I'm not familiar with Military law, I only really know that nothing that has to do with Bradley Mannings incarceration and "trial" feels right in any way. He's been held for over a thousand days without being charged, and the trial is set to start in June. I think this guy did the right thing by releasing these documents to wikileaks, showing terrible crimes committed by the US in Iraq and Guantanamo Bay. Doing the right thing is illegal most of the time.



The judge rules that the length of time Manning has been held is reasonable:



Now, the prosecution will be taking the personal testimony of a man who's name won't be released, and he won't be going to court to face the man he's accusing. I understand the need for secrecy, but once again this just doesn't feel right to me.



I'm a little curious what others think. Would you do what Manning did if you had the chance? Do you agree with it? Do you think his right to a speedy trial has been violated? Heres another quote from the first article. Cruel and unusual punishment anyone?

Mother treats us well. Anyone that goes against Mother only has their self to blame.

He is a soldier, property of the US Government as he volunteer for and signed himself over to. Thus, he is subject to military law and procedures, which are nothing like what civilians have the right to.

I think it comes down to this: he volunteered to be a soldier, he knew what was allowed and not allowed for soldiers to do, and he chose to break the rules anyways.

I don't see how he has any legitimate defense whatsoever.

Whether there were "crimes" or not, I don't know, war is not the same as civilian life, but he did not "cherry" pick what he thought were crimes, he took tons of classified military documents and turned them over to a foreign national. I should add, if he wanted to expose crimes, the military has a chain of command and procedures for reporting crimes, he chose not to go that route. They have JAG for a reason.

He is fucked.

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"Are we rockin' and rollin' or what?!''

-- Seattle coach Pete Carroll, celebrating with his coaches after the Seahawks pulled off a trade with the Jets, netting running back Leon Washington on Saturday, via Seahawks.com

"Buddy" is only half a word.

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I blog, I tweet. When I'm not writing or goofing around on Seahawks.NET.

I keep on looking at your avatar Sailor and thinking it's Zombie Popeye.

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

I agree with the OP, this doesn't feel right to me. Why the fuck isn't he in line for a firing squad?

I agree with some of what you say. He is definitely fucked. I do think he should be charged, but the way he is being treated is worse than the murderers, rapists, and child molesters in our justice system. At least allow the man a little fucking dignity, maybe a semi speedy trial and hey, maybe let him sleep with his clothes on. The Bill of Rights are merely a list of rights a man is born with, so I don't understand how those can be taken away when you enter the military.

Also he took that mass of classified military documents from... the military. Who in the hell would he report them too? His superior officer who would report them to his and then they get told to get the fuck out of his office and stop bringing in files that he played a part in?

SIIN, it may be hard to fathom, but once you join the military you agree to the loss of certain things. You also agree to obey the lawful orders of your Superiors and Commander in Chief. One of those lawful orders is to not share or disseminate classified information just because you don't agree with it. If he saw something that was being done improperly, then yes, he should have used the chain of command first and if that did not work then file a formal IG complaint. Or, he could have just filed the IG complaint first if he felt that the chain of command would not listen. He had options, he chose to go the traitor route instead. Fuck him.

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2013 AAR: Chris Harper

Well really, sometimes it's better to hang fellow Americans out to dry and endanger their lives for your own cause. Sometimes you just have to be the bigger man and break that contract you signed, shatter that oath you took to protect classified information and send it to the guys you're fighting because they need it more, or something. And as someone who was promoted to the lofty rank of PFC in the Army, Manning was obviously privy to so much information, so much of a big picture, he understood the scope and value of this information and why it would be better given to terrorists than kept secure in U.S. hands. I mean, he only endangered military personnel, which when you get right down to it, is only about one percent of the American population. And they're only responsible for national security, not important stuff like the economy and welfare issues. What's the pathetic lives of a few of your buddies when ideology is on the line?

Yes, I use sarcasm when saying what I really feel would be inappropriate even for the shack.

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I blog, I tweet. When I'm not writing or goofing around on Seahawks.NET.

The Iraq War was a crock of shit. The amount of innocent Iraqi lives taken far outweighs the number of innocent American lives that were lost on 9-11. Americans value their own lives more than that of foreigners, though, so it doesn't matter. Bradley Manning committed treason by airing the atrocities the US military was committing. It ended a politically motivated war and saved countless lives, both American and foreign. By law he is the biggest traitor to our nation of this generation and is being treated accordingly. Does the end justify the means? I probably think so.

Yes he did endanger the lives of Americans for his own cause, but I agree with his cause more than I do with the last several wars the United States has been in. That isn't to say that I don't "support the troops" but that I disagree with the very foundation of the war in Afghanistan, both Iraq wars, and Vietnam (as well as the majority of excursions that have taken place in that time)

Yup you just have to break that contract you signed, except he didn't send it to the guys they were fighting, but provided it to the people they were protecting (as well as anyone else who wanted to see it unfortunately). So they could see how and why their sons and daughters were fighting. Also didn't he make an oath to the constitution? He saw that Iraqi's unalienable rights were being violated, so he did a very stupid thing and released internal documents knowing the risks he was taking. I'm sorry, but I don't believe that an Americans life is worth more than anyone else' life (at least peaceable non-combatants). The most famous words in the constitution "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness...."

ALL MEN, not American men, not Jewish men, not republican men, or anything else, all of them. They have those rights, and if someone attacks those rights they should be defended with overwhelming force. However, that doesn't mean attacking the people around them just because they look like the dude who attacked your friend. If this kind of thing is just swept under the rug, then who will stop them? No one, and its not only the Iraqi's who will pay the price, but the soldiers who will carry around a feeling of guilt, or ptsd for the things they've done in war. I have family who were in the vietnam war, and they still carry around a heavy burden that you can see in their eyes.

I don't agree with how Manning released this information, or the sheer amount that he released. I just don't think that this issue is as cut and dry and you guys are seeing it, so I'm trying to be a voice of opposition to maybe make you think that this isn't so simple as "load up the firing squad."

I wasn't ever in the military, so I won't pretend to understand what any of you went through, or the bonds you've formed. I just don't think of supporting the troops as buying them a beer or shaking their hand and saying thank you. I try and support them by treating them like everyone else, except maybe I will sit down and talk with them easier than I would a normal stranger. That includes challenging them on things I don't agree with them on.

Sailor if you want to send me a few choice words through PM that would be fine, I have thick enough skin. I'd like to hear your opinion without the sarcasm that you always seem to use when your talking about something your passionate about.

I think that everyone can agree that what was going on over there was wrong. But to use the wrong channels to expose it was even more wrong. I would be on that guys side if he did it correctly, but he didn't, end of story. I think that in, at least in my eyes, it is that cut and dry. You know the rules when you are in the military (they give you more than enough training in these types of things) and to not follow them is idiotic. I have no sympathy for him simply because of this fact. If he uses ignorance as a defense then he is full of shit. If he whines about his treatment, fuck him. If he were to get beaten daily for what he did then I wouldn't be too upset.

This may seem harsh to those that have not served, but you only have the guy next to you watching your back. Even if you, or they, aren't on the front lines, it takes the whole organization to make things work logistically. Any breakdown on this process means a cluster-fuck in the field, which in turn means people are at risk. And if you knowingly put them at risk, those brothers and sisters you looked in the eye and wished a safe return, then you get fuck all for rights IMO. It's a whole different ballgame for the military. I always told my guys if you weren't willing to fly on that jet you just fixed, you had better do it again because 30+ lives are at stake every time wheels leave the ground. You have to have that type of mentality every single day. The moment you don't is when people die, and it is on you.

TL;DR version, do the right thing and the people who were in the wrong will get punished. Don't do the right thing and be a traitor, then pay the price, no matter what that may be.

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2013 AAR: Chris Harper

I don't need to PM you. Anything I say I don't mind sharing with the forum here. You've already acknowledged the point that he endangered the lives of who knows how many of his fellow Americans, that he broke his contract and vows. He made the commitment to uphold the constitution of the United States of America, not of Iraq, or of the world, or anywhere else. And it doesn't matter who he gave the material to. Once it's public, it's in everyone's hands, terrorists and peace lovers alike. There is no distinction between ownership of information once it is made public.

If you had a problem with the way someone in the Seahawks organization was doing business, would you give their playbook, signals, or draft strategies and intentions away to the rest of the league? If you had a problem with the ethics of a few cops in a police department, would you broadcast the schedules, tactics, methods, or resources of your state's law enforcement to the public? Now magnify that a million times, where instead of years of team success, or even crime fighting and safety of law enforcement personnel being compromised, you have years of national strategy and tactics being compromised, which directly affects lives, livelihoods, families, and even has an impact on larger scale things like the economy and government spending. Yes, it'll cost a lot more money to repair the damage done and to redo/change our strategies and tactics in the future. Hell, his move probably cost far more than the $85 billion our government is panicking over right now. And that's just the monetary cost. Of course, Manning, in his ultimate wisdom didn't think of that.

The perception that our Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines are engaging in all kinds of horrible behavior and atrocities to others is so horribly wrong I don't know where to even begin. Yes, there are bad eggs everywhere. If you look for them, you will find individuals who are not very good people, no matter their profession. To blankly stereotype any of the services with that kind of behavior, when the vast majority of the individuals serving are doing so honorably and because they hold the ideals of the Constitution to heart, is beyond comprehension. To willfully put your fellow compatriots' lives at risk, and jeopardize any amount of cost - life, limb, monetary, or otherwise - to your country is despicable.

Bear in mind that as a PFC in the Army, this shithead was about as privy to the big picture of everything as an assistant to a ball boy in football. He had a gnat's-ass view of what's going on, and chose to fuck over his buddies, his country, and everything they stood for because of his own petty and twisted sense of right and wrong. Imagine the scandal that would break if a guy asked to be traded to an NFL team and then purposely did things to sabotage that team for the advantage of another. That's just sports. A fucking game. I can't even begin to make an analogy that fits. It's bad enough that folks are out there on a razor-thin line between success and death, but to do that and think "holy shit, they know what we're going to do and where we're going to be" is far, far worse. And to know one of the guys you trusted your life with was the cause of that?

And don't give me the sanctimonious bullshit about how we were Ramboing down innocents and creating daisy-chain necklaces out of the ears of poor civilians. Don't give me that "we're just a bunch of mass murderers" tripe, because not only is it not true, it spits in the face of every one of the men and women who have volunteered to honorably serve this country in the military.

That's the clean version of my thoughts on the matter, and all I really have to say about it.

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I blog, I tweet. When I'm not writing or goofing around on Seahawks.NET.

The Seahawks analogy is a pretty poor one when you consider that there aren't innocent lives at stake but I think I get your point. I wouldn't release their playbook strategies or signals away, but I would definitely release their infractions to the media. Like I said, Manning went about it stupidly, and released waaay too much impertinent information. I'm pretty sure he was 19 years old at the time, so frankly he was a stupid kid who didn't understand the full weight of everything he was releasing. However, there was absolutely information that needed to be released.

I don't think that our airmen, sailors, marines, and soldiers are committing untold atrocities every day or anything, I just think that it happens a lot more often than is reported, and in many cases these things are ordered from higher up. I have a bigger problem with sanctioned torture, and drone strikes on a group of civilians to get one possible terrorist and the like. Most of the bad eggs will get found out in our military, but when those bad eggs are higher up in the command chain they can do a lot more damage than the troops on the ground. That's why I really think there needs to be more transparency with the military. If the media was doing their job then Manning wouldn't have needed to release any of this information.

Well I don't want to spit in anyone's face, but why did we go to war with Iraq, or Afghanistan? Just a bunch of mass-murderers Ramboing down innocent civilians. I'm sorry Sailor, but just because we are Americans doesn't mean we can call mass-murder a "military operation". I can link you to dozens of stories of drone strikes that were "mass murdering" many civilians in other countries. I'm speaking in generalities because its easier to get my point across, but I'm not saying that every (or even 1%) of our military operations could qualify as "mass murder", but some of them do. When things like that happen, they need to be reported on and people need to be held accountable.

Just because I am pointing these things out doesn't mean I'm spitting in the troops face because of something they can't control. The military is a HUGE thing, containing millions of people in various agencies, and its almost like I can't criticize a single part of it or a handful of people in it without others thinking that I'm calling everyone in the military a mass murdering psychopath. I don't think that, and every former military person I've met has been very humble and a good person. That doesn't mean that there aren't people in our military that condone murder or torture. Just like it doesn't mean that just because Bob the Muslim isn't a terrorist, no Muslims are terrorists.

Collateral damage is not mass-murder, it's a normal side effect of war and has been since the first war was fought with sticks and stones.

It's sad, yes, but it's a normal part of war and quite frankly, if any other nation in the world had conducted this war, FAR FAR FAR more innocent lives would have been lost. Our military is the most professional in the world, and commits the least amount of mistakes and 'atrocities'.

Send any other military in there and see what happens to the locals.

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"Are we rockin' and rollin' or what?!''

-- Seattle coach Pete Carroll, celebrating with his coaches after the Seahawks pulled off a trade with the Jets, netting running back Leon Washington on Saturday, via Seahawks.com

We did not need to be there in the first place. Manning created treason and is getting his comeuppance. Again, he betrayed his country and countrymen, but ultimately ended an unjust war. He's not a martyr, but throwing Manning to the wolves to end a war is a trade I would make everyday.