no legal standing. It was also written by the 3 least Religious members of our Founding Fathers. Both Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin you can easily find quotes from them denying the divinity of Christ.

National Day of Prayer was considered Unconstitutional by the man who wrote the 1st Amendment, James Madison. Although some Christians are trying to rewrite history and say it was Fisher Ames. Admittedly though under pressure Madison did designate days and had this to say about it.



Basically your hole point is that since your religion has been forcing it's way into Government since the nations founding with success that means it's okay and you can make false claims based what you want to believe is true and not what the actual truth is.

You have all misread my statements and I'm pretty sure you're doing so intentionally. The government is free from reliance on religion. It does, however, have a strong heritage of acknowledgement of it. There's a difference. I never claimed the former. I did claim the latter.

While we're at it, you're also admitting that the acknowledgements of religion are actually MORE RECENT than the Constitution, that our country has maintained its acknowledgement of the supernatural for almost two hundred years of its history. Pretty strong statement regarding what this country thinks of religion.

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Wait, so the progressive take on things is that the evolution of society has rendered the Constitution outdated and archaic and we should move on from there, but the evolution of God into our coinage, Pledge of Allegiance, etc., is bunk and we should get back to the way things are originally?

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Over-simplification alert!

Seriously though, I think the difference is that these people you talk about don't believe in God/religion so why would they want it integrated into our government?

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I understand that, and yes, it's an over-simplification. But there are some pretty solid elements of truth there.

For the record, I don't want religion as a part of government either. The founding fathers got that one right. Too bad they didn't include a bit about the separation of money and state.

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Separating money and the state wouldn't happen when all the founding fathers were of the merchant class

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"In God We Trust" wasn't added to American currency until almost a century after the country's founding (1863). It wasn't added to paper money until 1957.

"Under God" wasn't added to the Pledge of Allegiance until 60+ years after it was written (written in 1892, amended with the phrase in 1954).

The National Day of Prayer wasn't actually made a real thing until 1952.

All certainly things with decades of history, but pretty far from our nation's foundation.

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EDIT: And now I see that Razor already addressed this. That's what I get for not reading the entire thread first.

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Okay, so maybe that pass rush is still an issue. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I'd say it's a strong statement about how shit worked in the 1950s, at the very least.

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Okay, so maybe that pass rush is still an issue. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Progress is good. Except when it's the other guys' progress. Noted.

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340,000 year old man discovered with matching DNA. is this enough to disprove christianity?

From a legal/executive/technical sense, perhaps.

But don't you think that sweeping statements like "In God We Trust" and "One nation under God" are pretty profound statements? And again, regardless of when it happened, the fact that the decision was made to place it on our coins, which are everywhere, and in our Pledge of Allegiance, which is spoken everywhere daily...those weren't exactly quiet, unobtrusive move.

And again, since everyone glossed it over, the Declaration of Independence speaks of a "Creator", a "Supreme Judge of the world", and "a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence". No, it's not law, but it's an all-too-convenient stretch to say it's not part of our foundation as a country.

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